is there really a point to 4-H record keeping?

[caedmyn]

They just seem like...one more thing that I have to do/facilitate because my 10 YO is not capable of doing anything independently.  I don't really see the point in them and I don't want to feel stressed out because I don't even know if we filled everything out correctly and don't understand if we can even turn in the project things since she didn't complete all the requirements for either project, and they're due in two days. 

[Ellie]

They just seem like...one more thing that I have to do/facilitate because my 10 YO is not capable of doing anything independently.  I don't really see the point in them and I don't want to feel stressed out because I don't even know if we filled everything out correctly and don't understand if we can even turn in the project things since she didn't complete all the requirements for either project, and they're due in two days. 

 

The record book is what is used to earn the different stars/levels. If you aren't willing to do it, for whatever reason, then probably 4-H isn't for you. :-) Or maybe it will be for you *next* year. Did your dd enjoy the projects? Well, then, keep going but don't worry about achievement levels (yet).

 

Here's what one 4-H club says about record keeping.

 

There are also some PDF files on that page which may be helpful.

[itsheresomewhere]

In my local 4H- it is a joke and are done very half baked to get a small amount of money in the kids accounts. Leaders and parents are doing the books for the kids or one leader did it and sent out the version for the kids to copy. In our years in that 4H, my kids did not do them as I saw no point with it. Now other 4H's, do put meaning in it and they don't do them like ours.

 

In my experience, it really depends on your 4H.

[Ellie]

In my local 4H- it is a joke and are done very half baked to get a small amount of money in the kids accounts. Leaders and parents are doing the books for the kids or one leader did it and sent out the version for the kids to copy. In our years in that 4H, my kids did not do them as I saw no point with it. Now other 4H's, do put meaning in it and they don't do them like ours.

 

In my experience, it really depends on your 4H.

 

:crying:

 

That's so sad. 4-H is such a great program; I hate it when the grown-ups ruin it for the children.

 

By the way, a properly kept record book can be used as part of a college application portfolio, so there's that.

[itsheresomewhere]

:crying:

 

That's so sad. 4-H is such a great program; I hate it when the grown-ups ruin it for the children.

 

By the way, a properly kept record book can be used as part of a college application portfolio, so there's that.

[itsheresomewhere]

:crying:

 

That's so sad. 4-H is such a great program; I hate it when the grown-ups ruin it for the children.

 

By the way, a properly kept record book can be used as part of a college application portfolio, so there's that.

I expect unless something changes and a major overhaul happens for our county program to disappear. It is sad and they have lost so many kids. Other counties surrounding us have gained so many of our kids.

Edited August 16, 2016 by itsheresomewhere

[ktgrok]

This brings back memories!!! Late nights taping photos in, etc. But, unlike dumb science fair projects, I do remember thinking the project books had a purpose, and I was proud of them afterwards. 

[Ewe Mama]

Faith and Joy have both learned a lot about caring for their animals by filling out their record books. Joy weighs her turkeys every third day. Faith takes the time to write down how much time she spends training her pet rabbit and cleaning out her pen. This is our first year in 4-H and we have loved it. Yes, the animal projects take time, energy, and planning, but the children do grow. Joy has needed very little help from me, but I have had to be on hand to help Faith record some of the information or to answer her questions and give her a better understanding of what is being asked/required.

 

The boys all did non-animal projects, so they had various activities to complete, rather than record books. Each child had two projects, so we had a crazy summer of trying to get it all done. It was worth it, though. Joy and Faith both qualified for the state fair for their cooking projects and had a fabulous time, not to mention the incredible memories they have.

 

My kids are learning how to handle responsibility and I like that they are accountable to themselves, their parents, their advisors, and their club. They get a lot of help and encouragement, but they also get a kick in their pants if they start slacking off.

[Wheres Toto]

We are in 4-H and didn't do record books this year.  It was the first year for our club and most of the kids were new to 4-H.   There is no obvious ongoing project (we are a STEM club and do different things each month) like animal raising but there were individual projects that could be done if anyone wanted to.  I left it up to the kids if they wanted to do it or not.  There was something to gain by doing them (they aren't eligible for county or state awards without one), but they were still able to participate in our club, enter items in Fair, and enjoy 4-H without doing the record books.  This year I plan to nudge a couple of the returning members who showed interest and entered stuff in fair, to encourage them to do record books.

 

That said, for my kids - we are joining a dog training club next year which will mean a record book for one or both of them (anyone know how that works with two kids and one dog?) and I also plan to have one of them start a record book for caring for our snake, and maybe a couple other projects over the course of the year.  

 

[Jane in NC]

In the big picture, I say yes. My son was always astounded by his accomplishments over the year as he examined his project record keeping.  In high school, when he did cumulative records, there was a nice payoff:  cash prizes and state awards which he then listed on college applications.

