Smoking on the sidewalk

[flyingiguana]

Do I own the sidewalk in front of my house?  As in, can I legally ask people not to smoke there?

 

I know - it probably varies by city.  But I'm wondering what people think about this.

[regentrude]

You probably don't own the side walk. Are you legally responsible if somebody has an accident on that piece of side walk, or is the city?

 

You should be able to ask people not to smoke if the side walk is close to your house. I frequently see signs that prohibit smoking within a certain number of feet from the doors of establishments, so would assume a similar rule could apply to a private residence.

If your side walk is twenty yards from the house, I don't believe you can do anything.

 

If you live in town, there should eb a city ordinace about this.

[TeenagerMom]

I'm thinking most towns/cities are probably going to tell you no, that you cannot tell someone they can't smoke on the sidewalk in front of your house.  If you can't prohibit someone from walking on the sidewalk, you probably cannot prohibit any other legal activity that takes place there.

[Annie G]

In our town we are required to shovel snow from our sidewalk and maintain it if it needs repair.  The city is very clear about that- we are responsible if someone gets hurt on our sidewalk, such as slipping on ice or tripping on a cracked sidewalk. But we cannot keep anyone from using it. I'm guessing the includes smoking, as we can't keep people from walking dogs on it. 

 

I live near a busy intersection for our town and once a year there is a fairly large pro life demonstration where people stand on our sidewalks and hold signs and often shout to cars passing by. A few neighbors called the city because they don't want the people on the sidewalk in front of their house. City says too bad.  So at least here, I'm quite sure we'd have to allow smokers. 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think that you can ask people not to smoke.  In our city the homeowner is responsible for the upkeep of the sidewalk outside their home but not the behavior of people on that sidewalk.  I suppose that you could complain to the police about people littering if they throw the butts on the sidewalk but I think  you would be hardpressed to find any police department who wanted to spare resources to respond to a call about that. 

[creekland]

I'd wonder if you asked, how many butts you'd find on your property - just because.

 

I definitely dislike smoking, but I'm not sure if I see a "winnable" solution here unless you can make the area less appealing somehow.

[Catalytic]

You could very politely ask them not to smoke there, explain it bothers you.  If they don't comply, well, a can of Lysol might get rid of them.  Or you could just spray the Lysol  at the sidewalk anytime someone smokes there.

[poppy]

No.

[poppy]

You could very politely ask them not to smoke there, explain it bothers you. If they don't comply, well, a can of Lysol might get rid of them. Or you could just spray the Lysol at the sidewalk anytime someone smokes there.

If I was a smoker and someone sprayed Lysol at me I would call the police.

[heartlikealion]

If I was a smoker and someone sprayed Lysol at me I would call the police.

 

lol

 

Some people have "no smoking/thank you for not smoking" signs at their house. I suppose you could display one in the window so they get the hint that you aren't fond of smoking. But if they aren't close to your home or don't think you can see them then it may not do anything.

 

[I talk to the trees]

If I was a smoker and someone sprayed Lysol at me I would call the police.

Interesting. And yet smokers can blow their toxins at anyone they choose, including children with asthma severe enough that smoke exposure can trigger an attack which sends them to the ER, and that's not considered assault. Ah, the power of well-funded lobby groups...

Edited September 4, 2016 by I talk to the trees

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well here there are rules about how close to building entrances people are allowed to smoke.  Thankfully I do not encounter people smoking very often around here and that would drive me crazy.

 

I dunno.  Only thing I can think to do is make it less desirable to smoke there.  Pile of poop or something.  LMAO 

[heartlikealion]

Well here there are rules about how close to building entrances people are allowed to smoke.  Thankfully I do not encounter people smoking very often around here and that would drive me crazy.

 

I dunno.  Only thing I can think to do is make it less desirable to smoke there.  Pile of poop or something.  LMAO 

 

:lol:

 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[poppy]

Really? You would call the police??? Seriously?? Of all the adult things that an average intelligence person could do- your first choice would be to call the police and criminalize the spraying of Lysol? You would put that family through the hell of being reported to the police instead of just putting your nasty ass cigarette out? Or just walking away from their house? Because not wanting to have other peoples disgusting ass cigarette smoke wafting through their house is criminal now?

 

I am so freaking sick of this country, and it's citizenry, who for the most part, are INCAPABLE of solving problems without the effing police.

 

Please, for the love of God, America, grow up, and learn how to solve normal conflicts without the freaking police!

 

You mean solve it by spraying chemicals on someone because they annoy you? That is grown up behavior?

If you behave aggressively towards someone you will likely see negative consequences.

