DD is not applying to the only state flagship that I *know* we can swing...

[Ann.without.an.e]

She just hates it so much.  She's been on campus a good bit for nights at a time because she is VP for a state-wide literary magazine board that meets there and she just really, really, really doesn't want to go.  She is a super strong/high stats student.  So I keep telling myself that this is going.to.be.ok.  While I like the idea of having one financial safety that she is 99% likely to get into because we are in state, this is going to be ok, right?  The other schools on her list that are great financially are schools like Emory, Rice, etc. where admittance is not a guarantee.  Surely she'll get into one of them though, right? :confused1:   I am just looking for someone to comfort me really.  Just foolishly tell me that this will not be a decision she regrets. :crying:

She is skipping it because she hates these particular essays and she wants to hone in and do better on the schools she cares about.  Just to answer that question.

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Attolia

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

My kid goes to one of my state's cheapest schools. He had high stats but this college offers very few significant scholarships, so we pay sticker price.

 

My best friend's son attends a private school for about the same due to significant scholarships based on his academic standing. This school has a very high acceptance rate and also a low graduation rate. They have alot of money (strong alumni giving?)and were generous with my friend's B-student. So, don't discount looking at private schools--you may be surprised by the bottom line price.

 

The son of another friend is attending an out-of-state state school for less that any of our state school. It is a school that also has a high acceptance rate due to guaranteed admission for instance students with a certain gpa) and a lower graduation rate. This school offered this student full-tuition Scholarship because of his high gpa. No school in his home state gave him any money. I would have loved to have my kid do the same, but I wasn't aware of this strategy.

 

YMMV,

 

K

[Lori D.]

As long as DD has a back-up plan of a school that is a safety both for admission AND financials, no reason why she has to apply to a school she hates.

 

So, go ahead and skip the flagship, but *absolutely* ADD one school that DD would not mind attending that will be a shoo-in for her admission-wise and financially. Because, yes, you both WILL regret not having taken the time and effort for just one extra admission essay and application if all of the selective / competitive schools fall through -- virtually everyone who is applying to Emory and Rice and similar schools is going to be just as impressive academically and extracurricular-wise as your DD and just as attractive to the admission boards, so there are NO guarantees.

 

Just the low odds of getting in should be a very motivating reason for finding a back-up plan school:

 

Emory

- 23% acceptance rate -- so 77 out of every 100 applicants do NOT get accepted

- only 6-7 students out of that same 23 of every 100 freshmen admitted actually end up enrolled

- 69% of incoming freshman have an ACT score of 30-36 (with 36 being a perfect ACT score)

- 29-33 = *average* ACT score (so for merit aid, a student needs a score of 34-36 to stand out)

 

Rice

- 16% acceptance rate -- so 84 out of every 100 applicants do NOT get accepted

- only 5 students out of that same 16 of every 100 freshmen admitted actually end up enrolled

- 90% of incoming freshman have an ACT score of 30-36 (with 36 being a perfect ACT score)

- (no figures available for the *average* ACT score)

 

 

Since DD has such strong stats, look for a smaller school with a strong program in the area she is interested in, and where DD's stats put her in the top 5% of incoming freshmen -- schools really like to snap up those students and give them sizable merit aid, because students like your DD really boost the school's stats. ;)

 

BEST of luck in the college search and application process! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Lori D.

[bettyandbob]

What happens when she gets in and doesn't get enough merit aid. Have you discussed the amount of merit aid she needs for each school in order for your family to actually consider an acceptance?

[Crimson Wife]

If it were my kid, I'd tell her fine but that she better also be applying to "gap year" programs like AmeriCorps in case she winds up next spring without any admission to a financially feasible school.

[JanetC]

The flagship is probably not your only option. Are there any other state campuses you could check out? Or, if you are part of a regional tuition compact, you could look at your regional state options.

 

The college confidential automatic full tuition list is another place to hunt for a financial safety school.

 

http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/

 

Or the "My kid's college choice" list of full-tuition and full-ride scholarships. (She charges for her list.)

 

http://www.mykidscollegechoice.com/full-scholarship-list/

[katilac]

She needs, needs, needs a financial AND admissions safety. Preferably two of them. 

 

It does not have to be the state flagship. If she has the stats to be considered at Rice and Emory, there are also less competitive schools that will offer her merit aid. The Alabama schools are known for good aid. Both UA (large) and UAH (mid-sized) have guaranteed merit aid based on test scores and GPA, so you go in knowing the maximum you will be paying. They currently rank at 103 and 197 respectively, and are both good schools with honors colleges and lots of opportunities. And merit aid. 

