Another Look at A-G for those of you looking at UC's

[...................]

Can you link the online film class?  :o)  sounds good enough- I feel this is one area where I am not excited for my son to be in the secular world if at all possible!

[quark]

I'll PM you! I think a number of CCs offer online, transferable V/PA classes. One more option I'm not sure you have considered is to enroll at a few CCs (he can enroll online since he is >13). Then see if he can get into classes at CCs A, B and C for the courses he wants. That way even if CC A limits him to 2 classes, he could take a 3rd at CC B.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yeah, right? If it was 7 a-gs, I could maybe see it - one or two a year. But 15 is ludicrous.  I know that dd will have DEs too, and I expect that, plus hopefully good SAT scores and a couple of SAT-2s is going to have to be good enough.  If it isn't, there is always the transfer route.

 

I know that dd will want to take Theater Arts at the CC, which has a fantastic theater department, and may do plays there too. Since theater is her main extracurricular, I'm not really worrying about the Performing & Visual Arts requirement.

 

Frankly, I'm more concerned about the classes that she a) cares about and b) wants to do at home for maximum flexibility.  Like English.  I guess I have to assume that she, too, will get high enough SAT scores to cover the English requirement.  Hopefully that will work out for math and for English.

[quark]

 

I know that dd will want to take Theater Arts at the CC, which has a fantastic theater department, and may do plays there too. Since theater is her main extracurricular, I'm not really worrying about the Performing & Visual Arts requirement.

 

Frankly, I'm more concerned about the classes that she a) cares about and b) wants to do at home for maximum flexibility.  Like English.  I guess I have to assume that she, too, will get high enough SAT scores to cover the English requirement.  Hopefully that will work out for math and for English.

 

Definitely, but if she happens to take a CC theater class that is 3 transferable credits or more, she is probably set on the a-g front too. It really is fantastic how easily DS has fulfilled a-g through DE just by following his interests. For English, instead of the dry freshman composition course (his CC's seems dry to me, some other CCs we know sound like they have much better freshman comp courses), he is able to choose from Sci Fi, Shakespeare, Graphic Novels, Short Stories etc, all of which he has a lot of interest in and depending on the prof, not fluffy either! A good grade in freshman comp would let him get past UC's Reading & Comp requirement for graduation but not a huge issue as following his interests is definitely more important to us.

 

[crazyforlatin]

Quark, I'm assuming your DS was younger 13 yo when he took his first CC class? I think I read that our CC is only for HS kids. Are the CCs all different?

[quark]

Quark, I'm assuming your DS was younger 13 yo when he took his first CC class? I think I read that our CC is only for HS kids. Are the CCs all different?

 

He was 11 going on 12 when he started. Some CCs are open to 9th graders onwards, some only 10th onwards and some are very strict about only having 11th and 12th graders DE. Ours was not reluctant about younger students but they needed some proof that he will be ok.

[crazyforlatin]

He was 11 going on 12 when he started. Some CCs are open to 9th graders onwards, some only 10th onwards and some are very strict about only having 11th and 12th graders DE. Ours was not reluctant about younger students but they needed some proof that he will be ok.

 

Darn, we're stuck with Bay Area CCs. I would love for DD to take one class next year. Would the proof be an SAT result? I don't think a CC would care about a gold medal from the NLE. 

[quark]

We are not very far away from you. :001_smile:

 

In DS's case, the placement test results helped (placing directly into calculus and freshman comp). He wasn't interested in taking 1-2 classes. He wanted much more flexibility to choose so he had also taken the CHSPE and passed with high scores. CCs should technically only ask to see the Certificate of Proficiency from passing the CHSPE but perhaps due to his age, they also asked to see DS's CHSPE scores. I don't think anyone will want to see her SAT results although you could bring it along to see what happens. I had a binder set up with all the paperwork (PSA etc) and back up scores I could think of. No NLEs, sorry. Even with the CHSPE, which is widely accepted at CCs, we found that not every CC staff knows what it is (or even cares :unsure: ).

