Gretchen Carlson gets $20 million + apology, her abuser walks away with $40 million

[umsami]

I'm really happy for her.  She stood up to a serial abuser, in an abusive corporate culture, and won!

 

But it bugs me to no end that her wonderful settlement is half that of her abuser.

 

Am I the only one?

[Sneezyone]

I'm really happy for her.  She stood up to a serial abuser, in an abusive corporate culture, and won!

 

But it bugs me to no end that her wonderful settlement is half that of her abuser.

 

Am I the only one?

 

Reports have it that Ailes is paying part of it.

 

It does make Greta Van Susteren's blind support of Ailes look...premature.

[Annie G]

Reports have it that Ailes is paying part of it.

 

It does make Greta Van Susteren's blind support of Ailes look...premature.

 

Wonder what the deal is with Greta's devotion to Ailes?! I read today that Greta has exercised a contract option and is no longer with Fox. 

[Sneezyone]

Wonder what the deal is with Greta's devotion to Ailes?! I read today that Greta has exercised a contract option and is no longer with Fox. 

 

No clue but it is very odd.  She went waaaay out on a limb to defend him and it just got sawed off.

[Pam in CT]

Reports have it that Ailes is paying part of it.

 

It does make Greta Van Susteren's blind support of Ailes look...premature.

 

 

She left this afternoon.  Rather... abruptly (won't be doing tonight's show).  Curious, that.

 

 

 

Ailes' 2x payout irritates me too, but I'm cautiously optimistic that this whole sequence will move the mark an itty bitty bit on both the habitual abuse of mediation clauses and also to put a price tag on chronic corporate culture.  (Did you read any of the testimony?  Not one, not two, not ten, but virtually all those pretty young things being barked at, not just by Ailes but up and down the management team, habitually, to show "more leg!" and "more lipstick!" and "arch those titties out!"  ???  

 

:svengo:

 

 

:cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  )

 

 

As sneezyone said a while ago in a different context, perhaps if nothing else it'll be harder and more expensive to get liability insurance.

[Guest]

I long had a notion that this was the case.

[zoobie]

There's nothing to like about this. I'm glad a woman was successful against an abusive employer. However, I wish that woman hadn't been a willing cog in a machine that normalizes and displays such behavior day in and day out. It's a bizarre double edged sword I guess.

[momacacia]

I have no clue what's going on as usual. Who's Ailes? Agoogling I will go.

[Guest]

I have no clue what's going on as usual. Who's Ailes? Agoogling I will go.

The head cheese at Fox News Network. Gretchen Carlson was one of the beautiful, female morning news anchors for several years.

 

I always wondered why the pretty female anchors seemed to come and go, while Doocy and Kilmead (male anchors) remained. I often thought there was something nefarious going on there.

[Annie G]

The head cheese at Fox News Network. Gretchen Carlson was one of the beautiful, female morning news anchors for several years.

 

I always wondered why the pretty female anchors seemed to come and go, while Doocy and Kilmead (male anchors) remained. I often thought there was something nefarious going on there.

 

I can't for the life of me figure out how Kilmeade remains employed there. He's super annoying...a real jerk. 

[Amira]

Even if he paid all of her settlement (his lawyer is saying he is paying none of it), it still would be horribly wrong.

 

We shall see if this changes the culture at all at Fox News.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

She left this afternoon.  Rather... abruptly (won't be doing tonight's show).  Curious, that.

 

 

 

Ailes' 2x payout irritates me too, but I'm cautiously optimistic that this whole sequence will move the mark an itty bitty bit on both the habitual abuse of mediation clauses and also to put a price tag on chronic corporate culture.  (Did you read any of the testimony?  Not one, not two, not ten, but virtually all those pretty young things being barked at, not just by Ailes but up and down the management team, habitually, to show "more leg!" and "more lipstick!" and "arch those titties out!"  ???  

 

:svengo:

 

 

:cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  )

 

 

As sneezyone said a while ago in a different context, perhaps if nothing else it'll be harder and more expensive to get liability insurance.

