Graduate early then ft at CC (or local state U)

[Hilltopmom]

Just thinking some different options through today.

 

Ds is in 11th this year, mixing some online high school classes with DE classes at the CC (we pay %100 tuition oop here for that).

 

Next year, he will be done homeschool hs classes & take all classes at the CC. I was going to have him do that while still considering him a hs student. $ is a limiting factor though for that many credits.

 

But, if I "graduate" him (we're in NY & I can't give him a diploma that counts for college & cannot get a letter of completion early, he would have to take the new GED to do this option), he can enroll at CC (or our local 4 year state school) as a matriculated students& get financial aid (well, if he qualifies, need to check on that).

 

Either way, he would stay home at least another year, I wouldn't be graduating him early to have him move away for school (not ready for that, but ready for full time academic classes).

 

Cons-

1. needing to take the GED/ TASC, but he is not military bound & in NY, we're kind of limited by regulations.

2. Won't be considered a freshman the following year when applying to away schools (but was leaning towards staying local for first year at 4 yr or completing AS first anyways, then transferring)

 

Pros-

1.financial aid possible to pay for full time class load that he'll be taking anyways

2. Will be taking all classes at college level, might as well be officially graduated

 

Thoughts? Thanks

Edited September 7, 2016 by Hilltopmom

[regentrude]

I personally would find the cons to outweigh the pros. Eliminating the option to go someplace as a freshman does not seem ideal, and I have issues with the GED stigma.

I also do not understand why he *cannot* take more classes at home without full time college.

Edited September 7, 2016 by regentrude

[chiguirre]

The major con would be if he wants to apply to highly selective colleges, he won't be a freshman. That could affect both his chances of getting in and any merit aid. If you're sure he's headed to a SUNY, those objections don't apply. I think that the military will consider the college credit earned as a plus, so he wouldn't be turfed out even with a GED if that does pop up on his radar later.

 

If you decide not to graduate early and can't afford tuition, another alternative is CLEP testing. The SUNYs accept a lot of CLEPs for credit so you could have him study using Coursera or EdX or MIT OCW, etc. and then use the CLEPs for credit.

[Hilltopmom]

He "could" take more classes at home, but will be done everything he needs to do for high school, so the classes he plans to take are all college level. We could pay for him to take high quality homeschool highschool courses online again, but if I'm paying oop, I'd prefer it be for college credit if he's able to. (No AP testing locations here)

 

He may wind up having to take the GED anyways to go to a SUNY, as the 2 easiest options to "graduate" as a NY homeschooler are: GED or letter from super saying they met high school equivalent & our super has already said she isn't sure about giving that letter & expects homeschoolers in her district to take the GED.

 

I'd forgotten about CLEP. Those are an option, as we can test at SUNY here.

 

It would be so much easier to plan if he knew for sure where he wants to go & what he wants to do ;)

[Hilltopmom]

We may not qualify for financial aid at the CC or SUNY anyways, in which case, I would not graduate him early. But, as I said, he may still need the GED either way. (NY is lame)

[regentrude]

He "could" take more classes at home, but will be done everything he needs to do for high school, so the classes he plans to take are all college level. We could pay for him to take high quality homeschool highschool courses online again, but if I'm paying oop, I'd prefer it be for college credit if he's able to. (No AP testing locations here)

 

Why pay? He can study as much as he wants for completely free - there are so many resources.

I guess my take on education is just different...

My DS takes college courses, but I teach at home several that we can do much better than the local university. Just becasue it is at a college does not mean it is superior to my home education. Our calculus course is a LOT better than calc 1 at the STEM uni.

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by regentrude

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's our plan too for very similar reasons.  We are in NY.

 

 

[Hilltopmom]

Why pay? He can study as much as he wants for completely free - there are so many resources.

I guess my take on education is just different...

My DS takes college courses, but I teach at home several that we can do much better than the local university. Just becasue it is at a college does not mean it is superior to my home education. Our calculus course is a LOT better than calc 1 at the STEM uni.

 

I do get what you're saying :)

 

He does do a lot on his own (programming,robotics, historical re enacting stuff, etc).