 

Smoking in front of someone = allowed. Blowing smoke in someone's face = assault. Lysol , same.

[heartlikealion]

Really? You would call the police??? Seriously?? Of all the adult things that an average intelligence person could do- your first choice would be to call the police and criminalize the spraying of Lysol? You would put that family through the hell of being reported to the police instead of just putting your nasty ass cigarette out? Or just walking away from their house? Because not wanting to have other peoples disgusting ass cigarette smoke wafting through their house is criminal now?

 

I am so freaking sick of this country, and it's citizenry, who for the most part, are INCAPABLE of solving problems without the effing police.

 

Please, for the love of God, America, grow up, and learn how to solve normal conflicts without the freaking police!

 

To be fair (and I'm saying this as someone that hates cig. smoke) the Lysol thing basically sounds like assault. So can't we problem solve without assaulting someone?

 

[Caroline]

Well considering Lysol is flammable, my guess is you would be calling an ambulance.

 

Really? You would call the police??? Seriously?? Of all the adult things that an average intelligence person could do- your first choice would be to call the police and criminalize the spraying of Lysol? You would put that family through the hell of being reported to the police instead of just putting your nasty ass cigarette out? Or just walking away from their house? Because not wanting to have other peoples disgusting ass cigarette smoke wafting through their house is criminal now?

 

I am so freaking sick of this country, and it's citizenry, who for the most part, are INCAPABLE of solving problems without the effing police.

 

Please, for the love of God, America, grow up, and learn how to solve normal conflicts without the freaking police!

[creekland]

I'm starting to envision a new set of Hatfields and McCoys...  I'm not sure that qualifies as a decent solution regardless of what is or isn't legal.

 

The pile of poop suggestion is a good one IMO.  Can you borrow a dog or cat?  

[marbel]

Are people just walking by smoking, or hanging around right in front of your house?    I'm having a hard time picturing the latter happening unless you're talking about a multi-unit residence.  (I'm picturing a suburban street of single-family homes, 'cause that's where I live.)  If it was that, though, I'd try to find the courage to go up to people and ask them to move along because the smoke is settling there and the smell is coming into the house.    But if the offenders are people who also live in the building, and you don't know them well enough to ask them to find another place to hang out because the smoke is coming into the house, then... I don't know.   So, no  help or advice here, just trying to get a clearer picture as it may spark an idea for someone.

 

 

[Catalytic]

If I was a smoker and someone sprayed Lysol at me I would call the police.

 

I am a smoker, and I make every effort not to pollute others' airspace with my bad habit.  Personally, I would move if asked, but if not, a can of Lysol would definitely get rid of me.

[bettyandbob]

If smoking on the sidewalk were a big problem I might set up sprinklers in my yard to go off when someone is loitering and smoking. I would only do this if I could start a sprinkler from inside the house and it might appear as if on a timer.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Really? You would call the police??? Seriously?? Of all the adult things that an average intelligence person could do- your first choice would be to call the police and criminalize the spraying of Lysol? You would put that family through the hell of being reported to the police instead of just putting your nasty ass cigarette out? Or just walking away from their house? Because not wanting to have other peoples disgusting ass cigarette smoke wafting through their house is criminal now?

 

I am so freaking sick of this country, and it's citizenry, who for the most part, are INCAPABLE of solving problems without the effing police.

 

Please, for the love of God, America, grow up, and learn how to solve normal conflicts without the freaking police!

 

Well I assumed the Lysol suggestion was more of a joke, but yeah as much as I despise cigarette smoke it wouldn't be too cool if I sprayed Lysol at someone.  I would expect someone to call the police on me if I did that.

 

So what is a better solution here?  Someone sprays Lysol in my face so I punch them in the face? 

[Guest]

Really? You would call the police??? Seriously?? Of all the adult things that an average intelligence person could do- your first choice would be to call the police and criminalize the spraying of Lysol? You would put that family through the hell of being reported to the police instead of just putting your nasty ass cigarette out? Or just walking away from their house? Because not wanting to have other peoples disgusting ass cigarette smoke wafting through their house is criminal now?

 

I am so freaking sick of this country, and it's citizenry, who for the most part, are INCAPABLE of solving problems without the effing police.

 

Please, for the love of God, America, grow up, and learn how to solve normal conflicts without the freaking police!

Well, that escalated quickly.

[poppy]

Interesting. And yet smokers can blow their toxins at anyone they choose, including children with asthma severe enough that smoke exposure can trigger an attack which sends them to the ER, and that's not considered assault. Ah, the power of well-funded lobby groups...

