Educate me about 4-H --

[poppy]

Background:

My 8 year old is looking to make friends. She has a hard time with this (social communication disorder). 

So I seek out structured clubs / activities.  She is a Girl Scout and enjoys that. She is animal obsessed.  So I thought "maybe 4H?"
Send an inquiry out and found out there is a semi-local club with a passionate leader. Great!  We signed up.

The leader is very into it, take it seriously. I know it's a volunteer role and I am grateful to have someone who is committed.

 

There are two "projects" that meet monthly.  Both animals that aren't livestock (I somehow thought 4-H was only farm animals).

We can do one or both.  Is it a huge commitment to do both?  It looks like two 1.5 hour meetings a week so not a big deal. Or am I underestimating?

 

Requirements:
"All Club Members must present at some point this year".  County level, or a school presentation or demonstration. What are the normal expectations for younger 4-Hers?

"All Club Members must complete at least one project record".

I think it's going to be really fun for her-but-I want to know what to expect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[itsheresomewhere]

It really depends on each 4H. It can be great to bad. If it were me, I would check both out ( try attending a few meetings of each) and make my decision based on how it goes. See if the groups are a good fit for your DD and you.

[fdrinca]

Yes, it's highly variable based on your unit. That would be like saying, "would public school be good for my daughter." 

 

We have several units in our area, and each seems to have a specialty (crafts, large animals, service).

[matrips]

I would only do one project the first year. The paperwork can be a bit much at the end if you're not used to spacing it out. The project book gets completed, a project report, portfolio, award application, demo or illustrated talk, and an exhibit. I was overwhelmed our first year (with three kids). This is our fourth year.

[magic]

We just finished up our daughter's 5th year in 4-H and my 4th year as a leader.  For the first year, I would recommend only one project- either livestock or a consumer/general project.  The first year is a real learning experience and it can take some time to get the feel for what is expected.  She can still try other projects and submit them in open class at the county or state fair but only have 1 project that is a 4-H project requiring a record book.  Every 4-H member is expected to give a demonstration but it isn't as bad as it sounds.  The younger kids usually do this later in the year once they have watched older members give demonstrations.  For a demonstration, one talks about something relating to one's project and it is a good idea to bring in at least one visual aid.  Animal demonstrations that I have seen are: how to make rabbit treats, how to tattoo an animal, what markings mean, how to clip animal's nails, diseases that an animal may be susceptible to, and more.   The options are endless and only need to be 2-3 minutes for a 1st year.  My daughter has given project demonstrations on how to make animal cupcakes, how to apply rhinestones, uses for washi tape, talked about a Dremel and it's uses, different ways to apply dye to clothing, how to use a die cut machine, uses for alcohol ink and more.  These demonstrations give the youth a chance to speak before a small group and share knowledge in a subject that they enjoy. 

 

No matter what she decides to do, keep track of all her practice projects, community service, demonstrations, workshops, and more (also take pictures of these)- it will be so much easier when it comes time to do the record book.  You can access an e-record for projects early so you can see what all is required.  4-H has been such a wonderful and rewarding experience for my daughter.  Her first year she did 2 projects and this past year (her 5th year) she did 7.  We will be driving down to the Colorado State Fair on Saturday to see 6 of her projects on display- 2 of which won Grand Champion at state.  My daughter had the opportunity to teen clerk at the state fair for a week in August while they did judging- all of her expenses were paid.  Every November she participates in a 3 day leadership camp in the mountains and it only costs us $10 a day.  My daughter is one of the most active members in the county and state but most are not nearly as active as she is.  It is up to you just how involved you want to be in 4-H.  I definitely recommend that you give it a try and see how you like it.

[Legomom]

My ds started doing presentations in 4-H when he was 10 years old. It has been a great experience and the speaking a presentation skills that he has acquired have been very helpful to him in other areas (science fair etc)

 

His club is very supportive and they do a great job of giving constructive feedback. The county also has a speech workshop to teach the kids how to speak and present. They have the opportunity to present from 1-4 times per year (county , state etc). As the others have mentioned it varies by club. Our county 4-H allows any topic as long as it fits into one of the 4-H subjects.

