Literature for a kid who hates to read or Literature isn't that important anyway, is it?

[DragonFaerie]

DS (8th grade) is a total math/science guy. He does not like to read except for a select few books (I'm looking at you, Harry Potter!).  He won't even read books or magazines about things he's interested in (he loves fishing, asked for a fishing magazine subscription for his birthday, never read a single issue).  He likes animals, so I thought he'd love The Jungle Book. He hated it. Cheaper By the Dozen is funny!  He hated it. Treasure Island! Surely pirates and treasure hunting would be fun!  He hates it.  I'm about to just throw my hands up in frustration and not care if he reads or not.  We work on grammar and writing separately, so he is getting those things, but I have no idea how to find literature that keeps him engaged. Then again, he wants to be some type of engineer, so perhaps reading great literature isn't all that important for him anyway. Not everybody is born to read. Is there a way to teach him what he needs to know for a math/science career without forcing him to read novel after novel that he hates? Could we skip literature altogether, or would that be doing him a tremendous disservice? Is there a way to teach the necessary skills without using literature to do it? Help!!

[marbel]

I'm almost afraid to say this here, particularly as the first response, but... I have a friend (really a person I know, not a person I know of) who didn't force her lit-hating child to read any. No literary analysis in his life at all.   He ended up with an MBA and a great job.  He also has a brilliant wife who, IIRC, likes literature, and is having a happy life. 

 

But you know - my kids hated The Jungle Book, and I didn't think Cheaper by the Dozen was good at all, and Treasure Island can be hard.   So, maybe cast your net a little wider?  

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by marbel

[hellen]

My BIL is a super smart engineer who hates reading.

 

I think it's okay to skip literary analysis. I despise literary analysis. I also think most kids aren't ready for the classics at a young age. Sometimes we force these books on kids who don't have the life experience to really get much out of it.

 

If my kid hated reading, I would probably have him listen to a few audio books per year and call it good. Maybe I would have him watch movies eventually of some of the classics.

[Farrar]

I think kids need to be exposed to some literary analysis... but honestly, I think it's a bit like calculus. Everyone will use math. Everyone will use reading. Everyone who can should be exposed to lit analysis. Everyone who can should be exposed to doing calculus. But... it's not going to be a long term needed skill for everyone. And it's okay if it's not the emphasis. Especially in middle school.

 

I strongly agree with casting a wider net. Those aren't books that spring to mind for me as potential winners for a math/science lover.

 

I would focus on nonfiction reading skills since those are going to serve him better long term in a practical way.

 

For literature, I'd try science fiction definitely. Might he enjoy things like Wrinkle in Time, George's Secret Key, Day of the Tripods, Ender's Game, The Time Machine, etc. etc.? And fantasy since he liked Harry Potter. Have you tried some of the other good Harry Potter level of world building series with him? Things like the Bartimaeus trilogy or Gregor the Overlander? And what about dystopians? Might he enjoy The Giver? I would also do more short stories than novels for sure. Ray Bradbury, for one.

[DragonFaerie]

I think kids need to be exposed to some literary analysis... but honestly, I think it's a bit like calculus. Everyone will use math. Everyone will use reading. Everyone who can should be exposed to lit analysis. Everyone who can should be exposed to doing calculus. But... it's not going to be a long term needed skill for everyone. And it's okay if it's not the emphasis. Especially in middle school.

 

I strongly agree with casting a wider net. Those aren't books that spring to mind for me as potential winners for a math/science lover.

 

I would focus on nonfiction reading skills since those are going to serve him better long term in a practical way.

 

For literature, I'd try science fiction definitely. Might he enjoy things like Wrinkle in Time, George's Secret Key, Day of the Tripods, Ender's Game, The Time Machine, etc. etc.? And fantasy since he liked Harry Potter. Have you tried some of the other good Harry Potter level of world building series with him? Things like the Bartimaeus trilogy or Gregor the Overlander? And what about dystopians? Might he enjoy The Giver? I would also do more short stories than novels for sure. Ray Bradbury, for one.

 

 

I'm not familiar with much of anything that you've listed here except  Wrinkle in Time (which he didn't like) and The Giver (which he did).  Do you have author's names or book titles that I could look up? 

 

Thanks so much, everybody, for the suggestions and encouragement!  He does read before bed every night, but I've always just let him choose whatever for that.  He always chooses Harry Potter, one of Judy Blume's Fudge books, or My Side of the Mountain.  LOL...  Maybe I could just insist that he pick something new to read and leave it at that.  We can always do small bits of literary analysis using short stories or poems or something in high school.  Oh, I feel so much better now!  Thank you!!

[hellen]

You could try the Wings of Fire series or Rick Riordan books.

 

I'll ask my son later for more ideas.

