Would you feel like you owe this a/c guy anything?

[Janeway]

Long story...

 

A month ago maybe, we had an a/c guy out to service our a/c. He came out saying that the reason our upstairs unit was so sluggish and not working properly was that it was leaking freon and needed to be replaced. The house is 13 yrs old. He also claimed there was something faulty and that the a/c was a fire hazard and a health hazard and needed to be replaced right away, pointing out that we have small children and wouldn't want to take risks with them. After he left, we noticed the downstairs a/c was not working. I was highly suspicious. I then went to our town board on FB and asked advice. I told what happened and I was told that this particular a/c guy was very trustworthy and they would trust him with anything. And that he is very busy and would not try to sell us a new system unless we needed it. There were 5 or 6 people who said that. A few people I knew also said they used him. So, I figured the downstairs a/c going out was a fluke and called the guy back and gave him the go ahead to replace the system. It was about $10K. Sadly, it was not 10k at the original estimate, it was less than that and he had said he would take off what I paid for the service call and take off an additional part if I do both up and down at the same time. So it should have been 9k. 

 

He comes out with his group of people and puts the new units in. It took them just a few hours and they were done before noon. That afternoon, our house climbed to about 90 degrees. I texted him telling him and asking him to come back out and check. He did not. He said it takes time to get working. I texted again. He refused to come. I finally went back to FB after a few more hours and posted about what was going on, along with the screen shots to show his refusal to come out. Within 30 minutes, he calls me, all upset over the FB post and wants to come out and look. He comes out and says it is all fine, I just need to be patient, and to take down the FB post. I did not. Instead, I went to a neighbor who is a legal person and her husband is an executive in a company that works in the frigeration field, but at a corporate level. They came over and took a look around. They realized the guy had instead the wrong sized unit for upstairs. He put in a 2 ton unit for 2000 square feet (our upstairs is 2000 square feet alone) and 12 foot ceilings. Our original unit was 3.5 tons. He looked up the guy's licensing and then we contacted the guy again and told him to either fix it, or come Monday morning, we were contacting the contractors board in our state and taking legal action. I still had not taken down the FB post. The guy returned in the morning. We all slept downstairs pretty much. We did get one free standing a/c unit going upstairs so we were able to cool a room upstairs enough to be able to use it that night. That was Friday night.

 

Saturday morning, he comes out and with the help of my neighbors, they got him to agree to replace the upstairs unit. But he still shorted it and only put in a 3 ton unit. In the process of trying to get him to do something, he got angry with us and told us that the non-working a/c was not his problem and he tried to argue that he had ordered the same as we had before, that was how he determined 2 ton was enough. BUT, my husband had actually taken pictures of the original units before they were taken out and we showed the guy he did not trade them like for like. It also turned out, the guy thought our old units were lower seer than they were. He got very angry with us and said he would only try to fix this if I take down the FB post. I did. I took it down. And he replaced it, with only a 3 ton. By afternoon, it was 85 degrees upstairs. Our bedrooms are upstairs. I text him to let him know and he informs me I am just not a patient person and it takes time for an a/c to work. This is just not true.

 

Monday, I call a lawyer. The lawyer tells me to stop payment on the credit card. This lawyer seemed inpatient and rushed so I did not stop payment yet. Later on Monday, I called a different lawyer. He took more time to talk to me. And he told me to bring in another a/c company to access things. And then to cancel the credit card payment. And get everything in writing from the second a/c company. I did that. And I was surprised what I found out.

 

Let me back up, first a/c guy also now says we only have a 3 ton compatible furnace and need to replace our furnace and that is why our a/c is not working right and we need to pay him for what too.