 

I mention them specifically because she seems to be looking in the south, and we looked closely at both of them. 

 

Emory's admit rate is less than 24%. Rice's admit rate is 14%. No, she will not "surely" get into one of them. Applying to several low admit schools does not increase your chances overall, kwim? That doesn't mean don't apply, it just means have a true safety school. Not one you hate. Your peace of mind is well worth the $30 or so for the application fee. 

 

Sorry, I suck at comforting. I'm much better at brutal reality.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

She just hates it so much.  She's been on campus a good bit for nights at a time because she is VP for a state-wide literary magazine board that meets there and she just really, really, really doesn't want to go.  She is a super strong/high stats student.  So I keep telling myself that this is going.to.be.ok.  While I like the idea of having one financial safety that she is 99% likely to get into because we are in state, this is going to be ok, right?  The other schools on her list are great financially but they are schools like Emory, Rice, etc. where admittance is not a guarantee.  Surely she'll get into one of them though, right? :confused1:   I am just looking for someone to comfort me really.  Just foolishly tell me that this will not be a decision she regrets. :crying:

She is skipping it because she hates the essays and she wants to hone in and do better on the schools she cares about.  Just to answer that question.

 

If she is a high score/high stat student, what is her plan B for if she doesn't gain admission to the more selective schools?  

 

DS is applying to some schools that I think he'd do really well at, but that have single digit admission rates.  He is also applying to other schools with 10-15% rates and some with 20-30% rates.  The last group includes a few where he is at the top of the schools' stats for admitted students and some that give large merit aid.

 

Applying to 10 schools with 10% admission rates does not mean you will get admitted or receive a financial aid package that you can afford.  If she really doesn't like the in state school, then she should have some solid plan B schools that she thinks are acceptable and that you think you can afford.

[Pen]

One or both of these:

 

 

As long as DD has a back-up plan of a school that is a safety both for admission AND financials, no reason why she has to apply to a school she hates.

 

So, go ahead and skip the flagship, but *absolutely* ADD one school that DD would not mind attending that will be a shoo-in for her admission-wise and financially. 

 

 

If it were my kid, I'd tell her fine but that she better also be applying to "gap year" programs like AmeriCorps in case she winds up next spring without any admission to a financially feasible school.

[8filltheheart]

The flagship is probably not your only option. Are there any other state campuses you could check out? Or, if you are part of a regional tuition compact, you could look at your regional state options.

 

The college confidential automatic full tuition list is another place to hunt for a financial safety school.

 

http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/

 

Or the "My kid's college choice" list of full-tuition and full-ride scholarships. (She charges for her list.)

 

http://www.mykidscollegechoice.com/full-scholarship-list/

Janet, how does that list compare to the yolasite lists for NMF and full tuition scholarships? It might be worth $8 to add another safety or 2.

 

Attolia, I would make sure she has at least 2-3 schools with higher admissions rates.

[Pen]

Or...a completely different alternative option that she would like to do if she does not get into any place where she applied.  Work, community college...

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Miami University (Ohio) has nice merit aid for high scores and grades.

[Pen]

or...I hate to tell you that she would get into a school necessarily in the Rice etc. type.  But how very strong are her stats, SATs etc?  If they are well over the average (say she's an upper 95th%ile type candidate) for all the places that she is applying to, then it becomes more likely that she will get into one of those places even if they only have 10% admit rates.

 

Also, is there anywhere she can apply at a later date? Focus on essays etc for her top choices now, and then add 1 or more safety afterwards?

[Heather in VA]

Yes to what all of these lovely ladies said. And if I were you, I'd be just as brutally honest with your daughter. Tell her flat out that no matter how amazing she is, when the admissions stats are like they are at these schools there is absolutely no guarantee she will get into any of them. It's not a slam on her. It's the cold, hard truth. 

 

Tell her she needs to choose somewhere else to apply that is she can be comfortable with that has a more reasonable acceptance rate and good financial aid. I couldn't tell from the post if you will be able to afford to send her to Rice or Emory etc if she gets in, but if you are hoping for merit aid at those schools, they are very selective amongst the very select kids who were accepted. 

 

So even if money isn't an issue, she needs to apply somewhere much more guaranteed to get in. And if money is an issue, then she needs several options where both acceptance and merit aid are in the comfortable range.

[Hoggirl]

Yes to what all of these lovely ladies said. And if I were you, I'd be just as brutally honest with your daughter. Tell her flat out that no matter how amazing she is, when the admissions stats are like they are at these schools there is absolutely no guarantee she will get into any of them. It's not a slam on her. It's the cold, hard truth.