Speaking of female reporters' outfits, it always annoys me to no end about the mini skirts and stilletto heels which to me look very unprofessional. I have always suspected that network news has reuqested of female reportors to look like vixens instead of professional Walter Cronkite like reporters.

 

Women can look very beautiful and sexy and professional in knee length skirts and 2 inch pumps IMHO! Think Audrey Hepburn.

[mathnerd]

 Not one, not two, not ten, but virtually all those pretty young things being barked at, not just by Ailes but up and down the management team, habitually, to show "more leg!" and "more lipstick!" and "arch those titties out!"  ???  

I never thought about this consciously, but, it has always been on the back my mind - that many of the popular female anchors and reporters were showing parts of their bodies that should not be seen on news programs and discussions. I am now reading more about how this network was run and after seeing how successful it has been for the past 20 years, I am appalled that this formula seems to have worked in American broadcasting so well for so long. I am glad that Rupert Murdoch's son's intervened and decided to clean up the network. At least, now, the bosses will think twice if someone complains about harassment at that network. This lawsuit and the network's apology has set a good precedent for women working for Fox.

Edited September 7, 2016 by mathnerd

[Katy]

I never thought about this consciously, but, it has always been on the back my mind - that many of the popular female anchors and reporters were showing parts of their bodies that should not be seen on news programs and discussions. I am now reading more about how this network was run and after seeing how successful it has been for the past 20 years, I am appalled that this formula seems to have worked in American broadcasting so well for so long. I am glad that Rupert Murdoch's son's intervened and decided to clean up the network. At least, now, the bosses will think twice if someone complains about harassment at that network. This lawsuit and the network's apology has set a good precedent for women working for Fox.

 

It's not as if Fox is the only channel that does this.  Even the network morning shows push women out for younger ones, and put them in stilettos that would look completely wrong at that time of day on the street.

[mathnerd]

It's not as if Fox is the only channel that does this.  Even the network morning shows push women out for younger ones, and put them in stilettos that would look completely wrong at that time of day on the street.

I agree - I will even include Financial news networks - why show cleavage while discussing the stock market?

[redsquirrel]

Even if he paid all of her settlement (his lawyer is saying he is paying none of it), it still would be horribly wrong.

 

We shall see if this changes the culture at all at Fox News.

 

Yeah, his lawyer wants people to know that Ailes isn't paying a penny. And he has hired the same lawyer who took down Gawker media and is considering going after New York Magazine for publishing stories about Ailes

 

 

I never thought about this consciously, but, it has always been on the back my mind - that many of the popular female anchors and reporters were showing parts of their bodies that should not be seen on news programs and discussions. I am now reading more about how this network was run and after seeing how successful it has been for the past 20 years, I am appalled that this formula seems to have worked in American broadcasting so well for so long. I am glad that Rupert Murdoch's son's intervened and decided to clean up the network. At least, now, the bosses will think twice if someone complains about harassment at that network. This lawsuit and the network's apology has set a good precedent for women working for Fox.

 

 

It wasn't just Ailes. there have been many stories coming out of upper management expecting 'extra special attention' from  women employees. Some of them involve walking in on producers receiving ....well, I'm not going to write what people are saying they saw... but there are  women who have been sexually abused at Fox who were not abused by Ailes. 

 

And people have known and covered up what he has done for decades. Ailes worked on Nixon's campaign back in 1968, and then the campaign was over, Nixon wouldn't hire Ailes to work in the white house because he was known to be predatory and abusive towards women. Nixon didn't want to have him near his staff or his family.

 

All the people who were complicate in Ailes behaviour and worked to keep staff in line are still working at Fox. I'm not sure how much is going to change. All of his people still run the place.

 

And Murdoch and his family knew. They couldn't not know. They might not have known specifics, but they knew Ailes' reputation. The ONLY reason they let him go is that Carleson had recorded him. She had him dead to rights and there was no way they would pretend it didn't happen. If she hadn't recorded him, they would be ripping her apart on Fox right now.

 

 

and Greta Van Susteren is leaving because she is loyal to Ailes.  She had a 'key man' clause in her contract, meaning that she came to work there for Ailes and had the option of getting out of her contract if Ailes left.  She took that option.  She offered to renegotiate her contract, to get a big raise to stay, but Fox said no

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/06/media/greta-van-susteren-leaving-fox-news/

 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by redsquirrel

[Lady Florida.]