 

No. Smoking is fairly heavily restricted, if you didn't know.   They are not free to smoke in your home or any private residence.  They are not free to smoke in places of business. They may not smoke at schools or at hospitals.... they are not free to smoke in public buildings in general. They are not free to smoke in many outdoor spaces, like sports arenas .

[SparklyUnicorn]

No. Smoking is fairly heavily restricted, if you didn't know.   They are not free to smoke in your home or any private residence.  They are not free to smoke in places of business. They may not smoke at schools or at hospitals.... they are not free to smoke in public buildings in general. They are not free to smoke in many outdoor spaces, like sports arenas .

 

Ugh don't get me started.  Going to Germany was hell for one who can't stand the smell of smoke.  Smokers there were horribly rude and gross.  Germany is generally a fairly clean place, but it smells like a giant ashtray.  Worst time was at a soccer game.  Nothing like sitting among a bunch of drunken chain smoking a-holes.  I'm so spoiled where I live because I rarely encounter smoking.

 

(yes I'm a little mad about that..LOL)

[poppy]

Well I assumed the Lysol suggestion was more of a joke, but yeah as much as I despise cigarette smoke it wouldn't be too cool if I sprayed Lysol at someone.  I would expect someone to call the police on me if I did that.

 

So what is a better solution here?  Someone sprays Lysol in my face so I punch them in the face? 

 

I despise cigarette smoke, too, like most non smokers. But I don't despise smokers, and the suggestions for getting rid of them as though they are pesky animals  are making me a bit cross. 

 

You have to tolerate people who do annoying things.  We all do.  I know there are cyclists who feel about drivers the same way many people here feel about smokers..... craven polluters making our world a worse place, mindlessly going on multiple errands a day without a care for the impact they have.  Another example,   I am a vegetarian, and when I see little kids eating really obviously factory-farmed meat I cringe a little.  Do I lecture their parents? Course not. Do I feel like it'd be funny to ... I don't know, spray something at them so they go away? Of course not. 

 

The antismoking campaign is absolutely  laudable in that in has really reduced the number of smokers, but it's also made it ok to treat smokers like pariahs, and I think that chips away at our souls a little bit.

[Rachel]

My neighbor a a smoker, if he was constantly throwing his butts in front of our house or standing under our window, I would talk to him about it. He's a reasonable guy who would likely listen.

 

I can't tell if you are talking about one or two particular culprits, like maybe a neighbor who doesn't want their kids to see them smoke or if you live in a city and people frequently smoke in front of your building. Is the problem the odor or the butts? You could put a container near the sidewalk for butts. If it is consistently the same person, I would make polite conversation, maybe offer a cup of coffee while you ask if they could smoke elsewhere. Just keep it light hearted, " hey, this is going to sound crazy but you smoking in front of my house really bothers me. Would you mind to move down the street a little?"

[SparklyUnicorn]

I despise cigarette smoke, too, like most non smokers. But I don't despise smokers, and the suggestions for getting rid of them as though they are pesky animals  are making me a bit cross. 

 

You have to tolerate people who do annoying things.  We all do.  I know there are cyclists who feel about drivers the same way many people here feel about smokers..... craven polluters making our world a worse place, mindlessly going on multiple errands a day without a care for the impact they have.  Another example,   I am a vegetarian, and when I see little kids eating really obviously factory-farmed meat I cringe a little.  Do I lecture their parents? Course not. Do I feel like it'd be funny to ... I don't know, spray something at them so they go away? Of course not. 

 

The antismoking campaign is absolutely  laudable in that in has really reduced the number of smokers, but it's also made it ok to treat smokers like pariahs, and I think that chips away at our souls a little bit.

 

There is annoying and then there is downright impossible.  Anytime I'm near smoke I cough and cough and cough and gag and sputter.  I grew up with a mother who chain smoked and it affected my health.  For years I had chronic bronchitis. 

 

Needless to say I'm really not a fan and really can't tolerate people who are rude about it. And if I'm encountering it they are likely being rude about it because I avoid places where smoking is allowed. 

 

The problem with smoking is that it is nothing like being a vegetarian.  What you eat does not wreck my health.  It doesn't make me cough.  It doesn't smell bad.  When you eat what you eat it isn't like I've got to eat it with you.  When someone blows smoke near me I have to smoke with them. 

[Catalytic]

Well I assumed the Lysol suggestion was more of a joke, but yeah as much as I despise cigarette smoke it wouldn't be too cool if I sprayed Lysol at someone.  I would expect someone to call the police on me if I did that.

 

So what is a better solution here?  Someone sprays Lysol in my face so I punch them in the face? 

