Possible 2E Issues

[AggieMama]

DD is in public 1st grade and having a horrible start to the school year. I teach at the school which makes things both harder and easier. DD struggled with attention/focus issues in kinder. We started taking her to behavioral therapy for ADD like behavior. She did improve after we started going to therapy. We took the summer off because we were out of town a lot and things began to backslide. DD started the year off her 1st grade pretty Ricky. She has yet to turn in work or really complete an assignment. She is way behind in work compared to her classmates. The school counselor is suggesting that we get a formal diagnosis for ADD so we can get 504 services. I'm a special education teacher, so I understand the advantages/disadvantages of of going that route. DH and I want DD to be able to do school on her own without a lot of accommodations. DD is a very bright girl. She is reading several grade levels ahead and is a level or two ahead in math. She did not qualify for the gifted program last year, but that could have been focus issues coming into play or the fact that the school o my accepts the top 1-2% of students into the program. At this point we are opposed to medication, and may always be. We are open to trying alternative solutions. We have started having DD drink coffee and it seems to calm her down and regulate her emotions a little better. We are going to have her start exercising before school, as walking to school is out of the question because we live 15 minutes by car away. I may also start implementing journal writing/drawing and yoga after school. I just want opinions of the sitatuion and not judgements for not medicating. We are seeing ADD like symptoms at home too. We are not sure whether this is because she is bored or actual ADD. Homeschool is not an option at this point because of money. We are working on ways to remedy this at the moment and try to bring her home next year or the year after. I don't want her time at school to be miserable and it seems like it is turning into that. The school is a pro-drug them school and will only differentiate the curriculum if students first show their capabilities.

[wapiti]

If you haven't had any evaluations, that would be the place to start (typically, IQ testing with a psych who has some experience with 2e, OT testing for sensory stuff, at least a basic checkup with a developmental optometrist, etc.).  There are plenty of issues that can be co-morbid with ADD or overlap or look like ADD that might need to be addressed in a different way.  Until you can get a firmer handle on the symptoms via evals, it's hard to come up with targeted ways to address them.

 

FWIW, I would consider coffee to be a more "natural" form of medicating.  There may also be an entire world of nutritional angles to explore.

 

As for accommodations, there are a whole lot of years between now and the end of high school.  I strongly suggest you consider possible accommodations individually while you get things sorted out.  They don't have to be forever.

Edited September 5, 2016 by wapiti

[City Mouse]

Have you started her back in therapy? If you don't want to use medication, then this is essential.

Take the offered 504 plan.

 

If you are not giving her any tools to learn how to deal with ADHD, how can she learn. It is a bit like throwing her in to the deep end of the swimming pool without giving her any swimming lessons first.

[nature girl]

Can you explain why you don't want to help her with accommodations? What are you considering the negatives to providing that help? As I mentioned in my comments on your other thread, my DD will have an aide who will help to redirect her if she gets off task, and take her on short breaks throughout the day when she needs them--These breaks will also serve as a reward for good behavior. I know this will help her so much next year, and I'm so grateful that support was offered. Not giving a child the support she needs is going to make it so much harder for her to succeed. Like Wapiti said, the accommodations wouldn't be forever, just in the beginning since she it sounds like she doesn't yet have the self-regulation skills necessary to succeed.

 

I also mentioned in your other post that, as Wapiti said, the first step is really getting an evaluation, there is no other way to know exactly what you're dealing with (giftedness, ADHD, APD, HFA, a combination...) until she's evaluated by a professional. That information will be so important in truly understanding the best way to help her.

[nature girl]

In case you're interested, here's a thread I started over a year ago on alternative treatments for ADHD: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/559461-supplements-for-adhd/?hl=%2Badhd+%2Bsupplement&do=findComment&comment=6510067

Edited September 5, 2016 by nature girl

[PeterPan]

If you get a private psych eval, will the ps use the IQ scores to put her into the gifted program?  Odds are, given how ahead she is, that she's bored stiff.  Can the ps keep her socially at grade level but give her math and reading at a more appropriate level?  

 

If you're using coffee, she may be getting too much caffeine.  I found some articles on it for my dd when we used caffeine, and the amount of coffee my dd would need, for her weight a 5'10" adult weight person was 1/2 a cup of coffee, as in 3oz.  A cup of coffee is 6oz, and 1/2 cup is 3.  When I looked into dosing my ds, the amount was so small I would have needed to take an Energem and, iirc, cut them in half.  That's not much!  So when you give her coffee, it may be at a stimulating level and more than she needs.  It can create caffeine addiction, etc.  And my dd found the caffeine wore off in about 3-4 hours, meaning your dd would possibly need a 2nd dose later.  

 

Now maybe that's enough to get her through math and LA in the morning, but I'm just saying pitfalls with it we found.  And also, although it helps, it doesn't work nearly as well as meds, not nearly.

 

To me it's concerning that she's having behavioral therapy and still having a hard time.  What materials are they using?  Have you looked at the DSM to consider whether more should be on the table?  Our ps doesn't give services to ASD1 automatically, only ASD 2/3.  I think that can skew a SN teacher's perspective.  ASD1 can be very subtle, especially on girls.  I really don't know her, I'm just agreeing with the others that it's time for evals.  

 

We waited a LONG TIME before we even tried caffeine, so I get where you're coming from.  Are there any out of the box options?  LIke if you can't stay home with her, is there ANYONE she could be with during the day?  Because, right now, it sounds like she might accomplish more with a grandma during the day and an hour of academics at night than she's accomplishing at school. 

