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Husband Fail in Moment of Crisis w/DD


goldberry
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I have been married 30 years to a wonderful man, who I would have previously said did not have an ounce of sexism in his body.  Seriously, no derogatory comments about women's appearances, nothing demeaning EVER from this man's mouth.

 

Last Sunday, I was gone all day.  Husband and DD17 planned to go to a movie in the afternoon.  DH was running errands in the morning.  DD got dressed that morning with the thought of going out to a movie.  She is very stylish and has lots of cute clothes.  She dressed in a cute floral romper. We have really been encouraging her to get outside more, so while waiting on DH to get home, she decides to go out on a walk around the block.  

 

While out on her walk, an older man in a van tried to get her to get in the car with him. ??!!!!  She kept her cool, said no way, and started walking back in the opposite direction from the van.  She got home, locked all the doors, and set the alarm.  Waited for dad to get home.

 

Dad got home and she told him what happened.  She was very shaken up.  The first thing dad said was, "is that what you were wearing?"  ???!!!  She said, "What?" and he said, "Why would you be wearing that for a walk, you don't think that's a coincidence do you?" 

 

:eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :confused1:  :confused1:  :confused1:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:

 

DD texted me immediately and is of course really upset now.  I call husband immediately, "What is going on???"  We have a short "discussion" where I "calmly" remind him of a few things.  Then he says, "Wow, I handled that badly didn't I?"  Uh, yes.

 

He went in and apologized to her, reassured her that of course it was not her fault and had nothing to do with what she was wearing, he doesn't know why he said that he was just caught off guard.  DD was okay with his apology (they have a good relationship normally.)

 

Later when I got home, of course after talking with DD extensively, I asked husband, "What the heck?  Why in the world would you react that way?"  He said he really didn't know, he was scared and upset that happened, and that was just the first thing that came into his mind and out of his mouth.  He said after talking to me and thinking about it, of course it made no sense, that women were harassed and accosted no matter what they were wearing, and it was about the man looking for opportunity, etc.   He said he didn't really know why he did that and it was not good at all.

 

I was just so shocked.  The only think I can think is that he wanted some "reason" so he could feel like it could be controlled or prevented?  Also, we have somewhat of a family history of DD overdressing for various events because she loves clothes so much, and I'm wondering if that was there in the background as well, his previous frustrations at her overdressing.  

 

Again, you will just have to trust me that I KNOW this man, and he would be the last person on earth I would have ever thought would make such a comment, especially to our daughter.

 

Ugh.  We did report the incident to the police.

Edited by goldberry
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How terribly frightening for your daughter! No woman deserves to be accosted like that when just out for a leisurely walk. (Or any time, really.) The guy in the van was a heel.

 

As for you dh, yes, his initial reaction was wrong. But I think he followed through in an appropriate manner, the best he could have done.

 

And good for you for reporting it to the police. And kudos to your daughter for taking the appropriate safety precautions!

Edited by Kinsa
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I agree with your thought. I think sometimes when something bad/upsetting happens, we look for a reason, as if we could have controlled and prevented the situation. It's hard to accept that bad things happen, that we can't control and prevent every bad thing that might happen to our kids.

 

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I agree with zoobie. I know some people say you get to see the truth about people when they're angry or scared or uncertain, but I think it's more likely that you see the ingrained cultural expectations. You know the real person and that comment clearly doesn't represent him.

 

I'm sorry that happened to your daughter.

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Well, my intial thought reading that was "HORRORS!" But with your explanation of his contrition, I don't think this is too big a deal. It was a bad moment, yeah, but we all have had them.

 

I think it is not uncommon for dads to have anxiety about their DD's looking like attractive *women*, not little girls anymore.

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How terribly frightening for your daughter! No woman deserves to be accosted like that when just out for a leisurely walk. (Or any time, really.) The guy in the van was a heel.

 

As for you dh, yes, his initial reaction was wrong. But I think he followed through in an appropriate manner, the best he could have done.

