Thanks for your discussion! (DELETED)

[AnnE-girl]

I do not understand this mindset that marriage somehow is a death sentence to social life and having new experiences.

 

I'm pregnant with baby 11.

I'm leaving to go to socialize over coffee with a bunch of knitters.

 

My sons don't live in dorms, they have an apt. They have jobs. They clean their apt. They go to campus parties and clubs and events. If they met a gal and married her, they'd probably spend more time with her, but otherwise they wouldn't expect that to change. Maybe go do more stuff with her. Maybe be nice to have someone share the household upkeep. But this is not 1950 where if a gal gets married it means the entire world stops and starts to revolve around keeping her house clean and husband satisfied.

 

I do think about my husband and kids needs and making sure they get my time and energy too. I don't think having to think about someone besides only myself is a particularly awful life experience.

 

Some of you are talking like getting married is The End and all life is downhill from there, so a smart gal should at least wait until she is over the hill already anyways. Lol

 

So it brings me back to less concerned about age and more concerned about other stuff. Like is she apparently marrying a jerk who expects her to become Donna Reed and for her to not do anything without him once they are married. Bc if so, who cares about age, my advice is to just run and run fast in the opposite direction.

I don't think that marriage is some horrible end by any means, but I do think marrying that young can be very unwise. I'm not saying that some people don't meet their perfect match/soulmate/whatever at 16, but I think it's extremely rare. People change so much into their early 20s, and often the person who seemed really cool at 16 often isn't the best person to tie themselves to for the rest of their life. Of course, I'm married to a man who was with his high school sweetheart for six years. They were engaged his senior year of college, but had changed a great deal. It would have been a lot harder to end a marriage when he realized how much they had grown apart and changed than it was to break off an engagement. I just don't see why it would be necessary to make such a permanent commitment when one is barely a legal adult. Edited August 18, 2016 by AnnE-girl

[Guest]

I so wish this was true. I'd love nothing more than a post-vasectomy baby. Alas. I think that some people have higher than usual fertility and some of us come from long lines of lower than usual fertility (generations of women with infertility, no "oops" babies in the extended family, difficulty ourselves conceiving). For someone like me, birth control failure would be a miracle, but not a likely one.

 

The trouble is knowing where your body lies on the fertility continuum at an early age.

To the bolded? Absolutely! Such a good point.

 

It's not the case with us - I've only had one baby where I had to try more than two cycles to conceive (that kid was three) and I was fairly fresh postpartum and nursing was interfering with ovulation. I'm extremely fertile, but never had an issue with NFP and condoms working like a charm.

 

Fertility is definitely a spectrum and there is something to maternal AND paternal family histories. Both sides of my family get pregnant quite easily and have as long back as I can tell. Not too many oops babies (just one I can think of, in an age before widespread hormonal birth control) and only a few miscarriages for myself and others, but not an overly high percentage. No clotting disorders or major chromosomal issues either.

 

This is luck, no doubt about it - I am *lucky* to be very fertile and have healthy babies, and it's a huge blessing to our family I don't take for granted. Some women have a MUCH more challenging time of it on the genetics and plain ovulation and sperm count factors. Age can further compound this, not to mention random secondary infertility with no provable cause. I sometimes wonder how unfair it must feel to hear what a risk pregnancy is and then finally come off your birth control only to realize that pregnancy isn't a given at all for some situations. It breaks my heart to watch my friends go through fertility struggles :(

 

Sorry for the off topic diversion, this is something I feel strongly about.

[Guest]

How is that possible for most people? How do men know if they have high or low sperm counts without being tested? How does a woman know how many if any eggs she's releasing per cycle or any of the various infertility issues out there related to hormone levels, tubal blockages, uterine abnormalities, blood type incompatibilities? When I saw a reproductive endocrinologist for help with re-lactating for my soon to be adopted baby, the 20 minute consultation fee was $350 and insurance didn't cover it. How can young people afford those kinds of fees finding out where they are on a fertility scale?