Ailes might be paying part of it, but with a $40 million dollar exit package and only paying part of the settlement, he isn't exactly being hit where it hurts. And he still gets to advise a presidential candidate on the side.

 

 

I can't for the life of me figure out how Kilmeade remains employed there. He's super annoying...a real jerk. 

 

Doocy's no prize either. Well, I guess he is to Fox, but...

 

We shall see if this changes the culture at all at Fox News.

 

It seems like Murdoch's sons actually do want to make positive changes but we'll have to wait and see. They're not exactly young and time will tell how far those apples fell from the tree.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Lady Florida.

[mathnerd]

there have been many stories coming out of upper management expecting 'extra special attention' from  women employees. Some of them involve walking in on producers receiving ....well, I'm not going to write what people are saying they saw... but there are  women who have been sexually abused at Fox who were not abused by Ailes. 

 

...

 

She had him dead to rights and there was no way they would pretend it didn't happen. If she hadn't recorded him, they would be ripping her apart on Fox right now.

:ack2:  This shows that I live a sheltered life where I have convinced myself that these things only happen in a 3rd world country with no rights for women. This also shows that I need to spend more time on google reading all about the harassment at Fox. 

 

And I think that Carlson was smart and brave - and that Greta should have known about the abuse if it was happening everywhere.

 

 

ETA: After googling more, this is what I understand - Gretchen Carlson would be mocked as a disgruntled employee looking for a payout right now on air on Fox, if it had not been for the fact that she possessed one important thing that is lacking in most sexual harassment lawsuits - Evidence. She used her iPhone and recorded her creepy boss since 2014 - Fox's "iconic leader" would have used other women like Greta and his wife (he tried!) to boost his case that he was a decent man and would have continued in his role forever.

Edited September 7, 2016 by mathnerd

[redsquirrel]

Ailes might be paying part of it, but with a $40 million dollar exit package and only paying part of the settlement, he isn't exactly being hit where it hurts. And he still gets to advise a presidential candidate on the side.

 

 

 

Doocy's no prize either. Well, I guess he is to Fox, but...

 

 

It seems like Murdoch's sons actually do want to make positive changes but we'll have to wait and see. They're not exactly young and time will tell how far those apples fell from the tree.

 

He isn't paying any of it. None.  It is all coming from Fox news.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/07/business/media/fox-news-roger-ailes-gretchen-carlson-sexual-harassment-lawsuit-settlement.html?_r=0

 

"Specialists in employment law described the $20 million payout to Ms. Carlson — a figure confirmed by a person briefed on the agreement — as among the largest-known settlements for a single-plaintiff sexual harassment suit. (Mr. Ailes, who received $40 million from Fox as part of his exit agreement, is not paying any portion of the settlement.)

Fox has also settled with at least two other women who came forward with complaints about Mr. Ailes, the person said."

 

 

 

 

:ack2:  This shows that I live a sheltered life where I have convinced myself that these things only happen in a 3rd world country with no rights for women. This also shows that I need to spend more time on google reading all about the harassment at Fox. 

 

And I think that Carlson was smart and brave - and that Greta should have known about the abuse if it was happening everywhere.

 

 

ETA: After googling more, this is what I understand - Gretchen Carlson would be mocked as a disgruntled employee looking for a payout right now on Fox, if it had not been for the fact that she possessed one important thing that is lacking in most sexual harassment lawsuits - Evidence. She used her iPhone and recorded the creepy boss since 2014 - Fox's "iconic leader" would have used other women like Greta and his wife (he tried!) to boost his case that he was a decent man and would have continued in his role forever.

 

 

Lol, you really don't have to spend any time reading about it. It was pretty gross and upsetting.

 

But, if you are interested read at New York Magazine. They have a writer Gabriel Sherman, who wrote a book about Ailes called "The Loudest Voice in the Room".  Apparently Ailes had him followed, had his people do oppo research on him etc..just for writing a book about him.  Sherman says that he heard rumors of abuse, but never got confirmation. But, when Carlson came forward, plenty of people contacted Sherman to tell their story.