[MerryAtHope]

I agree with the others about casting a wider net. I never cared for Jungle book, and I think the other two can be difficult for a student who doesn't really like to read (they were read-alouds here). I would (and did) require daily reading for 30 minutes. I don't do formal lit. analysis at this age--we just talk about what interests us. "What's going on in your book?" etc... and talk about decisions characters make, would you make the same decision (why or why not), and things like that. If a book has glaring symbolism I bring it up (Wolves of Willoughby Chase--ie, why are there "wolves" in the title since the literal wolves in the book play a minor role? WHO are the wolves? etc...), or if I'm reading a book aloud that uses wonderfully descriptive language or a love a metaphor etc..., I'd point it out--but I didn't see that as a "main" focus, just something to enhance our enjoyment. You may need to approach lit. mainly through read-alouds and/or audio books for awhile, but I do think it has significance. This article, in the section on "What Literature Is Good for" does a great job of explaining one of the great values of literature--helping us grow in empathy, and seeing from the inside how someone different from us thinks etc...

 

 

[hellen]

My son recommends the Pendragon series and Inheritance Cycle series.

 

Besides Harry Potter, what else does your son like? I realized my husband likes books about poor or disadvantaged boys who grow up and become heroes. My son, on the other hand, prefers books with humor. If we could find a common link among the books he likes, we might be more successful with recommendations. You could also just ask him to describe why he likes certain books.

[DragonFaerie]

My son recommends the Pendragon series and Inheritance Cycle series.

 

Besides Harry Potter, what else does your son like? I realized my husband likes books about poor or disadvantaged boys who grow up and become heroes. My son, on the other hand, prefers books with humor. If we could find a common link among the books he likes, we might be more successful with recommendations. You could also just ask him to describe why he likes certain books.

 

He likes precious little besides the few I mentioned, Harry, Fudge, and My Side of the Mountain.  Oh, and Where the Red Fern Grows.  I've been trying to get him to read Eragon for ages but he's resisting for some reason.  He'd really just rather not read at all if he had his way.

[Lori D.]

First, totally agree with Marbel. ?

Plus, a LOT of traditional classics are old and hard to use as your intro to Literature:
- old, hard vocabulary
- old complex/different sentence structure
- old culture that doesn't click with contemporary kids
- old ideas and themes
- subtly-written rather than on the surface so hard to get into and understand what it's about

More recent young adult works might be a better fit to start out.

Second -- slightly worrisome is the fact that  he won't even read non-fiction or on topics of high interest. Any possibility that he needs his vision checked (glasses), or has a very mild undiagnosed vision tracking issue or stealth dyslexia that makes reading uncomfortable and not pleasant? Just to rule those things out, you might get him evaluated...

Third: in answer to "could we skip literature altogether" - Looking ahead to high school, in order to meet high school graduation requirements, but even more importantly, college admission requirements, you DO need to have 4 credits (years) of English in high school.

Typically, each credit of English is 1/2 Writing and 1/2 Literature, but there are ways of reducing the amount of Literature by increasing the amount of Writing and types of Writing, and to include "specialty" programs or topics that can cover parts of the English credit -- like:

- Movies as Literature program (teaches analysis/discussion used with Literature by starting with films)
- up to 0.5 credit of Public Speaking
- 1.0 credit of some sort of specialty writing: Journalism; Technical Writing; Creative Writing

And while it might be very non-standard, I suppose you could skip Literature entirely and do 4 years of very focused Composition and specialty Writing, esp. something like Technical Writing which is a fantastic support field to the STEM fields -- a fairly high demand job, too. ?

HOWEVER, yes, I do think you would do DS a disservice if you don't do at least a LITTLE bit of Literature (reading of classic lit and discussion, analysis, and writing about the lit.) in high school as prep for college, because everyone going for an Associate's or a Bachelor's degree has some specific general ed. credits they have to take -- which always includes 2 semesters of Writing 101 and 102 -- which involves reading of some Literature and discussing/writing about it. JMO, but that would be pretty painful for college to be your very first exposure to those processes.

For an 8th grader, I think I would select some interesting young adult works to together read/discuss (without beating the life out of the works). Also include some short stories, which often have all the depth and discuss-ability of longer works -- and have the added attraction of being short. 

Ideas for how to do lit:
- Pick works that are much more likely to be of high interest (contemporary authors, young adult works).
- Do it together, reading aloud alternate pages, or listen together to audio book.
- For a few books, watch a movie version and then compare/contrast for your discussion or written output  -- The Giver, The Hunger Games, and Ender's Game all had movie versions come out in the last 2-3 years

-  Possibly host a monthly book club with other middle schoolers for a few high-interest tween/young teen books -- sometimes peer pressure works in your favor. ?

