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Paradox5

Breastfeeding Help Needed

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Captian "Pumpkin Cheeks" arrived last Thursday! I'll post a picture/stats/birth story later. DH has to download the pictures to my mac.

 

My problem/need is he was very tongue tied which has been taken care of. I also have small inverted nipples though lots of breast tissue. This does not bode well for latching.

 

I did have a lactation consultant come yesterday who gave us the right size nipple shield to help him with exercsing his tongue but he is still just barely on my nipple thus not getting enough at each feed. She also helped with positioning for both of us. Turns out football hold is his preferred one. She weighed him before and after a feed and he was only getting 2ml after both sides! He works hard at the breast then falls asleep for hours.

 

I am pumping like mad using a manual pump (Spectra S2 is on its way!) and using that to supplement. He will feed then still down/glug 2oz. I'm pumping out 3-5 oz per side though I don't think my real supply has come in yet. He is eating enough to maintain his hospital discharge weight (8lbs8oz) but not enough to gain. I'm pumping while he sleeps then he wants to eat when he awakens but I'm worried I pumped it all out so he's really not getting anything.

 

I also started taking Motherlove's More Milk Plus x4/day/333mg capsules. Is this enough? The bottle says if over 175lbs, take more. I'm not over that weight.

 

If you pump and feed exclusively, how do/did you keep your supply up over time? Is it even realistic to consider it? How did you do it? Feed Baby, then pump?

 

Edited by Paradox5
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Dd was born at 35 weeks and would not suck or latch at first. I pumped exclusively and fed her breast milk supplemented with formula. My milk volume was kept up by pumping with a hospital grade pump around the clock, i.e. every four hours, and by eating a ton of calories. Even then, I maxed at about 32 oz a day, but dd was taking 35 at 5-6 weeks of age. I made it about 5 months before giving up.

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I don't have enough experience pumping to give a lot of advice, but I hope someone can. I started out pumping for my oldest because he spent 12 days in the NICU. I pumped as long as was suggested, but my milk came in fast and furious so I ended up with oversupply issues. My only suggestion, if you're trying to build up supply, would be to pump even after you're not getting any milk out to let your body know you need to make more.

 

I would probably also continue to see the lactation consultant if you're trying to switch exclusively to nursing. A really good LC can be worth her weight in gold!

Edited by DesertBlossom

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Dd was born at 35 weeks and would not suck or latch at first. I pumped exclusively and fed her breast milk supplemented with formula. My milk volume was kept up by pumping with a hospital grade pump around the clock, i.e. every four hours, and by eating a ton of calories. Even then, I maxed at about 32 oz a day, but dd was taking 35 at 5-6 weeks of age. I made it about 5 months before giving up.

 

My son was full term but struggled with nursing.He was 6 weeks old before he nursed/latched well.

 

We kept trying and I'd have him nurse and then after he tried a few minutes on each side, I'd give a bottle. Slowly he began to take more from me at each feeding until he completed a whole feeding from me at 6-8 weeeks.

 

I did the above. It was exhasuting but after a terrible start, we made it to nursing a full year.

 

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First of all Hugs!  Newborns are hard!  So, take a deep breath and know there are several ways to handle this, and baby will be okay.

 

Can you buy a baby scale for a reasonable price?  Sometimes they sell them on Ebay for reasonable prices.  This is just a nice bit of comfort to know how much baby is eating.

 

Two, when you get your automatic breastpump, practice pumping with one hand.  You can reach across and hold one bottle with your forearm, and one bottle with your hand.  If you have a free hand to accomplish stuff when you are pumping, this can be a huge relief.

 

Three, it doesn't sound like your supply is too bad to me right now.  Are you pumping 3 - 5 oz per side each time you pump?  That sounds good to me. But, the way to increase it with a pump is to make certain you have a second let down.  So, you would pump until each breast stopped producing milk, then either keep pumping, or wait five minutes and pump again. Eventually you will have a second let-down. This simulates a hungry baby sucking.  The second let-down is notice to your body that you need to produce more milk. 

 

To answer your question, There are women who do exclusively pump, you can do a google search and find support boards, but you don't have to decide that right now.  You can keep offering baby the breast and pump to keep your supply up, and there are babies that just get the hang of it.  You are still early in the game.

 

Keep seeing the lactation consultant, they can help you with so much stuff.  

 

And, with my last baby, I had to feed formula.  I felt this tremendous guilt.  If you do end up having to use some formula, really, it's okay.  Formula is a wonderful thing for when you need it, and it took me a long time to get rid of the guilt I felt.

 

And, overall, take a deep breath, know that everything is going to be okay in the long run, and you will get through this rough patch of newborn.