 

And good for you for reporting it to the police. And kudos to your daughter for taking the appropriate safety precautions!

 

Yes, DH apologized rather quickly, and then spent a lot of time telling her how proud he was of her that she kept her cool and reacted so well, that she did awesome, etc. It's a good thing, or I might have strangled him.

Edited by goldberry
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I think it is not uncommon for dads to have anxiety about their DD's looking like attractive *women*, not little girls anymore.

 

I think this was part of it definitely.  DD is quite attractive and is at that phase where she gets male attention everywhere she goes.  I often see DH simmering and/or fidgeting very awkwardly in the background.

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Believe it or not, the guy actually used the "go with me to help me find my lost dog".  I thought that was such a cliche, but apparently not.

 

And in case anyone thinks that was legit, no, an older man asking a young girl TO GET IN THE CAR WITH HIM is not legit.  The police agreed.

Edited by goldberry
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We ALL say and do things we know to be wrong without meaning to in the moment.  His shock at his own reaction shows that he does not BELIEVE what he said to be true or relevant, but that there is a sliver of him that's been socially conditioned.  I think it's pretty safe to assume he's disturbed enough by that knee-jerk reaction to kill it.  And conveying that to his daughter means everything.

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In a way, it's good that this happened within the family so your daughter could process it in a loving environment and develop a rational understanding of what happened.  It's great that your husband also thought it through rationally and apologized, thus building trust instead of eroding it.

 

There will be other situations where less caring people are involved.  She will be ready and may be able to do some educating.

 

I'm glad nothing awful came out of the situation.  Onward and upward!  :)

 

The fact is that we all have biases that we don't even know are there.  This is just one example.  Your husband gets points for being honest and self-examining instead of defensive (like many would be).

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I was just so shocked.  The only think I can think is that he wanted some "reason" so he could feel like it could be controlled or prevented?  Also, we have somewhat of a family history of DD overdressing for various events because she loves clothes so much, and I'm wondering if that was there in the background as well, his previous frustrations at her overdressing.  

 

Again, you will just have to trust me that I KNOW this man, and he would be the last person on earth I would have ever thought would make such a comment, especially to our daughter.

 

Ugh.  We did report the incident to the police.

 

The bolded. At that moment of outrage and fear, we can all say things that don't make much sense. He sounds like a great guy who evaluated his actions and apologized.

 

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I am assuming that the clothes were in fact appropriate to wear outside.

 

That said, I would not go so far as to say it's wrong for teens to know how some adults read some styles of dress and behavior.  Personally I would rather have that information than not.  One needs to be careful how it is communicated, of course.  It might be better coming from Mom than Dad.

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I am assuming that the clothes were in fact appropriate to wear outside.

 

That said, I would not go so far as to say it's wrong for teens to know how some adults read some styles of dress and behavior.  Personally I would rather have that information than not.  One needs to be careful how it is communicated, of course.  It might be better coming from Mom than Dad.

 

What clothing reads, "Hey, I want you to trick me into getting into your car so you can abduct me?"

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I am assuming that the clothes were in fact appropriate to wear outside.

 

 

Clothing was completely appropriate.  It did not look like "walking" clothes (which I would call tshirt and jeans or shabby shorts) because she was dressed to go out to the movies and squeezed in a walk at the last minute.  

 

Similar to this

http://www.thelabeljunkie.com/new-in/1027-floral-keyhole-back-romper.html

She wasn't wearing heels though. 

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Yes it was wrong but at least he saw the error of his ways and apologized, that is the important thing!

Clothing was completely appropriate.  It did not look like "walking" clothes (which I would call tshirt and jeans or shabby shorts) because she was dressed to go out to the movies and squeezed in a walk at the last minute.  

 

Similar to this

http://www.thelabeljunkie.com/new-in/1027-floral-keyhole-back-romper.html

She wasn't wearing heels though. 

