Long-time lurker wondering whether to homeschool a reluctant 7th grader to avoid bad public schools

[IrisNightshade]

I've read this board with interest for several year and gotten many useful ideas for enriching my children's public school education, as well as doing some beginning academics with my youngest, DD4 (at her request). I'm posting now to ask for advice from btdt homeschooling parents regarding whether or not to homeschool my 12 year old daughter for the next two school years if we end up needing to move to a bad school district due to my wife's job.

 

DD12 has attended our local good but not fabulous public schools since kindergarten and is currently in 6th grade, the first year of middle school here. We fairly recently found out that effective next spring my wife's job will ask her to relocate for two years to fill a temporary position.  The area we will likely be moving to has uniformly bad public schools according to the information I have been able to find online and we don't have the budget to put two kids in any of the nearby private schools. We will almost certainly be able to return to our current area, probably the same district we are in now, at the conclusion of those two years.

 

We're working on finding a way to get out of this move, but in case that doesn't work we need to figure out what we will be doing about the kids' school situation.

 

I'm sure I can successfully homeschool kindergarten and 1st grade for DD4 because she enjoys "preschool" with me now, has no experience to contrast it to, and is a fairly easy child in general. The problem is that DD12 is adamantly opposed to the idea of being homeschooled. While we are handling the disrespectful way she has expressed this, knowing her personality I am not sure that she will change her mind or her attitude even if she changes her current rude surly behavior and blatant threats to "refuse to cooperate" with homeschooling next year. She is incredibly strong-willed, and I'm not sure how successfully I could "make" her do school activities that she actively chooses to resist. Or, frankly, whether it would be worth the constant conflict and tension it would bring into the household.

 

TL;DR: Would you homeschool a 7th and 8th grader who specifically does not want to be homeschooled and likely intends to be difficult about it, if the only viable alternative was having her attend a mediocre public school for two years?

 

Sorry about the novel, and thanks for your input!

[ktgrok]

Could you do private school just for her, and homeschool the younger? Is there an active homeschool community in that area? If so, I'd take her to some events to meet the kids, and see if that sways her at all. 

[Mabelen]

Do you know why she opposes homeschooling so adamantly? Is she afraid of loneliness? Is she generally a good student and does she enjoy learning? Does she care about academic ranking or standing among her peers? How you approach her would depend on what her reasons are. Does she feel that you are listening to her concerns?

[LucyStoner]

I would try to pin down what her concerns are. Just let her talk, without arguing with her perceptions.

 

What sort of homeschooling community is available where you are moving? I'd look to see if any of her concerns could be addressed by local resources. Co-ops, classes, activities etc. conversely, you should research/visit and see if any of the schools address your concerns about sending her there.

 

Unless the schools were dangerous or there was a complicating factor, I would honestly let her have quite a bit of influence on this decision.

[bolt.]

I would actively try to get closer to her perspective about the idea of homeschooling, while trying to get her closer to your ideas -- before making any decisions.

 

I'd try to tell her things (whatever your perspective is) in a simplified way that focuses on student experience: like, maybe, "Schools get bad ratings because sometimes teachers aren't able to teach well, which means it's really hard for their students to learn the things they need to. Students at bad rated schools are usually stuck working harder than other kids just to learn the same things. They often have lots of homework, and they might not understand it. If that happens to you, I would be helping you, of course -- but it just sounds harder than it needs to be. I could just teach you in the first place, during the day, and you won't have any homework, and you won't have to deal with confusing teachers. It sounds like a good idea to me." ... "When we are done our daily book work we can do fun things like science experiments, studying your favourite novels, going to real plays, making big art projects, and visiting museums, etc. Those are the kinds of things that don't happen much at schools with bad ratings either. I don't want you to miss the fun parts of middle school just because of the schools in the new area having problems."

 

Then tell her that you are having an easy time imagining the good parts of homeschooling, but you aren't sure what the things are that she thinks won't be very good. Would she please explain (nicely) what she thinks might go wrong. Nod, smile, take notes, and reflect her thinking in your words as you listen -- don't be tempted to disagree while she is explaining her concerns. (If you can address her concerns, tell her in a future conversation.)

 

Honestly, she's probably having an overflow reaction to the idea of moving-at-all, so it's colouring her ideas around homeschooling as part of that scenario.

 

In the end, I'd probably talk her around and then do it. Or at least talk her into trying it, then give her a great experience as a basis for continuing.

Edited October 6, 2016 by bolt.

[Seasider]

If you do choose to home school, keep in mind that at that age, tweens are navigating the "where do I fit in" stage of social development. Finding a co-op class that meets once or twice a week, or getting her into a regular extracurricular activity, can make the difference between happy & engaged and sullen & resentful.

