Typical time attending to math

[nature girl]

This is a semi-X-Post from K-8, but I'm reframing it for this board. :)

 

DD6 will only attend for around 15 minutes (20 on a good day) to math before she starts acting silly. This was about her limit before we started Focalin in June, and it hasn't really changed since we started. (Really the only difference I'm seeing on meds is that she's a bit quieter/calmer, doesn't need to wiggle as much, and she's able to spend longer on preferred activities, like art and science experiments. Writing and math are still a struggle.) So I'm wondering how atypical this is for a child a month and a half away from turning 7, and whether it's a sign that we're not on the right med. Any thoughts?

[Terabith]

That's about right. Can she do a second session later?

[nature girl]

She's typically done for the day after that, it's hard to get her back to it without major balking...She'll sometimes do a RS card game with me, so I'll settle for that, and I let her play Prodigy for around a half hour 4 times a week.

 

I should say, I'm not concerned with her progress since she does learn quickly. More worried about how she's going to compare to other 1st graders next year in ps, where she won't be allowed to slide off her chair and roll around on the floor. :closedeyes:

[nature girl]

As an example, we'd gone over 3 digit addition with regrouping in tens and ones a week ago. Yesterday, after a few minutes of unrelated word problems, I gave her one of the SM worksheets as review...It had, I think, 8 addition problems. She did the first and second problem just fine, but then I know was starting to drift because she started coloring one of the pictures with her pencil. I let her finish coloring but then I redirected her back to the third problem, she started it but forgot to carry a 1, and when I pointed that out to her she crumpled the paper and pretended to eat it. She was just done...

Edited August 17, 2016 by nature girl

[PeterPan]

What was the school's take on it during the ESY? 

[nature girl]

There wasn't much in the way of academics during ESY, maybe a half hour each day? And there were a number of other ADHD kids there, so I'm sure her attention span wasn't unusual...They didn't give much feedback on it, only said she was advanced academically, but they didn't indicate any issues. (Which means nothing, since they weren't comparing to a typical population.)

[kbutton]

What happens if you scribe her math for her? Does she do additional problems? Is she as forgetful? 

 

Silly with one of mine means I am reaching max load, but it might not be max load academically. It could be emotionally. It could be that he's anxious about the academics but feels self-conscious. It might mean he's afraid he'll fail. (If he does this, and I can easily and carefully "prove" to him he's competent, we're usually good.) 

 

You know she is a perfectionist. The pretending to eat the paper came right after a correction. 

 

Does she respond with silliness or other less than idea behaviors when other people correct her, or just when you correct her? (Not that you are doing anything wrong! It might be significant in some way regardless.)

Edited August 17, 2016 by kbutton

[OneStepAtATime]

Well, to be honest, at 6 I would not have been doing 3 digit addition with regrouping worksheets when I was a kid that age and I don't think my kids did, either.  Maybe the material is just too abstract to hold her interest right now?  Can you do math with manipulatives and real world application more than worksheets right now?  She has a whole year to mature before going to school next year right?  Worksheets are really more like a bunch of clerical work.  Some kids really love clerical work.  For others it is like nails on a chalkboard.  

 

At 6 kids usually need a lot of movement and interaction with the material.  Schools frequently don't provide that, but then frequently schools are not providing developmentally appropriate material for little kids these days.  Perhaps limit work sheet math problems to only 4.  If she only sees that there are 4 she might be able to engage for longer.

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh, good point, what happens if you scribe for her when she does math problems?  How focused is she?

[Terabith]

Honestly, hard to say how she will react in a classroom setting. Don't borrow trouble! But one on one, that's pretty normal. Something my kids said about the difference between school and homeschooling was that at school, there was less pressure because the attention was more spread out. It's not as intense. You can daydream some or let other kids ask some questions and what not. It's just different. They find it less stressful, because if they don't get it, usually other kids don't either.

[nature girl]

Thank you all! Comments below:

 

What happens if you scribe her math for her? Does she do additional problems? Is she as forgetful? 