 

 

 

 

Four, 

Edited by Okra
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Keep seeing the lactation consultant.

 

Can you get your hands on one of those supplemental feeders that run a tube up next to your nipple so the baby can be supplemented while at the breast?

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Three of my babies were tongue-tied. The first two did fine with their tongue-tied clipping and nurses just done afterward. The last baby not so much. I ended up finding a chiropractor/naturopath who worked extensively with tounge ties babies. She does craniosacral therapy on the babies after their youngest are clipped. It made a huge difference with breast-feeding.

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DS 2 had a tongue tie and I had to pump exclusively for almost four months. After that, we were able to transition to nursing. I also used More Milk, but I used the tincture. Per my lactation consultant, I also upped the dose substantially. I ate oatmeal every morning.

 

You really need to get a hospital grade pump rented ASAP. Otherwise you won't get the stimulation you need. I've always been able to rent one from the hospital. When we transitioned to nursing, we also rented a super accurate scale from a breast feeding specialty place. It was such a relief to see that he was taking in more and more. I was making 50+ oz a day at that point, so actually had an oversupply!

 

DS2 had "ot" which was essentially sucking on Soothie pacifiers (the OT and LC were very particular about the brand) and some massage. We also took him for Tibetan Cranial Sacral therapy, suggested by the LC. In the early days, the only times I could nurse were after our appointments.

 

Exclusive pumping is hard! It was miserable at times, frankly. But I'm so glad that I stuck with it.

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I went through something similar. Can you pump right after a feeding? That's what I did. But even if you *think* you are empty you really aren't. The breast produces while the baby is nursing :)

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Keep seeing the lactation consultant.

 

Can you get your hands on one of those supplemental feeders that run a tube up next to your nipple so the baby can be supplemented while at the breast?

 

This! It would give him more milk with less work so he doesn't tire before filling up. Also, prevents bottle confusion. There are two models, the Medela SNS and the Lact-aid. I hear people like the second better, but it depends what you can find. 

 

Also, google breast compressions. You can help him get more milk by compressing the breast in a certain fashion while he nurses. 

 

Finally, there are shields you can wear in your bra, when not nursing/pumping to help draw out your nipples. 

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I just want to correct a claim another person made that hospital grade pumps are superior. The term hospital grade pump is not regulated by the FDA, so there is no standard that they always share. Usually (but not always), what hospital grade pumps have in common is that they are a closed system, so milk doesn't inadvertently get sucked into the motor and thus they are safe to use by multiple women without fear of bacterial contamination. There is no shared superior pumping mechanism by self-labeled hospital grade pumps.

 

OP, definitely check out KellyMom. It's pretty much the biggest source for all pumping and bf resources online. Unlike a lot of sites, their articles are backed up with footnotes to studies and such.

 

I exclusively pumped for about ten months for similar reasons to yours. The best thing I did was get domperidone, medicine to increase milk supply (home remedies didn't work). It's used worldwide over the counter, but unless you order it online (which I did), you can only get it prescription in the US if you have a compounding pharmacy nearby where they can make it.

Edited by Epicurean

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This! It would give him more milk with less work so he doesn't tire before filling up. Also, prevents bottle confusion. There are two models, the Medela SNS and the Lact-aid. I hear people like the second better, but it depends what you can find. 

 

Also, google breast compressions. You can help him get more milk by compressing the breast in a certain fashion while he nurses. 

 

Finally, there are shields you can wear in your bra, when not nursing/pumping to help draw out your nipples. 

:iagree:

 

I was just coming to post this.  Think of how  you would eat a sub sandwich ... you have to compress the sandwich to get the bread, fillings, and bread.  When your goal is to get a good latch, then you want the hand to compress the breast to match the direction of the mouth.  If the baby is horizontal, then you want your hand in a "U" shape, not a "C" shape.  Also, using compressions during a nursing session can help the baby get more milk.  Here is a l

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I will second the suggestion to look at articles on www.kellymom.com !

Edited by Ravin

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Kellymom is great. Hospital grade is the term that LCs have used with me, so it's what I know. You need a powerful pump! I used the Medela symphony. I could not get domperidone, even at a compounding pharmacy, two years ago.

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:iagree:

 

I was just coming to post this.  Think of how  you would eat a sub sandwich ... you have to compress the sandwich to get the bread, fillings, and bread.  When your goal is to get a good latch, then you want the hand to compress the breast to match the direction of the mouth.  If the baby is horizontal, then you want your hand in a "U" shape, not a "C" shape.  Also, using compressions during a nursing session can help the baby get more milk.  Here is a longish video from Dr. Jack Newman on breastfeeding basics

 

Just wanted to second that Newman's website is really great, there are lots of videos and useful information.