 

Tell her she needs to choose somewhere else to apply that is she can be comfortable with that has a more reasonable acceptance rate and good financial aid. I couldn't tell from the post if you will be able to afford to send her to Rice or Emory etc if she gets in, but if you are hoping for merit aid at those schools, they are very selective amongst the very select kids who were accepted.

 

So even if money isn't an issue, she needs to apply somewhere much more guaranteed to get in. And if money is an issue, then she needs several options where both acceptance and merit aid are in the comfortable range.

This, this, a thousand times this!!

 

Every. Single. Year. There are tales of woe on college confidential of kids getting shut out. I am not saying this is going to happen to your daughter, but it's not worth the risk!!! I would have her apply to two safeties. Neither one has to be the state flagship. Another poster suggested Alabama - a GREAT choice b/c you can determine the minimum amount of $ she will receive from a grid, she can apply for more and could potentially get one (or more) competitive scholarships as 8's ds did.

 

If she flat out refuses, I would make d@mn clear to her what the consequences of that decision could be.

[teachermom2834]

A friend of mine with a super candidate dd from a highly competitive high school applied to about 12 schools. I think it was three Ivies and then several more with admit rates in the 20s%. She also applied to a couple state flagships.

 

Throughout the process she would say "surely she will get in somewhere". Not really. She ended up with only three admits and all very expensive.

 

Just anecdotely it seems like kids get into almost all their schools or get rejected at most/all. Very few stories I hear of a kid that just got one top school to bite.

 

Please consider a couple safeties! Ones she actually likes.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Seriously???  You all completely failed to just go with this and comfort me  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

I apologize if I left the wrong impression.  I wasn't saying that she is only applying to schools with such low admittance rates.  What I was trying to say was that the only schools we are sure she can afford are schools with low admission's rates.  It seems like there are schools where she will get in and schools we can afford and not many schools fall into both categories at once.  She is applying to four schools where she should get in without a problem.  I just can't guarantee them financially for her.  She is well above the stats for 3 of them so they anticipate she will get nice merit aid.  

Edited October 4, 2016 by Attolia

[Ann.without.an.e]

or...I hate to tell you that she would get into a school necessarily in the Rice etc. type.  But how very strong are her stats, SATs etc?  If they are well over the average (say she's an upper 95th%ile type candidate) for all the places that she is applying to, then it becomes more likely that she will get into one of those places even if they only have 10% admit rates.

 

Also, is there anywhere she can apply at a later date? Focus on essays etc for her top choices now, and then add 1 or more safety afterwards?

 

 

Her ACT is a 35 (2330 SAT)

4 points higher than Emory's average and 3 points higher than Rice's average but I know without a doubt that this is in no way a guarantee.  

She is a creative, strong writer so her essays are great.  Also, being first generation is a positive for the harder to get into schools.  She is an AP Scholar with Distinction because of the amount of AP's she has taken and her scores on them and she has won several writing and science awards.  I just know that all of this is no guarantee at these particular schools so dropping the one school that I feel will be a safety financially and for admissions is hard for me.  I am not a risk taker though.  All I can hope is that those other schools will end up with good aid in the end  :confused1:

Edited October 4, 2016 by Attolia

[Heather in VA]

Seriously???  You all completely failed to just go with this and comfort me  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

I apologize if I left the wrong impression.  I wasn't saying that she is only applying to schools with such low admittance rates.  What I was trying to say was that the only schools we are sure she can afford are schools with low admission's rates.  It seems like there are schools where she will get in and schools we can afford and not many schools fall into both categories at once.  She is applying to four schools where she should get in without a problem.  I just can't guarantee them financially for her.  She is well above the stats for 3 of them so they anticipate she will get nice merit aid.  

 

It's the bolded part I don't get. If I am reading this correctly you are saying that if she gets into Rice (or others like that) you will be able to afford if but if she gets into a more safety school you won't? How does that work? There will be little to no merit aid with these exclusive schools. But highly qualified students applying to state schools or other schools with more favorable admission rates are much more likely to get large merit aid packages and will have smaller initial price tags as well. 

[katilac]

Seriously???  You all completely failed to just go with this and comfort me  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

I apologize if I left the wrong impression.  I wasn't saying that she is only applying to schools with such low admittance rates.  What I was trying to say was that the only schools we are sure she can afford are schools with low admission's rates.  It seems like there are schools where she will get in and schools we can afford and not many schools fall into both categories at once.  She is applying to four schools where she should get in without a problem.  I just can't guarantee them financially for her.  She is well above the stats for 3 of them so they anticipate she will get nice merit aid.  