[FaithManor]

I can't speak to the animal sciences as we are uninvolved in that area. We lead a STEM club so it is a two hour time commitment once per month with homework to be completed for larger projects and lab reports. Since the "project books" that our county uses aren't actually all that great in format for science, we were able to opt out and produce our own record keeping requirements for the students.

 

For elementary age, that usually means not more than 30 min. to an hour beyond the monthly meeting. In the Middle school that doubles, and at the high school level it doubles again so maybe 3-3.5 or so hours in the month beyond the monthly project meeting. But if the student is wanting to really compete for Honors or Best of Show in our annual regional science fair, then they will receive individual mentoring and their time commitment would be more than that and especially leading up to the fair.

 

It is all very variable. Some states no longer even require the record keeping for non-animal projects. Club members in our state, particularly in our county, all have to keep records but it entirely depends on the subject matter and the superintendent of each department sets the standard. For animals of course a LOT is dictated from Michigan State University since their bio hazard and state regulations that must be followed, but for other areas the resource subject matter expert has a lot of leeway.

 

And of course there are some counties in which 4-H is simply not promoted and they don't have a program director or only a part time one. In those instances, generally there is not much organization and what is accomplished is very limited.

 

As an extension of our club, we have a competitive rocketry team and those kids put in a LOT of hours and then have travel to competition. This year they are doing Student Launch Initiative with NASA which is a college/post-college level aerospace engineering project for middle/high schools and universities. Their proposal document, due at the end of this month, will be somewhere between 50-100 pages of intensive proposal writing and scientific information. We had a 3 hour meeting last night, and next week they meet for 6 hours. The following week 8 hours, and the last week of September in order to do the final editing before submission, I would imagine the team as a whole will put in 8-10 hours and the young lady on the team who accepted the role of documentation editor will do more than that with her mom, a professional grant writer, putting in a few hours at the end to make sure every "i" is dotted, every "t" crossed, and then dh and I will take a final pass on all the scientific elements.

 

They will get a couple of weeks off while they find out if their proposal was accepted, and then they'll be back at it 4-6 hours per week until December. It will run 4-6 hrs. from there until they have to travel to a NAR/TRA launch site to test their full scale rocket and that week it will run 10 hours. They will have a short break, be back at the regular 4-6 hrs. and then the week before we travel to Huntsville spend many hours pulling together their engineering presentation and display followed by 5-6 days of travel. Very, very time intensive...similar to First Tech Challenge in that regard.

 

So on some levels and especially so if you are in a county with a very active 4-H program, how much time investment you make depends solely on what level of involvement you choose to pursue. We have kids who like our club and like the science projects but never compete in the science fiar, never display at the county fair, etc. We other families that are ALL IN and from a young age work hard to eventually earn a spot on the rocket team or the robotics team or to get that Best of Show in Ecology which is quite a feat given the parameters of what is required to impress that particular set of judges.

 

It is an "all depends" kind of thing.

[teachermom2834]

You got good info and I have nothing to add except that 4H in general is difficult to understand and get a foothold. We have been somewhat involved for about 5 years in two different counties and I still feel like I do t know what is what most days. I think the organization is so large and different agents and clubs run differently. Almost every 4H parent is frustrated at some point by confusion. My ds noticed that many of the kids who were very successful were from families that had participated in 4H for generations and really "got" it.

 

All that said, I think 4H is great!! We quit the first year simply out of confusion and I know others have too. But it is a great organization and the kids can experience so many things. So I encourage you to roll with it even if it is hard to understand at first. I try to attend all the meetings even though mine is old enough to drop off just so I can get the info firsthand. I also have some mom friends with older kids that are useful contacts.

 

4H is great!