 

http://nymag.com/author/Gabriel%20Sherman/

[Pam in CT]

re Ailes' next move:

Yeah, his lawyer wants people to know that Ailes isn't paying a penny. And he has hired the same lawyer who took down Gawker media and is considering going after New York Magazine for publishing stories about Ailes.

I never read Gawker and haven't followed what happened there, but I expect Gabriel Sherman will be OK.  He's been the breaking reporter at every stage of this story as it developed, and he well understood the nature of the fight he chose to take on, and the fighter... Just as Carlson herself took all the time and precautions she needed to gather watertight taped evidence and pick out a targeted legal strategy (Ailes as an individual rather than Fox as a business), I expect Sherman also has crossed his t's at every juncture.

 

 

...

It wasn't just Ailes. there have been many stories coming out of upper management expecting 'extra special attention' from  women employees. Some of them involve walking in on producers receiving ....well, I'm not going to write what people are saying they saw... but there are  women who have been sexually abused at Fox who were not abused by Ailes. 

 

And people have known and covered up what he has done for decades. Ailes worked on Nixon's campaign back in 1968, and then the campaign was over, Nixon wouldn't hire Ailes to work in the white house because he was known to be predatory and abusive towards women. Nixon didn't want to have him near his staff or his family.

 

All the people who were complicate in Ailes behaviour and worked to keep staff in line are still working at Fox. I'm not sure how much is going to change. All of his people still run the place.

 

And Murdoch and his family knew. They couldn't not know. They might not have known specifics, but they knew Ailes' reputation. The ONLY reason they let him go is that Carleson had recorded him. She had him dead to rights and there was no way they would pretend it didn't happen. If she hadn't recorded him, they would be ripping her apart on Fox right now.

....

 

No, it wasn't just Ailes.  If it were possible to contain the issue just to Ailes, James & Lachlan Murdoch surely would have chosen that (far easier and cheaper) route.  But more than twenty women, including Megan Kelly, stepped forward to testify to the Paul Weiss investigators, making very clear that that the tone might be set at the top but it pervaded the whole organizational culture:

 

 

The fact that these incidents of harassment were so common may have contributed to why no one at Fox came forward or filed a lawsuit until now. Ailes’s attitudes about women permeated the very air of the network, from the exclusive hiring of attractive women to the strictly enforced skirts-and-heels dress code to the “leg cam†that lingers on female panelists’ crossed legs on air. It was hard to complain about something that was so normalized. Other senior executives harassed women, too. “Anyone who claimed there was a hostile work environment was seen as a complainer,†says a former Fox employee who says Ailes harassed her. “Or that they can’t take a joke.â€

 

$20 million is a big payout, but it's frankly a drop in the bucket for Fox whose annual profits have > $1 billion for the last few years.  IMO the bigger news IMO was that the payout came not (as most do) tied to a gag order prohibiting Carlson from ever again speaking on the matter, but by a public statement from Fox:

 

"We sincerely regret and apologize for the fact that Gretchen was not treated with the respect and dignity that she and all of our colleagues deserve,â€

 

which is as close to an explicit acknowledgement of what happened as I've ever seen from any company that's ever been a part of such dramas.  And she's still talking, so evidently there's no gag order.  

 

That, to my mind, is what makes this harassment case different from all other harassment cases, and why I am cautiously optimistic that it may move the mark a little bit for the future in which my daughters have to make their way.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Pam in CT

[redsquirrel]

re Ailes' next move:

I never read Gawker and haven't followed what happened there, but I expect Gabriel Sherman will be OK.  He's been the breaking reporter at every stage of this story as it developed, and he well understood the nature of the fight he chose to take on, and the fighter... Just as Carlson herself took all the time and precautions she needed to gather watertight taped evidence and pick out a targeted legal strategy (Ailes as an individual rather than Fox as a business), I expect Sherman also has crossed his t's at every juncture.

