Fermentation Experimentation

[Rosie_0801]

Hopefully this will be a thread that never ends and goes on and on, my friends. :D

 

Because hopefully there will always be someone with something interesting to report!

 

I haven't much experience with fermenting foods, but I know some of you around here do.

 

Tell us everything! We want to know!

[Rosie_0801]

I have a perpetual pot of kombucha on my bench. My favourite is the rose and vanilla Dilmah tea.  :drool5:  It is magic. A magic potion, I tell you! All you Harry Potter fans should make some, and everyone who isn't should make some too because it is so delicious. The reason I know it is magic is because, during an incredibly stressful period of time, I was pretty much living on Tim Tams and this kombucha for three weeks without getting sick, and the limit for living on Tim Tams and stress without getting sick is usually three days. See? That is proof!  :biggrinjester:

 

Sandor Katz's fermentation book, that big orange one, is most inspirational. I tried the juniper drink. My aunt said she thought it was going to taste like liquid pine trees, and sure enough, it tasted like liquid pine trees. I think it might have been nice if I hadn't left it so long. The book recommended a month. It might have been better if I had paid a bit more attention to the process so I knew to stop sooner, so I will try it again the next time I come across large enough quantities of juniper berries. They are not something I see around much.

 

I learned why no one makes sauerkraut out of the dark outer leaves of the cabbage. It ends up like fermented lawn clippings, so don't try it yourself!

I've also tried making beet kvass. It boggles my mind that anyone thinks this is a nice thing to drink, but it tastes better in borscht than apple cider vinegar does, which is what I have to use when I haven't thought of making the kvass yet. Sandor's book talks about lettuce kvass, which I was certain would taste like pond scum, yet when I first tried the beet kvass, I thought it would taste better if it was more lettuce-y, so perhaps there's something to it.

 

Daughter and I made up a batch of wild lettuce kvass a week ago, so we're going to try it tomorrow. I also have two jars of water sitting for the chlorine to evaporate off so we can make up some more tomorrow. Usually it is flavoured with garlic and dill seeds, but we didn't have any so made it plain. The wild lettuce in the yard is making it's yearly attempt to take over the world, so there is plenty for us to experiment on. We shall try the dill and garlic, and I want to try celery seed too since it has been in my pantry so long I can't remember why I would have ever bought it. It's nicely labelled and everything, so it must have been deliberate! I'm not sure if I should put garlic in with the celery seed, but I probably will because it can only improve it, I'm sure.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

We make sauerkraut.  We have a special pot for it.  You chop up your veg (we usually do just cabbage, but sometimes we add carrots).  Then you pound it, salt it, and can spice it (juniper berries, cloves, bay leaves, etc).  You pound it until it releases enough water to cover it.  Then you put the lid on and keep water in this reservoir to keep air out of the pot.  We don't time it, but usually we have it sit there for a couple of months. 

 

That's all we ferment.  Well, that and grapes.  My husband makes homemade wine with a combination of grapes we grow in the yard and grapes we buy.  That's more involved, and I haven't done it myself.  He started off with a kit. 

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Milk kefir is a daily thing here though, for my kids, and water kefir with strawberry is wonderful but a little too sugary for me.

 

I used to have milk kefir grains for my boy. I'd alternate between coconut milk to make pudding, which he'd eat, and dairy milk to feed it. I used the dairy to make pasta sauce creamy or to make pancakes. Sometimes I have water kefir going, but I don't flavour it. What do you do? Puree the strawberries and add water kefir?

 

 

My aunt made a batch of fermented garlic once. One whiff was nearly enough to knock us off our feet. Is there a reason for fermenting garlic instead of using it fresh?

 

We make sauerkraut.  We have a special pot for it.  

 

 

I want one of those pots. I think they would make me feel like a proper grown up fermenter. That and some things, like juniper berries, are kind of annoying to ferment because they float, lol.

 

 

One of the dads in our homeschool group made coffee kombucha! I don't like coffee, but it was pretty exciting because it smelled exactly how one would think coffee kombucha would smell. Now we're wondering what else can be kombucha-ed and have given him the assignment of trying gum leaves.