[FaithManor]

You got good info and I have nothing to add except that 4H in general is difficult to understand and get a foothold. We have been somewhat involved for about 5 years in two different counties and I still feel like I do t know what is what most days. I think the organization is so large and different agents and clubs run differently. Almost every 4H parent is frustrated at some point by confusion. My ds noticed that many of the kids who were very successful were from families that had participated in 4H for generations and really "got" it.

 

All that said, I think 4H is great!! We quit the first year simply out of confusion and I know others have too. But it is a great organization and the kids can experience so many things. So I encourage you to roll with it even if it is hard to understand at first. I try to attend all the meetings even though mine is old enough to drop off just so I can get the info firsthand. I also have some mom friends with older kids that are useful contacts.

 

4H is great!

Yes, this. And every state is basically autonomous and run by your Big Ag university, and then every county has a lot of leeway too which means that it can be quite difficult to get it all figured out, and especially when you move because it won't necessarily come close to being the same. It is also heavily influenced by local culture and business. Agriculture is 30% of the local economy, and as such, one of 4-H's largest donors locally which means that livestock and horticulture clubs have a lot of money, and the fine arts and STEM clubs struggle. 

 

We make it easy for our parents. We take care of a huge amount of the paperwork, and clearly define every project. By in large, we are pretty removed from the day to day of the extension office and have nothing to do with the livestock committees which can be surprisingly political and contentious. We just kind of "do our thing'. It seems to work, LOL.

 

There is a 4H National Council but to be honest with you they function more as a figurehead for ideology. Several years ago there was a big STEM push and their motto was "A Million New Scientists by 2013". They had absolutely NO idea how to accomplish anything, and their only real scientific pursuit is that national council partners with Toyota and a few other big donors to produce an annual science project The National Youth Science Day project. The kits are usually designed by a big name university. This year it is Cornell. They advertise it big time, but offer the states and counties very little direction beyond "do the project". We wanted to do the project with 30 kids and had to beg our local 4-H Council for the money to buy the kits. So there can be big ideas, but not necessarily too much help with them. The one area that national tends to shine is the recognition of volunteerism on the part of 4H kids. They have some scholarships for that. They did institute a STEM scholarship, but also didn't advertise it properly or push very hard. So they need to work harder on that. National Council, to the average leader and program director, is the entity sittingin DC or wherever that publishes a nice newsletter once per month, LOL.  I am not certain how to change that. I am not even certain who they go about choosing what goes into it. Our team placed 2nd in the nation  which is an absolutely HUGE accomplishment and never received so much as a sentence by 4H Council in their highlights and while they received certificates of congressional achievement from Michigan senators and Congresspersons as well as the state legislature, and accolades from Michigan State University, they have not received so much as an email from National. Staggers.the.imagination! 

 

At any rate, for the most part, you can kind of pick your level of involvement and how much you want to accomplishment. It is very helpful to try to get a family that has been in it a long time to mentor you through the first year or two because yes, long term involvement does equal specific knowledge that isn't always handed down by the program director/extension office or the leader. From a leader perspective, one has to remember that it is a volunteer army where the work load is heavy, the paperwork a nightmare, and one gets virtually no encouragement from above so many leaders are just trying to keep their heads above water which makes it difficult to mentor newbies. When we have new ones in our club, as much as we really, really try to help them acclimate and learn the ropes, we actually assign an experienced family to work with the new parents.

[Wheres Toto]

I run a 4-H STEM club in NJ and used to run a Cloverbud club.  At 8 years old (3rd grade?) your daughter might be a Cloverbud depending on where your state cuts-off.  The requirements are usually easier for Cloverbuds - shorter presentation, easier record book, etc.  My daughter just graduated from Cloverbuds at our County Fair.

 

Since we are a STEM club, we don't do one overall project as a club.  The kids can choose what they would like to do (if they would like to, we didn't push record books last year since it was our first year and many were new to 4-H) and we will assist.  We meet twice a month and do different things each meeting.  I think I'm going to have them start keeping records for what we do at the meetings.  I agree with Faith above - the support for STEM is weak.  I've been scouring the internet trying to find some samples or suggestions for record books and there's very little.  The animal books are so straight-forward but I feel clueless on how to advise my kids.  My county office is generally pretty good (although slow to answer emails) but we are the first STEM club, the closest thing they had before were nature clubs, and most of those are pretty casual from what I can tell.