 

Silly with one of mine means I am reaching max load, but it might not be max load academically. It could be emotionally. It could be that he's anxious about the academics but feels self-conscious. It might mean he's afraid he'll fail. (If he does this, and I can easily and carefully "prove" to him he's competent, we're usually good.) 

 

You know she is a perfectionist. The pretending to eat the paper came right after a correction. 

 

Does she respond with silliness or other less than idea behaviors when other people correct her, or just when you correct her? (Not that you are doing anything wrong! It might be significant in some way regardless.)

 

These are all good points. I'm not sure how she'll respond to correction from others, I don't think she's ever gotten any! I guess we shall see. With me, she'll sometimes be okay, sometimes collapse into silliness, and sometimes become upset...I have to tread very carefully, much more carefully than I think a teacher will be able to, praising before I make the correction, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. In this instance I think I should've realized she was done when she started coloring...that was an obvious cue that it was time for a break. But again, breaks when she's had enough aren't going to happen in school, so I'm not sure how best to help her push through it.

 

Scribing does work much better for her, and in the past I scribed math almost exclusively. I never had her do worksheets on her own. But this summer, once we started SM (we'd been using RS before this) I did started giving her a limited worksheets because I knew she'd have to get through them in school, and wanted to ease her into them. I also wanted her to work on number formation...Since I hardly had her write numbers before this, they're extremely awkward and messy. I can't say that's gotten better (but these days we usually do math outside on our laps, so that may be part of it.)

 

I guess my expectations for meds were too high...I thought they'd help her once the time came where she'd have to sit and do worksheet-like work, for however long they expect without breaks. Although there have been other positive changes, that ability to stay focused on non-preferred activities just doesn't seem to have happened.

 

 

Well, to be honest, at 6 I would not have been doing 3 digit addition with regrouping worksheets when I was a kid that age and I don't think my kids did, either.  Maybe the material is just too abstract to hold her interest right now?  Can you do math with manipulatives and real world application more than worksheets right now?  She has a whole year to mature before going to school next year right?  Worksheets are really more like a bunch of clerical work.  Some kids really love clerical work.  For others it is like nails on a chalkboard.  

 

At 6 kids usually need a lot of movement and interaction with the material.  Schools frequently don't provide that, but then frequently schools are not providing developmentally appropriate material for little kids these days.  Perhaps limit work sheet math problems to only 4.  If she only sees that there are 4 she might be able to engage for longer.

 

With SM, new topics are introduced with manipulatives, then they move on to pictures, and then the problems become abstract. That's the way we've been working through lessons, so we do play with manipulatives, and she understands what she's doing when she regroups, just gets careless once she loses focus.

 

I should probably try giving her a typical beginning 1st grade worksheet, with several addition/subtraction problems she could do in her sleep, see how she does. I wonder if being able to breeze through problems would make the worksheets feel less overwhelming, or if she'd get bored and start acting up even faster. I guess it's worth a try...(School is this year, starting in 3 weeks.)

 

Honestly, hard to say how she will react in a classroom setting. Don't borrow trouble! But one on one, that's pretty normal. Something my kids said about the difference between school and homeschooling was that at school, there was less pressure because the attention was more spread out. It's not as intense. You can daydream some or let other kids ask some questions and what not. It's just different. They find it less stressful, because if they don't get it, usually other kids don't either.

 

That's an interesting point. I do know she gets stressed once she's made a mistake, so that's part of the issue, and at least in school the mistakes aren't caught and addressed immediately like they are when she's working in front of me. That may help. On the other hand, I've been continuously worrying whether she'll be able to do anything without someone consistently on top of her to continue working. I'm imagining her doing one problem, and then spending the rest of the time turning all the numbers on the page into dragons and dinos. (sigh)

 

[Tiramisu]

This is a semi-X-Post from K-8, but I'm reframing it for this board. :)

 

DD6 will only attend for around 15 minutes (20 on a good day) to math before she starts acting silly. This was about her limit before we started Focalin in June, and it hasn't really changed since we started. (Really the only difference I'm seeing on meds is that she's a bit quieter/calmer, doesn't need to wiggle as much, and she's able to spend longer on preferred activities, like art and science experiments. Writing and math are still a struggle.) So I'm wondering how atypical this is for a child a month and a half away from turning 7, and whether it's a sign that we're not on the right med. Any thoughts?