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I had a sleepy eater who didn't want to nurse after his time in the NiCU. To get him to stay awake, I didn't let him get all cozy and warm while eating. I would also gently rub his sternum with my knuckle as soon as he started to nod off. He did prefer a bottle because he didn't have to work as hard to eat, but I did successfully breastfeed him for 6 months so he did figure it out eventually. Good luck with your supply issues, I managed to nurse each of my kids a little longer than the previous one. I'm convinced if I had one more child I may actually reach a year.

 

Congratulations on the new baby!

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I had a horrible time with dd. She was tongue tied and had two laser surgeries to correct it, but it never fully corrected due to the way it healed. It could be that after the frenectomy it reattached. There are different schools of thought on the whole thing, I could go on about it but I'll spare you.

 

Are you seeing an IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant)? Or some other form of LC? You really want to see an IBCLC. I saw three of them. I didn't find them all in one place or on one website. I was able to see one for free as she was the leader of the LLL group, but she didn't know as much about ties as the others. I'm not saying you need three Lol.

 

I pumped more or less exclusively for several months. What I mean is, I would let her nurse a bit at the breast, but since she was unable to empty the breast (in the first several months of her life, anyway) we would finish the feed with a bottle of expressed milk and/or formula. I supplemented, but I didn't start pumping or pumping as often as I needed to at first. I didn't have the knowledge, support or access to the pump I needed in the beginning. All I had was a tiring manual at first! I worked my way up, but usually had to continue with the formula a bit because I was unable to commit to 8+ pumping sessions a day.  I was doing well on the days I got 5. I was a SAHM so I had to set the baby down to pump and she was not content just sitting in the bouncer while I pumped. You can hold the baby while using a freemie pump but I didn't try those. I tried different things to boost my supply, but the fenugreek backfired for me/baby. It seemed to have side effects so I quit.

 

I never used my Spectra. It arrived after baby was using the breast more efficiently. I rented the Medela Symphony for a number of months and it was a life saver. I logged my pumping sessions on the pump log app. I highly recommend it. I mean don't go crazy thinking oh no my baby didn't get enough milk because the pumped milk is not always an accurate portrayal of what they consume. But it helped me keep track of when I pumped, for how long and how much I was yielding day to day/week to week. Prior to that I was writing it all down on notebook paper. There are charts online to help you determine what kind of milk storage capacity you have. Some moms have to nurse more frequently and some nurse less frequently.

 

I want to say there is hope. I mean, I literally just weaned her less than a week ago. She is 21 months. I never thought we'd make it to a year. It was very hard and I had to fight really hard. Now I think I'm an expert on pumping supplies LOL. I can paste some links later if you want. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

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Keep seeing the lactation consultant.

 

Can you get your hands on one of those supplemental feeders that run a tube up next to your nipple so the baby can be supplemented while at the breast?

 

This is excellent advice.

 

Finally, there are shields you can wear in your bra, when not nursing/pumping to help draw out your nipples. 

 

I had inverted nipples with my first - I knew absolutely nothing about breastfeeding and didn't even decide to do it until they handed him to me and asked if was going to breast or bottle feed. I used the shields religiously (be aware - you will drip milk CONSTANTLY) but they did the job. With each feeding, my nipples got better and better at doing their job, and baby boy got better at his part, too. He lost weight the first 10 days or so, but he eventually got the hang of it and he breast-fed exclusively until 5+ months old (until he was diagnosed with multiple food allergies).

 

Is there a new moms' breastfeeding group near you? My OB/GYN/midwife office runs one in conjunction with the hospital. I attended with baby boy #2 (13 years after baby boy #1) and it was extremely helpful.

 

Good luck, mama! Congrats!

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I'd like to point out that sometimes a speech language pathologist that deals with feeding issues might also be a good source of information. Our lactation consultant and our pediatrician totally missed the fact that my son did not have the jaw stability to sustain feeding. The lactation consultant saw his little quivery chin, and she thought it was cute. 

 

His feeding issues were finally diagnosed at age 7 by a PROMPT speech therapist. (His issues extend beyond breastfeeding, but they also caused the breastfeeding problems.) 

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Cranial sacral therapy! My daughter had a pretty bad tongue tie when she was born and couldn't suck very well. We had it clipped when she was 4 days old but she still couldn't suck. I was told that her muscles controlling her tongue didn't develop in uetero because of the tongue tie. She was losing weight, so many frustrating nursing sessions. My La Leche leader suggested cranial sacral therapy. I took her for one session. It was just some gentle rubbing on her head. Her tongue started coming out of her mouth and she was moving it around like she just discovered it. The therapist had me nurse in the office. Her latch was instantly better. It was a miracle! Of course, I blubbered like a cool because I was so relieved that I could finally feed her. It only took that one session and I never had any problems after that.