 

I did have kids do projects for Fair.  Doing a record book/project is not required to enter Fair in my county (you do have to do a book to get County awards).  I had one kid do science (my dd) but then I had fine arts (a comic strip), photography, writing, and childcare entries.  My club did win Best in Show for our club display and banner.

 

I think 4-H is great but it will definitely depend on your leaders, your county office and what you want out of it.

 

[J-rap]

As others have said, each club can vary.  Ours was pretty casual and relaxed, but its members still felt a sense of community with each other.  In our club, 8 years old is still in the younger group called "Cloverbuds," which might be a good place to begin for your daughter since it's more casual.   That's when my youngest kids began.

 

One thing many 4-Her's (especially newbys -- those whose families weren't in it in the past so they don't know much about it, like us!) seem to have in common is that it all feels very confusing at first!  There are so many random things that can be part of it, and what to do isn't clear (because so much is NOT required).  But my suggestion is not to worry about all of that:  just jump in and over time you'll figure out what you're doing.

 

This was our experience in a nutshell:  (Again, this varies by club.)

 

Club meetings run during the school year, once/month.  Parents can come too, and actually are encouraged to come.  These meetings are run in a professional meeting form, with student members as officers.  They usually last around 30 minutes, with announcements, old business, new business, and a project demonstration or two.  A project demonstration is when a student member volunteers to explain either a fair project she is working on, or almost anything else, really!  They usually last about 5 minutes.  After that is refreshments and maybe an activity.  (In the fall, it might be pumpkin carving, for example.)

 

Other than that, there is actually not much else that goes on during the school year, unless the club chooses to be involved in something else.  Ours would serve dinner for a charity fundraiser once/year.  It would also get involved in the county's "Spring Fling," which is when each club creates a skit which the members perform that follows a certain theme.  It is usually about 10 minutes long, and they are all performed on one day and then judged.  It's just for fun.

 

Spring/summer are the busy times when members decide what projects they want to enter into the county fair.  There are many categories, but you can generally pick almost anything at all and then find a category it fits under.  It might be baking, sewing, an art project, growing a flower, arranging flowers, designing a poster that shows how a cow digests its food, creating something interesting out of legos, growing produce or raising an animal (farm or domestic), dog obedience, and a billion other things.  Most kids begin by deciding just a couple projects, but we knew some long-timers who would do 30 projects at once. 

 

Many projects my kids did were also school projects.  That is, they were projects that we decided ahead of time would be used for both homeschool and the county fair.  For example, one year we were studying pioneers, and my daughter made a miniature sod house.  This was both a school project and a 4-H project.

 

The kids display their projects at the local county fair in the summer, and that is the highlight of the entire year.  That's when they present their projects to a judge, are asked questions about it, and are awarded a ribbon.  (They have small dollar rewards attached.)  For kids who are in projects with their animals, there will be shows during this time where they show their animals.  These are fun to watch.  During county fair days, the kids usually hang out at the county fair all day, sometimes work in the 4-H food booth (a little county fair restaurant), and just run around with other 4-Hers.  If their project is awarded a Grand Champion reward (there might be others too, I can't quite remember), then they are invited to display their project at the state fair later in the summer. 

 

In our state, displaying projects at the state fair is a huge deal.  The club usually hires a bus to take the kids if the families can't, and they get to stay overnight in an almost 100-year-old dorm right on the fair grounds.  (Another club highlight here.)  It's very well chaperoned.  The kids are not required to bring their projects to the state fair though if they don't want to, and they are not required to stay in the dorm.

 

There are project records (the paper reports that tell about your project) that are turned in after the fairs.  In many clubs they are required;  in ours they are not.