[catz]

I do think starting about age 12/13, it probably is good to have some sort of level of buy in from your child for homeschooling.  I know not everyone feels that way, but I do.  If you were going to do it, I would talk to her about what she doesn't like about the idea.  What might make it more appealing? 

 

Another option you could consider is online public charter, if you are super nervous about the academics. 

 

I am homeschooling a 12 year old/7th grader this year.  She did turn 12 over the summer so she's on the younger end.  I will say SHE needs a lot of social.  She takes violin and does groups and orchestra with that.  She goes to a co-op.  She dances 5 days a week.  She does other stuff all the time too.  She's out of the house every day.  I actually find the academics not too bad when planned well ahead.  I schedule most of her work independently now and she seems to prefer that.

[Guest]

I personally would not "make" a child that age homeschool no matter their personality. *I* don't want my life to be misery trying to "make" one do school who has already refused to cooperate; the need to save face will now compel her to stick with belligerence.

 

I'm sorry. That would be tricky.

[Guest]

In a similar situation, I told the kid the price was afterschooling and he had to steer clear of the drug dealers. The eighth grade year featured a knife fight in the high school and police talks with the 8th graders. The district ended up hiring security and using alternative school for the violent children. In the end, he was well prepared to not follow the antiacademic crowd, and very angry at the bigotry of low expectations. In your situation, I would be asking the company to cover private school, or be finding a new job.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[regentrude]

I cannot imagine homeschooling a teen against her will, especially if you are already anticipating that there will be resistance.

Since the job assignment is only temporary: would it be an option to do a long distance relationship for the two years and keep the kid in the current school at the current location?

 

ETA: I think it is very difficult for a young teen to be pulled from her surroundings, made to move to an unfamiliar environment, AND kept at home. She is likely worrying how she will find friends, and I consider this a very real and legitimate concern.

Edited October 7, 2016 by regentrude

[IrisNightshade]

OP here with an update. First of all, thanks everyone for your thoughts; all of the replies so far have given me a lot of helpful perspectives and advice to think about.

 

Last night was a bit of a hot mess at our house, because DD found out about the move before we intended for her to, and neither of us parents handled the ensuing discussion as well as we would have wanted or in the way we intended. DD’s emotions were running very high and there was a great deal of drama. Today we managed to have a much calmer, more productive discussion (thanks in part to the advice I got on this thread; bolt, I used your incredibly helpful, thoughtful post as a starting point to guide the way I handled the discussion).

 

Having heard DD’s thoughts in more detail than just her screaming things like “never!†or telling us we're ruining her life, and considering the input of most here on this thread that there needs to be some buy-in from a student her age, we now very much doubt that homeschooling is going to be the best choice for her. It’s still one possibility, but we’re also putting a lot more effort into coming up with other viable options including just having her attend the local public. Additionally, despite really being opposed to the idea right now, we are at least talking about whether splitting the family for two years is a possibility. Finding a new job is not really an option at the moment, but my wife is preparing for a discussion with her management to see if this move is truly mandatory for her at this point. Best case scenario would be that this entire problem goes away, but we are going to try to make a plan for if that doesn’t work out.

 

ktgrok, RE your suggestion about putting just DD12 in private school: Thank you! I can’t believe it somehow didn’t occur to me that we could choose different options for each kid; this is an excellent idea and one we are strongly considering if we can come up with several schools that would work for our needs including our budget. We ran budget numbers last night, and it would be tight but potentially doable to pay only one tuition for two years. I’m researching possible schools now and we’ll redo the numbers with a better idea of what costs we might be facing.

 

For those who wisely said I needed to understand DD’s specific objections and try to address them: thank you for pointing me in a more productive direction; I completely agree and I’m not sure why I jumped straight to assuming I could, should, or would force it without trying to build consensus. That’s not the way we try to parent at all, since we really do believe in trying to work together to find collaborative mutually-agreeable solutions. I can only blame stress and say that I was rather frazzled last night.

 

DD has a few main objections, and I’m not sure how doable it would be to address them and still have a reasonable plan for homeschool. Apologies in advance if any of this causes offense, because that certainly is not my intent. These are the opinions of an upset 12 year old who isn’t a particular fan of the idea of moving or changing schooling methods, somewhat filtered by me to be at least slightly less rude.

 

1.       She wants what she considers a typical educational path and does not want to deviate from the norm. Apparently she regards the idea of being homeschooled as somewhat ‘weird’, despite being casual acquaintances with at least two homeschooled peers with whom she gets along fairly well, and she’s worried she would be judged for it if/when she returns to public school for high school.

 

I don’t think this is nearly as likely as she seems to believe it is, because homeschooling is becoming a lot more common and less stigmatized. Furthermore, I don’t find value in conformity simply for the sake of conformity, and I’m a bit concerned that this was her first thought rather than something substantial about the actual content, quality, or style of her education.