 

I hope you consider it, and I'm sorry for your struggles. Hang in there, Mama. Things will get better.

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We saw two CSTs, a pediatric chiro and a PT (she had torticollis). I didn't really notice any difference, but that's not to say it doesn't make a difference in other people's cases. Not all CSTs have a lot of baby patients/work on the mouth, either.

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Captian "Pumpkin Cheeks" arrived last Thursday! I'll post a picture/stats/birth story later. DH has to download the pictures to my mac.

 

My problem/need is he was very tongue tied which has been taken care of. I also have small inverted nipples though lots of breast tissue. This does not bode well for latching.

 

I did have a lactation consultant come yesterday who gave us the right size nipple shield to help him with exercsing his tongue but he is still just barely on my nipple thus not getting enough at each feed. She also helped with positioning for both of us. Turns out football hold is his preferred one. She weighed him before and after a feed and he was only getting 2ml after both sides! He works hard at the breast then falls asleep for hours.

 

I am pumping like mad using a manual pump (Spectra S2 is on its way!) and using that to supplement. He will feed then still down/glug 2oz. I'm pumping out 3-5 oz per side though I don't think my real supply has come in yet. He is eating enough to maintain his hospital discharge weight (8lbs8oz) but not enough to gain. I'm pumping while he sleeps then he wants to eat when he awakens but I'm worried I pumped it all out so he's really not getting anything.

 

I also started taking Motherlove's More Milk Plus x4/day/333mg capsules. Is this enough? The bottle says if over 175lbs, take more. I'm not over that weight.

 

If you pump and feed exclusively, how do/did you keep your supply up over time? Is it even realistic to consider it? How did you do it? Feed Baby, then pump?

 

 

Okay, I haven't read the replies, but babies usually lose a percentage of their weight.  SO this means that if baby was just born last Thursday and here it is a week later, and he is at his birth weight - THAT IS GREAT!

 

I'm so glad you are supplementing just a little.  I had a doctor send me home with a little one who tuckered out easily and couldn't nurse.  (She was 36 weeks.)  We didn't supplement because we thought she was doing okay.  She wasn't.  At two weeks she had lost a good deal of weight and week later even more.  She had to be hospitalized.  At the hospital we didn't know what was going on (massive tests) but I had to pump and feed - and she finally began to thrive.  She was just too exhausted to take in food.   

 

We've had a few preemies that couldn't take in enough calories by solely nursing before they tired out.  The way they did it in the NICU was to nurse for a few minutes and then top off by bottle feeding and just increase the minutes nursing.  Keep that engorgement at bay.

 

I was terrified we'd have nipple confusion.  We didn't.  Cate was on the breast and bottle for a month before we trusted her to take enough in solely nursing.

 

Are you resting? ( I know you're saying, "You're joking right?"  But, all this stress and worry and being about can kill your supply.  Sit on your tail.  Drink a LOT of water.  The More MIlk PLus is fine.  If you took Red Raspberry Leaf you can also take that.  OR, ew, fenugreek.  (Ugh.  I hate that stuff.)

 

I pumped for a few of my kiddos - mostly NICU babies.   I never had to do it for longer than a month though so I don't know.  I would so much rather nurse than pump because pumping takes the time to PUMP and then also to feed and wash bottles. (I'm not anti-bottle, I had a few of those too.)  It's so much work to pump and feed.

 

 

If you have large breasts you might want to try a football hold latch where baby lays under your armpit essentially.  Think of his feet going to your back and his head  and shoulders peeking at you from under your arm.  Then pull him forward and latch him on that way - it allows you to feed and be less likely to have just too much breast for him to manage.  

 

When dealing with engorgement I'd pump out some first so the breast was less tight/firm and he could latch.  The hindmilk is important for weight gain anyway and I really always wanted that breast emptied - to increase production and to prevent mastitis or plugged ducts.

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Keep seeing the lactation consultant.

 

Can you get your hands on one of those supplemental feeders that run a tube up next to your nipple so the baby can be supplemented while at the breast?

 

 

This! It would give him more milk with less work so he doesn't tire before filling up. Also, prevents bottle confusion. There are two models, the Medela SNS and the Lact-aid. I hear people like the second better, but it depends what you can find. 

 

Also, google breast compressions. You can help him get more milk by compressing the breast in a certain fashion while he nurses. 

 

Finally, there are shields you can wear in your bra, when not nursing/pumping to help draw out your nipples. 

 

I put in my support for this suggestion.

