Another Look at A-G for those of you looking at UC's

[...................]

After strongly declaring we would not pursue fulfilling A-G requirements, we are actually on a path to do so.  I just wanted to share that a few things have made the path a little more easy this year.

 

1. AOPS is now getting all their courses A-G approved and some already are, if you take them through their academy.

2.  Silicon Valley Online High School is fully A-G approved EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT WITH A PS OR CHARTER.  It is listed just like AOPS as A-G approved and complete.   So far they have over 7 A-G approved courses, some of which are a pretty easy A (not that I would want that for every class of course as I want my son to have a deep rigorous education but to get the A-G credit, it's only 200.00 per year for these classes, and they are fully self paced! A steal!)

3.  It's actually not htat hard to take an SAT Subject Test.  My son will sit for the Biology this year, he is already registered.  He is taking Biology, and studying Biology and towards the end of the year will begin studuing the Barron's and PR SAT Subject Test Prep books.  I think, that he will be able to hit the benchmark listed on the UC site.

4.  Don't forget that if you take a PA Homeschoolers AP class, and get a 3 on the AP test, then you have satisfied the A-G requirement for that subject.

 

What I am saying is that if you really sit down and plan it out it's not that bad. For example, my son is meeting 3 A-G required classes this year and maybe four as he is taking a charter school A-G class teacher's class but we pay privately and she has said in the past they have accepted an addendum on the transcript that her class is A-G approved even through the charter but this student paid privately and passed.

 

So in 9th my son will fulfill, hopefully:

 

Biology by taking Subject test

World History by using SVOHS

One Elective by taking PA HSers AP Comp Sci and getting a 3 or better on the AP exam

And possibly one of the English LIterature years.

 

Another thing to consider, is that remember-- a certain score on the SAT fulfills ALL 3 years of either math or English. My son is extremely strong in English, so I feel very confident that he will fulfill all 3 years of A-G requirements for English just taking his regular SAT.  

 

As far as math,you have to take the SAT Subject test, and get a 520 on Level 1 or I think a 475 on Level 2... However, only a few semesters of college math (even including an algebra or pre-calc) fulfills the requirement for math, so as I recall even if he doesn't pass the SAT Subject test, if you don't get that score, you can also take community college classes.  3 classes of anything from Elementary Algebra  and up satisfies the requirement.  

 

I'm just saying that if you take one year at a time, sit down and plan out what subjects you can fulfill in which ways, it's not as crazy as it looks at first.  

 

Happy Homeschooling!

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by Calming Tea

[Ms.Ivy]

I appreciate your post... we are a few years away from high school, but we have our sights set on UC's.

[stephinsocal]

Thanks for the helpful post! BYU Independent Study has a-g approved courses; does anyone know of other providers?

[carlamom2ansnm]

Don't go and tempt me lol. I've finally resigned myself to my daughter not striving for a-g, but fulfilling requirements other ways. We've done about 1 month into a local charter school and while we could get a-g through them, it wouldn't be her doing any of the courses we have planned for her. It's been such a nightmare trying to decide what to do with all of this. 

[...................]

Thanks for the helpful post! BYU Independent Study has a-g approved courses; does anyone know of other providers?

Yes, that's right.  

Edited September 5, 2016 by Calming Tea

[yvonne]

UC Scout's courses are a-g approved & online.

[...................]

UC Scout's courses are a-g approved & online.

 

 

Be careful though, to find out if the AP courses offered by UC Scout,  if you still have to score a 3 on the exam to get the credit, not just a passing score in the class....??  We can look into that for sure.

[Arcadia]

It is the geometry requirement that is annoying but I guess one missing requirement is not going to be as bad.

 

Math and foreign language counts from 7th grade too, just that doing the SAT subject tests might be more covenient than counting.

[...................]

The UC's have finally realized that online learning is the wave of the future or at least part of it!  They have added and approved many online providers including G3 Online, German Online (offered by Oklahoma State) and many many more.  If you search for online you'll see that the possibilities are really expanding.  And of course searching for "Online" doesn't actually bring up all the "online" offerings since that's only searching the title of hte class or school.  However, it's a good start!

[...................]

It is the geometry requirement that is annoying but I guess one missing requirement is not going to be as bad.

 

Math and foreign language counts from 7th grade too, just that doing the SAT subject tests might be more covenient than counting.