 

 

[SemiSweet]

I make kimchi sometimes. My husband likes it, but I'm not the kimchi connoisseur that he is, as he's Korean. I don't ferment anything else.

[Liz CA]

I regularly ferment beets, carrots and apples - all chopped up in the food processor. Put in mason jar, leave at least 1 inch on top for bubbling.

Add water to cover all veggies, sprinkle a little whey and salt in and leave at room temperature for 4-5 days, then refrigerate.Yummy.

 

[Wabi Sabi]

We stick with sauerkraut and pickles here just using mason jars with airlock caps that I bought on eBay. I can't make enough: my family eats it faster than I can make it. Whenever we have sauerkraut I find my kids standing in front of the fridge stealing bites of cold sauerkraut all day long. It's just as bad as having an open bag of chocolate chips, LOL! 

[Rosie_0801]

With the water kefir I usually blend up a few frozen strawberries, add some vanilla extract, and a little stevia or sucralose to sweeten in slightly more for he second fermentation once it is bottled. It makes a wonderful fruity cream soda - really fantastic. Even with most of the sweet taste coming from the sugar free sweeteners it still tends to cause my cravings, which is unfortunate. Water kefir is my favorite.

 

 

I'm too lazy to have tried second fermentation with the kefir. That and I don't have fridge or cellar to keep it in, so a pot on the bench works best for me. Maybe I'll get to it one day. I'm interested, certainly.

 

We stick with sauerkraut and pickles here just using mason jars with airlock caps that I bought on eBay. I can't make enough: my family eats it faster than I can make it. Whenever we have sauerkraut I find my kids standing in front of the fridge stealing bites of cold sauerkraut all day long. It's just as bad as having an open bag of chocolate chips, LOL! 

 

 

Your kids are awesome.

[Rosie_0801]

Got  question. How small a batch of lacto-ferment can you make?

 

Inspired by Regentrude, I have bought a celeriac and wish to try both her pickle recipe and a lacto-fermented version. Can I do both, or will the batch be too small for some reason I can't imagine but am worrying about nonetheless. :p

[Snickerdoodle]

Rosie can you post your process for the rose kombucha please? 

 

I was doing a second ferment with elderberry that came out sooooo good.  But then had a batch of contamination and stopped fermenting for a while.  A new recipe would do the trick!

 

[Rosie_0801]

Ah, the rose kombucha is a lazy girl recipe.

 

Buy Dilmah Rose and French Vanilla tea. 
Make up a batch of it and put in some sugar.

Pour into the scoby pot.
Binge on it.

 

 

One of these years I will have to get into this second ferment business, but in the meantime I use flavoured teas. I picked up some packets of tea from the Chinese shop the other month with goji berries, hawthorn fruit and all sorts of other interesting stuff. They're pretty good too.

[Snickerdoodle]

Okay thanks, I thought you were doing a second.   Will try!

[MercyA]

Can we talk about home brewing, too? Here's a super easy way to make homemade hard cider:

www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/04/22/brew-your-own-cider/

 

Great for lazy people like me. :)

[Arcadia]

Homemade Chinese rice wine. My parents and grandparents made them but I can't find some ingredients here.

 

Link has the procedure in photos.

http://www.echoskitchen.com/2011/03/home-made-chinese-red-rice-wine.html

[kandesmom]

Ah, the rose kombucha is a lazy girl recipe.

 

Buy Dilmah Rose and French Vanilla tea.

Make up a batch of it and put in some sugar.

Pour into the scoby pot.

Binge on it.

 

 

One of these years I will have to get into this second ferment business, but in the meantime I use flavoured teas. I picked up some packets of tea from the Chinese shop the other month with goji berries, hawthorn fruit and all sorts of other interesting stuff. They're pretty good too.

Interesting, Rosie! I am fairly new to brewing Kombucha, been brewing for a few months. I keep hearing from other seasoned brewers to never use teas with added flavors or oils because it can ruin or alter the culture, and to always add flavor in the second ferment.

