Marriage: being chill about morally neutral things that bug you

[Janie Grace]

I need help. It has recently come to my attention that my judgmental attitude is hurting dh and I really want to stop. But I'm having a hard time figuring out how to think about this and how to change my thinking (and my heart).

 

Dh enjoys smoking cigars now and then. He smokes the little mini ones. He also enjoys games on his phone (like pool and poker). Both of these things I find stupid and unattractive. I think smoking is gross (the smell, how it makes his breath smell), dangerous for one's health, and just, I don't know... lame. I am also aware that it's easy for it to become too much of a draw for him -- like if he has them, he wants to smoke them (not always great at moderation). This worries me as it relates to his health. The games on the phone thing I think is just a waste of time. I don't "get" gaming. It bugs me when I come into our room and he is playing one of these games instead of interacting with me and the kids, doing something productive, etc. Again, there are times when it becomes too much of a draw and he will delete them for a while. It's not like he doesn't self-moderate at all or is resistant if I say "this seems to be getting to be too much." But just seeing him smoking cigars or playing games on his phone ignites this critical, judgmental, self-righteous YUCK in me, and it definitely comes out. I think I am asking innocent questions ("how many have you had, what game are you playing") but he senses my disapproval acutely. And he's right, I AM feeling disapproval. It tempts him to sneak or not want to be around me while he relaxes. :(

 

I KNOW this is hypocritical. I waste plenty of time online that I could spend with the family or productively. I am not opposed to recreation, rest, or treats (although my personality makes pretty moderate; I'm not an over-indulger by nature). I just have a really hard time with stuff *I* find gross or dumb. Dh doesn't monitor my FB use or act like it's lame if he sees me on it. I want to be gracious like that. I want to be one of those wives that can just say "Oh you know Bill, he loves those cigars" and truly NOT CARE. It's not that I don't like him to have interests that differ from mine. He has been into running, reading about the Civil War, etc. Those interests I can find inherent value in and so I am supportive and happy for him to pursue them (I know this is totally subjective and unfair; I'm just being honest). But when I find an interest inherently NOT valuable, I am kind of a jerk. 

 

We had a long convo about this yesterday and we both realized that I tend to measure him against the yardstick of myself... like if I share or respect an interest, I'm cool with it, but if not, I don't like it. Yuck! That's so arrogant and lame. I want to stop being this way. Any suggestions? Any BTDT in becoming a more accepting/gracious spouse? Please be gentle; I am already feeling like a pretty big loser. But I do want help, so PLEASE weigh in.

[zoobie]

Both of those affect you. You're not a loser at all. :grouphug: I don't know what to tell you because the smoking would be a huge issue for me, and I loathe being phubbed.

[poppy]

This is something I'm not good at but I've learned from my husband: the only person you can control is yourself.

If you want to eat better, eat better.  Don't criticize the spouse's diet

If you want a cleaner house, clean.  Don't criticize the spouse's habits

Same goes with exercise, reading, hobbies, housework, hygiene. 

Not saying never talk about it, but in the moment ....... just be the best person you can be. 

Save conversations about annoying habits or patterns for a neutral time.

 

[TABmom]

Well, I can't help you with he cigars. I'd just try to ignore it. I wouldn't be kissing him or anything when he smelled like them. (I used to have an old boyfriend who chewed tobacco. It was disgusting. I certainly didn't act like I approved, but I didn't nag him about it either.) but maybe I can provide some perspective on the game thing. I play games on my phone sometimes- often before bed when dh may want to connect. But it's my way of shutting my brain down for awhile. The constant-ness of my brain having to work all the time dealing with the kids, means I need to have some time to shut down and zone out. Maybe your dh is the same?

[ktgrok]

How often does he smoke the cigars? My husband smokes cigars (the regular kind, good ones that he really likes) a few times a year. No more than I'd say 3 or four times a year, often once or less a year. At that point,I think the health hazards are probably negligible, and his relaxation counts towards his health too. 

He also showers afterwards, brushes his teeth, and changes clothes before going near me. (of his own volition)

 

Now, if you mean daily, or several times a week, that's a whole other issue health wise and something we'd be talking about. 2nd and 3rd hand smoke are real hazards, along with the damage he's doing to himself. 

[Janie Grace]

Well, I can't help you with he cigars. I'd just try to ignore it. I wouldn't be kissing him or anything when he smelled like them. (I used to have an old boyfriend who chewed tobacco. It was disgusting. I certainly didn't act like I approved, but I didn't nag him about it either.) but maybe I can provide some perspective on the game thing. I play games on my phone sometimes- often before bed when dh may want to connect. But it's my way of shutting my brain down for awhile. The constant-ness of my brain having to work all the time dealing with the kids, means I need to have some time to shut down and zone out. Maybe your dh is the same?