 

I think if she's going to be in the ps, you have to use their options.  Like get your private evals, but it's the fight you have to have.  My ds has an IEP, and I've been through this to the point of exhaustion the last couple years.  They aren't interested in TRUTH one lick, only what they HAVE to provide services for.  With your dd being so advanced, I don't see that they'll provide academic services.  But OT, social thinking/social skills, etc. etc., surely there's more they could do.  But you're probably going to get closer to the truth with private evals.  Then you can go in and advocate.

 

The system is hard.  If you saw my IEP for my ds, you'd go, well, it would blow your mind.  You'd go your child should not have this.  Not enough services, classifications that you're like no way that's not where I want my kid.  That might be the kind of room you work in, the kind where you're like NOT MY KID in there.  And it's a conflict for me, because my ds is gifted with SLDs with behaviors from his ASD.  There really isn't a hot awesome placement for him in our ps.  In a certain classroom he might have more academics but not enough supports to function.  In another class, with more supports, he might not actually get the stimulating level of academics.  So I've had to hit that wall and be frustrated about that and get that.  But I think at some point we need the evals, need the data, need to know what it would REALLY take provide the level of support.  

 

Does your state have disability scholarships?  A few do, and some are better than others.  That's how we homeschool.  I use the disability scholarship to bring in services.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Are you experienced with using Zones of Regulation or the other "how does your motor run" (I forget what it's called) program?  With my ds, the new OT is using the how does your motor run stuff.  I went to Zones training, and basically, yes, you're on track with wanting to bring in things for calming!  Mindfulness, done for just a 10-15 minutes, can get a 30% bump in EF (executive function)!  So yes, you could do your yoga, some mindfulness, etc. in the morning before school.  You could do it at night.  You can do check-ins (like Zones of Reg).  You can have the school do it with the 504.  This is good stuff!  

 

My ds is not on meds.  My ds is a pistol, and moms who know him ask why he's not on meds.  He's not on meds, partly because I don't want him to lose weight, and largely because we want him to have the chance to learn these behavioral strategies.  That's with the counsel of the behaviorist, mind you.  So you're crazy to want that and it *is* an approach some professionals take.  But it seems like something needs to change in her school situation.  You don't want her bored and she does need the supports in her environment that they could give to make her more successful.

[kbutton]

It may simply be your phrasing combined with the context, but it sounds like you don't want the school version of alternative treatments for ADHD (unless you continue to use the behavioral therapy and ask for that at school). A section 504 plan is how you get alternative treatments in school as far as I know. Lots of people would give their right arm to get accommodations like that for their very bright kids with ADHD. Is your problem with the way this school uses 504 plans?

 

Are you wanting recommendations for supplements? OT? Is that what you are after? There are lots of things people here have tried at home, as nature girl linked. I hope that link has what you are looking for.

 

I do think that a better class placement would help academically, but it is very hard to argue that a child who seems to have attention problems should be in a different place. Believe me when I say I've tried to explain that boredom is not helpful with my own 2e kid. That is why he's home. Mine did turn in his work, but he just did it to get it done, not to get it right. The teacher also had free time activities to do while the rest of the class finished, which reinforced the need to hurry. Second grade in that school was largely 3/4 review, and he was a MESS. His grades went up when they hit new material at the tail end of the year (which was still easy for him), but he was still inattentive and had problems.

 

However, in addition to my son needing more appropriate academics, he still has ADHD, and the behaviors did not go away with harder academics at home. Some things got harder because he wasn't used to having to work at things. It can help the stress level to have better work, but if you are seeing ADHD behaviors at home too, she is going to need behavioral supports and the kinds of things that get put in 504 plans either way for school to work. I am assuming you accommodate her at home with behavioral and organizational support since you got her therapy (you will need to continue this and be more consistent than you want to be--it's maddening). This is why I can't really understand what would be bad about a 504 plan.

 

I am not asking to get your dander up. I am unsure what you think is appropriate and what goals you have outside of acceleration. 

 

 

[nature girl]

Yes, that's another question. Is the behavior mostly because she's bored, so that if she was more challenged she wouldn't act up? When you challenge her with math at home, is she able to sit for 20 minutes and focus on it, including 5-10 minutes on worksheets, or is getting her to focus still difficult?

 

With my DD, she's definitely worse behaved when bored, but it's not the only issue and she still needs help, regardless of the level of work she's given. Two or three weeks ago I gave her a worksheet with simple addition/subtraction problems to see how she'd do with 1st grade math, and she did a few problems and then just doodled and colored the pictures on the page. With more challenging work she's able to attend a lot better, but still not able to sit for more than 20 minutes without wanting to roll off her chair. She loves reading, so can read for a very long time, but math has always been a challenge for us, even this summer while medicated and doing work at her level (Singapore 2B now) she doesn't last all that long.

Edited September 5, 2016 by nature girl

[Heathermomster]

http://millermom.proboards.com/

 

The website I linked is filled with public school parents that advocate for their children.

 

I pretty much recommend the same thing to everyone.  Seek out a full OT evaluation to rule out issues with developmental motor and any sensory issues.  According to my children's OT, 50% of kiddos with ADD/ADHD will have motor issues.  If the reg OT suspected issues with sensory, a SIPT certified OT would need to evaluate further.  Motor issues can affect behavior too.

 

My DS is 2e with 3 SLDs and an ADHD inattentive diagnosis.  I have this information because he was tested privately by a licensed clinical psychologist that has a ton of experience with 2e kiddos.  Testing was completed in 4 hour periods over 2 days.  I suggest you follow the same route.   

 

If the NP diagnoses ADHD inattentive, seek out the services of a child psychiatrist.  DNA tests can be run on your child to determine whether certain drugs might cause issues with your child.  There are computerized tests that can actually measure attention and EF.  You could go back to the CBT and work with him/her for awhile.  My son's CBT has a ton of tricks including CogMed, BrainHQ, psycho-educational training, mindfulness meditation, and the possibility of meds.

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by Heathermomster