[Arcadia]

How do you guys plan to fulfill Performing and Visual Arts? CC?

Photography at CC. My district offers that in their high schools anyway. Besides my husband still owes me a DSLR.

 

My kids are also looking at computer graphics and music composition at CC.

[Crimson Wife]

Darn, we're stuck with Bay Area CCs. I would love for DD to take one class next year. Would the proof be an SAT result? I don't think a CC would care about a gold medal from the NLE. 

 

Foothill is supposed to be friendly towards young students, at least that's what I've heard through the grapevine.

 

Diablo Valley College gave my almost-14 y.o. no difficulties when she went to register with the CHSPE certificate. I don't know how friendly they are to young HSers who haven't yet taken the CHSPE.

[...................]

^^ How did you get her into the CHSPE that early?

[quark]

One way is to check the ungraded secondary box when registering your school with the private school affidavit. Then sign off on the CHSPE form that your student is in 10th grade.

[quark]

Foothill is supposed to be friendly towards young students, at least that's what I've heard through the grapevine.

 

Diablo Valley College gave my almost-14 y.o. no difficulties when she went to register with the CHSPE certificate. I don't know how friendly they are to young HSers who haven't yet taken the CHSPE.

 

A friend with an 8th grader in Diablo Valley College (dual enrolled) told me that they are limiting dual enrolled students to 1-2 slots maximum per section. Her DD didn't take the CHSPE and is enrolled in a music course which usually has lots of spaces open. Lab sciences meanwhile are very difficult to get into as a dual enrolled high school student.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Definitely, but if she happens to take a CC theater class that is 3 transferable credits or more, she is probably set on the a-g front too. It really is fantastic how easily DS has fulfilled a-g through DE just by following his interests. For English, instead of the dry freshman composition course (his CC's seems dry to me, some other CCs we know sound like they have much better freshman comp courses), he is able to choose from Sci Fi, Shakespeare, Graphic Novels, Short Stories etc, all of which he has a lot of interest in and depending on the prof, not fluffy either! A good grade in freshman comp would let him get past UC's Reading & Comp requirement for graduation but not a huge issue as following his interests is definitely more important to us.

 

 

That's a great point, I bet she'd love to take a Lit class at the CC at some point! I never thought of using that for a-g, I was just thinking it would have to be freshman comp. Thank you!

[amsunshine]

Geometry is self reported. It doesn't have to be a-g per se.

 

Yes, if the student takes Geometry or an integrated course that includes Geometry, you just need to self-report.  UCs will not ask for a middle school transcript.  See here.

[quark]

Linking the Why so few UC discussions? thread here just in case it helps!

[Susie in CA]

The UC's have finally realized that online learning is the wave of the future or at least part of it!  They have added and approved many online providers including G3 Online, German Online (offered by Oklahoma State) and many many more.  If you search for online you'll see that the possibilities are really expanding.  And of course searching for "Online" doesn't actually bring up all the "online" offerings since that's only searching the title of hte class or school.  However, it's a good start!

 

What!? German Online is approved. This is awesome! I did not know this. That means we are good on pretty much all our courses.

[Dmmetler]

Some of the OnlineG3 courses with writing supplement are also now A-G approved.

 

 

[Arcadia]

They have added and approved many online providers including G3 Online, German Online (offered by Oklahoma State) and many many more.

I can't find Oklahoma State when I search under course provider name or under German.

 

Link is what I use to search. So now I am confused.

https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/course?f=categories.language.name%7CGerman%3B

 

AoPS is approved from April 2016, so my oldest only have his AoPS calculus class "counted" since he finished the intermediate algebra and intro to geometry classes before a-g approval. He'll take the sat math test anyway so I am not worried.

[quark]

I can't find Oklahoma State when I search under course provider name or under German.