 

But although I was a Bio major & teacher, I've got littles at home & need him to take his science, math, English at the college next year. As long as he's doing that, he may as well knock out some gen eds, I figure, for credit.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Hilltopmom

[MarkT]

Why pay? He can study as much as he wants for completely free - there are so many resources.

I guess my take on education is just different...

My DS takes college courses, but I teach at home several that we can do much better than the local university. Just becasue it is at a college does not mean it is superior to my home education. Our calculus course is a LOT better than calc 1 at the STEM uni.

 

There are a fair amount MOOCs that could help with this and the Great Courses which are relatively cheap.

The biggest issue is a self discipline - your student will need that to be successful in these type classes.

 

Rolling your own course is difficult for most folks.

[Hilltopmom]

Yea, he's done some MOOCS & lots of Great Courses, he's just ready to move on

[MarkT]

Yea, he's done some MOOCS & lots of Great Courses, he's just ready to move on

Does your NY CC have:

http://www.hvcc.edu/catalog/admissions/24hrprogram.html

 

(I have relatives close to this CC)

[elegantlion]

I did graduate ds a year early because DE was not free and we qualify for the Pell grant. It was the best decision for us at the time. However, he wants to transfer as his current university does not offer the major that he currently wants (we knew this was a possibility). 

 

If $ had not been a huge factor for us, I would have continued him as a DE homeschooler and given him that extra year to gain college experience, get better focused on a major, and apply as a freshman to a different school. He's starting transfer applications and I am already seeing scholarships he won't qualify for as a transfer student. 

[8filltheheart]

You changed points midstream. Regentrude's suggestion was dismissed as "he is ready to move on." If you want confirmation bc early graduation is what both you and he want, you simply need to make a decision and know exactly what that means.

 

If you want to explore alternatives to early graduation that don't cost a lot, there are numerous options. Fwiw, I have to echo Regnetrude and say that it is possible to complete many advanced courses at home. (MIT Opencourseware, Couresera, Teaching Company lectures, private tutors, etc are all viable options.)

 

Fwiw, we do not graduate our advanced students early. We have also have to pay 100% of their DE costs. I totaled up our college jr's DE costs at one point; I don't remember exactly any more, but I am thinking it was around $8000 in total for some thing like 9 200 and 300 level courses. (He took math and science DE bc he had surpassed AP level courses, but he took all other subjects at home.) But, he is now attending college on full scholarship. So, in terms of rate of return, not graduating early, applying as a very strong, advanced freshman paid off bc while those DE classes were expensive, their costs are a fraction of 4 yr degree.

 

Our POV is the stronger their high school background, the more competitive for scholarships. It takes hours of researching colleges and merit opportunities, but the pay of can be huge.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I understand part of the stress is not just the college stuff, but the high school diploma stuff.  Yes, lots of homeschooled kids get into college without an accredited school granting them a diploma, but in NY that is tricky and at least I do not want to rule New York schools out because of the affordability factor.  I know there are scholarships and all that, but at this point I cannot predict how my kid will fare with all of that, and it's a little scary to just focus on that as an option.  I am 100% sure he can go to the local very affordable CC and transfer and do well in the field he is interested in.  I have no idea about the other options. 

[Guest]

If he is ready to move on, is living away from home in an early college program instead of enrolling as a freshman under consideration?

[Hilltopmom]

If he is ready to move on, is living away from home in an early college program instead of enrolling as a freshman under consideration?

No, he'll still live at home. Just CC ft (or maybe the local SUNY full time)

[Hilltopmom]

Does your NY CC have:

http://www.hvcc.edu/catalog/admissions/24hrprogram.html

 

(I have relatives close to this CC)

Our CC doesn't offer that, but I do know about it (we used to live very close to HVCC). He may take a few classes through them online, & just lab science in person at the local CC. Great deal. Edited September 8, 2016 by Hilltopmom

[Hilltopmom]

You changed points midstream. Regentrude's suggestion was dismissed as "he is ready to move on." If you want confirmation bc early graduation is what both you and he want, you simply need to make a decision and know exactly what that means.

 

If you want to explore alternatives to early graduation that don't cost a lot, there are numerous options. Fwiw, I have to echo Regnetrude and say that it is possible to complete many advanced courses at home. (MIT Opencourseware, Couresera, Teaching Company lectures, private tutors, etc are all viable options.)