 

OK..new a/c guy comes out and says not only do we have 2 furnaces up there, but both are higher than 3 ton, one is 4 and one is 5. And both are in excellent condition and neither needs to be replaced. AND, new guy comes proceeds to check all around the house and uses a laser thingy to measure our room volumes. He then goes home and plugs everything in to his computer and finds that we need a minimum of a 3.5 ton a/c unit upstairs and he would personally recommend a 4 ton. The upstairs needs to be re-done. As far as downstairs, he cannot comment to whether it ever needed replacing, or even if the upstairs needed replacing. We then called our old a/c company that we used to use for servicing and they looked over notes from our records and they said there was no evidence that the downstairs a/c ever needed replacing. It never leaked freon, never had trouble keeping up, etc. The first second guy put what he said in writing, the second second guy (original ac company) did not want to get involved in anything legal so they declined to put that in writing. 

 

Also, one more thing, just before the guy started installing the new a/c, we discovered that the switch to the downstairs unit was turned off, that is why it had stopped working. But the a/c guy said it was too late to cancel as he already had the units delivered and besides, our a/c is defective anyway and a fire hazard. I was so shocked by it and did not know my rights so I did not argue anymore. 

 

It is clear that the first a/c guy was putting a bunch over on us. And he did not know how to do his job. I do not even see how he could have passed tests to become certified, I suspect it was falsified. I suspect it was falsified based on the other 2 a/c companies and the neighbor telling me that this a/c guy really is lacking in knowledge on how to do his job.

 

We contested the payment on the a/c that we made through the credit card and are counting the portion we paid for by check as a loss. PLUS, when he charged it to the credit card, he charged more than we had initially agreed by a few hundred dollars. 

 

Now my neighbor, the one who helped us initially, in visiting with me thinks I should let first a/c guy correct the upstairs unit or at least pay him for the downstairs unit and return the unusable upstairs unit to the guy. My lawyer and I disagree. I am willing to return the upstairs unit to the guy, but I want a different company to install the upstairs unit. I do not want to deal with the first guy ever again. However, I want everything to be settled financially with the first guy before I pay a another company to come out and first the mistakes. I am worried if I hire another company to come out, that a court could order that I have to pay the first guy the full amount and let him fix it. 

 

So, my opinion is, I do not owe the first guy any money at all, and I should be released from all obligation from him so I can go to a different company to replace the upstairs a/c. I do not feel I owe him for the downstairs a/c unless he can return my original a/c to original working order, because it seems he was not qualified to decide it needed to be replaced and there is evidence of sabotage to the old unit. He cannot return the old unit, so, it needs to be left alone. My lawyer, the one I am paying, not the neighbor, agrees with me. But my neighbor is a little upset and feels I need to at least pay him for the downstairs and return the upstairs unit to him, at bare minimum. 

 

I feel that the guy sabotaged my downstairs a/c (likely) and then started angling for replacing the furnace. I am worried my heat won't work come winter. I don't know what in all he messed up in my house! And I do not feel obligated to have him here ever again. I sent him a notice that we can both walk from this, and I won't post any reviews online or on FB if he leaves us alone, but he will not get any more money from us. This was after he was informed that we had contested the payment with the credit card company. He has not responded, but it is possible that he took the reference to leaving us alone and no more contact to mean he should not come back with an answer. 

 

What would you think? What would you do? I do not think I owe him money. And since the neighbor is not my lawyer that I am paying to handle this, I finally just said "sure, of course" to her rather than continue to argue. 

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Sorry you are in this situation.  I would follow your paid lawyer's advice and telll the neighbor that you do appreciate her help, but now the situation is being handled by lawyers and you are not sure how it will all turn out.

[Hunter's Moon]

I agree with Pam.

 

Follow your lawyer's advice exactly.

 

Honestly, I think you went above and beyond when it came to giving that guy time to remedy the situation. He either didn't want to admit his mistake, or he knowingly pulled one over on you (which seems more likely).

[Jean in Newcastle]

If you hire legal advice, then you should follow the advice given. 

[gardenmom5]

 

 

Now my neighbor, the one who helped us initially, in visiting with me thinks I should let first a/c guy correct the upstairs unit or at least pay him for the downstairs unit and return the unusable upstairs unit to the guy. 

 

no.  way.   in.   h3ll!

is there a relationship between your neighbor and scam-a/c-guy?