 

 

No, it wasn't just Ailes.  If it were possible to contain the issue just to Ailes, James & Lachlan Murdoch surely would have chosen that (far easier and cheaper) route.  But more than twenty women, including Megan Kelly, stepped forward to testify to the Paul Weiss investigators, making very clear that that the tone might be set at the top but it pervaded the whole organizational culture:

 

 

$20 million is a big payout, but it's frankly a drop in the bucket for Fox whose annual profits have > $1 billion for the last few years.  IMO the bigger news IMO was that the payout came not (as most do) tied to a gag order prohibiting Carlson from ever again speaking on the matter, but by a public statement from Fox:

 

which is as close to an explicit acknowledgement of what happened as I've ever seen from any company that's ever been a part of such dramas.  And she's still talking, so evidently there's no gag order.  

 

That, to my mind, is what makes this harassment case different from all other harassment cases, and why I am cautiously optimistic that it may move the mark a little bit for the future in which my daughters have to make their way.

 

I agree that Gabriel Sherman should be just fine. When I heard that Ailes was going after him, I sort of laughed and wondered if he actually thought Sherman's work hadn't been lawyered to an inch of it's life before being published.  His work comes across as level headed and solid.  He hasn't been sued yet, and no one is calling him a liar....including the Murdochs.

 

And I didn't know Carlson didn't have to sign a gag order. I just assumed she did.  That is, frankly, amazing.  I hope she blabs her darn head off. I've never liked her work and honestly don't have any respect for her as a journalist, but that is an entirely separate issue from this. I hope she is able to move on with her professional life with her head held high.

 

And I just lol'd at their 'apology'.  Being treated with disrespect? Is that what we are calling it these days? I had a coworker keep using my milk that I brought in for tea.  That was disrespectful.  Telling someone that they have to have sex with you in order to keep your job is criminal, not disrespectful. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pam in CT]

re public "statement" vs "apology"

 

I agree that Gabriel Sherman should be just fine. When I heard that Ailes was going after him, I sort of laughed and wondered if he actually thought Sherman's work hadn't been lawyered to an inch of it's life before being published.  His work comes across as level headed and solid.  He hasn't been sued yet, and no one is calling him a liar....including the Murdochs.

 

And I didn't know Carlson didn't have to sign a gag order. I just assumed she did.  That is, frankly, amazing.  I hope she blabs her darn head off. I've never liked her work and honestly don't have any respect for her as a journalist, but that is an entirely separate issue from this. I hope she is able to move on with her professional life with her head held high.

 

And I just lol'd at their 'apology'.  Being treated with disrespect? Is that what we are calling it these days? I had a coworker keep using my milk that I brought in for tea.  That was disrespectful.  Telling someone that they have to have sex with you in order to keep your job is criminal, not disrespectful. 

 

:lol: to the bolded.

 

 

I agree.  That statement was no apology.

 

We talk a good deal around here, about common constructs such as "I'm sorry if my words were construed to..." (which defines the problem as *your* sensitivities rather than my words) or "I'm sorry but..." (...which launches an explanation of why what I did wrong, was actually *your* fault).  Which are not apologies.

 

The Fox statement was a bit better than those, but fell well short of apology.  FWIW, Judaism teaches that in addition to compensatory damages / reparations (like the settlement payout), we're supposed to

1. Name explicitly what we've done,

2. Acknowledge explicitly how what we did harmed the other person, and

3. Express our determination to discontinue the harmful practice in the future.

All three parts are essential, and I would say that the Fox statement doesn't fully meet even one.

 

But.  Here's the thing.  

 

It is true that the statement "...that Gretchen was not treated with the respect and dignity that she and all of our colleagues deserve" is only a teeny tiny, backpedaling, euphemistic, and while we're at it let's include ALL our colleagues, not just the ladies! Why limit discussion of respect just to them?  collection of watered-down weasel-words that falls far short of acknowledging what happened to her. 

 

It is also true that the statement is qualitatively different that the dig-in, double-down, come-out-swinging and smash-any-and-all-critics-to-smithereens culture that Ailes presided over, celebrated, and took national.

 

 

 

Teeny tiny steps.  The only kind we ever take.

 

 

 

 

 

 

eta omitted word

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Pam in CT