According to our np, this is a common reaction to ADHD meds for someone with ASD. People here have reported similar experiences.

 

We've been down this road before and it's not worth going over the same ground, but that's what I've heard about and experienced as far as that reaction to meds.

 

You could always try something else, just to see if the attention part can be hit better.

 

We moved from focalin to concerta due to headaches but that attention part didn't change.

 

ETA: I forgot something about our focalin experience. DD needed more breaks. So when going from one subject to another, she needed down time. That was different with concerta, when we could do bigger chunks of her schedule in one sitting. I wonder if that's related to what you are dealing with. Attention on a task wasn't as good as I may have hoped with either but that ability to attend for a longer time without a feeling of stress was better with concerta.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Tiramisu

[kbutton]

FWIW, my younger (not ASD) kiddo did three digit addition with regrouping with manipulatives really early, but it was too many steps to do it on paper until closer to typical time (but then, he picked it up fast, and he's picked up all paper math fast). But there was a big gap between manips and paper. I think he did do it on paper toward the end of first grade with subtraction/borrowing right after that. My ASD kiddo wasn't home with me at that age.

 

It's a really good point about the classroom providing less limelight and more blend in with the crowd. That was a big thing with the one kiddo who did do some school. It had its pros and cons.

 

I think some kids need "less" on an emotional level even when they are capable of "more" on an academic level. I don't think you are pushing her. If she can do it, she can do it, and pushing doesn't necessarily make kids get it any earlier. I think this is at least partly a mismatch between "her" and something you have yet to completely figure out. If you give her too easy work that is grade level, does she attend better?

 

I think that ADHD meds will fix what is due to ADHD, and what's left is going to be due to something else. I know that is not an easy thing to hear. 

[Heathermomster]

If she is maxed at 15 min, back off to 10 min. She's 6 yo.

 

Just so that you know, motivation and ability are what set gifted kids apart. Just because she can do something, doesn't mean she should.

[nature girl]

If she is maxed at 15 min, back off to 10 min. She's 6 yo.

 

 

I can do that at home, and it's what I've always done. (We actually did virtually no math at all for much of K.) But they're not going to do that at school...I guess I was hoping she might learn to push through her inattentiveness, if we practiced pushing through at home.

 

 

According to our np, this is a common reaction to ADHD meds for someone with ASD. People here have reported similar experiences.

 

We've been down this road before and it's not worth going over the same ground, but that's what I've heard about and experienced as far as that reaction to meds.

 

You could always try something else, just to see if the attention part can be hit better.

 

We moved from focalin to concerta due to headaches but that attention part didn't change.

 

ETA: I forgot something about our focalin experience. DD needed more breaks. So when going from one subject to another, she needed down time. That was different with concerta, when we could do bigger chunks of her schedule in one sitting. I wonder if that's related to what you are dealing with. Attention on a task wasn't as good as I may have hoped with either but that ability to attend for a longer time without a feeling of stress was better with concerta.

 

So interesting that you found those subtle differences with two different types of methylphenidates! I've considered asking to try Concerta, but I didn't think it could make much of a difference unless we switched to a different med class. Hmmm...

 

I should say that she's better able to attend with some things, she's written several stories, a full narrow-lined classroom notebook page, which she hadn't ever done before. Library programs and local theater she'll sit still and listen, rapt, much more so than she ever did before, and time at mindfulness has improved. But copywork she won't do more than a couple of sentences, her limit for handwriting is 2 HWT pages, and math we hit that wall at 15 minutes.

 

I still just don't see the ASD. Her behaviors have improved SO much over the past year, even more with meds. She got close to some of the boys at camp, there are still issues but she seems to be doing better with her social skills. And I can't tell you the last time we've had a major meltdown...Some emotional issues, yes, but always short-lived. Of course I may be wrong, but at this point I don't think anyone would suggest ASD looking at her behavior.

