Settle a dispute in the household (herpetology related)

[Ginevra]

:D

 

By whatever cooincidence, DH has seen/found several snakes this year. Like, perhaps five since spring. (Not looking for snakes, just happening upon them.) On one occassion, he said it seemed like it was a "bad year for snakes," (meaning: a larger number of snakes than in other years, in the same way you might say it's a "bad year for mosquitoes.") I objected, saying it was not logical to apply this to snakes since snakes are not cyclical in the way insects are.

 

However, he also just had a similar conversation with a friend whose house is overrun with mice. The friend states that snakes are scarce this year and thus, he has mice. DH asserts that he feels it is a "bad year for snakes," but the friend disagrees; "it's a good year for snakes."

 

I think this whole argument is nonsense :) and maintain that snake populations don't rise and fall annually due to weather, say, the way Japanese Beetles do. So, who is right? Can you apply "bad year for ________" to animals with longer lifespans or who are more adaptive than fruit flies?

[Guest]

Certainly the populations change with availability of prey and predation. Why would snakes be exempt from this? Weather can factor in because it affects things down the food chain, but it definitely could be actual population increases in a specific area or even territory. It's all very interconnected :)

[maize]

Weather can also affect snakes--exceptionally cold winters have been shown to kill off entire dens of overwintering snakes through freezing, flooding conditions can do the same.

[EmseB]

I would say that it's a flawed argument to say that because you (general) have seen a lot or a little of one animal that it is a good/bad year for that animal.

 

But, weather can effect populations of certain animals from year to year. You just need more than a sample size of one person's experience to make any kind of definitive claim.

[Guest]

Aww, man. Are you all saying I have to concede this one? Boo.

[Melissa in Australia]

The weather can also affect how many snakes are out, moving and visable. I like snakes ( and all the snakes here are venomous ). I would say a good year for snakes.

[Ausmumof3]

We often have the phrase " a good year for snakes" but it's more to do with the weather increasing their visibility than population numbers I assume.

[Guest]

Aww, man. Are you all saying I have to concede this one? Boo.

You can win on something else, I'm sure the opportunity will present itself ;)

[Dmmetler]

Absolutely. Weather conditions affect food supply, clutch size, visibility, thermoregulation, and predator activity among other things. Populations can swing dramatically from year to year. Disease also makes a difference. Snake Fungal disease, for example, has made rattlesnakes much less visible in the NE USA the last few years because affected snakes hide more until they've shed several times, hunt less, and therefore are smaller and tend to have fewer offspring.

 

Having said that, some of the conditions often attributed to making it a "good or bad" year are more wives tales than actual. For example, it is common for news agencies to report that snakes may come onto your property more in droughts. There was a talk at JMIH last year that had researched snake mobility due to drought and found that they actually move much, much less, and therefore, if you see them in drought conditions, they were there all along.

Edited September 26, 2016 by dmmetler

[Annie G]

I haven't 'happened' upon five snakes in the 55 years I've been alive. I can recall three. So for me, finding five in a single year would be a bad year for snakes. 

 

It's all about perspective, Quill. g

[Guest]

Absolutely. Weather conditions affect food supply, clutch size, visibility, thermoregulation, and predator activity among other things. Populations can swing dramatically from year to year. Disease also makes a difference. Snake Fungal disease, for example, has made rattlesnakes much less visible in the NE USA the last few years because affected snakes hide more until they've shed several times, hunt less, and therefore are smaller and tend to have fewer offspring.

 

Having said that, some of the conditions often attributed to making it a "good or bad" year are more wives tales than actual. For example, it is common for news agencies to report that snakes may come onto your property more in droughts. There was a talk at JMIH last year that had researched snake mobility due to drought and found that they actually move much, much less, and therefore, if you see them in drought conditions, they were there all along.

The herp love in your family is so adorable - I was looking forward to your answer here because I knew it would be awesome and thorough :D

[Guest]

The herp love in your family is so adorable - I was looking forward to your answer here because I knew it would be awesome and thorough :D

Same here. Now I know *THE* Hive snake authority has spoken. :D

[ikslo]

Since dmmetler has already spoken, I voted Unicorns. Because I love grapes.

[Dmmetler]

You are partially right, though-snakes don't have a periodic cycle the way Cicadas do.

[SKL]

I have no idea, but coincidentally we just found a snake in our garage a couple days ago.  That has never happened before.  The last time I saw a snake on my property was probably 15+ years ago, and that one was in the garden.

 

I did consider the fact that this might be good for our basement mice problem.  Not good for the mice.  Good for the ... never mind.  :P

[Jane in NC]

I haven't 'happened' upon five snakes in the 55 years I've been alive. I can recall three. So for me, finding five in a single year would be a bad year for snakes. 

 

It's all about perspective, Quill. g

 

Honey, you need to visit some of your boardie friends in snake country.

 

[creekland]

If I saw five snakes around our property in one year (and they were still alive), we'd be moving.  To me, that would be a bad year for snakes...  :tongue_smilie:  We usually see just one or two and not always on our property.  If they are on our property they make good chicken chow (as do mice if we catch them before the cats do).  Snakes around here are more likely down at the creek though.  They can have their own territory down there.

[JoJosMom]

Since dmmetler has already spoken, I voted Unicorns. Because I love grapes.

 

UNICORNS! Me, too!

 

 

 

[maize]

We get cute little garter snakes around here.

[Farrar]

To me a "bad year for snakes" sounds like the snakes are having the bad year - like they're having a low population year or getting killed more. If there's more snakes, it seems like a "good year for snakes" (and maybe a bad year for us if they're under our houses).

 

But you're right that a "bad year for mosquitoes" is clearly good for the mosquitoes. Hm... maybe this is because mosquitoes are undisputed pests to humankind? Snakes can be friend or foe depending.

[Guest]

To me a "bad year for snakes" sounds like the snakes are having the bad year - like they're having a low population year or getting killed more. If there's more snakes, it seems like a "good year for snakes" (and maybe a bad year for us if they're under our houses).

 

But you're right that a "bad year for mosquitoes" is clearly good for the mosquitoes. Hm... maybe this is because mosquitoes are undisputed pests to humankind? Snakes can be friend or foe depending.

He actually realized this, too, while we were discussing the saying. He said so,ething like, "I guess whether it's a bad year or a good year depends on how you feel about snakes."

 

I don't really want mice or snakes in my basement.

[*Lulu*]

There is no part of this thread that does not make me happy.

 

And I don't even like snakes!

[linders]

It must be National Spot-a-Snake Day. For the first time in weeks we saw the nice rat snake that lives in our yard.