 

Fwiw, we do not graduate our advanced students early. We have also have to pay 100% of their DE costs. I totaled up our college jr's DE costs at one point; I don't remember exactly any more, but I am thinking it was around $8000 in total for some thing like 9 200 and 300 level courses. (He took math and science DE bc he had surpassed AP level courses, but he took all other subjects at home.) But, he is now attending college on full scholarship. So, in terms of rate of return, not graduating early, applying as a very strong, advanced freshman paid off bc while those DE classes were expensive, their costs are a fraction of 4 yr degree.

 

Our POV is the stronger their high school background, the more competitive for scholarships. It takes hours of researching colleges and merit opportunities, but the pay of can be huge.

I admit I'm jumping around- trying to think all this stuff through outloud, with help :)

[Hilltopmom]

I understand part of the stress is not just the college stuff, but the high school diploma stuff. Yes, lots of homeschooled kids get into college without an accredited school granting them a diploma, but in NY that is tricky and at least I do not want to rule New York schools out because of the affordability factor. I know there are scholarships and all that, but at this point I cannot predict how my kid will fare with all of that, and it's a little scary to just focus on that as an option. I am 100% sure he can go to the local very affordable CC and transfer and do well in the field he is interested in. I have no idea about the other options.

NY regs, yes. Gives additional points to ponder & figure out.

 

He'd love a few certain pricey Us, still in NY, that still require a GED or letter from super (have already talked to them).

He's also looking at SUNYs, that definately require the letter or GED. Since I've recently discussed the letter with our super & she was iffy, I'm no longer counting on getting one.

 

All this stuff makes my head hurt ;)

[Guest]

Does the super know you well enough to be iffy on his record?

 

Here the high school admin is encouraging grad in 3, but that does a disservice to those who need a more selective U or who would benefit from AP level coursework.

[Hilltopmom]

Does the super know you well enough to be iffy on his record?

 

Here the high school admin is encouraging grad in 3, but that does a disservice to those who need a more selective U or who would benefit from AP level coursework.

He's the first kid in our district to graduate since she has been super (almost a decade, but small rural area without a lot of homeschoolers). She knows his record but does not necessarily feel comfortable for "any" homeschooled kid writing a letter, regardless of his academic record.

 

She wasn't iffy about writing a letter based on his coursework, she admitted its more than adequate, she's iffy about writing the letters at all, for anyone. She thinks that since kids are not in ps, they need to take the GED. (Yes, we had the " he's not dropping out, I don't think he should heed to take the GED discussion). She did say she would consider writing it, but I'm not counting on it after talking to her.

 

I wish super's were required to write the letter if we met all the regs plus through grade 12. But since it's optional for them, she may opt not to.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Hilltopmom

[Hilltopmom]

After thinking about all this, I'm back to leaning towards keeping him as a 12th grader next year, doing mostly or all DE & then either doing the GED or getting our letter, if we can.

I don't want to close those " freshman" doors if we don't have to.

 

Btw- thank you all. I only have a few families around here with older kids & most go off to private Christian colleges that accept a homeschool diploma. So, people to think through other options with is invaluable!

Edited September 8, 2016 by Hilltopmom

[SparklyUnicorn]

Our CC doesn't offer that, but I do know about it (we used to live very close to HVCC). He may take a few classes through them online, & just lab science in person at the local CC. Great deal.

 

I live near (enough to) HVCC.  The problem is I'd have to pay for that all out of pocket.  Overall the program would cost me thousands. 

 

The only low cost options for DE around here involve courses offered at the high school.  And since they don't allow part time high school enrollment that isn't available to us.

[SparklyUnicorn]

OH not to mention all that 24 credit thing really is is a GED earned another way.  It is basically the same piece of paper in the end.  It's only an equivalency and not an actual high school diploma.  So the choice is take a free test that gives you an equivalency or pay thousands for a piece of paper that gives you an equivalency. 

 

 

[Hilltopmom]

HVCC also has very low cost online DE classes for homeschoolers, but a limited selection. They are only $50ish per credit hour.

[SparklyUnicorn]

HVCC also has very low cost online DE classes for homeschoolers, but a limited selection. They are only $50ish per credit hour.