- Outsource it -- sign up for a few of the Brave Writer Boomerang Club books (here's the 2016-17 list -- for a non-reader, I'd suggest Miss Peregrine, Divergent, and possibly To Kill a Mockingbird) -- and together read aloud or listen together (to make sure the book gets READ ? ), and then DS has his discussion online with the class

Some possible book and guide ideas for 8th grade lit: 
Animal Farm (Orwell)
The Giver (Lowry)-- Garlic Press Discovering Lit. guide; Portals to Lit. guide; Progeny Press guide
The Westing Game (Raskin) -- Blackbird & Co. guide
Call of the Wild (London) -- Glencoe Lit. Library guide, Portals to Lit. guide
Tuck Everlasting (Babbitt) -- Glencoe Lit. Library guide
The Cay (Taylor) -- Progeny Press guide
Island of the Blue Dolphins (O'Dell) -- Glencoe Lit. Library guide; Garlic Press Discovering Lit. guide; Progeny Press guide
Maniac Magee (Spinnelli) -- Progeny Press guide

And some good starting short stories for 8th grade:
- The Lady or the Tiger (Stockton) -- the famous first "you decide" story ending
- The Open Window (Saki) -- irony; twist ending; very short; humor
- A Story Without An End (Twain) -- how hard it is to write the ending of a creatively set-up story; humorous
- Rikki Tikki Tavi -- plot line; an epic in miniature
- The Monkey's Paw (Jacobs) -- horror, suspense, and a "leave you hanging" ending
- Lamb to the Slaughter (Dahl) -- "black humor"
- The Red-Headed League or A Scandal in Bohemia (Doyle)-- a Sherlock Holmes mystery
- The Secret Life of Walter Mitty (Thurber) -- humor
- A Sound of Thunder (Bradbury)-- the original "butterfly effect" time-travel story
- The Fun They Had (Asimov)
- The Most Dangerous Game (Connell)
- There Will Come Soft Rains (Bradbury)
- The Tell-Tale Heart (Poe)
- The Ransom of Red Chief (Henry)
- Wooster and Jeeves short story (PG Wodehouse)
- Flowers for Algernon (Keyes)

And, in case it helps, here are a few titles DS might enjoy if he liked Harry Potter, just to have something for occasional solo reading:

- The Graveyard Book (Gaiman) -- had a slightly Harry Potter feel to me; really enjoyed this one
- Percy Jackson and the Oympians series (Riordan) -- bonus is that DS gets exposure to Greek myth characters!
- Artemis Fowle series (Colfer) -- 12yo evil mastermind boy meets underworld of technologically advanced fairies/dwarves
- Leviathan; Behemouth; Goliath (Westerfeld) -- fun steampunk alternate WW1 trilogy
- Tripod series (Christopher) -- a fast-reading updated version of "what if HG Wells' War of the Worlds aliens had WON"

Edited November 5, 2018 by Lori D.

[DragonFaerie]

First, totally agree with Marbel. :)

 

Plus, a LOT of traditional classics are old and hard to use as your intro to Literature:

- old, hard vocabulary

- old complex/different sentence structure

- old culture that doesn't click with contemporary kids

- old ideas and themes

- subtly-written rather than on the surface so hard to get into and understand what it's about

More recent young adult works might be a better fit to start out.

 

Second -- slightly worrisome is the fact that  he won't even read non-fiction or on topics of high interest. Any possibility that he needs his vision checked (glasses), or has a very mild undiagnosed vision tracking issue or stealth dyslexia that makes reading uncomfortable and not pleasant? Just to rule those things out, you might get him evaluated...

 

Third: in answer to "could we skip literature altogether"

Looking ahead to high school, in order to meet high school graduation requirements, but even more importantly, college admission requirements, you DO need to have 4 credits (years) of English in high school.

 

Typically, 1 credit of English is 1/2 Writing and 1/2 Literature, but there are ways of reducing the amount of Literature by increasing the amount of Writing and types of Writing, and to include "specialty" programs or topics that can cover parts of the English credit -- like:

- Movies as Literature program (teaches analysis/discussion used with Literature by starting with films)

- up to 0.5 credit of Public Speaking

- 1.0 credit of some sort of specialty writing: Journalism; Technical Writing; Creative Writing

 

And while it might be very non-standard, I suppose you could skip Literature entirely and do 4 years of very focused Composition and specialty Writing, esp. something like Technical Writing which is a fantastic support field to the STEM fields -- a fairly high demand job, too. :)

 

HOWEVER, yes, I do think you would do DS a disservice if you don't do at least a LITTLE bit of Literature (reading of classic lit and discussion, analysis, and writing about the lit.) in high school as prep for college, because everyone going for an Associate's or a Bachelor's degree has some specific general ed. credits they have to take -- which always includes 2 semesters of Writing 101 and 102 -- which involves reading of some Literature and discussing/writing about it. JMO, but that would be pretty painful for college to be your very first exposure to those processes….