Yes, I think that is part of the appeal. He has a very active brain and has a hard time winding down at night. He gets over-stimulated very easily. So I think it is a way of focusing on on JUST ONE THING and quieting his mind a bit. 

[Janie Grace]

How often does he smoke the cigars? My husband smokes cigars (the regular kind, good ones that he really likes) a few times a year. No more than I'd say 3 or four times a year, often once or less a year. At that point,I think the health hazards are probably negligible, and his relaxation counts towards his health too. 

He also showers afterwards, brushes his teeth, and changes clothes before going near me. (of his own volition)

 

Now, if you mean daily, or several times a week, that's a whole other issue health wise and something we'd be talking about. 2nd and 3rd hand smoke are real hazards, along with the damage he's doing to himself. 

I'd say several times a week. I try to talk about the health hazards but he doesn't seem to believe me (or care). He hears it as nagging, I think.

[displace]

Honestly, you feel how you feel, IMO. You can't change that. You can control your actions but not your feelings. It's his choice to continue doing something that he knows bothers you. There's no point analyzing why you feel that way, you just do. It is his choice to stop doing those things or not, or maybe you can both come to a mutually agreeable solution. Would it bother you if you couldn't see it? If he only did that on his own time away from you?

[Guest]

I do this, too. And my list is looooong. They are not horrible things, they are simply things I DON't LIKE. Some of it is just that I know I am overall more irritable at present; hormones or whatever. Our dog died in April and one of the things I most don't like about not having the dog anymore is that DH did something worthwhile and good for his mental and physical health every day - he walked the dog for an hour or so. Without the dog, he substitutes things that I don't prefer and I feel my irritation rising as soon as he walks in the house or room.

 

I really think the answer for me will be medication so that I will not care. Want to play poker on your phone? Knock yourself out. I'm taking my Xanax and I couldn't care less. Heh.

[Guest]

I suspect I am the "husband" in your original scenario.

 

There are so many things my husband would prefer I do or not do.

 

And some of them are just personality annoyances and some of them are "legit" health concerns.

 

And he's *so* much better at taking constructive criticism than I am  (though, of course, in the right mood, I'd argue I'm better at GIVING constructive criticism... :laugh: )

 

But anyway, as the spouse that does the things, I'll say this. It's OK, completely totally fine, to make an official note of your disapproval, as it were. But just the once.

 

And you should do things as you see fit to do them. Including saying things like "I think smoking cigars X times a week is unhealthy, but Dad disagrees" to your kids, if you are so inclined. I mention that because of course ultimately the real exposed-bone worry is that the kids are learning some kind of something we don't want them to learn.

 

IOW, be yourself, unapologetically. But don't be a jerk.

 

Which is basically my whole ethos of marriage haha.

 

And talk through that process with your husband!! Tell him you want to nag every time he smokes...and nag definitely includes leading questions!...but that you're going to just tell him one last time...with addendums for any one-offs when you're particularly upset in the future....

 

Hug him. Tell him you love him, and be specific about it.

[hedwigtheowl]

I wonder if a gratitude list approach would help you? So when you see your husband doing something you disapprove of, stop and make a mental gratitude list of five of his qualities.

 

It is easier to replace a negative thought with a positive thought than to repress the negative thought.

 

Also, I would get him a super nice Cuban cigar! That will break the parent-child dynamic you have going on there. It's not a healthy habit but only he can stop it. If you hand the power back to him he may be more motivated to own the problem and address it.

[Guest]

Oh I will say, we move a lot, but in everey house we live in, we carve out space for DH to do whatever he wants.

 

So, video games.

 

It's really beneficial to have a spot that' not subject to spousal oversight. [our bedroom be default then becomes my "spot" because DH only comes there to sleep or hang out with me, but I spend as much time as possible reading there lol ]

 

It sounds like your huz needs his own spot!

[LucyStoner]

It helps to reframe your thinking and accept that we can't control the behavior of others.

 

Ain't nobody smoking no nothing in our home. Want to smoke? Walk all the way out to the street, in clothes you don't wear inside and then do the darn laundry and take a shower when you get back inside. For your sake, for my sake, for the kids' sakes and for the sake of the upholstery and rugs, lol. Smoking is definitely not a minor thing. Fortunately for me my husband hates it as much as I do because we both have parents who died prematurely (his dad 60, my mom at 55) in part due to smoking and we both can't handle the smell. I'd set boundaries around any smoking like I did with my mom but I wouldn't bug out at him when he was smoking (also just like I did with my mom.) No need to warn him about the health consequences because he knows them.