 

As a sidenote, Monday I took her to a painting studio as her weekly (token-based) reward. She spent 2 hours there, first tracing a picture, then tracing it over onto the canvas, then painting, the attention was kind of incredible. And when she was having a really hard time with her dragon's eye, she didn't get upset, just asked for help. That was HUGE for her, I think I mentioned here that the last time we were at that studio (for a party) part of her painting didn't turn out the way she wanted it to and she collapsed into tears. That was at the beginning of our med journey...I was so proud and heartened yesterday.

 

I'll try her on an easy worksheet tomorrow...Maybe end the lesson with it, when I know she's starting to wear down, to see if she can push through. Actually, now I'm thinking of it, in the beginning of the summer we had a couple of amazing weeks with math...Doing Singapore 1B which was easy for her, and she was so proud of herself she actually wanted to keep with it long after I would have stopped. But then there were times she'd try to push herself beyond her capabilities (beyond even what the workbook was asking), fail at it and get upset. Ooooh, if I'm remembering right, that was on a higher dose of Focalin! I pushed it back trying to minimize the increased emotionality/perfectionism (it did) and that may have impacted her ability to attend. Ugh. Such a balancing act, but I'm not going up again, regardless. We're having virtually no side effects now.

[Tiramisu]

It actually sounds like she's doing great. I don't think I'd be inclined to change anything. She might surprise you in school.

 

We had the headaches with focalin, otherwise I would have been happy to stick with it.

 

And as long as you're experiencing so many positive changes, I wouldn't worry over the asd question now either. If it's that, it will become clear.

[Terabith]

You're borrowing trouble. You're worrying and you have no data about this. None! You can't predict how she'll do. Just go swimming, play outside, read to her, bake cookies. Don't worry yet! There will be time enough to do that!

[Kat w]

I think it's so awesome you're doing Singapore with her.

 

She sounds advanced in math.

 

I would maybe change meds.

I know this was a hard decision to mKe, but don't be afraid to chage until the doc finds the right med.

 

Sometimes the first or even second d isn't the right one. It takes time and trial and error with the meds to find the right one that interacts will with your child.

 

I've read your story on and off (o was gone for several months with our testing )

 

And personally, and I could be wrong , I don't see ASD.

I do see typical ADHD, behavior.

 

When we adopt, we have no idea really the bio faimjly history or what went on during pregnancy .

I think shea doing awesome in math. what she's doing is awesome. S

 

I wouldn't hold her back on that.

15 or so mins is good for triple digit addition.

 

Could you maybe switch concepts after a break at that point t?

Say, go outside and measure things? Use water in pints cups Nd gallons? That's always fun lol.

 

These kiddos like the fun hands on stuff. My youngest will get silly too.

 

What time of day are you doing math? If I do it in the afternoon , he is sure to get silly.

 

If I do it in the morning ....smooth sailing.

 

Language in the afternoon, or reading? I have no problems with him getting silly.

Sometimes it's time of day for certain subjects.

 

I'd maybe say it wouldn't hurt to change meds and try changing sunject times.

 

Math in morning. Reading or language in the afternoon.

 

Idk why my guy gets silly in afternoon math, but he does.

 

Also, have you tried the therapy ir exercise ball?

Let her sit in that and move around a bit as she Works ?

 

That works for us.

 

I love the fact shea doing that with Singapore . that's good. Again, maybe take a break then switch concepts .

 

Hands on stuff like fill-in cuos with water or measuring the length of your car.

 

That's fun, get ya moving math.

 

Works for us :)

Edited August 18, 2016 by Kat w

[OneStepAtATime]

Kat W has some great suggestions for shaking things up and I agree she sounds advanced in math. I realize your concern is how to prepare her for a school setting. You feel you are running out of time and seem worried that school will end up being a bad fit because she wasn't properly prepared for it. I understand your concerns. Hugs to you. Sending a child off to school for the first time can be stressful even with a NT child because it is full of unknowns. However, I agree with up thread, there is no way to know what her functionality will be in a classroom setting. It is just so vastly different than what you do with her at home. I am concerned that your worries will be picked up by your daughter and she will start to internalize those worries herself even if you never verbalize them around her. "Prepping" her may not net much. I am also wondering what the school is using for math and what a 1st grader there is expected to know. She seems ahead in math. Have you discussed with the school what the options are for students that are a bit ahead?