 

 

For an 8th grader, I think I would select some interesting young adult works to together read/discuss (without beating the life out of the works). Also include some short stories, which often have all the depth and discuss-ability of longer works -- and have the added attraction of being short.  :laugh:

 

Ideas for how to do lit:

- Pick works that are much more likely to be of high interest (contemporary authors, young adult works).

- Do it together, reading aloud alternate pages, or listen together to audio book.

- For a few books, watch a movie version and then compare/contrast for your discussion or written output  -- The Giver, The Hunger Games, and Ender's Game all had movie versions come out in the last 2-3 years

-  Possibly host a monthly book club with other middle schoolers for a few high-interest tween/young teen books -- sometimes peer pressure works in your favor. ;)

- Outsource it -- sign up for a few of the Brave Writer Boomerang Club books (here's the 2016-17 list -- for a non-reader, I'd suggest Miss Peregrine, Divergent, and possibly To Kill a Mockingbird) -- and together read aloud or listen together (to make sure the book gets READ ;) ), and then DS has his discussion online with the class

 

Some possible book and guide ideas for 8th grade lit: 

Animal Farm (Orwell)

The Giver (Lowry)-- Garlic Press Discovering Lit. guide; Portals to Lit. guide; Progeny Press guide

The Westing Game (Raskin) -- Blackbird & Co. guide

Call of the Wild (London) -- Glencoe Lit. Library guide, Portals to Lit. guide

Tuck Everlasting (Babbitt) -- Glencoe Lit. Library guide

The Cay (Taylor) -- Progeny Press guide

Island of the Blue Dolphins (O'Dell) -- Glencoe Lit. Library guide; Garlic Press Discovering Lit. guide; Progeny Press guide

Maniac Magee (Spinnelli) -- Progeny Press guide

 

And some good starting short stories for 8th grade:

- The Lady or the Tiger (Stockton) -- the famous first "you decide" story ending

- The Open Window (Saki) -- irony; twist ending; very short; humor

- A Story Without An End (Twain) -- how hard it is to write the ending of a creatively set-up story; humorous

- Rikki Tikki Tavi -- plot line; an epic in miniature

- The Monkey's Paw (Jacobs) -- horror, suspense, and a "leave you hanging" ending

- Lamb to the Slaughter (Dahl) -- "black humor"

- The Red-Headed League or A Scandal in Bohemia (Doyle)-- a Sherlock Holmes mystery

- The Secret Life of Walter Mitty (Thurber) -- humor

- A Sound of Thunder (Bradbury)-- the original "butterfly effect" time-travel story

- The Fun They Had (Asimov)

- The Most Dangerous Game (Connell)

- There Will Come Soft Rains (Bradbury)

- The Tell-Tale Heart (Poe)

- The Ransom of Red Chief (Henry)

- Wooster and Jeeves short story (PG Wodehouse)

- Flowers for Algernon (Keyes)

 

And, in case it helps, here are a few titles DS might enjoy if he liked Harry Potter, just to have something for occasional solo reading:

- The Graveyard Book (Gaiman) -- had a slightly Harry Potter feel to me; really enjoyed this one

- Percy Jackson and the Oympians series (Riordan) -- bonus is that DS gets exposure to Greek myth characters!

- Artemis Fowle series (Colfer) -- 12yo evil mastermind boy meets underworld of technologically advanced fairies/dwarves

- Leviathan; Behemouth; Goliath (Westerfeld) -- fun steampunk alternate WW1 trilogy

- Tripod series (Christopher) -- a fast-reading updated version of "what if HG Wells' War of the Worlds aliens had WON"

 

Thank you so much!  Excellent advice and suggestions! 

[Lori D.]

On 8/19/2016 at 4:24 PM, DragonFaerie said:

He likes precious little besides the few I mentioned, Harry, Fudge, and My Side of the Mountain.  Oh, and Where the Red Fern Grows.  I've been trying to get him to read Eragon for ages but he's resisting for some reason.  He'd really just rather not read at all if he had his way.

 

Humorous books -- although not in the same school days type of genre as Fudge
- Hoot (Hiaasen) -- and others by this author -- also involves animals and environmental concerns
- The Fake Moustache (Angleberger)
- Fortunately, The Milk (Gaiman)
- Whales on Stilts (Anderson) 
- The Great Brain (Fitzgerald) -- turn of century rural town boy misadventures

Animal Books -- along the lines of ...Red Fern and My Side...
- Summer of the Monkeys (Rawls) -- author of Where the Red Fern Grows
- The Incredible Journey (Burnford)
- Rascal (North)
- Shiloh (Naylor)
- The Black Stallion (Farley) -- teen boy shipwrecked with a beautiful wild horse tames it and races it when they get home
- Island Stallion (Farley) -- teen boy tames a wild horse AND a secret island!
- Big Red (Kjelgaard) -- and others by this author
- Gentle Ben (Morey) -- and others by this author
- All Creatures Great and Small (Herriot) -- a big jump up in reading level/vocabulary, but your DS may like that -- maybe try James Herriot's Dog Stories or Stories for Children?