 

Unshared recreational activities like low quality games? I don't care about unless they are getting in the way of life. I have my own stupid recreational activities he can't understand or enjoy. For example, I will occasionally watch a few (or a few too many) criminal procedurals on Netflix. Anything like Criminal Minds or Law and Order SVU and he just leaves the room or hands me headphones. No judgment, just him recognizing he'd rather have a root canal without novacaine than watch or hear the content of those shows.

 

When I catch myself in negative thoughts about something my husband likes to do that I don't get, I just remember him handing me those headphones without annoyance or reproach.

[goldberry]

I can't stand cigarettes or cigars, so I totally get the gross-out.  Honestly though, I have very poor (=zero) exercise habits and I eat a lot of crap food.  Add to that my part time jobs are totally sedentary, I have a family history of heart disease, and a resting heart rate of 92.

 

My husband really worries about me.  (I worry about myself and am getting to the point where I have to do something.)  That said, when he sees me eating junk food, or sitting on the couch all day watching tv on a day off, he doesn't say anything or even give me "the look".  We have talked before and I know this is a big deal to him.  He is seriously concerned about my health.  I do know how he feels.  But he also knows it does no good to berate me or nag me about it. I love him for that.

 

About the video games, surely you have your own guilty pleasure?  If not, you should get one! ;)

[Arcadia]

Cigar - it is a health hazard for me. My late granduncle smoked cigars but never near me because he doesn't want to trigger my asthma. My smoking ex-colleagues would go somewhere else to smoke when they need a smoke break, and my former secretary has a bowl of mints as well as chewing gum sometimes for the smokers to help themselves to. I know only two smokers that successfully went cold turkey, the rest had to taper off.

 

So if it affect you health wise, state it. If not, have a discussion when you are not annoyed.

 

Games - my hubby plays and it affects our kids bedtime. They tell him off. Work is at a stressful season now so he plays when he gets home. My only criteria is that he helps me if I need him to. So if I need him to review German vocabulary with the kids because they are tired of mommy nagging, then he takes a break from his game to do it. Besides when he tells our youngest off for gaming too much, our youngest argue back. Our youngest has a time quota because he would get hooked onto screens.

So basically as long as he gives me or our kids attention when we need him to, he can game all he like to relax after work.

[foxbridgeacademy]

People are always talking about "screen time" keeping them awake, I use games (Boggle or solitaire) on my tablet as a way of shutting my brain down.  It's the quickest and easiest way I have found of relaxing.  As for the cigars..... at least it's not cigarettes.  If you hate the smell then you have every right to ask him to shower/change before coming around you but I don't think you should try to make him to quit, that's a personal decision and a battle he'll have to fight on his own when he's ready.

 

After 25 years of smoking I was able to quit with the help of e-cigarettes (took 2 months) this was my 5th attempt but I've been a non-smoker for almost 2 years now and it is still a daily struggle.

[helena]

I'd encourage my husband to start a poker night with some buddies. He can get it out of his system on guy time. :)

[Chris in VA]

So, lol, I have had my share of therapy, and I would approach this by looking at why it might bother me so much. I suggest looking at your past to see where you might have "borrowed " your attitude from. Is it a parental tape you heard growing up, like being productive adds to your worth? See what your core beliefs are. We can have core beliefs that sorta "go against" what we know to be logical or "right" and it is amazing how these beliefs can shape our attitudes.

[gardenmom5]

cigars aren't neutral - they're a health hazard. (and addictive too.) unless he ONLY smokes outside, they're a hazard for you and your children too in the form of 2nd hand smoke.

my grandfather smoked a pipe - he gave it up after his 2nd heart attack.

 

I don't have an issue with online games (depending upon the game) in moderation as it can break concentration.

 

pool (how does that work on a phone?  don't answer that.)  poker - does he spend money on it?  (if he does - that's not healthy either.  if he doesn't, I'd be wondering how long it would be before he started spending money on a site because he wanted a bigger thrill.)

[Bluegoat]

I can relate to this, I am that way about my dh's tv watching, mainly because I think the shows he chooses are pretty dumb.

 

So far, the best way for me to deal with this sort of thing is that I remember that he things cahatting on a homeschool forum is really dumb.  And, in a way I can see his point.

 

The smoking - I don't know that I agree the health thing is the main issue.  It might be, especially if you are really worried about a worse addiction.