 

Uh yeah except when I contacted them about that they told me I'd need someone from my district to sign off on it.  Problem is I do not live in the district and my district has their own arrangement with the local CC (which is only that they offer courses at the high school for college credit). 

 

So I don't know if I could get someone to sign off on that.  Probably not.  My district doesn't even really respond to my paperwork.  They don't follow the regs.  Another reason I cannot count on them for a letter or something like that.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Regarding that HVCC 24 credit option/program, someone told me one has to pay for that all up front.  Can't find anything to verify if that is true, but more than one person told me that.

 

Also, there is nothing special about the HVCC thing.  You really can do that all on your own using whatever CC.  You need to configure the course of study to match what they'd consider enough to satisfy equivalency.  Equivalency is either the 24 credits spread out (english, math, science, history) or the TASC.   Those are two ways to gain equivalency and they are both granted equivalency diplomas.  The 24 credit option isn't an actual diploma.  It's an equivalency same as the TASC.  HVCC does not grant a high school diploma.  They will just forward your info to the state for the equivalency determination.  That's it.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2016 by SparklyUnicorn

[Hilltopmom]

Uh yeah except when I contacted them about that they told me I'd need someone from my district to sign off on it. Problem is I do not live in the district and my district has their own arrangement with the local CC (which is only that they offer courses at the high school for college credit).

 

So I don't know if I could get someone to sign off on that. Probably not. My district doesn't even really respond to my paperwork. They don't follow the regs. Another reason I cannot count on them for a letter or something like that.

Hmm, that's interesting. My friends kids are taking some online thru HVCC, the ones for highschool home schoolers, I'll ask her if her district signed anything.

 

But yea, the 24 credit option isn't a good way to handle diploma reqs.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Hilltopmom

[SparklyUnicorn]

Hmm, that's interesting. My friends kids are taking some online thru HVCC, the ones for highschool home schoolers, I'll ask her if her district signed anything.

 

But yea, the 24 credit option isn't a good way to handle diploma reqs.

 

I contacted the person who deals with homeschoolers and that is what she told me.  I don't even know what thing is supposed to be signed and by whom.  I don't live in the city that HVCC is located in so I am not even sure if under any circumstance we could take advantage of that. 

 

There is a school that supposedly does allow any high schooler in NY to take their courses including on-line at a highly reduced rate.  That's Genesee CC.  I may look into that but we would be limited to on-line because they are way too far for us.

[Hilltopmom]

You can get the reduced rate at HVCC, any student in NY, not just local ones. We're a few hours away, my friend whose kids are doing it.

[Guest]

I always hear about stigma with a GED but have never experienced it myself, as someone with one. The difference between a younger student testing and, say, a forty year old getting one is worlds apart. A generation ago it may have held some less cache than a diploma, but these days it is immaterial. It's not held me back at three colleges in various states and multiple jobs, including a direct appointment by the governor of our state to a board.

 

I personally found testing out and attending a community college for a bit before transfering was a great choice for me. It also eliminated any drama of having met or not met various high school requirements in various states. An ACT, SAT, high school exit exam, and GED/equivalency worked beautifully at mid range colleges. For highly competitive university it wont work for a freshman unless test scores and portfolio are exceptional, but armed with solidly good scores and those documents served me very well.

 

I know you're agonizing over this son and I hope you guys hit a sweet spot in his choices for finding the very best fit. It is highly individual!

 

ETA - autocorrect typo fix ;)

Edited September 8, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[SparklyUnicorn]

You can get the reduced rate at HVCC, any student in NY, not just local ones. We're a few hours away, my friend whose kids are doing it.

 

I'm going to look into that.  I need to figure out who is supposedly supposed to sign what.  That would certainly save me some money. 

 

It would be about an hour one way by bus for my kid, but he is interested in going there and wouldn't mind that. 

[MarkT]

Our CC doesn't offer that, but I do know about it (we used to live very close to HVCC). He may take a few classes through them online, & just lab science in person at the local CC. Great deal.

read the first part of this

http://www.acces.nysed.gov/hse/college-credit-and-out-state-testing

 

Does not appear to be tied to a particular college. It is a NYS program.

There are some strings attached before age 19.

 

Might be worth asking someone about it (even ask HVCC folks).