[kbutton]

If she's doing SO WELL with other stuff, I am inclined to think that math is really the problem. I have two kids whose highest test scores are in math or at times have been in math (testing in the gifted range on the WJ), and they both are somewhat math-anxious. Math demands a lot of working memory and attention. Maybe she is sensing her own limits in this regard and backing off accordingly, not because she can't do it but because it feels a lot harder than attending to her preferred activities. 

 

She also may be allocating more mental energy than what you can see to her preferred activities without realizing it, and then she doesn't have much left for math. Like going hard at a job we love all day, and coming home not wanting to do housework.

 

Maybe she just has an emotional aversion to math for some reason yet to be known.

 

I am really glad that so many other things have gotten better. It sounds like she is on her way to a lot better regulation.

 

I agree that you don't know how she'll do at school, but I would not be able to stop myself from trying a few things at home that I think could be a problem to see how they will go. Listen to those other ladies about that! 

[wapiti]

...and now I can't find the thread on the other board talking about the school situation and I can't remember what you decided to do.

 

Thinking out loud, maybe what you are seeing is asynchrony between her higher ability level in math and her math time being typical for her age (e.g., I've never timed it, but over the summer my dd7 voluntarily did some math worksheets for probably about 15 min before running out of steam/interest - that seems typical to me).  Asynchrony is fairly common in gifted kids.  For example, for my other kids, there was a lot of asynchrony between level of math ability and, say, handwriting... huge, gigantic, grand-canyon asynchrony LOL.

 

Where I might worry about school for an asynchronous kid is that getting stuck with grade-level math could be most unhelpful for patience/attention.  So, that would depend on what they give her.

 

For what you do at home, maybe the multi-digit problems would be more fun if you put them on a white board.

[nature girl]

Thank you all.

 

(And now after saying how wonderfully she was doing, she had a tough morning. I taught her how to play chess, she wanted to play 3 games and kept her attention on them even though they went on for awhile! But then she was doing a paper craft, and it turned out lopsided...She burst into tears and crumpled it. :( Then string wouldn't stick on another project, more tears. I guess after typing my last post yesterday, I should have knocked on wood.)

 

Kat, some excellent suggestions. We always do math in the afternoon, to be honest because I'm avoiding the struggle, we do the more fun things in the morning. I think it's a great idea to try in the morning...I'll try tomorrow and see how it goes. The next chapter introduces bar models to solve word problems, and I think she'll find that more enjoyable. After a week of addition and subtraction problems (mixed with CWP), it'll be a welcome break for both of us! And I'm definitely going to do some fun hands-on work, to try to get her past the hatred of math. We do that at times, mix it up with various sorts of games, but that's mainly to reinforce what she's learning. I think fooling around with liquids, and maybe fractions, would be a great idea!

 

An exercise ball was a disaster, she just wanted to roll around on it, lol. Good for OT, not so good for work. :) But we did practice number bonds last year on the trampoline!

 

Kat W has some great suggestions for shaking things up and I agree she sounds advanced in math. I realize your concern is how to prepare her for a school setting. You feel you are running out of time and seem worried that school will end up being a bad fit because she wasn't properly prepared for it. I understand your concerns. Hugs to you. Sending a child off to school for the first time can be stressful even with a NT child because it is full of unknowns. However, I agree with up thread, there is no way to know what her functionality will be in a classroom setting. It is just so vastly different than what you do with her at home. I am concerned that your worries will be picked up by your daughter and she will start to internalize those worries herself even if you never verbalize them around her. "Prepping" her may not net much. I am also wondering what the school is using for math and what a 1st grader there is expected to know. She seems ahead in math. Have you discussed with the school what the options are for students that are a bit ahead?

 

I'm always very been enthusiastic about school in front of her (and actually do feel enthusiastic, because I think it will be for the best for her), but I hear what you're saying. School is probably using Everyday Math (yuck), although some classes are trialing Go Math (also yuck) and from what I've seen online of both problems, it seems like it will be all review. I'm fine with that, as long as she doesn't start acting up if it bores her. They don't differentiate for math (although they will have her in a pull-out for her reading and writing), so she'll be using their program.

