Best math program for struggling math student

[mumto3girls]

As the title suggests!

 

Preferably with built in daily review.

 

Student is heading into grade 7.

 

ETA: From my research, I have come up with MUS or Saxon.

Edited September 13, 2016 by mumto3girls

[CatholicMom]

I've never heard Saxon recommended for kids who are struggling. I think what program is best depends on what the trouble is, but MUS is much more "painless" than a lot or Math programs. Teaching Textbooks is good for kids who hate writing, or who like the computer, or who would respond well to the interactive lectures, etc. Math U See is very visual, can get monotonous, but is fairly quick to get done on a daily basis.

[My3girls]

My 6th grader struggles with math.  We switched from MM to MUS half through last year, and she is finally making real progress.  I highly recommend it for struggling math students. 

[Chelli]

MUS was what turned things around for my struggling math student. She was going into 7th as well. We switched at the end of 6th last year.

[shinyhappypeople]

That's hard to answer, because it totally depends on why s/he is struggling and how significant his/her struggles are.  I need more details.

 

In general, MUS is good.  

 

My older DD uses TT below grade level with decent results.  TT is weak on conceptual understanding, but has lots of repetition and really drills those algorithms.  My DD may not know WHY the long division algorithm works, but she knows *when* to divide and can practically do it in her sleep.

 

If you're talking about more serious math struggles, Semple Math and Touch Math are worth looking at.

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:   I know this must be very frustrating, trying to figure out what will help your child.

 

I agree with others, determining some good options will depend on WHY your student is struggling.  There are many reasons why a student might struggle with math.  Depending on what the underlying cause is, some programs will work better than others.  They may need something like the Ronit Bird books to solidify significant gaps and shore up subitization skills/number sense.  Or maybe they need a program like MUS to break down specific targeted areas of math with manipulatives in a more mastery based way but not as heavy on concepts.  Or maybe they need CLE for lots of great, systematic review so concepts/algorithms are not lost.  Or maybe they would do better with a combination of something like CLE and Beast Academy.  Or something computer based like Teaching Textbooks.  Or a zillion other options/combinations.

 

There are many great math programs out there.  Each one is a little different (or a LOT different).  Without knowing what the underlying struggles are, it will be hard for us to help.  Is there any way you could post specifically how your student is struggling?  If  you aren't sure, perhaps you could post which types of problems they seem to trip up on?  Unless we have more targeted information the recommendations you receive will really just be a shot in the dark.

 

Lots of great people around, though, and many have struggling math students they have been able to help.  Hopefully with additional info you can get some useful answers.   :grouphug:   :)

 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[mumto3girls]

Thanks everyone for your responses :)

 

Started using ACE Paces, similar to CLE I think. Too boring, too much on one page, had tears most days. 

We switched to Singapore during her 2nd grade year and began with 1A and are now on 6A. 

 

She needs more built in review. I use HIG, Textbook, workbook, recently added Extra Practice. But I still have to help her with all. of. it. And when a review comes up, she needs help with that also. I feel like there just isn't enough review or practice built in for her, and we are constantly shuffling between all the books. She will just about get a concept, then we move onto another concept. By the time it comes up in review, she doesn't remember it.

 

We are now having tears often in maths again. It is becoming very frustrating for her, because she isn't understanding the work, and thus we aren't getting much done in one sitting. I need a program to follow that will help her feel successful, where she is able to accomplish some  maths work each day.

 

My younger DD's don't have the same issues though, and Singapore has been working well for them. I had read that Singapore is great for students who don't need a lot of drill and kill or practice and review, this is exactly what my younger two are like with maths. They often understand maths better than I do.

 

I don't want another way to make Singapore work for her anymore. I have been trying to find ways to make it work for her for two years now. It is time to change!

 

[mumto3girls]

My3girls and Chelli, do you mind if I ask what level your DD began with MUS? I am thinking I may have to go right back to Beta or Alpha to progress through quickly, but oh the cost!!!

[Peaceful Isle]

We used math u see last year, along with our oak meadow math book.

[jgrabuskie]

I would use the free online, printable placement tests for Saxon Math and use Saxon based on her testing score. I find Saxon's introduction of 1 concept at a time with a review of previous concepts a wonderful way to keep reviewing every day vs saving review time for a specific date. I use manipulatives with Saxon 5/4 for my 3rd grader all the time. See a picture of money or want to emphasize a concept, I pull the ten rods and cubes, clocks, etc.

 

I find that the ongoing review means I am not spending a lot of time on review or quizzing to prepare for exams. At 120 lessons per a year, if a lesson is terribly complex or hard for DS, I can slow it down and review it before going on. Saxon recommends that an 80% rule be followed. If a student passes a quiz or test with 80% or higher then move forward otherwise review and reassess.