 

To be fair, I did not say spray it at the smoker, I said spray it at the sidewalk.

[idnib]

I think you should call your police non-emergency number and ask what the law is. Here is would not be allowed if the sidewalk is less than 20 feet from the entrance, or if you lived in multi-unit housing and it was on the property, if you live in an area designated downtown, etc.

[Guest]

As long as they aren't under the overhang of the building and within 20 feet of the door they can smoke here, even if it your property, if your property is publically accessible (like you owning up to the lot line that is covered by sidewalk and utilized easement).

 

There isn't much recourse and I don't think those laws are overly generous in terms of smoking - that restricts the bulk of the problem with air quality in and by buildings.

[poppy]

There is annoying and then there is downright impossible.  Anytime I'm near smoke I cough and cough and cough and gag and sputter.  I grew up with a mother who chain smoked and it affected my health.  For years I had chronic bronchitis. 

 

Needless to say I'm really not a fan and really can't tolerate people who are rude about it. And if I'm encountering it they are likely being rude about it because I avoid places where smoking is allowed. 

 

The problem with smoking is that it is nothing like being a vegetarian.  What you eat does not wreck my health.  It doesn't make me cough.  It doesn't smell bad.  When you eat what you eat it isn't like I've got to eat it with you.  When someone blows smoke near me I have to smoke with them. 

 

Maybe smoking is like eating peanuts then? How dare anyone ever eat peanuts or peanut butter when it is deadly to people in their very town?

 

I am playing devils advocate here a bit, of course. 

[poppy]

Better that than the negative health effects associated with second hand smoke. 

 

The CDC says there is NO risk free level of exposure to someone else's smoke.

 

http://www.quit.org.au/about/frequently-asked-questions/faqs-passive-smoking/diseases-secondhand-smoke.html

 

I do feel sorry for smokers, because addiction sucks, obviously, but not sorry enough to think they have some moral right to smoke on my sidewalk. 

 

But you are completely cool with, say, people driving to Target just to kill some time, wasting fossil fuels and spewing toxins into the environment with their ridiculously oversized cars? I don't see how that's more moral.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[eternalsummer]

There is annoying and then there is downright impossible.  Anytime I'm near smoke I cough and cough and cough and gag and sputter.  I grew up with a mother who chain smoked and it affected my health.  For years I had chronic bronchitis. 

 

Needless to say I'm really not a fan and really can't tolerate people who are rude about it. And if I'm encountering it they are likely being rude about it because I avoid places where smoking is allowed. 

 

The problem with smoking is that it is nothing like being a vegetarian.  What you eat does not wreck my health.  It doesn't make me cough.  It doesn't smell bad.  When you eat what you eat it isn't like I've got to eat it with you.  When someone blows smoke near me I have to smoke with them. 

 eating factory farmed meat is, on the whole, causing a lot more unnecessary suffering than smoking

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[poppy]

No, I do not consider blowing smoke or spraying lysol on someone assault. I am flabbergasted that ANYONE would think such a ludicrous thing. Blowing your smoke in other peoples clean air is the exact same thing as someone spraying lysol in the smokers airspace.

 

It's called being a jerk. Being a jerk should not result in jail time and having a criminal record, not to mention the thousands of dollars in lawyer fees that come with such stupid accusations and the resulting court dates. As long as no one touches your person, or seriously hurts you, it's just called being a jerk. And it should be settled without the police.

 

If anyone thinks that calling the police "just" results in the police coming over and giving some jerk a talking too, you are incredibly naive and/or stupid. They almost always write up a report, and the court system is involved in some way. And that's a good scenario, where you get decent cops who don't escalate the situation... which as recent events have shown, is not always the case.

 

The police should be reserved for major offenses: murder, rape, robbery, gross bodily harm, etc. Calling them for every minor jerky behavior is what is causing this Nanny State we live in, and it both disgusts and infuriates me that Americans are not only allowing it, they are CAUSING it. *UGH*

 

Google "simple assault".

It's why a guy can get the police called on him telling his girlfriend "I am going to kill you". It's why bullys can't threaten, terrorize, slap or hit  people legally.  If you would prefer to live in world where that is OK, and the police get  involved only after the threats escalate to actual murder... I think you are in the minority.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Maybe smoking is like eating peanuts then? How dare anyone ever eat peanuts or peanut butter when it is deadly to people in their very town?

 

I am playing devils advocate here a bit, of course. 

 

I don't think that's quite comparable. 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

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Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[Janeway]

Where I live, it is illegal to smoke in public. Reading what others go through makes me feel like never moving away.