[Eagle]

The scam guy would never set foot in my house again. He had multiple opportunities to fix the situation and he didn't.

[trulycrabby]

Sorry you are in this situation. I would follow your paid lawyer's advice and telll the neighbor that you do appreciate her help, but now the situation is being handled by lawyers and you are not sure how it will all turn out.

I think you should say exactly what Pam L in Mid Tenn recommended to anyone who asks. Very polite yet to the point.

[Mimm]

Lawyer over neighbor! I wouldn't give two figs what your neighbor thought and if your neighbor brings it up, tell him you are following your lawyer's advice.

[TABmom]

I agree! Follow the lawyer's advice!

[DawnM]

Follow the lawyer's advice. No reason to hire someone if you aren't even going to take the advice.

Edited August 20, 2016 by DawnM

[SproutMamaK]

Agreeing with the others, you should follow your lawyer's advice.

[TravelingChris]

Follow the lawyers advice.

[Ailaena]

 

I was wondering how this would turn out for you guys, I'm so glad you got a lawyer and are getting things straight. As far as I'm concerned, everyone else is right about following the lawyer's advice. Fwiw, I'm totally with you and the lawyer: You don't owe the first guy anything at all - not even access to your property for any reason.

 

Maybe your neighbor would change his mind if he were the one to be inconvenienced...

[moonsong]

Unless your neighbor has money in this I'm wondering why he thinks he has an opinion that matters.

[JFSinIL]

Follow the lawyer's advice. In future, get more than one estimate from folks when looking to replace a major appliance, and/or use Angie's List or similar to check reputations, even BBB to check out contractors.

[katilac]

Follow your lawyer's advice. If he thinks you have no legal obligation to pay, I certainly think you have no moral obligation to pay, and no way would I let him touch anything. 

 

Use a response like Pam L's to neighbor and anyone else. Do not, by any means, agree with them in order to end the conversation. 

[luuknam]

Nope, I would not feel I owed the first guy anything, and I certainly would not want him to 'fix' anything at this point anymore. I'd even feel inclined to keep the too-small unit and sell it to pay for my legal fees and the hassle, rather than return it to him.

 

ETA: and I would want to report him to BBB, and leave reviews up on the internet, etc. But, do follow your lawyer's advice. The above is just about how *I* feel about the situation, not about what the law says or w/e.

Edited August 21, 2016 by luuknam

[Catalytic]

Follow the lawyer's advice. In future, get more than one estimate from folks when looking to replace a major appliance, and/or use Angie's List or similar to check reputations, even BBB to check out contractors.

 

JMO, but Angie's List is pure junk.  Granted, my house is in a small town area, but the ONLY contractors that are on there are ones who pay.  The ones who don't pay aren't on there.  Angie's List is biased and a huge waste of money imo.  (And apparently, I'm not the only one with this opinion, as I got an email yesterday regarding Moore v Angie's List.)

 

In addition, signing up automatically puts you on auto-renew, and trying to cancel before it auto-renews is a freaking nightmare.  Selecting Membership Cancellation in their Contact Us menu logs me out of the site and puts a grey box over the form.  (Which means I have to find time to make a phone call during their business hours, and quite frankly right now, I have zero free time during the day)

 

 

[PhotoGal]

You aren't in the bay area of CA, are you? Something similar happened to us when we lived there. The first group of people came out, said the A/C and furnace should both be replaced (actually said the furnace might start shooting flames out the side?!). They did something to our A/C to make it work temporarily and then fail again. Because the first guy seemed so sketchy, I called a different guy to come check it out. It turned out that the first guys did not refill the coolant (freon?) properly - either due to incompetence or (I suspect) to make it fail again so we would agree to replace it. The second guy fixed it and said it didn't need to be replaced at all. Also, he said the furnace was in great shape. 

 

I did write a negative review on Yelp about the first guy and a positive for the second. I still saw the first guys' trucks around the neighborhood sometimes and it always made me grumble!