 

I had a an adopted baby that I used a supplemental feeder with for five months until his older brother was born and my milk came in. He was then able to nurse without having had any milk from me for a whole five months.

 

I tried both versions. Both model are fine but the Medela comes with different sized tubes for different feeding rates and doesn't have disposable parts. I think that it may also be cheaper.

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Kellymom is great. Hospital grade is the term that LCs have used with me, so it's what I know. You need a powerful pump! I used the Medela symphony. I could not get domperidone, even at a compounding pharmacy, two years ago.

 

 

I ordered mine online through a foreign pharmacy, with no script.  That was about 6 years ago.  There are online pharmacies who takes scripts for it, if you can get a doc to write it.

 

Please get a supplemental nurser, they can be very helpful.  I know a lot of babies do fine going back and forth from the beginning, but some don't and will give up the breast for the easier bottle nipple.

 

Here's two supplemental systems:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A8S0EY6/ref=pd_cp_75_2?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00A8S0EY6&pd_rd_r=MGSRKST0BDA5902BRH9Y&pd_rd_w=r0OVl&pd_rd_wg=e4qeg&psc=1&refRID=MGSRKST0BDA5902BRH9Y

 

https://www.amazon.com/Medela-009-0003-Supplemental-Nursing-System/dp/B000W73YKY

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This was all very helpful stuff! You guys are so wonderful and supportive. This is what happened:

 

Captain Pumpkin Cheeks caught the cold all the kids and dh had. Being the tiny tot he is, our doc had us bring him in last Friday. His weight had dropped even more! I quit trying to take him to the breast and started feeding him what I was pumping out. Since then, I've either been feeding him pumped milk, pumping new milk, or sleeping. EDITED TO ADD: I also stopped taking the More Milk Plus becasue it was making me feel jittery/shakey and messing with my thyroid. Anything that alters my biochemistry is not usually a good thing.

 

We also took him to our chiro who did cst and muscle testing. Unsurprisingly, Captain has a milk and soy allergy, just as all our other kids did. We also talked to him about formula and not feeling guilty about the lack of breastmilk/feeding. Our chiro sugggested raw goat's milk, which I knew he would, knowing his love for it. He also gave us some probiotics as Captain is very gassy even with his new Kiinde bottle nipple. {It is oval shaped rather than round so he can latch on to it.} I shared Sammy's Milk with him. It is a goat-milk based infant formula based out of California. (I know about Kabrita but it is a dairy/goat blend hence not suitable for our guy.} After that therapy session, I felt MUCH better. EDITED TO ADD: I ordered some Sammy's to try out.

 

My new Spectra s2 also came yesterday but I think it might be too late as my supply is about gone. When I originally posted, I was getting 4-5 oz each side, now I'm getting about 1-2oz. My supply is not replenishing itself even with waiting hours. I am not surprised, really, as I knew this was likely going to be the case due to other factors {hypothyroid, inverted nipples, severe post-partum hemorrhage}. But hey, we made it to 2 weeks and I have 25 frozen 6oz storage bags of breastmilk in the freezer waiting to be mixed into formula to help transition him. That's not so bad, right?

 

 

Edited by Paradox5
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But hey, we made it to 2 weeks and I have 25 frozen 6oz storage bags of breastmilk in the freezer waiting to be mixed into formula to help transition him. That's not so bad, right?

Hun, you did FABULOUS!!!!!!!!! Congratulations! Now concentrate on cuddling that adorable little doll and on recovering yourself.

 

Congratulations Again!!!!!!

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This was all very helpful stuff! You guys are so wonderful and supportive. This is what happened:

 

Captain Pumpkin Cheeks caught the cold all the kids and dh had. Being the tiny tot he is, our doc had us bring him in last Friday. His weight had dropped even more! I quit trying to take him to the breast and started feeding him what I was pumping out. Since then, I've either been feeding him pumped milk, pumping new milk, or sleeping. EDITED TO ADD: I also stopped taking the More Milk Plus becasue it was making me feel jittery/shakey and messing with my thyroid. Anything that alters my biochemistry is not usually a good thing.

 

We also took him to our chiro who did cst and muscle testing. Unsurprisingly, Captain has a milk and soy allergy, just as all our other kids did. We also talked to him about formula and not feeling guilty about the lack of breastmilk/feeding. Our chiro sugggested raw goat's milk, which I knew he would, knowing his love for it. He also gave us some probiotics as Captain is very gassy even with his new Kiinde bottle nipple. {It is oval shaped rather than round so he can latch on to it.} I shared Sammy's Milk with him. It is a goat-milk based infant formula based out of California. (I know about Kabrita but it is a dairy/goat blend hence not suitable for our guy.} After that therapy session, I felt MUCH better. EDITED TO ADD: I ordered some Sammy's to try out.