[Farrar]

Sometimes there are loitering laws that may apply as well. As in, if someone or a group of someones is just standing in front of your home smoking, then they're not using the sidewalk for its intended purposes and the police might respond.

 

Though then you get into whether it's worth it... I've had some experience with this and it's tough. On the one hand, teens lounging on my wall and standing around on the sidewalk cracking jokes and being loud is annoying and they inevitably leave trash. On the other hand, they obviously have nowhere better to go and I'm going to get them into trouble with the police over it. Sigh. Feels not worth it.

[poppy]

Yes, I would absolutely prefer to live in a world where a persons life wasn't destroyed because of a slap, or a threat. Slaps don't kill. Threats are just words, and often spoken in the heat of anger, and often spoken by children who don't know any better. No one should have to deal with police because they got over emotional. People have been having physical altercations with each other, and living through it, and getting over it since the dawn of time. It's only now that people have become sissified to the point of requiring police intervention for every argument/disagreement.

 

But yes, I would absolutely prefer to go back to a time when you could punch your bully in the face, teach him a lesson, and you both go on about your business. The End.

 

I've never punched anyone . I've been punched.  I'll stay in today, thanks.

[LucyStoner]

Well, smoking on the sidewalk here is technically restricted to 25 feet away from bus shelters and the doors/window/vents of public and commercial buildings. So for instance, it was illegal for people to smoke at the bus stop less than 25 feet from the window of my mother's hospice window. Yes, you best believe I shooed them off from smoking there while she was dying of lung cancer. That said, houses are not public or commercial buildings so the restriction is not in force there.

 

One of the nice things about living in the middle of an apartment complex (a number of medium sized buildings connected by sidewalks, garden spaces, a playground and the parking lot) is that no one is allowed to smoke anywhere on the grounds. I love it.

Edited September 5, 2016 by LucyStoner

[eternalsummer]

On the whole I'm not a "call the police" person either, but if someone is doing something that annoys you but is legal, like say holding a sign or smoking in a legal area or yelling some obnoxious political slogan, and you respond by doing something *illegal*, like spitting on them or spraying them with a hose or a chemical or pushing them, you shouldn't be too surprised if the assaulted person calls the police.

[BigMamaBird]

I don't think you could get anywhere with calling the county about smoking.  But if they're just standing around out there you could probably call about loitering.

[eternalsummer]

Also, on the whole, I've found the police to be pretty reasonable people - possibly I've just been lucky in my interactions with them, but I've never personally seen them escalate a situation that didn't require escalation or anything like that.  

[eternalsummer]

And last one: 

 

If I were doing something legal, like smoking on a public sidewalk at the required distance from houses, or carrying a political sign, and someone sprayed me with a hose or sprayed the sidewalk at my feet (thus spraying me, that being the intention) with a chemical spray, I would probably (depending on the disposition and size of the assaulter) try to work it out with them.  My ideal resolution, in that situation, would be for them to quit assaulting me while I did something legal.  If they insisted that I could not smoke in a legal smoking area or carry my sign on public sidewalks, I would tell them that the next time they assaulted me I'd call the police, and I'd do it.

 

If you want the law changed so that people can't smoke within say 30 ft of your house instead of 20, or that they can't smoke outside at all, or that they can't carry a sign saying "Women Are Terrible" or something,  you'd have to campaign for that law change.  But I don't think you can insist that people follow your personal preferences instead of the law and then assault them (which is illegal) if they don't follow your preferences.

 

 

[Χά�ων]

I think I like the sprinkler idea...

This. I would set up motion sensors to turn it on.

 

I find the demands to smoke anywhere to be distrubing. Exposure to second hand smoke is the fastest way to land me in the ER, my right to breathe trumps anyone's addiction. Smoke in your own home, let the rest of us breathe.

[eternalsummer]

This. I would set up motion sensors to turn it on.

 

I find the demands to smoke anywhere to be distrubing. Exposure to second hand smoke is the fastest way to land me in the ER, my right to breathe trumps anyone's addiction. Smoke in your own home, let the rest of us breathe.

 

I don't think most smokers want to be able to smoke anywhere - just what is allowed according to the law.  (fwiw, I don't smoke)

 

If you want people to only be able to smoke in their homes, get that law passed :)  Until then, please don't assault people who are obeying the law.

 

eta: I would be surprised if your neighbors and the city (if you are in a populated area) didn't take exception to a sprinkler that sprays whoever is walking down the sidewalk every time they do it all day.  Surely someone (a non-smoker, even!) would complain and the city would ask you to change your system so the sprinklers don't get the sidewalk.

Edited September 5, 2016 by ananemone