 

She also seems to think it would “mess up†her ability to transition back to public high school and get the classes she wants/needs, although I’m fairly sure I can provide her enough compelling evidence to address this concern since it seems to be a concern mostly due to ignorance about homeschooling as a viable option.

 

2.       She wants to have more independence and not have me so involved in her day-to-day education. (That’s my polite rephrasing of her second objection, which was not stated in this reasonable a way at all).

 

Okay, this one I have to admit stung a lot and makes me question both our relationship and our choices thus far as parents – perhaps we needed to be more involved from the start. DD has been a straight-A student since she started getting letter grades in 3^rd grade, and hasn’t needed more than occasional parental help with homework or a project since around the middle of 2^nd grade. We have been fairly hands-off regarding her academics except for asking most nights at dinner about what she was learning, something she found interesting from school, etc., and monitoring grades every few weeks. I am a little surprised she was so adamant about not wanting my involvement in her academics, since I have been teaching her both piano and Spanish for years now with no problems or objections from her. Our kid seems to want me out of her life --- what??? This was news to us, and not news of the pleasant variety.

 

I’m not entirely sure how to homeschool yet not be the primary person responsible for overseeing her education and knowing the details thereof, nor, frankly, am I sure it’s a desire I should be striving to meet at all. I think it may be time to seriously focus on our relationship with DD, because I don’t remember her older sisters (DD21, college student away at school, and DD24, recent college grad living halfway across the country) being so eager to push us out of their lives… slightly concerning.

 

3.       She doesn’t want to be isolated from group learning or social opportunities – okay, this one I can handle fairly well with co-op classes and such, most likely. That won’t be quite the same as being surrounded by 30+ kids or more all day every day, but we can certainly make sure she has social opportunities.

 

 

I suspect she has additional opinions that she for some reason isn’t sharing, but that’s what we got from her so far. On that basis, I’m not convinced homeschool is a good idea. I also think we might have bigger issues going on here. I thought we had this whole raising teens thing down, but now I’m thinking we just had easy older kids.

[ktgrok]

She sounds very normal or her age. And in fact, being "normal" and "conforming" are a HUGE desire at that age, more than anything else. It just is. Is there a public virtual school in your state/area? That would mean she was taking classes in the same order as public schooled peers, she would be independent from you (also a valid feeling at that age,and typical) and there wouldn't be a problem transitioning to public high school. Which just leaves the issue of socialization. 

 

I'd try to find a homeschool group in that area, and take her to an event/parkday/whatever there to mingle and just see what it is like. And look into virtual school. Then go from there. 

[bolt.]

I'm glad you had a good conversation, and I'm really confident that this is probably going to be just fine. Your kids are in good hands!

 

I think you might be misinterpreting point #2, about her 'wanting you out of her life' -- and it's likely that you wouldn't normally take it personally, but you are facing (like everyone else in your family) an unwanted move and all the chaos that implies. So, cut yourself plenty of slack ok? The way I'm interpreting her concerns is around the idea that she very much respects you, and very VERY much depends on her perception that you approve of her -- as the bedrock of her self-respect. This (ironically) forms a motive that most kids have: to keep their parents at a bit of an arm's length.

 

How does that work? I think she's maybe worried that if you knew "everything" about her, she would be concerned about your approval levels.

 

For example, maybe she wants you to think she is smart (I bet she is!) so she wants to you to observe her mostly when she has already learned things, not while she is struggling and feeling not-so-smart. Or there are just some things a girl doesn't want her mom and dad to know. Maybe she's writing poetry and putting a bit more of herself on the page than she wants 'people who actually know her' to know about her. Or maybe she once read a novel with (gasp) sex in it, and she's not sure, but she pretty sure doesn't want to chat with you about the literary analysis! Maybe she's doing some social experiments, trying on the look-and-feel of different groups of peers, or even thinking about values and religion in a peer context. Maybe she's got the loudest belch in her classroom, and her peers are impressed, but she imagines you wouldn't be.

 

All of these things are innocent -- but they are the kinds of things nobody that age really wants their parents all over and fully informed about. It's an uncomfortable level of closeness.

 

It seems to me that she's probably just becoming a bit more independent and a bit more private (as kids this age should be) and she'd be embarrassed if you knew every last detail about her school life and persona. She doesn't know how that process works if there isn't an actual school for her to shuffle off to and find some space for that sort of thing.

 

So, I don't think she wants you to get lost. It's pretty normal that she wants some space to feel like she is out of supervision range and free to think, write, say, and do the sorts of things you don't do at the family dinner table. It's probably not as bad as it sounded when she said it.

Edited October 7, 2016 by bolt.

[Tanaqui]

She sounds like a normal adolescent. It doesn't indicate anything bad about your parenting or your relationship with your kid. I wouldn't worry about that stuff at all.