 

My comments were made in the context of accidental pregnancies in early marriage. Since most people can't afford to pay a fertility specialist to test them and tell them where they are on the fertility scale, it's best to err on the side of caution to avoid surprises. Are there times when doubling up still doesn't do the job? Yes, but not nearly as often as when couples use only one method.

 

I think this can be so tricky. The way I plan on brooching it with my kids will involve discussing, frankly, that one needs to assume they are highly fertile and plan accordingly until they are ready or desiring a baby, then work the specifics of their cycle, body and their partner's body out from there. Watching things like their menstrual cycle details and fertility signals is useful when trying to prevent or conceive, and I really want my girls to be educated on that before they leave the house. I was able to diagnose a fairly serious health issue just from noting some cycle weirdness which was an unusual secondary symptom of a condition we wouldn't have uncovered without good cycle data. Yay for data gathering ;)

[Murphy101]

I don't think that marriage is some horrible end by any means, but I do think marrying that young can be very unwise. I'm not saying that some people don't meet their perfect match/soulmate/whatever at 16, but I think it's extremely rare. People change so much into their early 20s, and often the person who seemed really cool at 16 often isn't the best person to tie themselves to for the rest of their life. Of course, I'm married to a man who was with his high school sweetheart for six years. They were engaged his senior year of college, but had changed a great deal. It would have been a lot harder to end a marriage when he realized how much they had grown apart and changed than it was to break off an engagement. I just don't see why it would be necessary to make such a permanent commitment when one is barely a legal adult.

Of course people change a great deal as they age. I don't think that really stops at 25 though. I for sure am not the same wife and mother I was at 30. I think if anyone gets married thinking their spouse isn't going to change, and change a lot, they need someone to give them a reality check. Do you think young marriages that last last bc they didn't change? My Dh and I have changed a lot in 25 years. Or even the last 15. This year in particuliar has had some painful changes.

 

As for why a young couple might feel it necessary to make a permanent commitment...

The same reason any other couple of any age would.

Because the natural course of love tends to demand it. In many ways, love is like a living thing. It demands fed and nurtured and it grows. At some point in the relationship, it will grow enough that it will demand more of the couple than simply being together as boyfriend/girlfriend. That will no longer satisfy. And like living things, refusing to let it grow doesn't just cause it to pause in development, it causes it to decline.

[Murphy101]

As for babies.

 

I tell my kids that sex causes babies, so to not every act surprised if they had sex and end up with a baby. Though we are not for birth control, it really doesn't change my stance since no birth control is 100%.

If they are absolutely certain that a baby would be just the worst thing ever, I advise them to give serious thought to why the heck they are having sex with someone they wouldn't want a child with and or when they know they themselves don't want a child.

Thems the risks when they roll the dice. Maybe it's a low risk or maybe it's a high risk, but when the odds don't roll in your favor, knowing you got the statistics shaft isn't much comfort and doesn't change there's a baby in the way.

[Scarlett]

As for babies.

 

I tell my kids that sex causes babies, so to not every act surprised if they had sex and end up with a baby. Though we are not for birth control, it really doesn't change my stance since no birth control is 100%.

If they are absolutely certain that a baby would be just the worst thing ever, I advise them to give serious thought to why the heck they are having sex with someone they wouldn't want a child with and or when they know they themselves don't want a child.

Thems the risks when they roll the dice. Maybe it's a low risk or maybe it's a high risk, but when the odds don't roll in your favor, knowing you got the statistics shaft isn't much comfort and doesn't change there's a baby in the way.

I was thinking along the same lines early today.....I tell my son when he marries he should be prepared to raise a child. Even if they both dont want a child, marriage naturally and very often leads to a pregnancy. Of course he is aware having sex is what makes babies,,,,but for the purpose of our conversation it was assume no premarital sex.

 

I was only ever on one form of bc....and I never had a oops pregnancy. From the time I was 18 until I was divorced at age 43. So everyone e is different....and you better be willing to accept a baby if you want to have sex.