 

Yeah, we suck  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

But what you say next is exactly what I mean when I say she needs a true safety - which is a school that will not be challenging to get into OR challenging to pay. If she doesn't have that, she doesn't have a safety. 

 

It sounds quite likely that she will get a good offer from one of the schools on her list. Still, for my own peace of mind, I would want an admission and financial safety. It could be a school that does not require an essay until she gets to the honors college and/or competitive merit aid stage, but she needs to keep an eye on the priority scholarship deadline (after that date, the guaranteed scholarships are less and less guaranteed). 

[katilac]

It's the bolded part I don't get. If I am reading this correctly you are saying that if she gets into Rice (or others like that) you will be able to afford if but if she gets into a more safety school you won't? How does that work? There will be little to no merit aid with these exclusive schools. But highly qualified students applying to state schools or other schools with more favorable admission rates are much more likely to get large merit aid packages and will have smaller initial price tags as well. 

 

Expensive private schools often make very good grant offers if you meet certain income guidelines. 

 

Some people have reported getting better overall financial offers from the more expensive schools than from state schools. We definitely did not find this to be the case, lol. I think you have to fit a very narrow profile for this to occur, but apparently it can happen. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

It's the bolded part I don't get. If I am reading this correctly you are saying that if she gets into Rice (or others like that) you will be able to afford if but if she gets into a more safety school you won't? How does that work? There will be little to no merit aid with these exclusive schools. But highly qualified students applying to state schools or other schools with more favorable admission rates are much more likely to get large merit aid packages and will have smaller initial price tags as well. 

 

 

We are on the low end of income for the exclusive schools.  For some reason, our state school doesn't see that as a problem - every time I run a NPC for a state school they are close to full ticket.  I can't see that our state schools have merit aid except for a few very difficult to get full rides that go to kids whose parents had the $ to pay for them to set up a charity in Africa or something similar (a stretch maybe, but not too much).  I know that some states offer great merit aid but I am not in one of those states. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Attolia

[Ann.without.an.e]

Expensive private schools often make very good grant offers if you meet certain income guidelines. 

 

Some people have reported getting better overall financial offers from the more expensive schools than from state schools. We definitely did not find this to be the case, lol. I think you have to fit a very narrow profile for this to occur, but apparently it can happen. 

 

 

We happen to hit that narrow window.  For a state school, we aren't on welfare so there isn't much aid but we are still low enough in income that the expensive need-met schools end up cheaper for us than a state school.

[angela in ohio]

It sounds strange, but unless you are fairly well off, a selective school that meets full need is often cheaper than other less expense schools that don't, IF you can get in. Worked out for both of my dds.

 

My dds applied to several competitive schools, but they also applied to one meh school they would have hated going to (dh and I went there, haha.) Anyone can get in, and they have high automatic scholarships if you were slightly above mediocre in HS.

 

The applications they put in that were a bit pointless were the middle level schools with little aid. There was that one in a million shot of a merit scholarship, but otherwise no way.

[raptor_dad]

Have you looked at some less competitive full(ish?) need LACs like College of Wooster(similar selectiveness to Elon). That could be a solution if you can afford your EFC at a given school, while still being intellectually appealing to DD. Also closer by if that's still a concern. 

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by raptor_dad

[JanetC]

Janet, how does that list compare to the yolasite lists for NMF and full tuition scholarships? It might be worth $8 to add another safety or 2.

 

@8FillTheHeart - You have a lot of experience tracking down scholarships on a tight budget, so I'm not sure how many new leads you would find here. Particularly safeties, where you need automatic rather than competitive scholarships. Plus having to cross of schools that don't have Russian.

 

This is a great intro to merit aid at a great price for those who haven't done this before, and she is pretty obsessive about keeping the links up to date.

[hopskipjump]

We are on the low end of income for the exclusive schools.  For some reason, our state school doesn't see that as a problem - every time I run a NPC for a state school they are close to full ticket.  I can't see that our state schools have merit aid except for a few very difficult to get full rides that go to kids whose parents had the $ to pay for them to set up a charity in Africa or something similar (a stretch maybe, but not too much).  I know that some states offer great merit aid but I am not in one of those states. 

 

:iagree:  This is where we fell. Our in-state flagships offered puny merit aid (even for a dd with sufficiently high stats to have earned significant scholarships elsewhere) - and they offered ZERO financial aid (unsubsidized loans, maybe...).

 

The more exclusive the school, the better the financial aid package dd was offered. To go to those schools would have, in the end, cost 1/4 of what it would have cost for her to go to our state flagship!! :huh:  It blew my mind!!!