Wilderness Adventure Books -- along the lines of My Side of the Mountain
- sequels to My Side of the Mountain
- The Cay (Taylor)
- Hatchet (Paulsen)
- Sign of the Beaver (Speare)
- Call It Courage (Armstrong)
- Incident at Hawk's Hill (Eckert)

Edited November 5, 2018 by Lori D.

[hellen]

When I think of Harry Potter, Superfudge, and My Side of the Mountain, the common things that pop into my head are wanting to escape family and proving oneself.

 

I think he should try Gordon Korman's book I Want to Go Home. It's hilarious. I loved it when I was younger.

 

I can't think of any more off the top of my head but I'll keep thinking.

[Haiku]

You might look at this book. The student makes his own literature selections.

[theelfqueen]

How does he feel about audiobooks? Graphic Novels? Comics?

Have you tried something like a Calvin and Hobbes collection? Not exactly heavy in literary merit but good for showing him that reading can be enjoyable :)

[Miss Tick]

I was going to recommend Hatchet by Paulsen also. It is a slightly more mature version of My Side of the Mountain. If he likes it there are a few sequels.

 

Also he might like the City of Ember by duPrau. A couple of (pre?) teens discover the wider world after growing up in an isolated underground city.

[DragonFaerie]

How does he feel about audiobooks? Graphic Novels? Comics?

Have you tried something like a Calvin and Hobbes collection? Not exactly heavy in literary merit but good for showing him that reading can be enjoyable :)

 

Nope.  He has no interest in those kinds of things at all.

[Shred Betty]

I think kids need to be exposed to some literary analysis... but honestly, I think it's a bit like calculus. Everyone will use math. Everyone will use reading. Everyone who can should be exposed to lit analysis. Everyone who can should be exposed to doing calculus. But... it's not going to be a long term needed skill for everyone. And it's okay if it's not the emphasis. Especially in middle school.

 

I strongly agree with casting a wider net. Those aren't books that spring to mind for me as potential winners for a math/science lover.

 

I would focus on nonfiction reading skills since those are going to serve him better long term in a practical way.

 

For literature, I'd try science fiction definitely. Might he enjoy things like Wrinkle in Time, George's Secret Key, Day of the Tripods, Ender's Game, The Time Machine, etc. etc.? And fantasy since he liked Harry Potter. Have you tried some of the other good Harry Potter level of world building series with him? Things like the Bartimaeus trilogy or Gregor the Overlander? And what about dystopians? Might he enjoy The Giver? I would also do more short stories than novels for sure. Ray Bradbury, for one.

+1 to Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. Something tells me if your DS math/science guy can get to the battle game scenes where Ender develops his innovative star battle strategy skills he will be hooked! Lol such a great great book!

[regentrude]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but:

some things have to be taught, whether the kid *likes* it or not.

Being an engineer is no excuse for being ignorant of world literature. Cultural literacy is not optional in my opinion.

I would indulge an elementary or young middle grades kid, but for a high school student, I would tell him to suck it up and do it.

He would be free to make suggestions for literature to read, but if he did not suggest reasonable selections, I would assign and expect completion. Maybe offer one pass on a work he really cannot get into.

Just like I would not let a humanities inclined student get away without doing math.

 

ETA: if he generally "hates" to read, I would investigate whether this is because he has difficulties reading. And that would be something i would address very aggressively.

Does he read non fiction? You mention he does not even read about topics that interest him. That would concern me.

If literature is light, I would incorporate lots of reading into the content subjects and have him shore up his reading skills in science and history.

Edited August 21, 2016 by regentrude

[luuknam]

I'd ask him to jot down for each book why he hates Jungle Book, Cheaper by the Dozen, Treasure Island, etc. And a similar list for what he likes about Harry Potter, Fudge, My Side of the Mountain, etc. And try to get him to give as many detailed reasons as possible, no judgments. 

[Arcadia]

He won't even read books or magazines about things he's interested in (he loves fishing, asked for a fishing magazine subscription for his birthday, never read a single issue).

Even an engineer or any science/math career need to read. So the fact that he wouldn't read on topics he like would be lots more worrying than about not liking literature.