Please don't feel you need to defend your daughter's clothes. It had nothing to do with what she was wearing- it was a creep looking for any girl there was- 

Edited by soror
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Our town had a couple of incidents awhile back where someone was trying to get girls into his car.  They were middle school girls wearing jeans and sweatshirts if I remember correctly from the news story.  I remember thinking they just looked like young everyday girls.  

 

 

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So sorry that happened.

 

In regards to your DH's reaction...heck, whenever I'm sexually harassed (I work with the public) I often wonder if it's because of what I was wearing/how I was standing/did I smile too much...it's utterly stupid. It only lasts for a few seconds; that thought process, but it's there none the less.  Unfortunately it's the culture we live in. 

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But we are fighting that culture, we aren't there yet but we're working on it, THAT gives me hope. Our daughters have less of this to deal with then we did and it will be even better for our granddaughters. Kudos to your dh for recognizing he was wrong, some men in the US even today would have kept the blame on her instead of on the predator where it rightly belongs. This conversation is such an important one.

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It takes a good person to see the error in their initial reaction and non-defensively apologize rather than to dig in their heels and stick to whatever they said first just because they said it first. Your husband is a good egg.

 

As a teenager I had many similar sketchy situations with men trying to get me alone. I was usually dressed for school in 1990s Seattle grunge/punk getup meaning I was almost always wearing many pounds of layers from ankle to wrist to collarbone. It's not the clothing that causes these men to be jerks. It's the the jerkiness that causes them to be jerks. I know you know this. I find remembering my own experiences with sexual harrassment in a decade where it was trendy to be wearing ridiculous amounts of layers helps me avoid the second guessing of the victim that is so common in our culture.

Edited by LucyStoner
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what I think. . . .

 

he has a 17 yo daughter, and it hit him that she is vulnerable to males who would harm her. I bet it frightened him too. she isn't a little girl anymore that he can keep at home and keep safe.

 

I had a perv following me when I was a young teen.  i was wearing jeans and a short-sleeved t-shirt.  and walking two LARGE dogs.

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Our town had a couple of incidents awhile back where someone was trying to get girls into his car.  They were middle school girls wearing jeans and sweatshirts if I remember correctly from the news story.  I remember thinking they just looked like young everyday girls.  

 

Interesting that even you thought to wonder whether what they were wearing might be a factor.

 

For me, it goes back to when I was a teen in a small town and I knew girls who bragged about wearing short-shorts / certain style of halter down the street with the goal of getting "picked up" - and bragged that they got picked up etc.  I saw teen girls happily being "picked up" with my own eyes.  Whether that makes me biased or experienced I don't know.  Maybe teens don't do that any more.

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I think our first reaction to scary incidents like this is to try to find a way to control the situation. If the clothes were the reason the man stopped, then by changing her dress code you Dh could make your dd safe. Unfortunately, that is not the case. But it is our instinct to want to protect or fix or find a reason within our control when things like this happen.

 

I am glad all turned out well. Such a scary situation and you all handled it so well.

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I'm glad your DD is OK. That is the most important part of what you wrote. I'm sad that your DH said what he said and I hope that you and your DD  can and will forgive him.

 

Your DD (and IMO girls, young women and all women, should check out this web site. "Just Yell Fire". I saw her in an "Extra" on Fox News Channel, many times, years ago.   It might save someone's life.

 

 

http://justyellfire.com/

         

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Later when I got home, of course after talking with DD extensively, I asked husband, "What the heck?  Why in the world would you react that way?"  He said he really didn't know, he was scared and upset that happened, and that was just the first thing that came into his mind and out of his mouth.  He said after talking to me and thinking about it, of course it made no sense, that women were harassed and accosted no matter what they were wearing, and it was about the man looking for opportunity, etc.   He said he didn't really know why he did that and it was not good at all.

 

I was just so shocked.  The only think I can think is that he wanted some "reason" so he could feel like it could be controlled or prevented?  Also, we have somewhat of a family history of DD overdressing for various events because she loves clothes so much, and I'm wondering if that was there in the background as well, his previous frustrations at her overdressing.  