 

FWIW (not necessarily to you, OP, but to others maybe reading this) - we were really impressed with University of Alabama's Honors College and their Fellows Experience and Computer Based Honors programs. For those with high-stats students... maybe take a deeper look into their programs. DD applied to the Fellows and made it to the final round of interviews before withdrawing her name (she'd chosen to go elsewhere due to her sport by that point in the process...) - but we were really impressed with what they had to offer, especially considering it would have been tuition-free due to their automatic scholarships.

Edited October 4, 2016 by hopskipjump

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Seriously???  You all completely failed to just go with this and comfort me  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

I apologize if I left the wrong impression.  I wasn't saying that she is only applying to schools with such low admittance rates.  What I was trying to say was that the only schools we are sure she can afford are schools with low admission's rates.  It seems like there are schools where she will get in and schools we can afford and not many schools fall into both categories at once.  She is applying to four schools where she should get in without a problem.  I just can't guarantee them financially for her.  She is well above the stats for 3 of them so they anticipate she will get nice merit aid.  

 

Upthread 8FilltheHeart mentioned Alabama, which offered a great merit aid package to her son, and has very generous merit aid.  Acceptance rate 51% http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out-of-state.php

 

Miami University (Ohio) has merit aid that is tied to scores and gpa.  Acceptance rate 68%  http://miamioh.edu/admission/merit-grid/

 

Oklahoma University (Acceptance rate 81%) has merit aid, including a full tuition offer for National Merit Finalists who list OU as their first choice.  https://ou.edu/content/dam/recruitment/scholarships/ScholDescription_15.16_nonres.pdf

 

Auburn (Acceptance rate 77% ) has merit aid, including full tuition for National Merit Finalists.  http://auburn.edu/scholarship/undergraduate/freshman.html  

 

One thing that we are looking at is colleges that are large, but also have an Honors College, Honors Program or learning communities based on major.  That can make the school smaller and also help the student find like minded peers.

 

On the flip side, many of the schools ds is considering do not have any merit aid.  All of their students would be deserving.  He is applying for a Navy ROTC scholarship and knows that there is a whole tier of schools that is not likely to be an option if he does not have the scholarship.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

A pp mentioned Russian.  Is this a criteria for potential schools?

[8filltheheart]

Her ACT is a 35 (2330 SAT)

4 points higher than Emory's average and 3 points higher than Rice's average but I know without a doubt that this is in no way a guarantee.  

She is a creative, strong writer so her essays are great.  Also, being first generation is a positive for the harder to get into schools.  She is an AP Scholar with Distinction because of the amount of AP's she has taken and her scores on them and she has won several writing and science awards.  I just know that all of this is no guarantee at these particular schools so dropping the one school that I feel will be a safety financially and for admissions is hard for me.  I am not a risk taker though.  All I can hope is that those other schools will end up with good aid in the end  :confused1:

 

You have not looked closely enough at high merit aid schools. Your Dd would automatically get close to a full ride at UAHuntsville. http://www.uah.edu/admissions/undergraduate/financial-aid/scholarships/merit-tuition-scholarships Only food and books are not covered.

 

If you spend time researching high merit aid schools, you will find a decent number that offer high $$ amts to top students.

 

 

@8FillTheHeart - You have a lot of experience tracking down scholarships on a tight budget, so I'm not sure how many new leads you would find here. Particularly safeties, where you need automatic rather than competitive scholarships. Plus having to cross of schools that don't have Russian.

 

This is a great intro to merit aid at a great price for those who haven't done this before, and she is pretty obsessive about keeping the links up to date.

Thanks!! I have spent hours upon hours researching, so it probably doesn't have anything new.

 

But, Attolia, it might definitely be worth $8 for you!   

A pp mentioned Russian.  Is this a criteria for potential schools?

That was directed toward me. It has been the most difficult criteria in finding affordable schools for our dd. High merit and high levels of Russian don't intersect at too many schools.

[creekland]

I agree with everyone else about safety schools needing to be those you are sure will be financially possible.  It doesn't matter if she can get in if she can't afford the school.

 

My high stat guy used Pitt and Alabama as his safety schools.  Both had rolling admissions and merit, so he had admission and a baseline cost very soon after applying (hadn't even finished applying at Pitt actually before he got notice - high stats talk).  In the end, Pitt was even his second choice.  U Rochester was his first choice though - and came in less expensive than either safety.  He loves it there.  Nonetheless, it wouldn't have been comfortable waiting and hoping, so I'm glad he had his safeties in hand.

 

My youngest was adamant about wanting one school - Eckerd - where he is.  He did not want to apply to others.  We were pretty confident he'd get in, but didn't know the finances.  His Plan B was to stay home and work for a year if finances didn't work out.  We agreed to that.  What he needed was a Plan B we were all comfortable with.  It didn't have to be a school he didn't want.  Fortunately it worked out and he's now in his junior year.