There were at least 3 online providers that are now approved, including AOPS and others.  Yes, I know the Geometry was a real killer for the last two years, but your kids are so young by the time they get there, there will be even more options.  Many people also just of course opt to take CC classes to fulfill it but that's definitely, as you say, annoying.

 

However, I just saw at least 3 online providers are now approved for Geometry :o)  I'll maybe get around to listing them later....

[...................]

Hey good to know about foreign language counting, that early....

[Arcadia]

Be careful though, to find out if the AP courses offered by UC Scout, if you still have to score a 3 on the exam to get the credit, not just a passing score in the class....?? We can look into that for sure.

For lab science, they meant for a school teacher to validates the lab. In fact it is the school who puts UC Scout courses on their school transcript.

 

There was a thread about UC Scout courses not fulfilling a-g requirements for homeschoolers.

 

I emailed them a long time ago and had no reply so I didn't pursue that option.

[...................]

Yes, the UC Scout courses were, to me very iffy...especially in the area of Lab Sciences. I think the Science will have to be validated no matter what

[Peaceful Isle]

I had actually thought about my dd taking silicon valley's English course for 9th grade. I thought they were 100 a year, but maybe the price went up?

[...................]

100 per course but the courses are one semester

 

Back to the lab thing- I emailed the head of Silicon Valley high school and he profusely insisted that his a-g science courses are really approved for regular homeschoolers as long as you do the lab. He said the provide detailed instructions and it's up to the student and parent to get the kit and do them.

 

So I really wonder...maybe they don't have to be validated woth the SAT subject test.

[crazyforlatin]

Has anyone heard of NUVHS? 

 

PDF of offered courses, http://www.nuvhs.org/assets/resources/pageResources/NUVHS16_4462_Course%20List1.pdf

 

http://www.nuvhs.org/Academics/NCAA-and-UC-a-g-Approved-Courses.html

 

tuition, http://www.nuvhs.org/Admissions/Tuition.html

 

I'm just wondering what sort of results their students get on AP exams.

[quark]

CT, this is why I was confused earlier about the discussion we had about whether 12 SAT subject tests etc were needed. We are filling in the applications now and DS has listed his courses done at home, even if not a-g approved, under the a-g categories because they were all academic courses and the application didn't give him much of a choice otherwise. For science, he only reported lab sciences (they don't give any other choice in the application) and listed non lab science in a section that allowed him to list up to 5 non a-g courses. We just self reported geometry. And he will list his DE courses (thankfully, he has at least a couple for each subject area) in 10th-12th...these will hopefully validate any non a-g taken earlier. I guess we will only find out if any of this is successful if he is accepted but I suggest filling in a pretend UC application (without submitting it in the end) to anyone who wants to explore this further to get a good feel of how to complete the application. It made me realize that I have to reformat my transcript slightly (the one that we will submit to UC in July if DS is accepted).

Edited September 5, 2016 by quark

[crazyforlatin]

Is Silicon Valley HS ranked? Would getting an A mean much from there even if A-G approved? Is it known as a remediation online HS?

[quark]

Foreign language (called Languages Other Than English -- LOTE) and math taken in 7th and 8th have a section in the application.

 

He manually entered courses done at home under Homeschool/ Home Study. There are separate sections for courses completed via DE/ other schooling options. The nice thing was that once he entered the community college's name, the application was automatically populated with a-g courses from the institution. He just had to choose subject area and check the box next to his course name. Much easier than typing everything in manually.

[quark]

There is a small headache for those of us whose kids have taken miscellaneous non traditional math courses. If your student has taken say for example, Counting & Probability, Number Theory, Algebra I and say something else discrete math-ish in 7th and 8th, you can only list one of the non traditional courses as discrete math. There is an option to list another as advanced math. But that's it. Algebra is listed under Algebra, Geometry under Geometry but they don't give you many options if your students has taken lots of other math that you want to report. So what to do with the 3rd non traditional math? We decided to bundle DS's C&P and NT as one course.

 

There is also a section in the application to add more detail. They give you 550 characters and you could explain the addtional courses there too but DS wanted all of his courses to appear under the relevant grade vs separately in another box. I'm sure you'll figure out a way but just be prepared for it. I didn't know this until I did a trial run application last year.

Edited September 5, 2016 by quark

[Arcadia]

OP,

 

I find this UC planning guide useful for just seeing how many a-g requirements are getting fulfilled as we go along.

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/files/My_Academic_Planner-EAOP.pdf

 

ETA:

I made an excel template based on the planner for my convenience to keep track for both my kids. Especially when I have SAT and ACT scores already. And my oldest may take the sat math in August 2017.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Arcadia

[...................]