 

Link is what I use to search. So now I am confused.

https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/course?f=categories.language.name%7CGerman%3B

 

AoPS is approved from April 2016, so my oldest only have his AoPS calculus class "counted" since he finished the intermediate algebra and intro to geometry classes before a-g approval. He'll take the sat math test anyway so I am not worried.

 

Search home page under German Online. The page doesn't tell you which courses so I am assuming all the German levels are approved.

Edited September 6, 2016 by quark

[Crimson Wife]

^^ How did you get her into the CHSPE that early?

 

Last year I filed the PSA listing her as an "ungraded secondary" student and then we filled out the registration paperwork for the CHSPE saying that she had completed 10th grade. I don't know when I will graduate her so it's entirely possible that last year was the equivalent of 10th grade.

 

The English course she's taking this semester will validate 4 years of H.S. English. The math sequence she's taking this semester and spring will validate the math. Basically what she would need in order for me to grant her a diploma are 2 semesters foreign language, 1 semester life science, 1 semester physical science, and either SAT 2 tests or CC courses in U.S. History and World History (she hasn't decided yet whether she wants to test out vs. take classes).

 

It's difficult to predict when she'll be ready to switch to FT college. I'm going to keep listing her as "ungraded secondary" on the PSA to maximize her flexibility.

 

[quark]

AoPS is approved from April 2016, so my oldest only have his AoPS calculus class "counted" since he finished the intermediate algebra and intro to geometry classes before a-g approval. He'll take the sat math test anyway so I am not worried.

 

And even if they didn't take SAT Math 1 or 2, out of state students would have AoPS geometry and intermediate algebra too right? Why would they penalize CA students who do? These are the kind of subtle things that I think UC will not pick on. I am not an expert but honestly, with your boys' track record, any university would be exceptionally silly to pick on small things like that. There might be other reasons to admit/ reject students but picking on someone using a top notch curriculum shouldn't be one of them, whether a-g or not. I hope I am right. :001_unsure:

 

[Crimson Wife]

A friend with an 8th grader in Diablo Valley College (dual enrolled) told me that they are limiting dual enrolled students to 1-2 slots maximum per section. Her DD didn't take the CHSPE and is enrolled in a music course which usually has lots of spaces open. Lab sciences meanwhile are very difficult to get into as a dual enrolled high school student.

 

DE students don't pay tuition so it makes sense that colleges would limit slots for them.

 

[Arcadia]

Search home page under German Online. The page doesn't tell you which courses so I am assuming all the German levels are approved.

Found it :)

 

For K12, whatever is not listed means approval is pending. Then there is the approval start date per course. They had information sessions for parents about a-g when we were with CAVA.

 

Oldest is aiming for SAT German and his Saturday class has an experienced teacher doing test prep for students who are interested in SAT or AP German. So we'll see how that goes.

[quark]

Hm that's interesting.

 

I have heard that the UC will occasionally specifically ask for proof that the class was A-G approved and if you list it as having been approved and it wasn't isn't that lying? I could see that backfiring ...

 

Okay so we are approaching the end of my son's applications. I just called UC. They explained that the student may enter non a-g academic courses manually in the academic history section and select a-g categories for them but explain later that these were independent study academic courses through non a-g providers. I noticed 2 ways we can do this. One is a 550-character box (too limited to explain all of my son's courses). The other is a 550-word field for additional info (and probably where son will explain it).

[...................]

Isn't that how you entered geometry?

[quark]

My understanding is that for geometry, there is no need to explain anything about it being a-g or not. Just self report the course. And since my son finished geometry prior to high school, the 7th and 8th grade course reporting section didn't have drop down menus for a-g subject categories (because it is understood that those courses are either math or LOTE).

[...................]

I see.  This is great info, thanks!  

 

So, let's assume that the admissions officer filtered for a-g courses all being met through their software.  Would this filter you out or would these courses show as being a-g ?

[quark]

I am not sure. He hasn't submitted the application but when I click on the View Application link to see his application so far, the courses are listed with a-g subject area next to them. There is as I said, no option in that section itself to say a course is non a-g. They should be able to read my son's additional comments explaining that the academic courses taken under our homeschool are not a-g approved.