 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Please tell me more about the Alabama schools.  I do see that she would have an automatic tuition and board at Huntsville and that would be a great back up plan.  How many of these scholarships do they give?  It doesn't seem to me that it is automatic but it seems another scholarship where you compete. Does anyone know which school/schools dd should consider most?  Would love to know any thoughts/opinions on any of them :)

Edited October 4, 2016 by Attolia

[creekland]

Please tell me more about the Alabama schools.  I do see that she would have an automatic tuition and board at Huntsville and that would be a great back up plan.  How many of these scholarships do they give?  It doesn't seem to me that it is automatic but it seems another scholarship where you compete. Does anyone know which school/schools dd should consider most?  Would love to know any thoughts/opinions on any of them :)

 

As far as I know (meaning back when middle son was looking at them), these are automatic scholarships meaning anyone with matching stats gets the offer.  That part is not competitive.  What is competitive is anything higher - up to a full ride.

 

We never looked at Huntsville, so I can't compare that school.  We went to Tuscaloosa and were impressed enough for it to be a viable safety.  Their Honors Program is quite good.  What my guy didn't like about it was the emphasis on sports and the size (in that order).  Both of those were similar with Pitt.  UA also didn't have his preferred major (neuro/cognitive - brain studies), so it dropped out of consideration early (Pitt does have them), but had his other schools been unaffordable he felt he could get a decent education there (microbio as a major) and would be happy.

 

I often recommend both schools as safeties, though Alabama is more of a sure thing with finances if one is ok with just free tuition (or tuition and board with UAH).  For kids who like sports and/or a larger size, their safety can even become their first choice after a visit.  For others, the finances can be super appealing over looking at sky high debt if they don't get similar financial offers elsewhere.

[8filltheheart]

Please tell me more about the Alabama schools. I do see that she would have an automatic tuition and board at Huntsville and that would be a great back up plan. How many of these scholarships do they give? It doesn't seem to me that it is automatic but it seems another scholarship where you compete. Does anyone know which school/schools dd should consider most? Would love to know any thoughts/opinions on any of them :)

I am pretty sure UAH's scholarships are automatic.

 

UA (Tuscaloosa) is one of the 2 flagships. She would get an automatic full tuition scholarship there. Their other scholarships are competitive, but they allow stacking of dept and program scholarships on top of their admission scholarships. Our ds attends there full-ride bc he has multiple stacking scholarships.

 

CBH is a fantastic program. If you have questions about it, I can answer those. I am not overly familiar with their fellows program.

[Hoggirl]

I am going to suggest Ole Miss as well.

 

http://finaid.olemiss.edu/scholarships/

 

Theirs is a bit more convoluted and piecemeal, but there is LOTS of money to be had for high stats students. I liked that their Honors College was smaller and by application only. I think they take around 300 per year into it. Admission to the Honors College is not automatic based on stats as it is at many other flagships. They have separate Honors College housing as well. I don't know about Alabama, but at our state flagship Honors College housing can fill up fast. I recommend depositing for a HOUSING deposit at the safeties as soon as you get in.

 

Is your daughter National Merit? That part at Ole Miss was hard to figure out, but at the time ds applied it covered tuition, fees, and at least housing, Maybe board as well! He received a lot of automatic merit money and also was chosen for an $8,000 per year competitive scholarship as well. Eagle Scout would have garnered another $1,500 per year and being Valedictorian yet another $1,500 per year. Honestly, I always say they would have bought his tooth paste at Ole Miss. Ole Miss also has the prestigious Stamps Scholarship. My ds did not get invited to compete for that, but your dd's test scores are slightly higher than ds's were.

 

Ds would have been basically free at our state flagship (the University or Arkansas) or Ole Miss. He would have chosen the latter if it had come to that choice. Ole Miss actually made his top three along with Rice (where he did receive merit - didn't your dd do a fly-in there?) and Stanford. That much money is hard to turn down when one is full-pay - he managed to do it though and chose the dream school instead. Ha ha!

 

OP, I don't remember what state you are in or what your daughter's interests are, but I encourage folks who look at Bama for merit money reasons to also look at Ole Miss as well.

 

ETA: National Merit does not cover meals at Ole Miss. Scroll down that huge list of scholarships to see the awards under "Academic Excellence." Those are the ones that are cut and dry. National Merit Academic Excellence is listed under that one. There are many scholarships listed for Mississippi residents, but not all are. The Academic Excellence and National Merit Academic Excellence cover full tuition. The difference in amounts is because of the differences in in-state and out-of-state tuition amounts. National Merit adds housing costs to that award.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Hoggirl

[Ann.without.an.e]

The UAH app seems to just be a form - no grades, no essays, nothing.  Am I seeing this right?  