Hm that's interesting.

 

I have heard that the UC will occasionally specifically ask for proof that the class was A-G approved and if you list it as having been approved and it wasn't isn't that lying? I could see that backfiring ...

 

On the other hand your son has a bunch of DE courses that probably verify his overall education, so that will definitely help!

 

I plan to do what we can to fulfill the A-G little by little but I'm just not going to stress over it. There's always private colleges and out of state too.

 

I'm just saying that with so many online AG courses popping up its getting easier and easier.

 

And Arcadia maybe you're right that geometry is still tricky it looks like only AOPS is submitting it for review , I'll have to check again. But then again 3 semesters of college math fulfills all the math requirements whether your geometry was AG or not :)

[...................]

Thanks Arcadia!

[quark]

Geometry is self reported. It doesn't have to be a-g per se.

[quark]

I have heard that the UC will occasionally specifically ask for proof that the class was A-G approved and if you list it as having been approved and it wasn't isn't that lying? I could see that backfiring ...

 

 

There isn't any other option is what I am saying. There is nothing there to list non a-g courses (apart from the measly 5). Next to each course, you have to classify what it is and the only options given in the drop down menu are the a-g categories. There is no option there to say non a-g. It is a huge disadvantage to not report all of his classes. But he will have the 2 SAT subject tests and SAT for them to consider admission by exam if they wanted to. He also has a large number of a-g college courses. It will be very interesting to see what happens/ how they treat his application. We are unwilling to neglect all the work he has put into home brewed courses just because they are not officially a-g. There is no other way that we can see to highlight his pointy focus in math (not all of his college level math is a-g). He will talk about being homeschooled in the essays so I'm hoping they realize all of that at the outset itself.

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by quark

[...................]

Hm that's intersting. I think you did the right thing. Given the scenario what do they want you to do? Just not apply? Strange that there aren't more options. Meanwhile I'm excited to hear how it turns out! For the record our PSP says kids get into UC all the time without Havjng met all the requirements. Sometimes they don't as well...but often they do. So, you just never know.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Calming Tea

[Arcadia]

OP,

 

Read from page 22 onwards. Explains the online application system

http://woodbridgehigh.org/counseling/UCApplication.pdf

[Arcadia]

Geometry is self reported. It doesn't have to be a-g per se.

:) one headache less

 

ETA:

Good for me that your son is older than my oldest. I get to benefit from your BTDT.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Arcadia

[MarkT]

Be careful though, to find out if the AP courses offered by UC Scout,  if you still have to score a 3 on the exam to get the credit, not just a passing score in the class....??  We can look into that for sure.

A  3 is equivalent to a college "C"  so that is a fairly reasonable requirement.

[...................]

^^ but many students are not good test takers. For some students who get a C in the AP class and have many tests to take, knowing that passing grade on the UC Scout AP course In and of itself is A G approved would be a huge plus.

[Arcadia]

^^ but many students are not good test takers. For some students who get a C in the AP class and have many tests to take, knowing that passing grade on the UC Scout AP course In and of itself is A G approved would be a huge plus.

DE community college courses might work for not good test takers instead of going for the AP or SAT subject test.

 

My oldest like music composition so I am looking at him doing that at CC instead of bothering with AP Music Theory exam which he has no interest in.

[...................]

^^ Yes, very true

[quark]

DE community college courses might work for not good test takers instead of going for the AP or SAT subject test.

 

My oldest like music composition so I am looking at him doing that at CC instead of bothering with AP Music Theory exam which he has no interest in.

Yes but it would depend on the class. One class DS took was 33-34% per exam (2 midterms, 1 final) and that's it. If a kid tanked one it might still be ok but tank 2 and it's risky. Choose carefully! :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

This is a great discussion, and I really appreciate CT starting it and everyone else chiming in.

 

However . . . I still feel so frustrated when I think about the a-g hoops! I'm looking at the Silicon Valley High website.  Very cool that they have so many a-g courses, but I have no way of judging the content. And I am so hesitant to jettison a personalized study plan that dd and I have created together (for world history, or English, for example) in order to check off an a-g hoop!  It's fine for a subject she doesn't care about so much, that is just a box check - so I can see using it for American Government or Economics.  But for a subject she cares about, it feels like a waste of time, or an add-on to what we already want to do.  