 

Again, you will just have to trust me that I KNOW this man, and he would be the last person on earth I would have ever thought would make such a comment, especially to our daughter.

 

Ugh.  We did report the incident to the police.

 

I'd let it go. He reacted and then thought better of it. 

 

Once a college student made totally inappropriate comment about liking s*** with older women when I was teaching. I had a polo shirt and khakis on because I'm an IT professor and have to crawl under the desks to check cables and such in a warm computer lab. Nothing was showing that wasn't supposed to show. And trust me, I'm nothing great to look at. I told the student to leave the classroom for the evening and not come back to class with that attitude again. I also reported him for harassment. He dropped.

 

I told DH, and he had the same reaction, blaming me, and then apologized.

 

We had a similar situation some years back when mine had a winter coat and loose pants on. It happens.

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Interesting that even you thought to wonder whether what they were wearing might be a factor.

 

 

 

No, I didn't wonder about it.  When this happened, I brought it up to DH as an example.  I remember thinking they just looked like normal kids. I also remember thinking that if they had been wearing anything else, someone would have probably pounced on it.

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I'd give the guy a break. He realized it was a mistake, it's not normally his behavior... These attitudes are just out there and we pick up on them without even realizing it. He realized a flaw in his thinking and apologized. Kudos to him. Though I'm sorry that your daughter had to face that reaction when she was already freaked out.

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It takes a good person to see the error in their initial reaction and non-defensively apologize rather than to dig in their heels and stick to whatever they said first just because they said it first. Your husband is a good egg.

 

 

Yeah, I'll probably keep him...   :001_wub:  I've always told DD that a sincere apologizer is a quality to look for in a mate. 

 

It really did impress on me how pervasive that attitude is though. 

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He probably didn't even think of what he was saying when confronted with such a shocking and scary incident.  I can definitely understand being disappointed in his response, though.  It was less than stellar, to say the least.  On the up side, he apologized.  There are a lot of men who won't apologize for anything.  (women, too, but I notice the prevalence in men)  Thankfully, your dd is safe and well.  I would look at it as a learning moment for all of you, and be glad it didn't go as badly as it could have. 

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I think it shows how pervasive and ingrained that type of blame is in our culture. Even good people get their brains overridden when they're stressed. You want it to be a reason that can be controlled. :grouphug: Your DD is a rockstar! 

I agree.

 

He's got a good track history and sees the error of his reaction. As long as he quickly and fully apologizes to DD, I'd chalk it up to a mistake. 

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So, I know no one is to blame for what happens when they look nice and get harassed or victimized. Plus victim blaming is absolutely inappropriate in any situation -- and very serious when it goes from a dad to a daughter during a difficult moment. And, yes, women of all shapes, sizes, ages, and styles of dress do get harassed and victimized.

 

Knowing all that, I still find myself thinking: don't most creeps tend to skew their attention at least somewhat towards women they find attractive? Or at least some of them? Some of them maybe harass every female 100% of the time, without detectable bias of any kind... But wouldn't you think that a lot of them would be biased towards attractive victims? Lots of criminals target victims in a biased way. Is it a form of victim blaming to think so? Am I actually mistaken?

 

It's not a crime to be attractive, or to dress attractively. In fact most of us would like to think we dress attractively, or at least flatteringly. It shouldn't be punished -- but, it kinda is? Isn't it? I don't think it's a "coincidence" that a pretty young woman in nice clothes gets targeted when she goes for a walk.

 

Not that it should be said to anyone in any way that has a hint of blame or shame... The dad was wrong to say it, especially how he said it, but I'm not sure that his idea of 'not a coincidence' are off base in the factual/statistical sense.

 

I'm open to correction, though.

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So, I know no one is to blame for what happens when they look nice and get harassed or victimized. Plus victim blaming is absolutely inappropriate in any situation -- and very serious when it goes from a dad to a daughter during a difficult moment. And, yes, women of all shapes, sizes, ages, and styles of dress do get harassed and victimized.

