shinyhappypeople Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) Is there really that much difference between the first edition and the current edition? We're switching younger DD's math. We'd tried Saxon 54 last year (current edition) and she really didn't like it all. Part of the issue was placement and it was just too much and too hard. It sounds like the 54 first edition is easier. Is there a difference in what's covered, how it's explained or both? She wants clear, direct explanations. She doesn't self-teach math, which is fine. I'll provide direct instruction for whatever we choose. (I'm also considering Rod and Staff and Study Time Arithmetic, so feel free to weigh in on those as well, if you're so inclined. Or add in other suggestions.) Edited November 11, 2016 by shinyhappypeople 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Have you seen this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4aAqEH7jHc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 It really is a pain in the bum tracking down first edition texts. They are easier to self-teach with than later editions, if a student needs to self-teach. Study-time is workbooks and that really messed me up. Students would start, but not finish them and there was no way I could afford that, especially with shipping. I never used Rod and Staff. Shipping on top of the price and it was just too much for me. My life is too chaotic to try and keep up with storing and purchasing these bulky books. I had to yell "uncle". Strayer-Upton was good, but the integrated chapters were not as easy for me to use as Ray's. Shipping was more. I didn't have back up copies in pdf. For better and worse, I'm doing my best to make Ray my core and see how to tweak and supplement it. I'm happy with the direction I'm moving in. If I very suddenly got thrown into a situation homeschooling multiple grandkids or step-children for a number of years and they were pretty much MY kids and not tutoring students, I might look at the above series again, but I don't think so. I'm finally figuring out a Ray's and Blumenfeld scope and sequence that I really like. I'm working hard on some Euclid research the past few days, and some Newspapers in Education titles last week. Both of these are things I used in the past, and I like what I am finding that is new. I'm getting more radical, not less, as I age. I'm more efficient and tired, but more radical than ever. If I decided not to be radical at all and bought something, it would probably be Math on the Level and Math Resource Studio 6. https://www.schoolhousetech.com/math/ and then Saxon Algebra 1 and 2 2nd edition which was the edition I have always used and isn't that hard to find used. After that, it would just depend on a lot of things. For now, for Algebra, if a student is already used to Ray's Arithmetic they can handle the vintage algebras. The vintage algebras are based on a rock solid understanding of Hindu-Arabic system. I don't think this is inferior to modern instruction as a whole. It has its benefits. But it is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted September 17, 2016 Author Share Posted September 17, 2016 Have you seen this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4aAqEH7jHc That video is really helpful. Thanks. It's like the first and third editions are two separate programs, that are only kind of similar. I found a cheap 1st Ed. So I think I should just go ahead and hit the buy button. 1st Ed isn't the same program that made DD cry. If I get it and don't like it, at least it was cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Saxon 1st edition, when children were NOT placed too high, never produced the tears of the later editions taught too young. Remedial was Saxon's first audience. I'm glad you found a book for cheap! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 We use the second editions for everything but physics and calc, where if I recall my FIL had third editions. He was one of the test teachers and provided edits to the first edition and really thinks the second was an improvement. I haven't used the newer editions but my DD is doing beautifully in 54, though 80% of the book is review for her. I'd rather it be a little easier and she get used to the text from a place of confidence than place her too high and have her struggle from out of the gate. Know what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 So is the 2nd edition just a minor revision to the 1st, rather than being a similar format to the 3rd? (I watched the video and there's a pretty dramatic difference between the 1st & 3rd.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I'd say it's closer to the third in that in has the review/mental math practice box and some combined lessons, but it lacks the Investigations section. Now my student who is currently using it and the one who will begin in about a week on 54 have come from a method where they have lots of smatterings of concepts worked into verbal review, and don't mind lessons that cover more than one new topic. We haven't had any issues at all like the lady in the video with frustration on the pace. But I also dotn require self teaching of math - they do a fair bit of it but I'm not grumbling about fielding a question or assisting with a concept jump, even though we do use a lot of Robinson as our source structure too. The lessons are still bite sized chunks, but they might be nibbles from a few topics that then is spread in increasing depth over the next few lessons. It's not actually a longer problem set or more work from what I can tell but rather there is more variability in the problems worked for each set. Clear as mud? As far as calculators, I'm looking at lesson 101 with decimals and it definitely doesn't require or ask for calculator use. In that way it's more like the first edition. But I'd say it's closer to the third edition overall in structure, except with the investigations and calc use. And I wouldn't say it moves overly quickly for an 8-9 year old who has had other math before, especially puzzle heavy, but it isn't incremental enough I'd use it for a child who was in k-2 grade and had only memorized math facts, which is essentially what some families are doing. It goes pretty deep pretty fast in thinking skills that might be too abstract for littler kids, even as it does provide every step and tool they'd need to do it successfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) Saxon 1st edition, when children were NOT placed too high, never produced the tears of the later editions taught too young. Remedial was Saxon's first audience. I'm glad you found a book for cheap! Just wanted to let you know that the 1st ed. Saxon 6/5 is working beautifully for younger DD. The 3rd edition left her in tears. This edition is awesome. We started at lesson 1. She's plodding away through it and isn't complaining about math. The key, for her, is the incremental introduction of concepts. Baby steps... Anyway, I'm so glad you mentioned how good the FIRST edition is compared to the later editions. Thank you :) Edited November 11, 2016 by shinyhappypeople 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Out of desperation, I started dd1(9- 5th) on Saxon 5/4 this year. I didn't really research editions at the time because I didn't realize there was such a difference. She is using the 3rd edition and is right at half-way through. All in all, it has gone pretty well, Saxon has been the best fit of the programs I've tried with her(Horizons, Right Start, Miquon, MEP, Math in Focus and what else I can't remember). I specifically went for Saxon because she does really well with incremental spiral work, Horizons was working decently until last year when it led to tears more than once. I think I am going to consider getting a 1st edition text for 6/5 next year, I think the simplified format and lessons would be a definite plus for her. A quick scan of reviews tells me that with the older editions they will likely need to go through Algebra 1/2 after 8/7 to prepare for Alg but that isn't a huge concern for me, actually, it suits her better. She does well with doing more easier problems, progressing nice and slow. Ironically, she is a quick worker and can easily finish a lesson in less than 30 min BUT she has a low frustration level. Trying to push her along does not work at all. Trying to increase the difficulty because I'm quite certain she could do harder things doesn't work either. Slow and steady is the name of the game for her. I've got to build her confidence that she can do it but she has to believe she can at first. That is all rambly to say thanks to the OP and to Hunter for posting that video it was helpful. I never thought I'd use Saxon, it is the exact opposite of what works with ds BUT I had always said that it is the type of program that would have worked well for me and my daughter is a mini-me and it works for her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingmom Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I am looking for a program to follow RightStart and Saxon first edition is one I am considering. I see it is easy enough in general to find the student books, but what about answers etc. And how would I determine placement, as I assume placement for later editions would be wrong.... Sure wish I could find the next program for my kids for math that I was confident was right foot us. Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 I am looking for a program to follow RightStart and Saxon first edition is one I am considering. I see it is easy enough in general to find the student books, but what about answers etc. And how would I determine placement, as I assume placement for later editions would be wrong.... Sure wish I could find the next program for my kids for math that I was confident was right foot us. Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk I think the answers are in the homeschool packet, which you can also purchase inexpensively on amazon. I just used the placement tests for the current edition and it worked okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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