 

My new Spectra s2 also came yesterday but I think it might be too late as my supply is about gone. When I originally posted, I was getting 4-5 oz each side, now I'm getting about 1-2oz. My supply is not replenishing itself even with waiting hours. I am not surprised, really, as I knew this was likely going to be the case due to other factors {hypothyroid, inverted nipples, severe post-partum hemorrhage}. But hey, we made it to 2 weeks and I have 25 frozen 6oz storage bags of breastmilk in the freezer waiting to be mixed into formula to help transition him. That's not so bad, right?

 

I only got 1-2 oz in the beginning. Emptying more often is what produces more, not waiting longer. So if you want ot stop or feel you need to, that's fine. You have done wonderfully!! But if you want to keep trying, it may not be too late. You see, I actually took pictures of my milk progress at times. I have one saved of a 3oz bottle. Probably the first time I pumped that much. And it was dated end of January. My daughter was born end of Nov. So it took me 2 months. I know our situations are different, but I just wanted to share that in case it was helpful.

 

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I only got 1-2 oz in the beginning. Emptying more often is what produces more, not waiting longer. So if you want ot stop or feel you need to, that's fine. You have done wonderfully!! But if you want to keep trying, it may not be too late. You see, I actually took pictures of my milk progress at times. I have one saved of a 3oz bottle. Probably the first time I pumped that much. And it was dated end of January. My daughter was born end of Nov. So it took me 2 months. I know our situations are different, but I just wanted to share that in case it was helpful.

 

 

I sincerely appreciate this advice. I did try it. Unforunately, I ended up in the ER because my blood pressure kept dropping each time I pumped to the point my lips, fingers and toes were turning blue and I was shaking uncontrollably, and vomiting! My body seems to be saying "Who do you want to keep alive? You or Captain cause I can't do both.". I am so upset about it. I must be the only Mom who had to stop becasue her dumb 44 yr old body can't seem to get with the program.

 

The Sammy's arrived today. He's had two bottles of half Mommy's milk and half Sammy's. He hasn't thrown anything up and doesn't even seem to notice it. Sammy's doesn't smell bad so I guess that helps. 

 

I do have another question. How do you know if your baby is having a reaction to his wipes, diapers, something in my milk, or could it be the probiotics he's taking when his little backside is red, raw, and looks a bit blistered? His pedi perscribed a diaper cream with just a little medicine in it to keep the rash from becoming fungal. 

 

We've been using:

 

wipes: (I researched and was going to try The Honest Company brand next. Cloth is out.)

hospital ones (did not see this with those. wish I knew the brand)

Pampers Sensitive (what we used on The Girl with no problems)

Huggies Natural (really don't like these but someone gave them to us.)

good ole' water from the tap

 

diapers:

Huggies Little Snugglers Newborn

 

And one more question:

What bottles do you like? The Kiinde ones are not conducive to formula feeding.

 

I've looked at:

Tommee Tippee: tried these but the nipple is the wrong shape-too wide-for Captain to latch

Avent Classic+: used these with Son 3. I remember they leaked, though.

Pura Kiki: stainless steel and $$. some reviews say they leak.

Life Factory Glass: DH is concerned about breakage, heat, and weight

OrganicKidz: steel but with a plastic collar. $$

 

Edited by Paradox5

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Oh no, I'm sorry you had so many problems. I didn't have the same problems, but I would get upset about things, too. Like, "why does it seem like I can eat 1-2 bowls of steel cut oatmeal a day and it doesn't seem to do anything for my milk. Meanwhile a mom eats one lactation cookie and it seems like it works wonders." Oh and I used to eat peppermint but then heard it could affect supply so I don't know if I ever screwed myself over with all those Andes chocolates and peppermint pudding (it was around the holidays so flavors like that were around). What you describe sounds very scary and intense. I'm glad you are giving your body a chance to recoup.

 

We tried a few different types of bottles. I ended up going with Lansinoh mOmma and only purchased the slow flow from that point forward. Babies shouldn't need a faster flow later. The general rule of thumb is that Mom's nipples don't change so why should bottle nipples? It probably just leads to overeating/eating too quickly. Speaking of which, I highly recommend you do paced bottle feeding. One of my lactation consultants said when we lie baby down on their back to eat it's like "drink or drown" (at the bottle, not breast). I never thought about it that way. The more upright position and deliberate stopping more frequently helps prevent overeating/going through milk too quickly.