 

Is anybody using these courses that can comment on the content? Or how long it takes for a motivated student to work through a semester-long class? If it's really just a box-check, how quickly could they get 'er done? When I've looked at UC Scout in the past, I was really underwhelmed by the content. But I wonder for a truly "box-check" class from the student's POV if it wouldn't be worth it . . . 

 

Still not sure what to do. Dd has fantasies about attending a small liberal arts college, but without significant scholarships that isn't going to be possible.  The financial safety path is 2 years of CC then transfering to a state school.  That doesn't require us to worry about a-g.  I'm not sure whether it's worth chucking our high school plan to jump through the a-g hoops.  Though I get your point, CT, is that it is *possible* to do so, I still don't wanna!  :sad:  :001_rolleyes:

Edited September 5, 2016 by Chrysalis Academy

[MarkT]

^^ but many students are not good test takers. For some students who get a C in the AP class and have many tests to take, knowing that passing grade on the UC Scout AP course In and of itself is A G approved would be a huge plus.

IMHO - most science and math tests are a reasonable evaluation of subject mastery.  I do think the new AP Physics 1 and 2 exams are still a "work in progress" and probably have too much "trickery" like some of the common-core type tests. It's hard for me to evaluate them because they don't release the multiple choice questions.

 

The AP History exams also seem to be pretty reasonable.  

 

I doubt a "C" in a UC Scout AP course would get you any positive points towards attending the higher rated UC schools.

Edited September 5, 2016 by MarkT

[quark]

However . . . I still feel so frustrated when I think about the a-g hoops! I'm looking at the Silicon Valley High website.  Very cool that they have so many a-g courses, but I have no way of judging the content. And I am so hesitant to jettison a personalized study plan that dd and I have created together (for world history, or English, for example) in order to check off an a-g hoop!  It's fine for a subject she doesn't care about so much, that is just a box check - so I can see using it for American Government or Economics.  But for a subject she cares about, it feels like a waste of time, or an add-on to what we already want to do.  

 

I am with you Rose. There were a few boxes for DS to check and we left those to DE in junior/ senior year. The DE option is a little more flexible that way. He has choices for checking boxes and in all cases so far, he has been both checking the box and enjoying the course. Half of his English and History is home brewed because that was the most engaging way for us to learn. Half of his math is too. I wouldn't trade that enjoyment in for a dry, lifeless course just to get him UC brownie points.

 

I think UC is learning. But I also think they need to learn more. I am not sure if what we are doing is taking a risk or not but I don't want to bow down to the pressure to conform to their requirements if it means sacrificing my child's love of learning. Like CT (the OP) says, students have been admitted with a mix of a-g and non a-g courses. So perhaps they are becoming more and more open. After all, out of state students take non a-g courses. There has to be some kind of process to vet those courses. Why can't homeschoolers (out of state or in state) have that benefit too?

Edited September 5, 2016 by quark

[...................]

Interestingly, I just printed out the Academic Guide in the link that Arcadia shared, and it says, on the last page, that the cumulative total of A-G courses, needs only be 7...

 

Maybe we are all reading the requirements on the main page wrong.  I thought it was approximately a total of like 12, not 7....

 

 

 

 

[quark]

I only skimmed it. It is an older guide. There are no more personal statements for example but personal insight questions.

 

And I'm not sure who produced this. Is it from UC?

 

ETA: a high school in Irvine. The UC page should have latest info and I think it's 15 minimum required a-g courses.

ETA2: sorry, I can't find the 7 you are referring to CT. Do you mean the 7 separate a-g categories?

Edited September 5, 2016 by quark

[...................]

IMHO - most science and math tests are a reasonable evaluation of subject mastery.  I do think the new AP Physics 1 and 2 exams are still a "work in progress" and probably have too much "trickery" like some of the common-core type tests. It's hard for me to evaluate them because they don't release the multiple choice questions.

 

The AP History exams also seem to be pretty reasonable.  

 

I doubt a "C" in a UC Scout AP course would get you any positive points towards attending the higher rated UC schools.

Good points, except that I am, like Chrysalis Academy/Rose, trying to straddle a line between two worlds.  The first world  in which my son takes all the classes that we love, from the provider we love, when he is most interested, at the time we think is best...and gets great grades but not necessarily AP.

 

The second world in which we live in an area in which private college is so absolutely cost prohibitive that although he will apply to many, we don't think that should be what we aim for.  There's a big different in graduating 300K in debt, or 90K in debt, and we push our son to do exactly what the UC requires, with every validation test necessary at all times, with the best grade possible, and my own son would probably get pretty stressed taking that route.