 

The first lessons with Saxon I thought were some of the longest in my life and I was skeptical of whether the change was good for DS. Now that we are further into the book, his speed has picked up and math is becoming less of a chore. I don't see it becoming favorite (could be wrong) but definitely not a subject to be dreaded. I attribute this to his growth in math confidence.

 

 

[....]

My 13 year-old has struggled with math from Day 1.  We've tried Horizons (cried - it moved way too quickly for him), CLE, Singapore and AOPS.  All of the conceptual math stuff would bring him to tears.  He actually did pretty good with CLE a few years ago and I switched him for the dumbest reason ever...(several threads on this forum where posters said it wasn't rigorous enough)  I actually would have put him back in CLE, but it looks like their math ends at Algebra 1.  Last year, I switched him to Saxon and he is doing so much better this year.  He actually knows his math facts now, too (which was a huge problem).  He didn't need a ton of conceptual stuff, he just needed repetition.  He is not going into a math field, in fact, he has massive math phobia from years of struggling with it and me choosing programs for their rigor and not stuff that fit him as a learner.  

 

MUS was our last resort.  If Saxon didn't work for him, we were going to use MUS for high school.  But, it looks like Saxon is just fine.  In fact, he really does well with all the geometry in Saxon.

[OneStepAtATime]

If she is struggling that much have you considered she might be dyscalculic? She might be better off running through the Ronit Bird materials for a few months, then moving to something with lots of built in review like CLE or Saxon. CLE can be modified so it isn't so many problems per lesson if she finds there are too many.

Edited September 13, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[BusyMom5]

Saxon works great for my child that needs more practice before moving to the next step.  IT isn't for everyone, but is great for some kids! 

[vaquitita]

I switched my daughter from Singapore to MUS last year for the same reasons. She was 8.5 at the time. We had used Singapore for two years. There was just not enough review and practice for her. MUS works wonderfully for her. She likes the mastery aspect, sticking with a topic till she is confident with it. And even though it's a mastery curriculum three worksheets and the test each week are cumulative review, so she isn't forgetting old stuff. I originally got beta for her, but ended up backing up to alpha. But we didn't do the whole thing, I just got the TM and DVD and printed worksheets off their website. She just needed some review, practice and confidence building before we started beta. You can get used teachers manuals and DVDs pretty cheaply (there's a MUS users Facebook group that has buying/selling, as well as a place to ask questions), then all you'd need to buy new is the workbook.

[My3girls]

My3girls and Chelli, do you mind if I ask what level your DD began with MUS? I am thinking I may have to go right back to Beta or Alpha to progress through quickly, but oh the cost!!!

 

I put my dd back to Gamma.  I had her do the tests until we found her weak spot then did the full lessons.  She finished it in about 4 months. We are doing the same with Delta but are running into week spots sooner so I anticipate it taking a little longer to get through.

[birchbark]

Another cheaper program to look at is Developmental Mathematics. Workbooks, mastery, very incremental.

[MatthewBlackwood]

I think our curriculum would be a perfect fit but you can also look at mathhelp.com and Mr.D Math.

 

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[Chelli]

My3girls and Chelli, do you mind if I ask what level your DD began with MUS? I am thinking I may have to go right back to Beta or Alpha to progress through quickly, but oh the cost!!!

 

We started with Epsilon because my dd had her multiplication and division down pretty well. I will still need to teach her division with a multi-digit divisor, but I'll cover that when it's reviewed in Epsilon.

 

Fractions, however, were horrible so we started there.

[mumto3girls]

Okay so today I printed off the placement tests for both MUS and Saxon, I also printed off a sample lesson of them both and looked over them with my DD.

 

She did some of the placement tests for MUS as her maths lesson for the day, and felt very competent during her maths hour :)

 

After looking at the samples, completing some placement tests, and discussing our math options, we came to the realisation that she doesn't fancy doing one topic all year long.

* She likes having variety in her maths, the way Singapore offers.

* She likes the clean white page look of Singapore and MUS - she finds Math Mammoth too cluttered.

 

I like the review that MUS appears to offer, and Saxon. But I find that Singapore does not have enough systematic review (please let me know if I am looking at it all wrong).

 

I am wondering if we should just keep plodding away with Singapore and perhaps add in MUS as a supplement, rather than switch over completely to MUS?

 

And looking at reviews for high school, MUS is not well liked. Any suggestions?

 

If only maths were straight forward :confused1:  

[OneStepAtATime]

If she doesn't want to stay with one topic all year and needs a lot of review, have you actually looked at CLE?  It does a very tight spiral review.  Linking the placement test below.  Don't stress if she places at a lower level.  That is common with CLE since it introduces a lot of concepts earlier than some other math programs.  The kids and I treated the numbers on the workbooks as levels, not grade levels.  And the program is easy to accelerate if a student is doing well with it.   If your child is testing as borderline for a level, the first light unit of each level is review of the previous level so you could run her through that light unit to fill in gaps and start her at that level.