 

 

Oh yeah at one point I tried the expensive Medela Calma bottle. Dd couldn't really figure out how to use it. I think she'd briefly use it right and then forget. It's supposed to be similar to breastfeeding, but most of the time she would just get frustrated!

 

My baby had lip tie and tongue tie. I couldn't ever get her upper lip to flange well even after surgery, so no bottle was perfect. But lots of moms told me about the mOmma bottle and that's the one I ended up sticking with. Prior to that I tried a Nuk orthodontic bottle (flow was way too fast even on slow flow) and the famous Dr. Brown's, but I replaced the Dr. Brown nipple with the mOmma nipple which I think screwed up the vent system so I finally bought mOmma bottles. I didn't want to wash all the Dr. Brown parts, anyway. For a while we used Avent as well, the classic style. The only reason I switched was because I thought that with dd's lip tie it wasn't a very good fit and the mOmma nipple was more like a real nipple shape. Since we had so many latch issues it was important to me to use something that was more natural in shape.

 

I'm so glad the Sammy's is working out for you! I'm just showing you this link so you can see the sizing options. I know supposedly breastfed babies don't need too many ounces per feeding, but I did feel like I needed the 8oz bottles later. If for no other reason than when I would mix formula I would need the extra space. Oh and supposedly you aren't supposed to use room temp water for making bottles?? By the time I heard that I'd been doing it forever. We'd often travel with a bottle of water on the go.

https://www.amazon.com/Lansinoh-NaturalWave-Re-usable-Microwave-Sterilizer/dp/B00UFBOUFU/ref=sr_1_20_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1475300856&sr=8-20&keywords=lansinoh+mOmma

 

The hospital sent us home with Pampers. I think they were called swaddlers. We have tried a few brands of diapers but still use Pampers now (we're currently using Pampers Baby Dry). I had trouble narrowing down what was causing problems with dd, too. We went through several kinds of wipes and diapers and sometimes dh would just bring home what was the best deal so it was really hard for me to figure out. One time dh had bought a bunch of stuff in bulk from Sam's Club. To this day I don't know if the Sam's club wipes were problematic or not. If they were a problem then, maybe not now? I don't know. We normally use Huggies Naturals wipes now, but sometimes Walmart's Parent's Choice sensitive. They're not my favorite but we used them with both kids because they were unscented and reasonably priced. There was also a brand I liked from Kroger. "Comforts" is what the package said. Looks like a bumble bee on a leaf is the logo? I can't remember now which are my favorite... there is one brand where the actual wipe is very soft and textured. Maybe it was Comforts... hmm not sure.

 

The Honest Company screwed up and lied to customers about something (I think the controversy was in a laundry detergent ingredient list maybe??). I did try Honest Company diapers once (freebie given to me). They were okay but I never felt the urge to get online and order a bunch. I don't know anything about their wipes.

 

Did not like Nati diapers (found on Target's website). They were horrible for us! Leaks!

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Hospital grade pump! Breast massage while babe at breast so milk flows with much less work. Pump directly after feeding. Have you tried an at breast supplementer ? I liked this one http://www.lact-aid.com. I used it for 3 months with last dd until she got organized. Congrats and much luck!

Edited by joyofsix

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First, hugs! Some women have weird hormonal responses to breastfeeding, you aren't the only one. It's okay. Really. 

 

Second, for bottles, my preference (or rather the one all my babies would use) is Nuk. Plus it's easy to find at the grocery store or walmart. Mine were mostly nursing, but NUK seemed to be closest for them. And no extra weird parts to wash or whatever. 

 

As for the rash,if it is just red around the anus, I'd say it's a reaction to food. If it is more widespread, I'd guess the diapers. You've tried different wipes, I'd try different diapers. Target ones are cheap and work well. Some of my kids did best with pampers, some with buggies, and some with luvs. 

 

Also, in my experience, the best rash cream has about 40% zinc in it. I don't care what brand, but the ones with only 10-15% zinc do not make a good enough barrier if there is a bad rash. Same with the oil based ones like A/D, olive oil natural ones, etc. Those are fine for prevention, but don't work well when there is a bad rash. 

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I EP'd for DD-she was a preemie with oral motor issues, and by the time she could nurse, she refused fo do so (at first, it was more like dribbling milk into her mouth so she just had to swallow).

 

I had a hospital grade Medela pump, with a double kit and a hands-free bra. Luckily, my insurance paid for it. I pumped every couple of hours at first, plus took fenugreek and ate a lot of oatmeal. For awhile, I ended up actually oversupplied-I was pumping more than 2 liters of milk a day. It actually worked out well-one of my friends has a child with immune system deficiencies, and her supply dried up before her then 3 yr old could afford to not have the immune protection of breastmilk, so for about a year, I was feeding DD and supplementing her preschooler. I started tapering off as DD began eating more solids, but she got breastmilk well past age 2.