Edited September 5, 2016 by kandesmom

[Rosie_0801]

Interesting, Rosie! I am fairly new to brewing Kombucha, been brewing for a few months. I keep hearing from other seasoned brewers to never use teas with added flavors or oils because it can ruin or alter the culture, and to always add flavor in the second ferment.

 

If the oil had antibacterial properties, I'd agree. My scoby keeps reproducing, so it must be happy enough. :)

[Rosie_0801]

Well, we used the plain lettuce kvass as a soup base last night. I added extra salt and thyme for flavour and it was ok until it went cold, then BITTER. Why is that? What does temperature have to do with bitterness?

[mommymonster]

Can we talk about home brewing, too? Here's a super easy way to make homemade hard cider:

www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/04/22/brew-your-own-cider/

 

Great for lazy people like me. :)

 

And... I have the yeast and stoppers ordered. Can't wait! This is my kind of beverage making. 

[Wabi Sabi]

Can we talk about home brewing, too? Here's a super easy way to make homemade hard cider:

www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/04/22/brew-your-own-cider/

 

Great for lazy people like me. :)

 

 

And... I have the yeast and stoppers ordered. Can't wait! This is my kind of beverage making. 

 

|

 

Oh yes, thanks to that link I'm already planning a trip for tomorrow to the local shop that sells brewing supplies just for the yeast and stoppers!

[mommymonster]

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Oh yes, thanks to that link I'm already planning a trip for tomorrow to the local shop that sells brewing supplies just for the yeast and stoppers!

 

Just FYI, Amazon has champagne yeast and stoppers... Prime... less than $15... Just in case you're *really* lazy and don't feel like leaving the house. ;-)

[Liz CA]

Got  question. How small a batch of lacto-ferment can you make?

 

Inspired by Regentrude, I have bought a celeriac and wish to try both her pickle recipe and a lacto-fermented version. Can I do both, or will the batch be too small for some reason I can't imagine but am worrying about nonetheless. :p

 

I don't think there is something like "too small" a batch. If it ferments, it's good. I try all kind of combinations in smaller mason jars before I make larger quantities.

[Liz CA]

Interesting, Rosie! I am fairly new to brewing Kombucha, been brewing for a few months. I keep hearing from other seasoned brewers to never use teas with added flavors or oils because it can ruin or alter the culture, and to always add flavor in the second ferment.

 

I have heard that Earl Grey tea is bad for kombucha because of some added oils. I have avoided it. But plain organic black tea mixed with some herbal teas seems to turn out consistently good.

 

For inspiration with kefir and cultured veggies, I frequently check this website:

 

https://www.culturedfoodlife.com/the-trilogy/cultured-vegetables/how-to-make-cultured-vegetables/

Edited September 6, 2016 by Liz CA

[solascriptura]

I've made all kinds of kimchi successfully. I used to make water and juice kefir, but I stopped after a while. Fermented dill pickles (Alton Brown) is really tasty and simple too. The one thing that remains even after all my experimenting is the Napa kimchi.

[nevergiveup]

Can we talk about home brewing, too? Here's a super easy way to make homemade hard cider:

www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/04/22/brew-your-own-cider/

 

Great for lazy people like me. :)

Wonderful!  We made 43 gallons of cider last year and tried to make some hard cider out of a couple of gallons of it with not-so-great results.

I would like to try this method this year.

Edited September 6, 2016 by nevergiveup

[Jaybee]

I know nothing about fermentation. However, every single time I scroll past your post, I have to pronounce the title of it in my mind and savor the sound of it.

[Rosie_0801]

I know nothing about fermentation. However, every single time I scroll past your post, I have to pronounce the title of it in my mind and savor the sound of it.

 

Then you must learn! That way you can have fermentation experimentation right there in your own kitchen!  :laugh:

[wendy not in HI]

Does sourdough starter count as fermentation??  My husband was given starter from a friend a couple years ago and he has become an incredible bread baker.  We moved this summer and that jar of starter practically rode in the front seat of the car!  It made the move just fine, and we had a lovely batch of bread on Sunday.

[Rosie_0801]

Does sourdough starter count as fermentation??  My husband was given starter from a friend a couple years ago and he has become an incredible bread baker.  We moved this summer and that jar of starter practically rode in the front seat of the car!  It made the move just fine, and we had a lovely batch of bread on Sunday.