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I am pretty sure UAH's scholarships are automatic.

 

UA (Tuscaloosa) is one of the 2 flagships. She would get an automatic full tuition scholarship there. Their other scholarships are competitive, but they allow stacking of dept and program scholarships on top of their admission scholarships. Our ds attends there full-ride bc he has multiple stacking scholarships.

 

CBH is a fantastic program. If you have questions about it, I can answer those. I am not overly familiar with their fellows program.

Yes, UA(T) does allow stacking but you have to know early on (quite early in the game) which department and program scholarships you want to apply for. Some of those competitions have early deadlines and travel is required. DS applied to UA(T) and was awarded full tuition. We did not do enough research into the other scholarships, though, and he missed multiple deadlines. He also was an undeclared major as he was unsure at that time what he wanted to study; that meant he couldn't apply for certain scholarships.

 

To the OP - if your DD has a plan and knows what she wants, I encourage her to apply to UA(T) and as many of the scholarships as she can.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I have a difficult time seeing her drop from a school ranked #38 to #418.  Yet, UAH is guaranteed full tuition and housing, I even called to confirm.  That's hard not to keep in your back pocket, right?

[creekland]

I have a difficult time seeing her drop from a school ranked #38 to #418.  Yet, UAH is guaranteed full tuition and housing, I even called to confirm.  That's hard not to keep in your back pocket, right?

 

What major?  Major means more than overall rankings at any college.

 

I just googled Eckerd.  It's currently #122 among LACs in general, but if one is looking for Marine Science - esp tropical Marine Science (as my guy was at that time), they are in the Top 10 - often #1 - with anyone actually working in the field and/or hiring that we contacted.

[Ann.without.an.e]

What major?  Major means more than overall rankings at any college.

 

I just googled Eckerd.  It's currently #122 among LACs in general, but if one is looking for Marine Science - esp tropical Marine Science (as my guy was at that time), they are in the Top 10 - often #1 - with anyone actually working in the field and/or hiring that we contacted.

 

 

She wants to double in Bio and English. UAH is the ideal size that DD is looking for and the honors college seems like a neat choice.

[8filltheheart]

I have a difficult time seeing her drop from a school ranked #38 to #418. Yet, UAH is guaranteed full tuition and housing, I even called to confirm. That's hard not to keep in your back pocket, right?

This is where rankings show their weaknesses. UAH is in major technological heart. It has close ties with Cummings Research Park http://www.huntsvillealabamausa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138&Itemid=271. Nasa is another major presence. Top students have access to plentiful internship opportunities.

[Ann.without.an.e]

This is where rankings show their weaknesses. UAH is in major technological heart. It has close ties with Cummings Research Park http://www.huntsvillealabamausa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138&Itemid=271. Nasa is another major presence. Top students have access to plentiful internship opportunities.

 

 

Every time I look at UAH, I always think that DS would do well there more than DD but I may require her to apply just as a financial back up.  I called and it is automatic.  All we would pay is food and books.  You can't beat that and being research centered, I am sure their bio program is good.  Maybe not the english program though.  

[MysteryJen]

Gently, you need to get over rankings. Great educations are to be found at many, many schools. No matter how high stats a kid is, the very selective schools are not a guarantee. Generally, I feel that everyone should have two safeties, academic AND financial, so no matter what, you have a choice to make. High stats kids have lots of options, but a rollilng admissions school with automatic scholarships can make the waiting of senior year much, much easier for parents and kid.

[creekland]

She wants to double in Bio and English. UAH is the ideal size that DD is looking for and the honors college seems like a neat choice.

 

Ask where recent graduates in those majors have gone (grad school, professional schools, employment, etc).  That's usually quite telling as to what other places think of a department.

 

At URoc's graduation this past spring, the individual department events we attended (3 - Bio, Brain & Cognitive, Neuro) all told where graduates were going and what they had done while in school.  It's was quite impressive.  

 

None of this is any guarantee that any particular student will see this sort of success (that requires individual effort), but it shows what is available and can happen.

[Crimson Wife]

 

My youngest was adamant about wanting one school - Eckerd - where he is.  He did not want to apply to others.  We were pretty confident he'd get in, but didn't know the finances.  His Plan B was to stay home and work for a year if finances didn't work out.  We agreed to that.  What he needed was a Plan B we were all comfortable with.  It didn't have to be a school he didn't want.  Fortunately it worked out and he's now in his junior year.