[Guest]

What helped my eng. son was live drama and continued music study. It moved him away from the ad naseum plot summaries expected, and on to literary devices and the intertwining of themes, as he realized what the author was doing was similar to the job of the composer, the set designer, the lighting crew, the sound techs etc. He then made it a point to understand why the particular books chosen for lit study each year were chosen.

 

The books you listed, My Side.., Fudge, HP could segue into YA such as Scott Westerfield, Laurence Yep and into sci fi such as John Christoper's The White Mountain Trilogy and met the 8th grade objectives, depending on what else is on your list.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[goldenecho]

It seems like the books you've tried are all older books not in the same genre as Harry Potter.  I know with classical education classics are big, but since he's not responding to them, I'd try books more recent authors and more books in the magic and fantasy genre, since he's shown he likes those.  I actually have not read the Harry Potter books myself, but I've watched the movies so I have a feeling for the type of story that might be similar.  My kids liked the Wings of Fire (books about Dragons) and Series of Unfortunate Events....if he likes maybe try things like Chronicles of Narnia, The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings,  if you want to introduce more classical books.

Edited August 21, 2016 by goldenecho

[goldenecho]

If he liked My Side of the Mountain and Where the Red Fern Grows, I might try Island of the Blue Dolphins (main character is a women, but still has that survivalist track), Incredible Journey,  The Yearling, The Cay, maybe even some of the Little House on the Prairie books (you could start with Farmer Boy if he objects to a girl main character). 

[DragonFaerie]

Thanks so much for all the suggestions, everyone.  Rest assured, I'm not going to let him just stop reading.  He will still read something of his choice before bed each night, and I will still assign a book for literature. I'm just going to focus more on books he'll enjoy rather than "literature study."  First up starting tomorrow, Eragon.  Once I've got him happier about reading, then I'll include some (very) short stories about which we can discuss plot, character development, etc. But I'll keep those short and sweet rather than trying to get him to read classic novels. I've always hated the idea of teaching "excerpts from" novels rather than the novels themselves, but maybe that's just what this kiddo needs. I'll figure that out for high school, I suppose. 

[MamaChicken]

My math/science guy as a rule reads only nonfiction, but has fallen in love with Tolkein.

[mom31257]

My ds doesn't love to read but I make him read a few things each year. I didn't like to read much, and interestingly, I have a math degree. 

 

I started a book club so that I would make sure he read some good literature. I like outside accountability when there's something difficult or I don't want to do. His literature analysis has all been oral up to this point, but I'm going to begin some written this year. 

 

Short stories and even picture books might be a good place to start instead of full works. I am doing the $1 month trial for www.schoolhouseteachers.com. In the literature course, there are many picture books and novels listed with full literary analysis discussions and answers. You can download and save these. it's worth the $1! 

 

Ds really like My Side of the Mountain, too. Some other personal favorites from his own reading time are The Outsiders, The Hunger Games series, and the Percy Jackson series. 

[Bluegoat]

I don't think everyone has to grow into a reader.

 

OTOH, I think literature is a pretty basic part of education, and for a tech-type non-reader, they may not get more of it after high school.  So if they are going to have enough awareness of what literature is to be educated meaningfully, a student like that may have to get it before then.  I almost would be more comfortable with someone who is uneducated and knows it than the situation I see where people graduate from engineering or something thinking they are educated, but they know nothing about literature or history or ideas outside their technical competence.

 

So - I would not over-do the lit for a kid like that, but I would try and keep it steady.  I would emphasize by that age that not all books are meant to be primarily entertainment, any more than non-fiction always is, and that it is a way of communicating ideas, and important ones.  I'd still try and find something that would be appealing as well, as it is so much easier to see a point to literature if it is moving as well as academic. 

 

Sometimes I suspect finding something for a child like that which will be really enjoyed is luck more than anything.  What's the appeal of HP, really, that other, often more well-written,  books don't have? (This is a question I have often pondered.) 

 

It might be worthwhile to try getting him together with other kids for a book discussion.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

I haven't heard very good things about Eragon - I don't know if I'd make it a choice for school study.

[Lori D.]

On 8/22/2016 at 7:45 AM, Bluegoat said:

I haven't heard very good things about Eragon - I don't know if I'd make it a choice for school study.

Agreed. I would offer it as a free reading choice, and if he's interested, great, but if not, no big deal.

DS#2 here loved the series at that age, but I absolutely could not make myself get through more than the first book. It really felt like what it was: a first novel of a 15yo who loved Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. Nothing wrong with that, though, and kudos to Paolini for persevering and publishing, as it's a credible first novel for a young novice.

And the point is -- my not-such-a-big-book-fan DS loved Eragon and it got him choosing reading as a free time activity. We did plenty of quality Lit. together during school, so it was fine to be flexible and enjoy "snack food" reads on his own. 🙂

Edited July 28, 2020 by Lori D.