 

One other aspect is that sometimes the club will sponsor classes and other events that help students along with their projects.  These are not required and you can do projects completely independently too (and not attend project classes and events).  We mostly did our projects independently.  But, sometimes they are fun and helpful.  We attended a few.  We did the dog obedience one;  it was much easier to work on dog training with a trainer twice/week then doing it on our own!  We also took part in a club fashion show, where the kids met with a sewing instructor ahead of time a couple times for any guidance they needed, and then modeled their finished project (which they would eventually be displaying at the county fair) in a fashion show for club members and families.  This was a lot of fun too!  The first time my daughter did this, she had sewn a straight tube skirt on a toy sewing machine!  Ha, so you definitely don't need to be an expert to be involved in these things.  

 

One neat thing about 4-H is that the whole family is very much involved.  It's not like other clubs where you just drop your child off.  The parent(s) is usually actively involved in it in one form or another as well, and is generally at the events with the child.  Also, a parent might offer to teach a project class (even just a one-afternoon class) if they have a special expertise.  Or they may volunteer to work with the kids on their Spring Fling skit, or be a judge's assistant at the county fair, or work at the food booth at the county fair.

 

Anyway, that's a quick rundown for you on our club experience.  Hope it helps!

[teachermom2834]

One thing that has worked for our family with 4H is that in the clubs we have been in you can set your own commitment level.  You can make it your primary extracurricular activity and spend tons of time or you can just come when it is convenient.  My oldest ds loved his 4H experience but he was a competitive athlete so 4H just fit in around that.  He was still able to do alot of cool things even though he wasn't "all in".

 

Our county group is very into agriculture. We are total city folks.  We don't even have a dog let alone chickens or a goat.  We moved from a county that had a club that was STEM and citizenship focused so we know there are other things to do outside of ag.  So my ds is kind of going to create his own 4H experience within his club and won't be able to rely on alot of the ready made projects for the ag kids.  That is okay.  There is the freedom in 4H to do that.  Ds went to two 4H summer camps and had a great time.  In our area 4H is very affordable.  He had a sponsorship from a local company for one camp and scholarships are available to the other.  4H provided bus transportation.  It is one of the most affordable things we have been involved with.

[magic]

I wanted to add that my daughter was the first in our family to be part of 4-H and I wish that we had encouraged our boys to be part of it when they were younger.  Neither my husband nor I were in 4-H but my mother-in-law was for a while when she was younger.  I remember going to the fair when I was younger and wanting so much to be part of 4-H but never was.  When we started our 4-H journey with our daughter, we had no idea  what was going on but I would talk to our club leader and the local extension office to find information.  We also took advantage of all the workshops we could so we would have some idea what was going on and what to expect.  After 1 year, I became a project leader and am now the assistant club leader as well as the leader for multiple projects.  I put on workshops throughout the year and am constantly working with the extension office to find ways to get information out there and find new ways to teach youth.  Even though our boys have never been in 4-H, they still come to most of the 4-H activities with our family and cheer on the 4-H'ers at competitions. 

[poppy]

Thank you!   I'm taking this all in.
I think may daughter will take one project, maybe both. 

She is not a cloverbud- in my state, cloverbuds are 5-7. I wanted my son to be involved (he's 6) but this club doesn't accept clover buds.

The projects options I have are cats and bees.  We have a cat and may get bees in the future, so, both very practical for us!

[magic]

Margaret in CO, my daughter was the teen clerk for the STEAM 3 sewing/ specialty clothing and she said that there were many great projects this year.  We are doing to Pueblo tomorrow to see everything.  Congratulations to your daughter on her projects.  My daughter was thrilled this year to receive Grand Champion in Home Environment and Scrapbooking, 3rd in Quilting and Photography, and 5th in cookies.  It was a good year for her and she has also had to switch to teaching some classes instead of taking them because she already knows what is being taught.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I agree very highly variable, but it really wasn't a huge commitment in our experience.

 

It's not just farming.  They are all about pretty much everything and anything.  Individual groups and individuals within groups can opt to focus on a wide variety of things. 