 

I will say that the lactation specialist told me that I was unusual-few women are able to maintain that level of supply via pumping alone. I kind of think that it was sheer stubbornness on my part-I'd had a very rough, complicated pregnancy, with. Lot of choices that had to be made. Darn it, that baby was GOING to get breastmilk, no matter what!

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For wipes, we were overseas and wipes were not available. Cotton was used instead, and worked great. We bought rolls of cotton, and tore off pieces, dampened with water, and wiped. If we were traveling, I just dampened them ahead of time and put in a ziploc to use as needed. 

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Just when I thought it was all going to be fine, Sammy's Milk has a massive recall due to bacteria and not enough iron! ARGGG!!!! 

 

So I can't breastfeed or pump. I'm not ok with feeding him raw/straight goat's milk. Soy is just too nasty/bad. Got any ideas?

 

I was looking at Plum Organics. But its milk based.

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oh no!!

 

What is the pediatrician's advice?

 

Both my children had issues with formulas. I used formula only with ds (issues with breastfeeding, he wouldn't latch and I wasn't able to problem solve with the resources I had at that time) and I used a lot of it with dd. We ended up resorting to one of those milk based ones that has the broken down proteins so that the animal protein was not really an issue. The allergy is often animal protein, as opposed to lactose. So I don't know if that's the case in your child's case.

We tried Gerber Good Start Smoothe with dd because it was cheaper than Alimentum, but ultimately switched to Alimentum. When ds was on Alimentum it was covered by WIC with a doctor's note, but with dd we paid out of pocket. Our pediatrician's office was able to give us some free samples at one point (like a few jars and liquid ready variety bottles).

 

The liquid and the powder are slightly different. We favored the powder just because I'd need to make bottles on the go sometimes and the powder had a longer shelf life once opened.

 

I don't know if that would be a solution for you, but look into those types of formulas. I know there are other brands.

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Lactose shouldn't be an issue, the problem is the protein. So yes, one that is partially broken down should help. And sticking to one that uses lactose, not corn syrup...that would be my biggest priority. Why were you trying to avoid milk based?

 

Edited: Ok, saw you did the muscle testing. Honestly, given any hard evidence, I'd try a milk based one. Really. Babies are meant to digest milk..if you get one that has the proteins broken down that should help. 

Edited by ktgrok
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The Pedi's advice is Alimentum. I've used Nutramigen with Son 3. Nasty smelling/tasting stuff that is full of corn syrup solids and things. But if that is what we have to do, than that is what we have to do.

 

I'm going to try both Plum and the Similac. I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

 

I very much appreciate the help. I hope yall know that.

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Your ped should be able to do a occult blood test on the baby's stool. You need a fresh sample, but that usually happens frequently. I would stick with one and not try a bunch. My last baby I had to eliminate just about everything due to her MSPI. I didn't try formula at all with her. The ped said we would have needed the amino acid based kind (NeoCate, Elecare) because hydrolyzed would not have been sufficient. If it is dairy, it can take up to 6 weeks to clear it out of baby's system. If you can find dairy-and-soy free probiotics and digestive enzymes, you may want to start baby on those. They can really help repair a damaged gut. More info on infantreflux.org forums (even if your baby isn't reflux-y, there's lots of info on MSPI).

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Yeah, it can take time to get dairy out of a system. But if it makes you feel any better, we had an overnight drastic change in my son's behavior when we went from one formula to Alimentum. He had been super colicky prior to that. With dd we didn't have any drastic change (that was obvious right anyway, anyway).

 

It's also possible if you're still using your breastmilk supply that there is some dairy in that milk. I hate to say that :( Just depends if you had eliminated all dairy (including hidden dairy which is found here: http://www.kellymom.com/store/freehandouts/hidden-dairy01.pdf ).

 

Alimentum stinks, too. So it's not just Nutramigen (although I have personally never been around that one).

Edited by heartlikealion
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The saga continues:

 

We tried Plum Organics. His eyes turned red and puffy, a rash appeared on his face, his breathing became ragged, and around his mouth looked burned. It was instantenous. I would say those are allergic reactions, wouldn't you?

We tried Alimentum: he spit all of it out. His eyes turned red, too.

 

I'm looking at this one now and crying about why is this so hard? Why did Sammy's have to have this stupid recall thing?

 

https://organicmunchkin.com/holle-goat-1-milk-formula/

 

And this one that is supposed to be hypoallergenic.

 

https://organicmunchkin.com/hipp-ha-pre-combiotic-milk-formula/

Edited by Paradox5

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