[Bluegoat]

Agreed. I would offer it as a free reading choice, and if he's interested, great, but if not, no big deal.

 

DS#2 here loved the series at that age, but I absolutely could not make myself get through more than the first book. It really felt like what it was: a first novel of a 15yo who loved Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. Nothing wrong with that, though, and kudos to Paolini for persevering and publishing, as it's a credible first novel for a young novice.

 

Apparently the series gets worse as it goes on though, despite the fact that the last was published toward the end of his 20s.  I've only read parts of the first, that was enough to convince me I wasn't interested.

[hellen]

Reading the posts about Eragon made me think how all of us have started books but not finished them for various reasons. This thread is about making a child who hates a book in the same way we all have finish it for the sake education.

 

I get forcing kids to learn things they don't want to learn. I do it. I don't see the benefit of learning literary analysis. I can understand a familiarity with famous works. Does one need to read Great Expectations or The Scarlet Letter or is it enough to know the basic plot?

 

I had an English teacher that analyzed things to death. I am not the only one from that class to retain strongly negative memories of the experience. I dislike speculating why an author chose a particular name or plot device. At the end there is no fact, just a bunch of opinions.

 

I don't plan on teaching literary analysis. Just the thought of it makes me cringe. I do plan on making my kids read the classics. If I had a kid that hated reading, we would do audiobooks. If that didn't work we would do abridged classics and movies. That's because my goal would be a familiarity with the works, not an in depth understanding of the mind of the author.

[kentuckymom]

You've gotten lots of great advice, but, since he loved THE GIVER and this hasn't been mentioned, I want to note that it's the first book in a quartet. The other three books, in order, are GATHERING BLUE, MESSENGER, and SON.  The second and fourth are written mainly from the perspective of a female protagonist, in case that matters to him. Also, you don't directly learn that the second book is connected to the world of the the first until the third book. 

[Bluegoat]

Reading the posts about Eragon made me think how all of us have started books but not finished them for various reasons. This thread is about making a child who hates a book in the same way we all have finish it for the sake education.

 

I get forcing kids to learn things they don't want to learn. I do it. I don't see the benefit of learning literary analysis. I can understand a familiarity with famous works. Does one need to read Great Expectations or The Scarlet Letter or is it enough to know the basic plot?

 

I had an English teacher that analyzed things to death. I am not the only one from that class to retain strongly negative memories of the experience. I dislike speculating why an author chose a particular name or plot device. At the end there is no fact, just a bunch of opinions.

 

I don't plan on teaching literary analysis. Just the thought of it makes me cringe. I do plan on making my kids read the classics. If I had a kid that hated reading, we would do audiobooks. If that didn't work we would do abridged classics and movies. That's because my goal would be a familiarity with the works, not an in depth understanding of the mind of the author.

 

I don't know.  In middle school, maybe not necessary, but I think a high school child should have some experience of what literary analysis is.  They don't necessarily need to do a lot of it, or be good at it, but I am not sure that one can understand why literature is important as more than entertainment without some exposure to literary analysis.

 

I wonder if sometimes the problem isn't that a lot of the literary analysis that people experience in high school is rather facile.  Speculating on name choices seems to me like it would often be pretty irrelevant in any significant way.

 

But for example, back when I was a student and we were reading some Greek plays, one of the things we talked about in terms of analysis is how they explored the relation of the individual to the state, and what the proper role of each was - at that time in their history it was a question that was on people's minds, and what happened in the writing reflected those questions, and also some of the answers and ways of thinking about those questions that people had.

 

Not only was this a useful insight in terms of making the play itself more meaningful, they were ideas that for me became important or meaningful when I thought about similar questions.  So - what some might say is simply literature, entertainment, became much more than that, it became a framework for thinking about something significant in daily life and a window for how other people, with a very different life and set of assumptions, might have thought about it.  It was an enlarging experience in a way just reading the book on my own would never have been.

 

I don't know that middle school kids are really ready for thinking that way much yet, but a high school student should realize, at least, that it is a way to get more out of literature.  So many kids graduate, even from university, without realizing that the arts are anything more than a distraction or hobby.

[Ravin]

How about some good/classic science fiction that's based in hard science?

 

Someone suggested Ender's Game.

 

I would also suggest any of Robert Heinlein's young adult novels. The Rolling Stones is very good, so is Farmer in the Sky.

 

Perhaps a collection of science fiction short stories?

 

At that age I had a subscription to Analog magazine. It had articles on science (fact) as well as science fiction stories. I believe it's still in publication.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Ravin

[hellen]

Maybe I just didn't have good instruction. We spent too much time being told the significance of things like color choices. The blue shirt symbolized his mood. The 3 objects in the basket symbolized the broken family. My teacher was all about the little details. We had tests every month on his changing bulletin boards. It was questions about how many apples were in the cornucopia and stuff like that.