 

Yeah, for sure!

[Rosie_0801]

Well, after five days, I have discovered that the kvass flavoured with garlic and celery seeds isn't much chop. The one flavoured with dill and garlic tastes like kvass flavoured with garlic. It's not awful, but it's certainly not my new best favourite.

 

 

What do we do with the stuff now? :lol:

[KungFuPanda]

I've done yogurt, pickles, and sourdough. That's the limit of my exploration. I've don sourdough the most. My starter is the best and I keep it like a pet. I haven't done yogurt in a while, but of the three it's the quickest to make if you only count hands-on time

[Rosie_0801]

Does "pickles" mean cucumbers unless otherwise stated?

[Liz CA]

Well, after five days, I have discovered that the kvass flavoured with garlic and celery seeds isn't much chop. The one flavoured with dill and garlic tastes like kvass flavoured with garlic. It's not awful, but it's certainly not my new best favourite.

 

 

What do we do with the stuff now? :lol:

 

Can you use it as a flavoring agent for plain water or a little in chicken stock just to get the enzymes in there?

 

[Rosie_0801]

Can you use it as a flavoring agent for plain water or a little in chicken stock just to get the enzymes in there?

 

 

I daresay I can. Will I want to? :lol:

 

 

I still want to know about bitterness. Why did our last batch become unbearably bitter when it cooled down?

[Liz CA]

I daresay I can. Will I want to? :lol:

 

 

I still want to know about bitterness. Why did our last batch become unbearably bitter when it cooled down?

 

Did you leave it out too long or is it hot in your house?

 

[Rosie_0801]

Did you leave it out too long or is it hot in your house?

 

 

No, last week I heated a batch to use as a soup base. It was okay while it was hot, but by the time it was lukewarm, it was inedible!

[Liz CA]

No, last week I heated a batch to use as a soup base. It was okay while it was hot, but by the time it was lukewarm, it was inedible!

 

Wow. I have only made Kvass a handful of times. I am more familiar with Kefir and sourdough but I always thought once it's heated beyond F85 it loses its fermenting properties. Obviously I need to read up on Kvass. Have you googled what could make it bitter?

[Rosie_0801]

Wow. I have only made Kvass a handful of times. I am more familiar with Kefir and sourdough but I always thought once it's heated beyond F85 it loses its fermenting properties. Obviously I need to read up on Kvass. Have you googled what could make it bitter?

 

I can't find anything that answers my question. Wild lettuce is bitter to begin with, which is why the Jews of the Ukraine fermented it. Or so sayeth the Sandor Katz book. *shrug* 

 

Perhaps I should try http://www.culturesforhealth.com/learn/recipe/lacto-fermentation-recipes/lacto-fermented-lettuce/ when I have a free jar and see if that is less horrid :p

[KungFuPanda]

Does "pickles" mean cucumbers unless otherwise stated?

Im a hillbilly. I'll eat all sorts of picked foods including eggs. I think I've only actually pickled eggs and cucumbers by myself. I'm from a long line of Super Canners and I've dropped the ball. My garden is a joke compared to Mom's and Mamaw's.

[Rosie_0801]

Oh man! I've been meaning to make pickled eggs in forever! 

 

Dd has two chooks laying now, so I may be able to purchase off her next week.

[Prairie~Phlox]

We make sauerkraut regularly.  I have done kombucha and fermented carrots, onions & jalapenos together before and they were yummy.

[Rosie_0801]

I think I have discovered the point of the lettuce kvass. It is a Spring tonic for that time of year when you all come down with colds and aren't sure why.

 

Add a bit of raw honey and it tastes like the garlicky cold medicine my mother used to make for us. :ack2:

[Liz CA]

Cross Post:

 

http://www.sausagema...CFdgMgQod7JIIaw

 

I am thinking of getting one of these as I am doing more and more veggie fermenting.

Any other options?

 

I have been fermenting veggies in mason jars but since we have hot summers, my summer fermenting is a little hit and miss. I am wondering if the stone pot will help with this.