 

https://www.clp.org/store/by_grade/21

[Chelli]

Okay so today I printed off the placement tests for both MUS and Saxon, I also printed off a sample lesson of them both and looked over them with my DD.

 

She did some of the placement tests for MUS as her maths lesson for the day, and felt very competent during her maths hour :)

 

After looking at the samples, completing some placement tests, and discussing our math options, we came to the realisation that she doesn't fancy doing one topic all year long.

* She likes having variety in her maths, the way Singapore offers.

* She likes the clean white page look of Singapore and MUS - she finds Math Mammoth too cluttered.

 

I like the review that MUS appears to offer, and Saxon. But I find that Singapore does not have enough systematic review (please let me know if I am looking at it all wrong).

 

I am wondering if we should just keep plodding away with Singapore and perhaps add in MUS as a supplement, rather than switch over completely to MUS?

 

And looking at reviews for high school, MUS is not well liked. Any suggestions?

 

If only maths were straight forward :confused1:  

 

With my oldest, I have her doing MUS Epsilon, but she also does Singapore's intensive Practice books a year behind to help keep other math topics fresh in her mind and to provide some more difficult word problems which I feel is the biggest weakness in MUS. So I guess I do the reverse of what you were talking about in the bolded, I use MUS as my main program and supplement with a bit of Singapore for review.

[shinyhappypeople]

You are *so close* to being ready for a pre-algebra course, I'd stick with Singapore for now.  If you need to hit the pause button to shore up a really weak area then do that.  Or just move through the curriculum at half speed, and print out extra review worksheets from the internet.  

[mumto3girls]

If she doesn't want to stay with one topic all year and needs a lot of review, have you actually looked at CLE?  It does a very tight spiral review.  Linking the placement test below.  Don't stress if she places at a lower level.  That is common with CLE since it introduces a lot of concepts earlier than some other math programs.  The kids and I treated the numbers on the workbooks as levels, not grade levels.  And the program is easy to accelerate if a student is doing well with it.   If your child is testing as borderline for a level, the first light unit of each level is review of the previous level so you could run her through that light unit to fill in gaps and start her at that level.

 

https://www.clp.org/store/by_grade/21

 

Thanks for the link. I looked at CLE and it looks like it might be a program that could work, however, we are in Australia and I can't find anywhere here that sells CLE. :/

[mumto3girls]

You are *so close* to being ready for a pre-algebra course, I'd stick with Singapore for now.  If you need to hit the pause button to shore up a really weak area then do that.  Or just move through the curriculum at half speed, and print out extra review worksheets from the internet.  

 

You are right! We are very close :) 

 

Rather than forking out money for another, I am contemplating sticking with Singapore US edition through 6A and 6B, and adding in multiplication/division as daily review. Her multiplication facts need work so I could use other resources I already have to help her learn those, rather than purchase MUS Gamma. Its something I could try until the end of this year anyway. 

 

Perhaps, I could potentially, draw from other resources when I feel she needs extra practice in a topic before Singapore moves on. Or even note the areas she needs to work on and somehow incorporate them into a daily 5 minute review. 

 

These are possibilities but sound like a lot of prep work on my part coordinating all that...

[mumto3girls]

Thanks so much everyone  for your responses, you have given me some things to think about. 

 

I am thinking to finish off this year, I will continue with Singapore 6A/B, and add in extra review and practice. Then perhaps next year, we will be ready to begin MUS Pre-Algebra.

 

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help :)

[jgrabuskie]

Saxon for sure. Take one of free middle school tests. Based on what the score says use that level. Saxon reviews basic math facts, 1 concept at a time, and gives a spiral review to reinforce. Google about John saxon and read about how and why this program was developed. We do the whole program and do not skip. Math is a cross between art and a foreign language for many it takes work to learn it, very few are gifted mathematics. Also, do pick up manipulative items that pertain to book you are studying as you are able to find. They made a big difference. My DS8 is younger than yours but this program has been a blessing so far. He is level 5/4. Some days math is too much so I cover the lesson over 2 days.

 

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[MatthewBlackwood]

You are right! We are very close :)

 

Rather than forking out money for another, I am contemplating sticking with Singapore US edition through 6A and 6B, and adding in multiplication/division as daily review. Her multiplication facts need work so I could use other resources I already have to help her learn those, rather than purchase MUS Gamma. Its something I could try until the end of this year anyway.

 

Perhaps, I could potentially, draw from other resources when I feel she needs extra practice in a topic before Singapore moves on. Or even note the areas she needs to work on and somehow incorporate them into a daily 5 minute review.

 

These are possibilities but sound like a lot of prep work on my part coordinating all that...

Our oldest son went from Singapore 5 straight into our own Pre-Algebra and did very well.

 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[dori123]

Have a look at Larson's Big Idea math. Based on what you described, it sounds like a great fit. Look at the 2012 version though; probably the red accelerated.

Edited March 7, 2018 by dori123

[OneStepAtATime]

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