 

Just last night at the dinner table we were talking about books with multiple points of view. My 9 year old just finished The Candymakers. I don't consider that literary analysis but maybe I should. Maybe my definition of literary analysis is wrong.

[MerryAtHope]

Maybe I just didn't have good instruction. We spent too much time being told the significance of things like color choices. The blue shirt symbolized his mood. The 3 objects in the basket symbolized the broken family. My teacher was all about the little details. We had tests every month on his changing bulletin boards. It was questions about how many apples were in the cornucopia and stuff like that.

 

Just last night at the dinner table we were talking about books with multiple points of view. My 9 year old just finished The Candymakers. I don't consider that literary analysis but maybe I should. Maybe my definition of literary analysis is wrong.

 

That kind of literary analysis does often make people hate literary analysis (and it gets into questionable areas, sometimes making things "symbolic" that the author never even intended!)

 

I think it's much more interesting (and important) to discuss what the characters are doing and why and how their choices impact them and what all of this makes us think about (would we make the same choice? Have we and regretted it or been glad about it? How we can empathize with the character, or how we can learn/grow from what the character goes through, etc...) 

 

I think there can be a place for more in depth analysis, but most of the time, looking at things like theme, time period (which affects thought process), conflicts and how they are overcome, tragic flaws and how we can learn/grow from them (even if you don't ever tell your kid about the "literary device" of a tragic flaw, this is a fairly easy and interesting aspect of some stories, worth discussing)--etc... 

 

I don't discuss all of these things in every story either. I always start from what interests or intrigues us--and that usually leads into some element that we can discuss, either casually (often) or formally (naming literary devices as we discuss them, possibly writing about a literary device--only occasionally). 

 

I want my kids to be able to see obvious symbolism (like the use of "wolves" in the title for The Wolves of Willoughby Chase), but I don't think chasing down lots of symbolism is really the end goal--and therefore has never been a priority for me. I'm more interested in what my kids think, enjoying the book together, and inspiring them to think more deeply about what they read by following that interest trail.

[DragonFaerie]

I guess we're not even at the point of literary analysis.  At this point, I'll just be happy if I can get him to not hate reading.  Eragon, by the way, is working.  He's enjoying reading.  Yay!

[J&JMom]

How about the Itch books by Simon Mayo.  The main character is an element collector-  lots of action and science.

[DragonFaerie]

How about the Itch books by Simon Mayo.  The main character is an element collector-  lots of action and science.

 

Oooh, that sounds promising!

[EKS]

I would make this year about having him read books you truly think he'll enjoy--and you have gotten a lot of good suggestions here.  These don't have to be great literature.

 

Then for stuff you think he should read, I'd read those aloud to him.  Here too, you want to pick things that you think he will enjoy, but maybe the language is more complex or it is a little harder to get into or whatever.

 

Also, I agree with regentrude that I would put some effort into investigating if there is something going on that is preventing him from reading well enough to enjoy it.  I'd start with a fluency test (have him read grade level text for one minute, tally the errors, and then subtract the errors from the number of words read--an 8th grader should have an oral reading speed of 150-200 wpm).  If it is lower than that, I'd have him do fluency readings every day.  If he stumbles over longer words, I'd consider doing REWARDS Secondary with him as well.

[Ariston]

I'm skipping to the end, but OP I think you hit the nail on the head in the middle of this thread. If it were me I wouldn't do any literature analysis at all and just try to find things he enjoyed reading. If you can manage to build a love for books that will serve him better in the long run.

 

Reading aloud is also a great option and something that should probably never stop even with older kids.

 

I'm also coming back to this thread later when I'm on a computer to copy and paste all of these great book suggestions :)

[DragonFaerie]

I would make this year about having him read books you truly think he'll enjoy--and you have gotten a lot of good suggestions here.  These don't have to be great literature.

 

Then for stuff you think he should read, I'd read those aloud to him.  Here too, you want to pick things that you think he will enjoy, but maybe the language is more complex or it is a little harder to get into or whatever.

 

Also, I agree with regentrude that I would put some effort into investigating if there is something going on that is preventing him from reading well enough to enjoy it.  I'd start with a fluency test (have him read grade level text for one minute, tally the errors, and then subtract the errors from the number of words read--an 8th grader should have an oral reading speed of 150-200 wpm).  If it is lower than that, I'd have him do fluency readings every day.  If he stumbles over longer words, I'd consider doing REWARDS Secondary with him as well.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but no. He doesn't have any trouble reading. He just doesn't enjoy it.  But, Eragon is a big hit!  He's choosing to read that for his bedtime reading in addition to his school reading, so YAY!!!