 

There are so many 4-H skills which are useful in the real world:  public speaking, project organization, evaluation. 

 

It seems that homeschoolers often use project records as part of writing assignments.

[Hilltopmom]

We've done them some years when the kids were interested. We don't do animals & honestly, they are really not needed if you're just doing arts n crafts type activities.

 

I defiantly see why you have to keep records if you're raising animals (through 4 H or not).

[Pippen]

The record book is what is used to earn the different stars/levels. If you aren't willing to do it, for whatever reason, then probably 4-H isn't for you. :-) Or maybe it will be for you *next* year. Did your dd enjoy the projects? Well, then, keep going but don't worry about achievement levels (yet).

 

Here's what one 4-H club says about record keeping.

 

There are also some PDF files on that page which may be helpful.

 

The requirements for keeping records are set by individual clubs in our county. Some clubs don't require any, while others require kids show basic records in order to collect premium checks. 

 

I appreciate that there's flexibility, and that a task such as keeping records doesn't prevent kids from participating fully in the 4-H experience at the county level. Kids who want to participate on the state and national level have the option to go all out. 

[FaithManor]

In our Stem club, we do not have project books per se, but the kids have lab notes/reports that they have to keep in order to enter their projects in our annual regional 4-H science fair. Since dh and I write letters of recommendations - stellar ones if we are impressed by the student because we really like to help them get scholarships - not keeping proper lab records will result in not being one of the seniors who get a letter of recommendation from us. Our ds got an amazing one this year from our Natural Resource/Ecology judge as she has seen his work several years running and it got him into a college scholarship competition that netted him $2000.00, and was the reason he also got another $2000.00 from the county 4-H scholarship program. Definitely worth the time to teach him how to do his notes properly.

 

We have numerous kids wno choose not to do so. That's fine. However, the parents and student should have no expectation that when it comes time for the county and state 4H scholarships or those all important recommendations for college/character references for jobs, they will be forthcoming.

 

That said. You simply have to decide what you want out of the program. We didn't go into 4-H simply as a hoop to jump for college or future employment. We didn't become leaders for a STEM club for this reason either. I wouldn't recommend anyone take such a short sighted look at it. But we went into it not only for the social value of being with other kids who have a purpose and are gaining skills, but simply for the experiences and potential skills the kids could gain while in the program. We tend to be the kind of family that then goes rather gung ho once we join something.

 

You just need to decide if it has value for your family at this point with everything you are managing. Seasons in life. 

[madteaparty]

The paperwork is why I can't do 4h. I mean if DS was really into it, I would suck it up, but no way am I voluntarily filling out a gazillion forms so he gets a ribbon and then what do I do with all the ribbons?

Now watch DS get really into goats or whatever and I eat my words and become insane 4h mom. It's happened before.

Edited August 16, 2016 by madteaparty

[caedmyn]

We joined for the projects, exposure to other kids, and things like speech and demonstration contests.  I did 4-H as a kid, loved it, but there was no record keeping back then (at least not in my area).  So I don't feel like it's essential for 4-H.  She didn't do any animal projects.  One of the projects was a club project, and the club didn't finish it, and they may or may continue it next year.  The other only got done as much as it did because there were classes for it (sewing), and she doesn't want to finish it next year (and it probably wouldn't happen anyway without classes...we will likely be in survival mode for quite a while after baby comes).  It's really hard to say, "Oh this could be useful for college" when she's in 4th grade.  IDK...still waffling about trying to finish them up for this year.

[fairfarmhand]

When my dd did her scholarship applications it was quite handy to have a written record of all her stuff. That made the process much easier.

 

BTW, we didnt do written record books until she was in jr high and capable of doing it herself.c

[Guest]

They are mandatory in our club. Now, my kids are only in elementary school, but the high school kids in our group are earning scholarships and huge 4-H recognition, and trips to Washington D.C. At our end of the year party last year, some of the moms (of junior and senior kids) were talking about how the record book judges had made comments on the early year record book entries, so we do take them seriously even at this elementary age. I guess they are supposed to help us out filling out college forms, since the record books include all the kids extra curricular activities and community service (even outside of 4-H). So, they are a big deal around here.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Hmmm ... my kids have spent 8 years in 4-H and I had never even heard of record books. And I am technically a leader (don't really do much except be available for meetings for when the other, more experienced leaders can't make it to an event.)   Are these just for Ag projects?  These aren't the project books that teach you how to do the project (like Cooking 401), are they?   I looked on our county website to see if I was missing something and couldn't find anything like that.  We are a suburban county with very little Ag. 