[...................]

Awesome; it's nice to know that they do indeed allow comments, and explanations.

 

If he is not admitted now, will you just continue another year and try again since he's so young?

[Roadrunner]

So theoretically we could list non a-g approved classes under a-g and then say on a separate box that requirements were satisfied through testing, which makes those classes a-g(?).

More I look at this, less I am worried. A good score on SAT, which you need anyway to get into UC, satisfies all of English. AP and SAT subject tests, which we also need to stand a chance of getting in, satisfy the rest. More I think about it, simpler this all seems.

[quark]

So theoretically we could list non a-g approved classes under a-g and then say on a separate box that requirements were satisfied through testing, which makes those classes a-g(?).

More I look at this, less I am worried. A good score on SAT, which you need anyway to get into UC, satisfies all of English. AP and SAT subject tests, which we also need to stand a chance of getting in, satisfy the rest. More I think about it, simpler this all seems.

 

Yes, I don't think it is as complicated as we feared. I don't think you even need to say that requirements were satisfied through testing because there is a page to list all the tests taken (save the very small space they provide for other info that is not already clear from the application!).

 

Please keep in mind though that we don't know yet if his application will be successful with any of the UCs. He has 2 on-campus UC classes listed on the application (DE-ed last and this year) so we are hopeful, but one never knows.

 

ETA: APs are not required.

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by quark

[quark]

Awesome; it's nice to know that they do indeed allow comments, and explanations.

 

If he is not admitted now, will you just continue another year and try again since he's so young?

 

If he isn't admitted now, he will apply next year as a transfer student (we have been talking about this and I think he really cannot wait to get to more upper division math).

 

ETA: if not admitted for 2017/18, he will take the year to finish up a couple courses required for the IGETC, possibly DE some more at UC (but carefully balance the transfer limit policy since he already will have 70 credits end of senior year) and self study/ continue with his research projects. That is much cheaper than the other option which is to add more UC DE-ing.

Edited September 7, 2016 by quark

[crazyforlatin]

Yes, I don't think it is as complicated as we feared. I don't think you even need to say that requirements were satisfied through testing because there is a page to list all the tests taken (save the very small space they provide for other info that is not already clear from the application!).

 

Please keep in mind though that we don't know yet if his application will be successful with any of the UCs. He has 2 on-campus UC classes listed on the application (DE-ed last and this year) so we are hopeful, but one never knows.

 

ETA: APs are not required.

 

 

I didn't realize your ds took classes at UC campus. 

 

Am I in the right direction by going to this website for Cal? http://extension.berkeley.edu/static/studentservices/concurrent/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=bullet&utm_campaign=concurrent_about

 

I'm hoping DD can take a language class at Cal in 8th grade.

[...................]

I'll be rooting for him!  It's not good for gifted kids to be held back, and it's so great he was able to be homeschooled!!! :hurray:

[quark]

Am I in the right direction by going to this website for Cal? http://extension.berkeley.edu/static/studentservices/concurrent/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=bullet&utm_campaign=concurrent_about

 

Just PM-ed you!

 

[quark]

I'll be rooting for him!  It's not good for gifted kids to be held back, and it's so great he was able to be homeschooled!!! :hurray:

 

:001_wub: Aw, thank you CT. Honestly, I would hold him back if I could. *I* am not ready for this. Just living on automaton mode for now with a long checklist of things to do to help him reach his dreams. But once that checklist is done, I'm going to be :willy_nilly: :crying:

 

[...................]

I'm sure!!! ((hugs)) 

[Arcadia]

A good score on SAT, which you need anyway to get into UC, satisfies all of English.

Didn't realised my oldest's June SAT score for writing and language already satisfy three years of English. We request for scores to be kept even though he will take SAT again in a few years time.