 

Knowing all that, I still find myself thinking: don't most creeps tend to skew their attention at least somewhat towards women they find attractive? Or at least some of them? Some of them maybe harass every female 100% of the time, without detectable bias of any kind... But wouldn't you think that a lot of them would be biased towards attractive victims? Lots of criminals target victims in a biased way. Is it a form of victim blaming to think so? Am I actually mistaken?

 

It's not a crime to be attractive, or to dress attractively. In fact most of us would like to think we dress attractively, or at least flatteringly. It shouldn't be punished -- but, it kinda is? Isn't it? I don't think it's a "coincidence" that a pretty young woman in nice clothes gets targeted when she goes for a walk.

 

Not that it should be said to anyone in any way that has a hint of blame or shame... The dad was wrong to say it, especially how he said it, but I'm not sure that his idea of 'not a coincidence' are off base in the factual/statistical sense.

 

I'm open to correction, though.

Everything I've read is that perps target whomever they have access to, whomever makes the easiest victim. As we know most crimes of this nature are by people that are close to you, not random strangers. So, no I don't think it has anything to do with dress and I've not read anything credible that suggests that is true.

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So, I know no one is to blame for what happens when they look nice and get harassed or victimized. Plus victim blaming is absolutely inappropriate in any situation -- and very serious when it goes from a dad to a daughter during a difficult moment. And, yes, women of all shapes, sizes, ages, and styles of dress do get harassed and victimized.

 

Knowing all that, I still find myself thinking: don't most creeps tend to skew their attention at least somewhat towards women they find attractive? Or at least some of them? Some of them maybe harass every female 100% of the time, without detectable bias of any kind... But wouldn't you think that a lot of them would be biased towards attractive victims? Lots of criminals target victims in a biased way. Is it a form of victim blaming to think so? Am I actually mistaken?

 

It's not a crime to be attractive, or to dress attractively. In fact most of us would like to think we dress attractively, or at least flatteringly. It shouldn't be punished -- but, it kinda is? Isn't it? I don't think it's a "coincidence" that a pretty young woman in nice clothes gets targeted when she goes for a walk.

 

Not that it should be said to anyone in any way that has a hint of blame or shame... The dad was wrong to say it, especially how he said it, but I'm not sure that his idea of 'not a coincidence' are off base in the factual/statistical sense.

 

I'm open to correction, though.

No, that doesn't fit with the research I've seen. Sexual predators may have a "type," but it isn't young, attractive women across the board. People of all shapes, sizes, and appearances get attacked. Might be little boys or old women. Might be whomever's available.

Edited by zoobie
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Everything I've read is that perps target whomever they have access to, whomever makes the easiest victim. As we know most crimes of this nature are by people that are close to you, not random strangers. So, no I don't think it has anything to do with dress and I've not read anything credible that suggests that is true.

 

I agree with this.

 

But even if what bolt said was true, that perps target who they find attractive... what could anyone possibly do about that?  Should women specifically dress and look "less" attractive, just because they might attract a pervert?  People find totally different things attractive.  It would be pointless, as well as just giving in to fear.

 

Some women look amazing no matter what they wear.  They shouldn't have to just stay home.

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So, I know no one is to blame for what happens when they look nice and get harassed or victimized. Plus victim blaming is absolutely inappropriate in any situation -- and very serious when it goes from a dad to a daughter during a difficult moment. And, yes, women of all shapes, sizes, ages, and styles of dress do get harassed and victimized.

 

Knowing all that, I still find myself thinking: don't most creeps tend to skew their attention at least somewhat towards women they find attractive? Or at least some of them? Some of them maybe harass every female 100% of the time, without detectable bias of any kind... But wouldn't you think that a lot of them would be biased towards attractive victims? Lots of criminals target victims in a biased way. Is it a form of victim blaming to think so? Am I actually mistaken?