 

In our county, you don't get premium checks unless you enter a project at the fair.  Some project areas require that you keep a notebook of activities that you have done and that is shown to the judges.  But, my kids haven't done many of those projects.  I didn't see anything about them in our State Fairbook either.  

 

Our leaders have a notebook of all non-fair accompishments the members have achieved.  It is up to the member to keep track of their project accomplishments, which is useful for scholarship applications and some award categories.   

[Guest]

My sister told me awhile back that the record keeping taught her a lot that has served her well later in her life.  It can teach good habits in keeping track of things (administration, assistance) and of progress in projects (project management, anyone?)  

 

 

[ktgrok]

Hmmm ... my kids have spent 8 years in 4-H and I had never even heard of record books. And I am technically a leader (don't really do much except be available for meetings for when the other, more experienced leaders can't make it to an event.)   Are these just for Ag projects?  These aren't the project books that teach you how to do the project (like Cooking 401), are they?   I looked on our county website to see if I was missing something and couldn't find anything like that.  We are a suburban county with very little Ag. 

 

 

 

 

Back in the dark ages when I did 4-H, it was for all projects. So if you did say, sewing, there was a place to describe the steps for making one of the garments, a place to record materials used, a place to put a picture of the finished product, etc. 

 

For gardening, similar. You'd record what you planted, when, how you fertilized, etc etc with photos, data, etc. 

 

Edited to add a link: http://4h.ucanr.edu/Resources/Members/RecordBook/

Edited August 16, 2016 by ktgrok

[dirty ethel rackham]

Record books are mandatory in CO. I think they should be. They are SUCH a major part of the project. Our county fair isn't just showing up with a jar of jam; it's learning about processing. The kid will have produced many, many jars of jam, pickles, whathaveyou before that perfect jar is turned in. They'll also do an interview. One of the cool things for foods here is that you can sell at auction an extra cake, pie, cookies, etc. The kids that do woodworking or photography can do a silent auction on a second knife tray or their best framed print. So the kid gets his premium (only about $7 for General Projects) but then might make $60 on his auction cake. And the kids that get Grand and Reserve get some kind of prize--might be a nice pair of sewing shears or a box of welding rod!

 

Wow.  Get to sell stuff and get swag?  Cool.  I suppose that is what happens when you have clubs that have absolutely no Ag background.  We have very little farmland left in our county.  Only people in unincorporated areas have any sort of livestock.  We can't even have chickens in our town.  I think we are fortunate to still have a county fair. 

 

At ours, I believe only the animals are sold if they want to.  I haven't been to the fair for any of the ag judging days.  The non-ag judging is before the fair opens to the public. Our kids get maybe $5-10 for a premium and a trophy and rosette for Grand or Reserve  And our state is over a year behind in paying premiums.  I think if you enter a project in a non-youth class (the name of it is escaping me right now), which cannot be entered in 4-H that year, you can sell your work.  However, food items are not sold.  Anyone selling food at the fair has to have this uber-expensive food permit which involves certifying that the kitchen was inspected by some agency. The kids only bring a small portion of the food they made (3 cookies or 1/4 of a cake or something like that.)  Only judge tastes it.  Last year, they stopped tasting the preserves for fear of food poisoning. (And the point is ???)   As a result, very few kids actually do that project. 

 

I guess the process of learning is talked about during conference judging.  We just don't have a book for it.  It is oral.  If someone cannot be there for conference judging, they have to fill out a form.  But, non-conference judged projects rarely get Grand. 

 

[Guest]

Back in the dark ages when I did 4-H, it was for all projects. So if you did say, sewing, there was a place to describe the steps for making one of the garments, a place to record materials used, a place to put a picture of the finished product, etc. 

 

For gardening, similar. You'd record what you planted, when, how you fertilized, etc etc with photos, data, etc. 

 

Edited to add a link: http://4h.ucanr.edu/Resources/Members/RecordBook/

 

Our club does them for all projects that we do - dog project, sewing, outdoor ed, shooting... we are not an Ag club. They are super involved; we follow all the guidelines of the above link.

[Laurel-in-CA]

Well, I'm convinced that my oldest dd's rank in 4-H (platinum star) helped her get a college scholarship. Her participation in a particular project led to a yearly contribution from the Arabian Horse Assn. local chapter. Those senior records of projects, citizenship, and service also turned right into a first resume. Yes record books are a lot of work, but if you do them after each project meeting, it's not nearly so overwhelming. It's really nice to look back and see those achievements.

 

A good 4H project leader helps the younger kids do RB. As in, let's take out our form and write down what we did at today's meeting, and what would you like to put on your extra project page, and surely you're going to do a presentation or enter the fair for this project so let's figure out what you need to do to accomplish that......