 

However, we all choose to do some things that are not necessarily great for our health, and occasional smoking may not be worse than that.  My dh gets annoyed when I don't wear sunscreen, and says "I'll be really angry if you die of skin cancer."  Of course he does at times smoke, so I take that with a grain of salt (though in his case it is a stress/addiction issue, so maybe not the same as not choosing to wear sunscreen.) 

 

But what about people, for example, who get really into dangerous sports, or even just take something like running or other sports and pursue it to where it is, objectively, not good for heath?  That isn't uncommon with runners, or people into body-building, for example.  But we tend to be positively disposed to those things, and I think that is largely a cultural value, not because it is better.

 

I try and keep all this stuff in mind, and it helps to tell myself at times that I am being a snob.

[Ravin]

My DH smokes cigars occasionally--as in, 2-3 times a year, tops. Usually at a friend's house, where I don't have to smell it, sometimes outside at our house, with a warning to me so I don't have to smell it.

 

GF smokes cigarettes, and I used to be very critical--and it wasn't going to do anything to change her habit/addiction. Eventually, I got over myself. The boundaries are clear--she doesn't smoke in the house, and she airs out a bit before she comes back inside. I stopped harping and we get along better now. 

 

I don't hesitate to tell the kids often that it's a disgusting and unhealthy habit, and as they get older we talk about what addiction is and that the best solution is to never start in the first place.

 

Ultimately, you can't make someone change. Either you put up with them, or you don't. My family puts up with plenty from me in return for me putting up with them.

[Lady Florida.]

I understand. There are things dh does that bugs me that I *know* shouldn't bug me. I try very hard to ignore them and not tell him what I think. Sometimes I'll even make an excuse to leave the room so I don't have to watch him do whatever it is. "I'm going to the bedroom to read for a bit" or some such thing.

 

The cigars are something you can be concerned about because of health. I don't know much about cigars. Are they as bad as cigarettes? If so, you aren't being lame to be bothered but them. You just might need to find a different way to approach him - with love and concern rather than annoyance.

 

As far as the games go, that's something I'd suggest you try your best to ignore. It's not harmful and like you said he self moderates. 

 

You're not terrible. A lot of people have a personality type where they get annoyed over silly things. I know, I'm one. It's a matter of taming your responses. I try to have an internal conversation with myself before speaking up and saying something I'll regret.

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

After 25 years of smoking I was able to quit with the help of e-cigarettes (took 2 months) this was my 5th attempt but I've been a non-smoker for almost 2 years now and it is still a daily struggle.

 

Congratulations!   :hurray:

 

I also smoked for 25 years and quit 12 years ago after many, many attempts. Every ex-smoker knows about the failed (and sometimes half-hearted) attempts. I can tell you it gets better. For several years even after I no longer craved them, I still found the smell of cigarette smoke to be pleasant if I happened to be around someone who was smoking. I'm past that now, and I even notice how bad the lingering smell is on the clothes of a smoker.

 

I'm not one of those militant ex-smokers, but I'm very glad I quit and would encourage anyone else to quit. You'll get past the struggle.  :grouphug:

 

 

Sorry for the rabbit trail. Back to the thread. :)

[Onceuponatime]

This thread is making me glad I didn't get as upset as I wanted to last night, when I found out dh had once again checked out a library copy of a book that we own. Sigh.

[Bluegoat]

I understand. There are things dh does that bugs me that I *know* shouldn't bug me. I try very hard to ignore them and not tell him what I think. Sometimes I'll even make an excuse to leave the room so I don't have to watch him do whatever it is. "I'm going to the bedroom to read for a bit" or some such thing.

 

The cigars are something you can be concerned about because of health. I don't know much about cigars. Are they as bad as cigarettes? If so, you aren't being lame to be bothered but them. You just might need to find a different way to approach him - with love and concern rather than annoyance.

 

As far as the games go, that's something I'd suggest you try your best to ignore. It's not harmful and like you said he self moderates. 

 

You're not terrible. A lot of people have a personality type where they get annoyed over silly things. I know, I'm one. It's a matter of taming your responses. I try to have an internal conversation with myself before speaking up and saying something I'll regret.

 

Cigars and pipes seem to be more associated with cancer of the mouth, because people don't normally inhale.  But it's a similar risk level I think.

 

I wouldn't tend to worry much about a few cigarettes or cigars a week though. (Say, five or less.) 

[Lady Florida.]

This thread is making me glad I didn't get as upset as I wanted to last night, when I found out dh had once again checked out a library copy of a book that we own. Sigh.

 

At least he didn't buy one you already own. ;)