 

I tried giving her a typical first grade subtraction worksheet once we'd done 15 minutes of math this afternoon, and just walked away to see how she'd do. Well, she got two problems done, and then drew horns on ladybugs, haha. Not surprising, I guess. When I sat with her, she did two more problems (there were 8 on the sheet) and then she told me she was done. So...I guess that tells me this is her limit, regardless of the amount of effort it takes her. Hopefully school will be amenable to letting her finish a worksheet quickly and then move on to coloring or some other more creative activity, almost as a reward for sitting to finish. (Taking a walk with her aide might be even better.) I should discuss that with her teacher early on.

 

 

If she's doing SO WELL with other stuff, I am inclined to think that math is really the problem. I have two kids whose highest test scores are in math or at times have been in math (testing in the gifted range on the WJ), and they both are somewhat math-anxious. Math demands a lot of working memory and attention. Maybe she is sensing her own limits in this regard and backing off accordingly, not because she can't do it but because it feels a lot harder than attending to her preferred activities. 

 

She also may be allocating more mental energy than what you can see to her preferred activities without realizing it, and then she doesn't have much left for math. Like going hard at a job we love all day, and coming home not wanting to do housework.

 

Maybe she just has an emotional aversion to math for some reason yet to be known.

 

I am really glad that so many other things have gotten better. It sounds like she is on her way to a lot better regulation.

 

I agree that you don't know how she'll do at school, but I would not be able to stop myself from trying a few things at home that I think could be a problem to see how they will go. Listen to those other ladies about that! 

 

This is interesting...She does seem to understand concepts easily when she's first learning them, she can answer orally while I ask her questions as we go through the learning, so I always assume the worksheet review shouldn't be too much harder, especially if I'm scaffolding...but I can see why they'd be putting her on the spot and triggering her perfectionism. (Oops! Her tooth just fell out! And we have to leave for swimming...Thanks all, I'll be back later this afternoon. :) )

 

...and now I can't find the thread on the other board talking about the school situation and I can't remember what you decided to do.

 

Thinking out loud, maybe what you are seeing is asynchrony between her higher ability level in math and her math time being typical for her age (e.g., I've never timed it, but over the summer my dd7 voluntarily did some math worksheets for probably about 15 min before running out of steam/interest - that seems typical to me).  Asynchrony is fairly common in gifted kids.  For example, for my other kids, there was a lot of asynchrony between level of math ability and, say, handwriting... huge, gigantic, grand-canyon asynchrony LOL.

 

Where I might worry about school for an asynchronous kid is that getting stuck with grade-level math could be most unhelpful for patience/attention.  So, that would depend on what they give her.

 

For what you do at home, maybe the multi-digit problems would be more fun if you put them on a white board.

 

 

[kbutton]

We used MUS Primer (but orally and with extension work--me asking questions and taking concepts farther) for K and Miquon after that, so those manipulative heavy programs skew things a bit, but for my flighty younger kiddo, this might give you an idea of how big of a deal it can be for some kids to gets "written" and step-driven math down...my son figured out (with some well-placed questions) how to do multi-digit addition and subtraction with regrouping in late preschool, early K with rods, but he couldn't do it in writing until end of 1st. It was just too much keeping track of stuff. That's a big time gap. He learned a lot of basic multiplication, division, fractions, etc. in that time too (Miquon throws it all at them in small doses early on). Maybe having something else to do with math that is moving forward but not so difficult step-wise would give her a great foundation (and maybe confidence?) while also assuring you that she won't stagnate.

 

Have you used the Education Unboxed videos at all? They are free and manipulative-based.

[nature girl]

...and now I can't find the thread on the other board talking about the school situation and I can't remember what you decided to do.

 

Thinking out loud, maybe what you are seeing is asynchrony between her higher ability level in math and her math time being typical for her age (e.g., I've never timed it, but over the summer my dd7 voluntarily did some math worksheets for probably about 15 min before running out of steam/interest - that seems typical to me).  Asynchrony is fairly common in gifted kids.  For example, for my other kids, there was a lot of asynchrony between level of math ability and, say, handwriting... huge, gigantic, grand-canyon asynchrony LOL.