 

Americorps is a great Plan B because they offer money for college in addition to looking better on a resume than the typical job a brand-new H.S. graduate can land.

[JanetC]

It's the bolded part I don't get. If I am reading this correctly you are saying that if she gets into Rice (or others like that) you will be able to afford if but if she gets into a more safety school you won't? How does that work? There will be little to no merit aid with these exclusive schools. But highly qualified students applying to state schools or other schools with more favorable admission rates are much more likely to get large merit aid packages and will have smaller initial price tags as well.

This really depends on the state and on the family's level of need.

 

State merit and need aid varies widely among the states. It is rare for state schools to meet full need, and many states don't give much in merit, either.

 

At private schools, merit aid is a recruiting tool, so the goal is just to be lower than what the competition might offer, not necessarily a free ride. It was relatively easy for my DD to find a half-tuition merit award at a private school. 8Fill, who's DD probably has much better stats, is having a hard time finding full-tuition awards at private schools. The higher ranked the school, the more rare and competitive those extra large merit awards will be and not something you put on your list as a safety.

 

Schools that meet full need are great deals for families wifh low EFC. The price is right and you know if you get in you will get the need-based award. But, the lower admit rates mean these are also not great options for a safety school.

 

I have a friend in a similar situation to Attolia's. Her son's primary strategy is to reach for those full need schools. The in state safety is only a safety because the child has AP and dual-enrollment credits and can graduate with those transfer credits in 2.5 to 3 years, which brings the total price down to the same level.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

We happen to hit that narrow window.  For a state school, we aren't on welfare so there isn't much aid but we are still low enough in income that the expensive need-met schools end up cheaper for us than a state school.

So do we!

 

My high stats DS was accepted to our IS flagship and offered the maximum merit aid offered. There is no way we could have met the EFC; no way.

 

His other merit and need based offers were all over the map as were his acceptances. He was accepted, denied, and waitlisted; there was no rhyme or reason. He had offers that ranged from a fullride to about 30% of tuition.

 

He is currently attending a highly ranked OOS private LAC with generous need based aid and outside scholarships. Another highly ranked OOS LAC which offers need based aid (and we thought we were a shoo in for the need based aid, especially since DS was offered early admission even though he applied RA) wanted over 30% of our take home pay to fulfill our EFC. Our appeal was denied.

 

One of DS's safeties was a low ranked IS uni where he was offered a full ride and admission into the honor's college. He didn't want to attend that uni but he still applied and put in great effort to earn the Presidential (full ride) scholarship. It was something he knew he had to do in order to guarantee attending college. Not going to college wasn't an option for him and that made applying to lower ranked unis acceptable and even desirable.

 

 --

I apologize if this is confusing, I'm highly distracted today.

[Heather in VA]

I do know that private schools can be cheaper because of merit aid. The packages both of my girls got from private schools were half-tuition or more. I've just never heard of kids going to somewhere like Rice on a full ride because of need. The OP was saying the "lesser" schools were financially out of reach but with the stats to get into Rice-type schools there would be plenty of excellent options who would offer full rides so 'full tuition' seems within reach. Also, does the full need stuff cover room and board? Those tend to be quite pricey at the more exclusive schools and the OP is saying that some schools she's talked to would cover everything but food and books. That's tough to beat so I'm not sure how that can be out of reach but Rice wouldn't be even with need covered. I don't think anyone has a 0 EFC.  I was just confused by the different comments. 

 

Of course if she loves Rice, they can afford Rice, and she gets in - the more power to her. That's fantastic. The posts just seemed to me to say that a reason for avoiding having a safety school was that they couldn't find one they could afford and that confused me in light of the other posts. 

[Hoggirl]

I have a difficult time seeing her drop from a school ranked #38 to #418. Yet, UAH is guaranteed full tuition and housing, I even called to confirm. That's hard not to keep in your back pocket, right?

Is she National Merit??

 

If so, Ole Miss would be the same - tuition and housing. Nothing against UAH - I know nothing about it. National Merit can open doors at other schools.

 

I wholeheartedly agree about getting past the rankings. Smart kids who avail themselves of opportunities can get many fabulous opportunities at "lower-ranked" schools because they are standouts.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

   That was directed toward me. It has been the most difficult criteria in finding affordable schools for our dd. High merit and high levels of Russian don't intersect at too many schools.

 

I knew you needed languages.  I thought I'd missed something about the OP's dd's needs.

 

It does get finicky quick.  Navy ROTC schools with Chinese and a solid International Relations or Regional Studies department.  DS may have apps open at just about every school that meets the requirements.