[mirabillis]

Are the online providers A-G approved, like Wilson Hill or Landry Academy? As my son is taking Algebra II & Honors Physics this year through WHA - will these be 'approved' since they are with an accredited provider?

 

Also, I signed up for Silicon Valley Online - as there was no info anywhere here of anyone with experience. While yes it is indeed A-G approved, the courses are just an aggregation of material found elsewhere on Youtube.com, other websites, etc. There are in-house made programmed quizzes & tests. But FYI.

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Are the online providers A-G approved, like Wilson Hill or Landry Academy? As my son is taking Algebra II & Honors Physics this year through WHA - will these be 'approved' since they are with an accredited provider?

 

Also, I signed up for Silicon Valley Online - as there was no info anywhere here of anyone with experience. While yes it is indeed A-G approved, the courses are just an aggregation of material found elsewhere on Youtube.com, other websites, etc. There are in-house made programmed quizzes & tests. But FYI.

 

 

See, this is what makes me crazy.  I'm supposed to put aside a carefully constructed, student-tailored learning plan in favor of a conglomeration of online resource plus some multiple choice quizzes, and that somehow will demonstrate to the UCs that my student is prepared for college???  Yeah, no thanks.

 

Luckily it seems as though there are other options, so I really appreciate you guys sharing your research & experience. Quark, I'm following your ds's application experience and rooting for him, all the way!  Can't wait to hear he got into the UC of his choice!

[Roadrunner]

Rosetta Stone is a-g approved. And the reason for a-g was to stamp quality? 🤔😳🙄

[quark]

See, this is what makes me crazy.  I'm supposed to put aside a carefully constructed, student-tailored learning plan in favor of a conglomeration of online resource plus some multiple choice quizzes, and that somehow will demonstrate to the UCs that my student is prepared for college???  Yeah, no thanks.

 

Luckily it seems as though there are other options, so I really appreciate you guys sharing your research & experience. Quark, I'm following your ds's application experience and rooting for him, all the way!  Can't wait to hear he got into the UC of his choice!

 

Right? And especially when you are using much higher quality videos (Great Courses), primary documents etc. Blows my mind too.

 

Thanks so much Rose! :001_wub:

[crazyforlatin]

Are the online providers A-G approved, like Wilson Hill or Landry Academy? As my son is taking Algebra II & Honors Physics this year through WHA - will these be 'approved' since they are with an accredited provider?

 

Also, I signed up for Silicon Valley Online - as there was no info anywhere here of anyone with experience. While yes it is indeed A-G approved, the courses are just an aggregation of material found elsewhere on Youtube.com, other websites, etc. There are in-house made programmed quizzes & tests. But FYI.

DD is taking classes both at WHA and LA, and I didn't see an A-G approval on either site. Onlineg3 has some A-G classes.

 

AoPS is an accredited provider but only A-G provider just recently, so I don't think accreditation automatically means A-G approved.

Edited September 7, 2016 by crazyforlatin

[crazyforlatin]

Rosetta Stone is a-g approved. And the reason for a-g was to stamp quality? 🤔😳🙄

Ok, now nothing makes anymore sense.

[...................]

THE SVOHS A-G approved World History course is definitely below par IMO.  BUT my son is enjoying it anyway, and his notes are full...I think he may actually learn something.  We are using to fulfill the A-G only, and get a credit.  If he actually learned a great deal of thoughtful World History, I'd be surprised.  I will only use SVOHS to fulfill a few credits, here and there, for subjects in which I know my son already has a great depth of knowledge, or subjects that I feel will be butchered no matter where he takes it except with me (economics, for example- we'd rather him read Thomas Sowell's entire library than bother with any course...)

 

And yes this is the frustration. Half of the A_G courses I see online, are a joke. Rosetta Stone itself is a joke, to me.  I've never ever met a single homeschooled kid that knew their grammar and could squeak by in conversation or translation after years of using Rosetta Stone.  

 

Chrysalis, there are better options for A-G accreditation online- G3Online looked pretty thought provoking, and PA Homeschoolers AP courses are known for their high quality thought provoking content.  