 

It's not a crime to be attractive, or to dress attractively. In fact most of us would like to think we dress attractively, or at least flatteringly. It shouldn't be punished -- but, it kinda is? Isn't it? I don't think it's a "coincidence" that a pretty young woman in nice clothes gets targeted when she goes for a walk.

 

Not that it should be said to anyone in any way that has a hint of blame or shame... The dad was wrong to say it, especially how he said it, but I'm not sure that his idea of 'not a coincidence' are off base in the factual/statistical sense.

 

I'm open to correction, though.

 

I wondered this, too, but didn't know how to word it without it coming out wrong.

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If we want our dauhters not to be assaulted the number one thing would be to make sure we are careful who we let into our life and give access to our kids and (2) teach our kids about assault and that it is NEVER the fault of the victim and to always tell us anytime someone does anything inappropriate. 

 

Telling our daughters (or sons) that some blame lies in the victim only makes them an easy target. Oh, this one won't tell because they will think they did something wrong. 

 

Modest clothing doesn't save our kids from molest, just ask the Duggar girls. It isn't about what people wear. It isn't about sex. It is about power and control.

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Everything I've read is that perps target whomever they have access to, whomever makes the easiest victim. As we know most crimes of this nature are by people that are close to you, not random strangers. So, no I don't think it has anything to do with dress and I've not read anything credible that suggests that is true.

 

I am not sure I agree that this was a "crime" to begin with.  It isn't clear from the OP, but I got the impression the guy was inviting a young woman into his vehicle, not attempting an abduction / rape.

 

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Believe it or not, the guy actually used the "go with me to help me find my lost dog". I thought that was such a cliche, but apparently not.

 

And in case anyone thinks that was legit, no, an older man asking a young girl TO GET IN THE CAR WITH HIM is not legit. The police agreed.

 

 

I am not sure I agree that this was a "crime" to begin with. It isn't clear from the OP, but I got the impression the guy was inviting a young woman into his vehicle, not attempting an abduction / rape.

 

The explaination that goldberry posted about this man using would give most anyone over the age of about 10 pause. To help him "find a lost pet" certainly raises red flags that his intentions were not innocent or valid. I mean, really? Edited by LucyStoner
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The explaination that goldberry posted about this man using would give most anyone over the age of about 10 pause. To help him "find a lost pet" certainly raises red flags that his intentions were not innocent or valid. I mean, really?

 

I don't know that his intentions were saintly, but at 17 she's not under-aged.  Lost pet aside, it was not illegal for him to invite her into his car.  She said no and walked away.  Her creep meter went off, probably for good reason.  But a crime did not occur, and we don't know a crime was intended.

 

I point this out because people are bringing up rape statistics and applying them to a situation that, while on the fringe of social norms, is not comparable to rape.  Someone raised a question of whether attractive dress / appearance makes it more likely for some crass guys to give unwanted attention to a woman on the street.  Rape statistics don't answer that question IMO.

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I agree with this.

 

But even if what bolt said was true, that perps target who they find attractive... what could anyone possibly do about that?  Should women specifically dress and look "less" attractive, just because they might attract a pervert?  People find totally different things attractive.  It would be pointless, as well as just giving in to fear.

 

Some women look amazing no matter what they wear.  They shouldn't have to just stay home.

of course - dressing to avoid one type of perv might just attract another type of perv - depending upon what they gravitate towards.  (big eye roll.)

so, just might as well just dress normal instead.  

I am not sure I agree that this was a "crime" to begin with.  It isn't clear from the OP, but I got the impression the guy was inviting a young woman into his vehicle, not attempting an abduction / rape.

 

why would a stranger use a cliche lure of "help me find my lost puppy" to get her into his car?  do you honestly think his intentions were honorable?  that lure is such a cliche for child s3x predators.

 

eta: the POLICE didn't think this was innocent - even if no actual crime had *yet* been committed.

Edited by gardenmom5
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