 

Any others I should consider?

[Rosie_0801]

I don't think the fancy pots make any difference other than convenience.

 

I should get one for my mum...

[Spy Car]

I make kimchi sometimes. My husband likes it, but I'm not the kimchi connoisseur that he is, as he's Korean. I don't ferment anything else.

 

I just (today) finished eating the last remains my first batch of authentic kimchi. I've done "quick" versions plenty of times.

 

I've got the makings of the next batch staring at me to get started.

 

Love kimchi.

 

Bill

[maize]

I need to make sauerkraut. But first I need to clean out my crock from the batch I made...um...a long time ago that went bad (too much mold got in somehow) and I just set the crock on my back deck and left it there.

 

My toddler loves sauerkraut and pickles, and tends to turn her nose up at sweet stuff. She's such a funny kid.

[Spy Car]

Does "pickles" mean cucumbers unless otherwise stated?

 

Yep, when Americans say "pickles" it means pickled cucumbers. Is it different in Oz?

 

Bill

[Rosie_0801]

Yep, when Americans say "pickles" it means pickled cucumbers. Is it different in Oz?

 

Bill

 

Yep.

 

If I said "pickles" it would mean a horrible, sweet, yellow, sloppy condiment unless otherwise stated.

[Spy Car]

Yep.

 

If I said "pickles" it would mean a horrible, sweet, yellow, sloppy condiment unless otherwise stated.

 

Had to look it up.

 

The remotely closest thing I've had/made is Ploughman's Pickles (aka Branson Pickles). 

 

In Oz you call 'em "cucumber pickles?"

 

Bill

[Rosie_0801]

Had to look it up.

 

The remotely closest thing I've had/made is Ploughman's Pickles (aka Branson Pickles). 

 

In Oz you call 'em "cucumber pickles?"

 

Bill

 

Yeah, to us "pickles" are those Branson type chutney things. I'm yet to decipher the difference between what we call pickles and what we call chutney. As far as I can tell, they are both nasty sweet things that ought to be savoury. Maybe the difference is the colour? Pickles are yellow and chutneys are red?

 

I don't think anyone uses the phrasing "cucumber pickles." We have gherkins and if it is a pickled cucumber that doesn't rightly seem to be a gherkin, it is a pickled cucumber. 

[Spy Car]

One of the very favorite food memories of mine is the lemon pickle and lime pickle made by my best friends father when I was a boy.

 

The Dad was Armenian and French, a Dutch citizen, but grew up in Indonesia, His wife was Dutch/Indonesian. She was a truly gifted cook. Multiple course meals of exotically seasoned stews, grilled saté, and rice dishes. It was magical eating at their house, which I did very frequently.

 

My best friend wanted nothing to do with Indonesian food (he'd demand a hamburger half the time) while I'd (very deservedly) praise Mrs G's cooking to the sky.

 

So I had an open invitation at her table. And she taught me too cook using ingredients no one else in my 1960-70s white suburbia was using at that time. Things like shrimp paste, lemongrass, sambal oelek, fish sauce, ketjap manis, and all sorts of spices.

 

But Mr G was the pickle maker. His pickles were brilliant and simple. I now believe they reflected the Armenian side of his heritage, but they were perfect with Mrs G's meals.

 

To make his pickles, one would clean and then thoroughly dry lemons or thin-skinned limes. Slits would be cut into the fruit (quartered) while leaving enough uncut flesh at the poles so the lemons or limes remained intact. Then salt (a kosher salt or coarse sea salt) would be liberally worked inside the slits. The lemons/limes would be packed in jars. More salt was added. Then any air gap was filled with lemon or lime juice. Gentle shake with sealed top to dissolve the salt.

 

Then he'd place the glass jars (lid on but seal loose) out in the sun...for months. Daily he'd go out, seal the lid, agitate gently, and rotate the jars. Until they were done (when they went in the fridge).

 

Over time these lemons/limes transformed. The liquid because syrupy, and the rinds became super-chared with flavor. A tiny piece of these pickles elevated dishes.

 

Mmmm. 

 

Mr and Mrs G are both departed, but they sure enriched my life.

 

Bill