 

Where I might worry about school for an asynchronous kid is that getting stuck with grade-level math could be most unhelpful for patience/attention.  So, that would depend on what they give her.

 

For what you do at home, maybe the multi-digit problems would be more fun if you put them on a white board.

 

She's bright, but not gifted, and is definitely asynchronous, we have the same grand-canyon asynchrony with handwriting, and probably with attention span for all subjects. Her easy frustration also gets in the way...If she has a hard time with something she'll fall apart, although that's gotten somewhat better with meds. But it does make her give up too easily if I have to correct her. I hope they'll have ways of dealing with that in school. (Although I assume in school they don't do immediate correction for each problem...She might have an easier time if incorrect answers on a worksheet are just marked. On the other hand, seeing more than one incorrect answer might just make her fall apart...)

 

 

We used MUS Primer (but orally and with extension work--me asking questions and taking concepts farther) for K and Miquon after that, so those manipulative heavy programs skew things a bit, but for my flighty younger kiddo, this might give you an idea of how big of a deal it can be for some kids to gets "written" and step-driven math down...my son figured out (with some well-placed questions) how to do multi-digit addition and subtraction with regrouping in late preschool, early K with rods, but he couldn't do it in writing until end of 1st. It was just too much keeping track of stuff. That's a big time gap. He learned a lot of basic multiplication, division, fractions, etc. in that time too (Miquon throws it all at them in small doses early on). Maybe having something else to do with math that is moving forward but not so difficult step-wise would give her a great foundation (and maybe confidence?) while also assuring you that she won't stagnate.

 

Have you used the Education Unboxed videos at all? They are free and manipulative-based.

 

I love Education Unboxed, and we did Miquon Orange in Pre-K, I think it's a great idea to bring back the rods to use with her worksheets, to add a whole different level.

 

She does understand multi-digit addition and subtraction quite well, and if we do it at the beginning of a lesson she has no trouble with it. I also sneaked in regrouping assignments in her Prodigy game last night, and she breezed through them, so that may be a good way of handling it...having the game tell her if she's done the work correctly. She plays Prodigy while I'm getting dinner ready, her meds have already worn off by then, and last night she stayed attentive doing the problems for a half hour, with no mistakes. (Why is it that she can be given the same problems in a game and is able to attend so much better? The whole immediate reward thing, I guess. And I'm anti-media so hate using an app to solve these kinds of issues, but maybe it's not such an awful thing.) Now I'm wondering if school would let her use Prodigy during math time...

[OneStepAtATime]

With regards to media, FWIW, DS stays more focused with CTC math (online math program) than he does with CLE and he isn't playing games with CTC. I suspect part of it is that he does much better with color than black and white (showed up as a strong difference in functionality during an evaluation) plus he can focus on the math without getting bogged down in the writing. Also, the audio component tied in with the moving images/examples help him understand better plus keep his focus on the screen.

Edited August 19, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[nature girl]

That makes sense, she can focus on the SM textbook, which is all in color, quite well. It's definitely more enjoyable for her. I think the other piece of this is that in Prodigy they only present one problem at a time, which makes it much easier to focus than a complete worksheet. (I'm remembering the worksheets I grew up with, that had probably 50 addition problems in small writing on one page. I seriously don't think I could do those now. How did any little kids ever complete them without wanting to scream?)

[Arcadia]

My NT DS10 could only do 10mins of any sit down work before daydreaming at that age. He does his work walking around since we use an online charter for him.

 

My DS11 went to B&M public school and the teachers let him just bring any unfinished work home and he does not need to finish and return them. Kindergarten was typically four word problems with pictures at most per page for his envision math workbook. 1st grade wasn't much per page either also envision math.

 

Whatever accomodations your child need get it down in writing hopefully at the beginning of the year. My DS11 did not have a 504 or IEP but each k-2nd grade kid in that school has an annual learning plan which the teacher and parent sign off.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Arcadia