[IfIOnly]

Ask about required fundraising. A photography club my kids were involved required several fundraisers, which was something we hadn't experienced in 4-H though my kids had participated in archery, robotics, and dog training. We dropped that club right quick! Ugh.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah believe or not even 4H sells cookies!  In our group it was voluntary.  I bought some, but I didn't sell any to anyone and that was fine.

 

 

[IfIOnly]

That's great you could pass. These ladies were all gung ho. Lol. Such a different environment than I'm used to and that I really didn't care for.

 

Eta: really nice people and the club topic would have been so great, but...

Edited September 2, 2016 by ifIonlyhadabrain

[magic]

Margaret, I will probably stalk you as well.  I am so proud of all the 4-H'ers and how well they do.  Tell your daughter congratulations!  It is a 4 hour drive each way to Pueblo for us but my daughter really wants to go and I only have 1 day that will work.  We probably have several connections that cross- my son has multiple friends and former classmates at University of Wyoming and Colorado School of Mines. 

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by magic

[FaithManor]

I was really surprised by a county near us--yes, they're small, but even with that, the kids didn't do well. I think they need some new blood in their leaders down there!

Hey...here too. We have several leaders and department superintendents that are doing nothing but resting on their laurels. It always pays for new families to ask around and find out who the leaders are that are getting the job done. Don't just default to the group geographically closest. Get references, check them out.

[Laurel-in-CA]

Thank you!   I'm taking this all in.

I think may daughter will take one project, maybe both. 

She is not a cloverbud- in my state, cloverbuds are 5-7. I wanted my son to be involved (he's 6) but this club doesn't accept clover buds.

The projects options I have are cats and bees.  We have a cat and may get bees in the future, so, both very practical for us!

 

Bees are expensive....hive and setup over $300 and lots of daily care. But oh, how much the kids learn. Our county speech medal-winner was a bee boy and he had a wonderful presentation.

 

Cats might be the place to start, and I second the 1 project the first year idea. You can get very science-y with even small animal projects (we had rabbits in our suburban back yard.) The first year, a lot of it is finding your way through a green fog, figuring out how 4H works, how your county and club work, what to keep track of and how, what you need to prepare in advance for (like practicing your presentation locally first, fair entry dates, local competitions, etc.). My son, who hated having to do presentations in 4H -- I MADE him -- recycled almost every presentation he'd ever done as part of his lower division speech class. He medaled at state his final year, talking about wind power.

 

Leadership opportunities are there for younger kids and expand greatly as they grow up in the program. I think 4H does leadership development well, at least the structure is there and then if your club leader sees your kids as willing, they'll put them (and you) to work. But not all the first year, of course. My older kids were junior and senior project co-leaders, planned 4H camp activities, bought supplies and led workshops. My oldest is now a project leader with the group where she started her first project @ 9yo.

 

4H can eat your life, too, though, so don't be afraid to start slow and consider the commitment levels.

[mschickie]

Yeah believe or not even 4H sells cookies!  In our group it was voluntary.  I bought some, but I didn't sell any to anyone and that was fine.

 

Dh would love to find some place that still sells the cookies.  Around here only one county still does. He says they are the best!

 

 

Dd belongs to a 4-h group that is a very loose group.  The focus is on horses and the kids compete in both horse bowl and hippology contests.  This past year was dd's 2nd year and she qualified for both the state horse bowl and hippology contests in the junior division.  Her team actually came in 3rd at the state horse bowl event.   This year we also have branched out to showing a cavy (guinea pig) so she is learning how to do that.  She also submitted a couple of projects she did on her own to the county fair.  Her poem was actually selected to be shown at the state fair which was pretty cool (not sure if it got judged at the state fair, as of Sunday it had not).

 

The key to 4-H is pretty much like any extra-curricular, just find a group that fits your child.  Oh and if you are close to a county border you can register for 4-H in a different county than you reside in.  We are part of a group to the east of our county because our leader really likes their fair better.