 

So, in my world that it would be nice to know a B in a UC scout AP course would qualify, even if a student chooses not to take the AP test. 

Edited September 5, 2016 by Calming Tea

[...................]

I only skimmed it. It is an older guide. There are no more personal statements for example but personal insight questions.

 

And I'm not sure who produced this. Is it from UC?

 

ETA: a high school in Irvine. The UC page should have latest info and I think it's 15 minimum required a-g courses.

ETA2: sorry, I can't find the 7 you are referring to CT. Do you mean the 7 separate a-g categories?

Thank you!

 

The last page on 12th grade where it says "cumulative requirements" it says "7 a-gs"  

 

Darn, I was getting excited LOL

[...................]

But, it's published by UC...if you click on "eaop" link it takes you to a site where the UC's are trying to reach underserved areas 

[quark]

Thank you!

 

The last page on 12th grade where it says "cumulative requirements" it says "7 a-gs"  

 

Darn, I was getting excited LOL

 

:laugh: I was looking at the wrong link, no wonder!

 

I would love any reason to get excited lol.

 

No, I don't think that's what it means. See page 3 (ETA: therefore, minimum of 15 by senior year?):

 

For example, to be considered for UC admission, at a minimum you need to complete any 11 UC approved “a-g†courses by the end of junior year (including courses taken in the summer between junior and senior year) each with a grade of “C†or better.

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by quark

[quark]

But, it's published by UC...if you click on "eaop" link it takes you to a site where the UC's are trying to reach underserved areas 

 

Sorry, I was referring to post 27 instead of 21. I just replied about the link in post 21.

 

ETA: Page 2 also clearly spells out the 15.

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by quark

[...................]

Yeah I double checked.  It's fifteen for sure. :glare:   

 

We can all be un-excited now. :leaving:

[Arcadia]

Interestingly, I just printed out the Academic Guide in the link that Arcadia shared, and it says, on the last page, that the cumulative total of A-G courses, needs only be 7...

 

Maybe we are all reading the requirements on the main page wrong. I thought it was approximately a total of like 12, not 7....

The UC planner says 15 a-g courses.

The other pdf on how to fill in the online app might be outdated.

[quark]

Yeah I double checked.  It's fifteen for sure. :glare:   

 

We can all be un-excited now. :leaving:

 

Sorry. :tongue_smilie: I didn't mean to burst the bubble. I am similarly frustrated. We are somewhat ok-ish I think because he took the DE route (I hope, maybe I'm wrong!) but I have friends who are not going to and I feel very frustrated for them.

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by quark

[quark]

Those minimum accumulative requirements are confusing though. Maybe hope is not lost, CT. Maybe as long as there are 7 a-g equivalent/ approved courses (satisfied through a number of ways, e.g. SAT subject tests, APs, approved courses), they will still consider the application?

 

You are definitely right upthread about people being admitted with fewer a-gs. I personally know students who were. And I also wonder if it is campus specific because if GPA is > the cut off, would they also consider the a-g minimum not attained but what if students have shown impressive track records academically/ EC-wise or both? I wouldn't wish for a uni to be that narrow minded and I don't think UC is like that.

[...................]

Sorry. :tongue_smilie: I didn't mean to burst the bubble. I am similarly frustrated. We are somewhat ok-ish I think because he took the DE route (I hope, maybe I'm wrong!) but I have friends who are not going to and I feel very frustrated for them.

 

 

Yes, that's true.  My son will take some DE too, which will really help.  But you can't always get your DE classes.  At the college we used to be near you could definitely NOT get your DE Classes. AT ALL, almost ever....the one we are near now...you do have a chance.

[...................]

HOw do you guys plan to fulfill Performing and Visual Arts?  CC?

[quark]

HOw do you guys plan to fulfill Performing and Visual Arts?  CC?

 

This was the one area I didn't think about at all. I ignorantly thought that all his music classes and ECs will make up for it (and according to a friend, her son didn't have any P/VA courses but UC considered the fact that he had been taking music lessons for 10+ years). Thankfully, DS took an online film class last summer that fulfills the requirement (phew!). He took it without knowing it was a-g approved on Doorways so when I checked Doorways in a sudden state of panic, I was so relieved to see he had one a-g approved for V/PA after all. If you can DE somehow, do. The convenience has been incredible here. As mentioned to you before, the students I know who take more DE classes have taken CHSPE to be able to take more classes without having to give up freshman status.