[...................]

Chrysalis, no WHA is not A-G approved. All you have to do is go to UC's A-G approved course list and look it up.  A-G has their own set of qualifications and a score of professors who look at the content of submitted courses to see that they meet their qualifications. It's all piece of beureucratic BS if you ask me....but there it is.

 

https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/institution

 

Most homeschool online providers will not bother to go through the hoops because it requires time, effort, and a dose of secularism as well.  Especially in Science and History, their courses probably won't pass unless they include evolution, humanism, etc. etc. and all the usual secular stuff.

 

However, as you know, your son can take an SAT Subject test to validate his courses.

[Arcadia]

Rosetta Stone is a-g approved. And the reason for a-g was to stamp quality? 🤔😳🙄

It is the K12 school solution that is approved, not the boxed sets. Also only Spanish I and II are approved.

 

http://www.rosettastone.com/blog/rosetta-stone-earns-university-of-california-a-g-approval/

 

"We’re happy to announce that the Rosetta Stone Spanish I and II offerings have received A-G approval from the University of California. What this means is that California’s high school students can use those products to fulfill their two-year foreign language graduation requirement."

 

http://pr.rosettastone.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=228009&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2110491

"The courses are built (module/unit/lesson) using Bloom's Taxonomy and meet the highest national standards, including fulfilling all 15 of the "power standards" identified by the University of California and satisfying at least 27 of the remaining standards from the iNACOL Standards for Quality Online Courses. To meet the University of California's A-G subject requirements, the two courses were also evaluated for and received the California Learning Resource Network (CLRN) certification, confirming they meet at least 80% of the relevant California Content Standards or Common Core State Standards."

[...................]

See, this is what makes me crazy.  I'm supposed to put aside a carefully constructed, student-tailored learning plan in favor of a conglomeration of online resource plus some multiple choice quizzes, and that somehow will demonstrate to the UCs that my student is prepared for college???  Yeah, no thanks.

 

Luckily it seems as though there are other options, so I really appreciate you guys sharing your research & experience. Quark, I'm following your ds's application experience and rooting for him, all the way!  Can't wait to hear he got into the UC of his choice!

 

 

Life isn't that straightforward. Unless you can afford Santa Clara U, or your kid is amazing enough to get into Stanford (and you can afford that), what are you to do?  This is why I am saying my goal is to balance my ideality with reality.  The reality is, my son really needs to get into CalPoly or at the minimum UC Davis to have a good shot at a decent job in his field (Comp Sci).....if that takes him taking a few dumbed down courses just to get some credit, I am not worried about it because I have built a foundation that is so strong, I think and I hope that he can stand up and speak eloquently about World History, even though this year his course is pretty lame.  

 

So my son can take 3 or 4 lame classes just to fulfill some a - g credits, or graduate 200,000.00 more in debt. :o)  That's how I see it, but I've become more and more pragmatic as time passes so maybe that is my age.  There is also, honestly a sense in which I am just trusting hte Lord for the path He has put before me.  I think it's been made clear to me that we are going to make some kind of effort to fulfill UC requirements, but not make it an idol or a complete end goal in and of itself.  So I feel pretty relaxed about it, in the end.  

 

Also, I am seeing it more and more as a mixture of things- yes he's taking a lame World History course this year, but in two years he will be taking AP Government from PA Homeschoolers. ....to me, not every thing, every year has to be perfect.  

 

I hate California UC and Cal States for this, though.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Calming Tea

[Arcadia]

Right? And especially when you are using much higher quality videos (Great Courses), primary documents etc. Blows my mind too.

It is similar to the problem we had with K12 geometry. My kid had to report in (online lessons and scanned homework) every day to a credentialed math teacher to get the high school credit for geometry from CAVA. That was many years ago so it might be different now.

 

Also the ES for OG. If it is OG transcript, my district would just take it as is.

 

Silly box checking :lol: