McGuffey

[Hunter]

Kat, I'm not sure what you think I said was KJV. I don't think any KJV text is quoted in the Mott Media readers, if that is what you meant. I said they prepared for KJV reading and pre-1840 literature better than newer sets.

 

A lot of people call pre-1840 literature hard. My youngest used to listen to KJV audio tapes at least an hour a day while laying on the floor coloring Bible story pictures. He became bilingual to older and newer English. He truly didn't understand why people thought books were "hard" that really were just a different dialect that he was fully fluent in.

 

Dryden's translations of Greek and Latin books, Pilgrim's Progress, and even Shakespeare were easy reading for him. He got seriously annoyed with book groups that wanted to use what he considered inferior translations to Dryden because they found his translations hard. He didn't even know what they meant.

 

I cannot recommend any of these sets over the others. They all have their uses. It all depends on what your lifestyle and worldview is. I basically have no worldview anymore, but I can identify which books might be best for people with worldviews the same or similar to groups I have lived among. And once you make a choice, I can help you fill in any gaps that arise that you don't know how to fill.

[vaquitita]

Lol. Hunter, I know you would be the last person to say throw out what's working. :D But I always enjoy your comments because you keep it real. Emphasizing the importance of the individual home in homeschooling. It's easy when researching and planning to get carried away by an ideal, often someone else's ideal. :)

 

I started this thread because what I'd using in the past wasn't really working for me- what I did with my oldest was too much work for me, and AAR... Well I just didn't enjoy it.

 

 

When using a sightwork or literature based reader set, you need to supplement with an old fashioned syllabary or O-G or something. If I remember correctly RLTL supplies a lot of O-G lessons before starting the 1st reader.

...Many reader sets were not designed to teach decoding and phonics. There was a speller for that!

This makes a lot of sense. And thinking on it, it's what I've ended up doing with my oldest. I taught him to read with the Treadwell primer. Then at 9 we went thru some of the simplified websters syllablary and at this point he was old enough to find it interesting, he'd say oh thats why that one's a long sound. :) And of course this past year we used RLTL which is like WRTR but built around the Elson readers.

 

I'm not sure how soon to start RLTL with a young kid I've taught to read with bob books? My soon to be 6yo reads very well, and is certainly my best speller for his age. He basically learned with bob books, but did do AAR levels 1&2 tho it was all review for him. I do want to use RLTL with him, but I'm debating over starting it now or saving 'spelling' till he's 9. Otoh, if I start it this year, the syllabication might really help him decode multi syllable words. Some times he figures those out and sometimes not.

[vaquitita]

A lot of people call pre-1840 literature hard.

You made me look. I had to go see whether the books I read are pre or post 1840. :D

[vaquitita]

I cannot recommend any of these sets over the others. They all have their uses. It all depends on what your lifestyle and worldview is. I basically have no worldview anymore, but I can identify which books might be best for people with worldviews the same or similar to groups I have lived among. And once you make a choice, I can help you fill in any gaps that arise that you don't know how to fill.

Now I want a list of all these groups :) Maybe one will fit me and then I can benefit from your experience :D

[Hunter]

If someone is starting from scratch and not invested in anything, Blumenfeld's free Alpha Phonics is very unlikely to fail.

http://blumenfeld.campconstitution.net/. 

 

Hoenshel's chart work and Wiley McGuffey are another can't fail.

 

O-G later as spelling IF and only IF mom has time can improve spelling in SOME kids. It is not a hill to die on. I don't recommend starting with it. O-G is fascinating to US because we function at a Rhetoric level. What fascinates us seldom is the best method for teaching grammar stage students.

 

I learned to read at 4 by memorizing Seuss's Go Dog Go. Then I figured out some very basic phonics that I applied to new words. I was living in a semi-tropic country that was in the middle of riots. We had very limited access to TV and my parents were...well...busy at the time :lol: and I was BORED out of my mind. But my point is that sight words first and phonics/spelling later does work for some kids.

 

When my oldest wasn't learning to read with the school's phonics only and first approach, I traced some pictures out of a Teenage Mutant Ninja coloring book and wrote him a sight word book and used that to teach him how to read. That was how I learned to read and it was all I knew to do at the time. In just a few months he was reading and understanding the school phonics when he had some pegs to hang those lessons on.

[Hunter]

That thread about the 1836 home library is useful. Mott Media McGuffey was part of an explosion of literature and a turning point in worldview.

 

Mott Media prepares best for what came before 1840. Wiley best prepares for what came after.

 

Treadwell is the best LITERATURE collection by MODERN tastes. I personally have found it just as easy to use whole books as to use the anthology, though, in a HOME or tutoring setting.

 

I personally haven't had a use for Elson, when I think the above do what I want to do better.

[Hunter]

These are my notes for combining Alpha Phonics, Wiley McGuffey, Wiley McGuffey Speller, and Harvey's Grammar.

 

McGuffey’s Primer

Alpha-Phonics 1-28

Don Potter Handwriting

 First Reader

Alpha-Phonics 29-39

Don Potter Handwriting

Second Reader

Alpha-Phonics 40-100

Don Potter Handwriting

McGuffey Third Reade

Alpha-Phonics 101-128

Harvey’s Elem 1-5

4^th Reader pp.25-125

McGuffey Speller 1-35

Harvey’s Elem 6-19

4^th Reader pp.126-255

McG Speller 36-58

Harvey’s Elem 20-35

5^th Reader pp. 34-194

McG Speller 59-115,

Harvey Elem 36-48,

5^th Reader pp. 195-352

McG Speller 116-171

Harvey’s Elem 49-76

6^th Reader pp. 63-266

McG Speller 172-210

Harvey Elem 77-100

6^th Reader pp. 266-464

McG Speller 211-248

Harvey Elem 101-134

Edited August 11, 2016 by Hunter

[vaquitita]

If someone is starting from scratch and not invested in anything, Blumenfeld's free Alpha Phonics is very unlikely to fail.

http://blumenfeld.campconstitution.net/.

 

Hoenshel's chart work and Wiley McGuffey are another can't fail.

 

O-G later as spelling IF and only IF mom has time can improve spelling in SOME kids. It is not a hill to die on. I don't recommend starting with it. O-G is fascinating to US because we function at a Rhetoric level. What fascinates us seldom is the best method for teaching grammar stage students.

 

I learned to read at 4 by memorizing Seuss's Go Dog Go. Then I figured out some very basic phonics that I applied to new words. I was living in a semi-tropic country that was in the middle of riots. We had very limited access to TV and my parents were...well...busy at the time :lol: and I was BORED out of my mind. But my point is that sight words first and phonics/spelling later does work for some kids.

 

When my oldest wasn't learning to read with the school's phonics only and first approach, I traced some pictures out of a Teenage Mutant Ninja coloring book and wrote him a sight word book and used that to teach him how to read. That was how I learned to read and it was all I knew to do at the time. In just a few months he was reading and understanding the school phonics when he had some pegs to hang those lessons on.

Hmm. What you say fits my own feelings that I like to just get them reading first and do spelling later. I have really liked RLTL, I find it quick and easy, and I do feel like it's helping both my oldest and my slower learner. As in, actual improvement in the spelling in their personal writing. I think for my 6yo I will wait on it for now, just let him read, and add in spelling when he's 9.

 

Not sure where that leaves me for my youngest. We are not kjv people. We do a mix of modern and older books. So far I find the barefoot ragamuffin stuff to be a good fit for us, the right blend of old and new. Though admittedly we haven't used that much of it yet. We did use RLTL and HLTL, Wayfarers history book lists but not the actual schedule, and I have ELTL sitting on my shelf to start in two weeks. Which may be why I'm trying to make RLTL work for teaching reading. :) though I'm beginning to think I am not at all a classical homeschooler. More a mix of CM and real life.

 

When I used Treadwell or bob books to teach my kids to read, it was not as a sight word method. I just taught the phonics as they came up in the books. I probably did more sight words with my oldest than my third kid, just because I had more experience and more phonics explanations ready. Bob books were enough for my motivated third child, but idk if they are for my youngest. I suppose after bob books, I could go to the pathways readers, and still save RLTL for later spelling lessons. Or I might be able to get my Treadwell readers back from our charter school. Really, teaching them using books is my preference and I like a set of readers for this because then the reading level is consistent.

Edited August 11, 2016 by vaquitita

[Kat w]

Yea Hunter. I knew they were....I was thinking it was the Treadwell's in rtlt . I hadn't looked at the reading portion of the book for awhile .

Only elsons I have is in the rtlt book.

 

I need separate books.

Vaquitita remember!!! Those McGuffey's are mine!! ;-0

Tee hee.

Wanna chat later...have my lil guy to do phonics with :/

:) ttyall later :)

 

Very engaging conversations with you 2 :)

 

*dancing off cuz I'm gettin a complet set of original McGuffey's*

;)

[Kat w]

Kat, I'm not sure what you think I said was KJV. I don't think any KJV text is quoted in the Mott Media readers, if that is what you meant. I said they prepared for KJV reading and pre-1840 literature better than newer sets.

 

A lot of people call pre-1840 literature hard. My youngest used to listen to KJV audio tapes at least an hour a day while laying on the floor coloring Bible story pictures. He became bilingual to older and newer English. He truly didn't understand why people thought books were "hard" that really were just a different dialect that he was fully fluent in.

 

Dryden's translations of Greek and Latin books, Pilgrim's Progress, and even Shakespeare were easy reading for him. He got seriously annoyed with book groups that wanted to use what he considered inferior translations to Dryden because they found his translations hard. He didn't even know what they meant.

 

I cannot recommend any of these sets over the others. They all have their uses. It all depends on what your lifestyle and worldview is. I basically have no worldview anymore, but I can identify which books might be best for people with worldviews the same or similar to groups I have lived among. And once you make a choice, I can help you fill in any gaps that arise that you don't know how to fill.

Hunter I'm sorry, I just saw this post. ..I'm doing phonics with my lil guys, I'm gonna come back later and read all this and chat :)

 

I did skim the part about kjv...and yea, I did misunderstand. Gotchya.

 

Be back later :)

 

BTW, I LOVE your schedule of teaching. I read the link last nite. I sorta do it that way, but I'm going to incorporate more of how you have it listed :)

[vaquitita]

If someone is starting from scratch and not invested in anything, Blumenfeld's free Alpha Phonics is very unlikely to fail.

http://blumenfeld.campconstitution.net/.

 

Hoenshel's chart work and Wiley McGuffey are another can't fail.

 

I don't feel like McGuffey really fits us. When I was looking at one book phonics programs before, somehow I skipped over alpha phonics. Maybe because my library doesn't have it. It looks pretty good. Nice big type, uncluttered pages. I wish used copies were a little cheaper. :) I am seeing a used copy that comes with readers for $20. I'm tempted to get it. :)

[Hunter]

Just before Sam died it became very important to him that a $9.99 edition of his revised book be put on the market. God bless that man and may he rest in peace.

 

Phonics for Success is a nice smaller edition, instead of the bulky spiral bound of Alpha-Phonics. This is the one I use.

https://www.amazon.com/Phonics-Success-Samuel-L-Blumenfeld/dp/1495144216

 

 

And when buying hardcopy of AP, make sure you are getting the REVISED edition not the original italic version!

 

I would print the free copy before buying a spiral bound version.

 

Do not miss the arithmetic section in Sam's How to Tutor. It is the perfect supplement to Ray's arithmetic. It is also free on the website. http://blumenfeld.campconstitution.net/Tutor.htm

[Hunter]

I just want to be clear that I am not advocating any particular version of the Bible. There are just certain versions that mix better with certain types of instruction.

 

The NIrV makes awesome awesome copywork if you are currently hyper focused on teaching punctuation. It is VERY consistent with the punctuation, to the point of maybe not an accurate translation to ensure that simple standard modern grammar and punctuation were used.

 

Part of my boys' childhood was KJV and Scottish Psalter only, but..well...other parts of their childhood were a whole lot different. :lol:

Edited August 11, 2016 by Hunter

[vaquitita]

The one in looking at is the revised edition and comes with the new version of the readers. But you think the smaller print phonics for success is better? I can't find any info on the size, is it easy to hold open? Easy for a young child to read from? If I buy that version, I could buy the readers separately, though it would cost a little more having to pay separate shipping. I could print out the free version and get it spiral bound. Not sure that would be better than just buying the revised alpha phonics book.

[vaquitita]

Even though I like and use some old books, we just aren't that hard core old school. I like the looks of Ray's and strayer Upton, but math u see works better for us. Ditto with Treadwell and pathway readers rather than McGuffey. What I'm seeing of alpha phonics I like, and it looks like it 'fits' with what else we use? It looks nice and simple to use, which I like. And frankly I need to spend less time obsessing over phonics and more time figuring out what to do with grammar and writing with my older kids :D

 

I still haven't figured that one out. I have high hopes for ELTL, but I am running into problems. I want to use it older than suggested, based on the grammar, but then the copy work is so short in level 1. Either it will work out because I'll make that the time for the switch to cursive, so shorter copywork is fine, or I'll start it earlier but stretch it out by doing it less than three times a week. But that's a whole nother can of worms :)

Edited August 11, 2016 by vaquitita

[Hunter]

The one in looking at is the revised edition and comes with the new version of the readers. But you think the smaller print phonics for success is better? I can't find any info on the size, is it easy to hold open? Easy for a young child to read from? If I buy that version, I could buy the readers separately, though it would cost a little more having to pay separate shipping. I could print out the free version and get it spiral bound. Not sure that would be better than just buying the revised alpha phonics book.

 

I prefer smaller bound books to larger spiral, but that is ME. 

 

I use the reader anthology. It is exactly the same size as the main book.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1481169556/ref=pd_cp_0_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=10CMNK7JV34NDEFY6QQE

 

Both books are 6x9 inches.

 

I'm not tutoring, but when I am, both the students and I are pretty mobile. 6x9 fits in backpacks better.

[vaquitita]

Sheesh I'm right back to driving myself crazy by obsessing over how I'm going to teach reading two years from now :D

 

I really have to stop thinking about this. Not buy anything. I will get rid the stuff that didn't work for us, keep the few things that did, and worry about the rest later. I don't need a set in stone plan now to get rid of stuff that didn't work for me.

[Hunter]

Sheesh I'm right back to driving myself crazy by obsessing over how I'm going to teach reading two years from now :D

 

I really have to stop thinking about this. Not buy anything. I will get rid the stuff that didn't work for us, keep the few things that did, and worry about the rest later. I don't need a set in stone plan now to get rid of stuff that didn't work for me.

 

That's what I did when I had to get rid of a lot fast. If I didn't think I wanted to use it again and I didn't need it now, it got tossed or rehomed and I decided to wait to figure out what could wait.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Hunter

[Kat w]

Sheesh I'm right back to driving myself crazy by obsessing over how I'm going to teach reading two years from now :D

 

I really have to stop thinking about this. Not buy anything. I will get rid the stuff that didn't work for us, keep the few things that did, and worry about the rest later. I don't need a set in stone plan now to get rid of stuff that didn't work for me.

McGuffey's are mine!! Lol.

I'm battling a migrane. Fractions with my APD child got me today .

 

I so enjoy chattin with you , I hate I'm missing this thread today...gotta get rid of this before it blows wide open and I start getting sick from it.

 

Vaquitita , hubby gonna get with you in the morning and do the 'paperwork' on 'em.

I so...very excited :)

 

Migrane migrane go away...don't come again another day haha ;)

Oiy:/

[vaquitita]

Katw- will keep an eye out for your husbands email and hopefully get the books in the mail this weekend. :)

[Kat w]

Awesome. Thank you so much. I'm soooo excited :)

 

Nite :) my migrane bootie gonna go put this fraction 'fun' haha...day to bed :)

[Hunter]

I have a migraine, today. I had to get up at 4 in the morning to take some Ibuprofen. I couldn't lay back down, even if I could have slept, because of the ulcers in my esophagus. My whole day is shot now. I finished my Ray's scope and sequence though and fixed the main scope and sequence to match exactly. So, I'm happy, even though my day is shot.

[Hunter]

I have the McGuffey Speller in hardcopy right now, but not the readers. I do have the entire Dollar Homeschool Ebook set including the alternate readers. There is a supplementary reader for readers 2-5.

http://www.dollarhomeschool.com/readersandgrammar/

[Guest]

This thread was started at the same time as the "I like vintage stuff" thread...I can't find that one, but it fits here too...

 

I just realized that the reason vintage 3 r's appeal to *me* so much, is that they make me feel confident that I __can__ homeschool, very capably and well, even if something crazy terrible happened. Like a flood or fire or something ruined all our books.

 

So yeah we are all over BA and fun, wonderful things like that. But I also feel compelled to be well-acquainted with McGuffey, Serl, Rays, etc. Just in case.

 

Aside from just being appealing, in general, they are comforting.

[vaquitita]

I hope you both feel better soon. Migraines are no fun. :(

 

I told myself not to look at your newest version of the rainbow curriculum, but I looked anyway. Lol. I always love the idea of teaching my kids to read and then having them read through a list of books, but some how it hasn't worked for me yet. I ran in to this list recently, so I've been thinking about it again. I think it's posts 5&8. http://www.homeschoolreviews.com/forums/1/thread.aspx?id=74337 (I like how she used some history books that AO uses in elementary in middle school. I like a lot of AO books, but find they are scheduled way too early for us. I considered just using it several years behind, but I find there history sequence odd. Three years on the Middle Ages?)

 

Maybe just cause I have four kids close in age, and I am going to be reading to the younger ones; and the older ones always want to listen too. My oldest is not an independent kid either. So doing it all together has just worked best so far. But I do see a day coming when separating everyone will work better. This year we will be halfway. I'm going to read SOTW 2 to everyone, and they're going to read everything else. It has been nice to do stuff together, especially last year when we covered bible history/ancients, but for the other time periods the problem is instead of picking out the best books for kids to read I'm having to find enough books for a certain time period for each kids reading level. As I have more school age kids, and the age spread among those grows greater (it's one thing to teach two kids two years apart and another to teach three kids five years apart), I see needing a change. I wish I could just find the perfect book list and follow someone else's plan, but I'm never happy with them. :D I found one with similar goals to what I want, but too much reliance on textbooks. And of course there are so many good books out there! I don't want to waste time on textbooks. Lol. And I'm not feeling confident enough to write my own. I guess I feel like if I did, I need to write the whole thing thru high school. I can tell what my kids need now, but since I haven't taught all the way thru yet I have no idea what I want or where I'm headed for those later years. :) the other struggle is giving up chronological history. At this point, I think it's not necessary for elementary and would just save that for high school, but I have trouble giving up a cycle I've started. The kids have liked SOTW, how can we not finish it? :D

[Guest]

vaquitita you might like layers of learning. Not to add something else for you to look at.

 

But the booklists at the beginning of each unit have suggestions for different ages for each topic PLUS keywords to search online or at the library. And it's great for different levels doing things together.

 

And you just do as little of extras (books, projects) as you want. If you don't do anything extra (we havn't) it's like a really well-organized, more detailed what your X___ grader Needs to know.

 

Mind you we've only done 2 units. I have read through all of years 1 and 3 though.

 

I goes really really well with traditional/CM/wtm language arts. traditional being like CTGE or R&S. The one room school house vibe iykwim.

[vaquitita]

I found one with similar goals to what I want, but too much reliance on textbooks.

Ok, this is inaccurate. The one I'm looking at uses those what your 3rd grader needs to know books as a basis. I had written that off as a bad thing :) but I got the kindergarten book from the library and it's not bad. It encourages lots of reading aloud of good books, narrating, and while I'd prefer to read these from separate picture books, the included lit is very similar to many good book lists: mother goose, Stevenson, Aesop, classic folk tales. Now that I'm looking closer even SOTW is included (in grades 6-8). The curriculum claims to be CM inspired, I hadn't noticed that before. I might be able to work with this! There are suggestions/options for various programs/workbooks that I don't use or am unfamiliar with. MCP phonics. Sequential spelling. MCP math. Teaching textbooks math. But those would be easy enough to sub in for what we are using.

 

:D I have strayed far from the original post. :D

Edited August 12, 2016 by vaquitita

[vaquitita]

vaquitita you might like layers of learning. Not to add something else for you to look at.

 

But the booklists at the beginning of each unit have suggestions for different ages for each topic PLUS keywords to search online or at the library. And it's great for different levels doing things together.

 

... It goes really really well with traditional/CM/wtm language arts. traditional being like CTGE or R&S. The one room school house vibe iykwim.

You know I think I downloaded the first unit of LoL some time back. I need to go look at it again.

Sometimes I feel like I should change what we're doing this year, but with school starting in a week I'm too scared. :D

 

I like the one room school house vibe, but my kids haven't. mostly they complain about the crowded pages and too much writing. Sometimes I think I need to go that route anyway for my own sanity and they will learn to deal with it. But I'm trying ELTL first. If that doesn't work for us, then CTGE it is. :)

 

Eta: after saying this, I'm thinking about my daughter... She requires a lot of repetition. She now reads at grade level (yay!) but her spelling is atrocious (shawt=shout. Gofule=joyfully). Phonics rules are not her thing, she doesn't remember/apply them. She just needs to see something over and over and over. Copywork might be great for her, seeing and writing the words over and over, but I'm thinking she's going to need more of it than what ELTL 1 has. I may pull out CTGE 1 again and have her finish it, at half page a day. I could make up more Copywork for her myself, but that's more work :)

Edited August 12, 2016 by vaquitita

[Hunter]

okbud, it wasn't flood or fire, but roaches that got my books. :lol:

 

vanquitita, that is a good list!

 

My list is a bit weird, unless someone needs what I need. I needed a list of free PD books that have also been professionally republished with modern copyrights and ISBN #'s. The list is meant to pass inspection by a school board while still being nothing but free.

 

I needed the books to be as non controversial as possible, and also familiar and popular and widely available.

 

I needed it to be more Robinson than CM. Slow reads over time can be trickier when living in deprivation and chaos. I wanted the books to be acquired, read, and discarded, except for a few core texts that mom could almost memorize and teach in her sleep.

 

I see poverty stricken and overwhelmed families drawn to certain curricula, and see the parts of those curricula that trip them up. I tried to find a way around those issues.

 

I didn't pick my favorite books. I picked the books that I thought would be easiest for mom to get. And then tried to group them as mini unit studies based on the Handbook of Nature Study, a couple vintage geographies, and chronological history for the later grades. The history for the early years isn't chronological but includes a yearly anthology, a British history book, and an American history book. Geography is often a stronger theme than history.

 

My list only makes sense for people that first and foremost want a list of PD books that have been republished in profession hardcopy. It is all about easy to get in multiple formats, so that WHATEVER life sends your way, you can stay on track.

 

And a member here encouraged me to go very political in the last 2 years. I needed to set the whole curriculum up to prepare for the last 2 years. In earlier editions I went much easier on the readers, but I realized that the 6th reader really prepared for the political books and I ramped things up.

 

This list is inspired by adult homeless students, and also a few homeless kids I have had the privileged of supplying books to and being able to discuss with them what they were able and not able to accomplish while living out of backpack and having to mostly teach themselves. This list makes a lot more sense to people in the trenches than mainstreamers.

 

I need to stop changing it and let it be. But I really do think the work I have put into it the past couple weeks made it better. Mostly just the primary history, math, and art changed. Long Ago People, a book about early London, is not in hardcopy, but I really wanted to add that book back in. I think it is important. And I wanted to have a consistent Anthology/British/American schedule. YC finally republished Peeps at Ancient Egypt and I added that back after pulling it.

 

I want to be done shifting. Done, done, done. And then maybe write yearly schedules or write some commentary or both.

[Hunter]

I use LoL as an ebook encyclopedia. I am hoping year 4 is published soon and of the same quality as the earlier years. LoL makes a great back up to an otherwise all vintage curriculum. It has lots of pictures, projects, and modern booklists. I use the pictures more than anything else.

 

I recently rebought a used copy of the Columbia Encyclopedia 6th edition 2000 for something as a modern resource. I managed to snag a copy for $4.95 and $3.99 shipping. I think this is the 4th copy in the past 10 years. :lol: Life is an adventure!

[Hunter]

Oh, and I removed the Don Potter Ayres list and am letting McGuffey be enough. Sometimes the good distracts from the excellent and needs to go. Less is so often more.

[vaquitita]

I like the Robinson approach to history/science/lit. :) I'm not scheduling my kids books this year. I'm handing them the stack and they can slow read or not as they like. If they want to read one chapter from multiple books, ok. If they want to devour one book at a time, ok. If they read them chronologically or not, whatever. My very complicated SOTW schedule is this: read one chapter a week. :D

 

Yeah, what you need for adult homeless students is different than what I need with a bunch of young kids. :)

Edited August 12, 2016 by vaquitita

[Hunter]

The slow reads, CM style, just didn't work for the adults or kids here. It bombed!

[vaquitita]

My kids don't mind slow reading, but it's just more work to schedule than I want to deal with right now.

 

Hunter, do you have any suggestions for spelling/writing for a kid who needs lots of repetition? See below...

 

Eta: after saying this, I'm thinking about my daughter... She requires a lot of repetition. She now reads at grade level (3rd grade) (yay!) but her spelling is atrocious (shawt=shout. Gofule=joyfully). Phonics rules are not her thing, she doesn't remember/apply them. She just needs to see something over and over and over. Copywork might be great for her, seeing and writing the words over and over, but I'm thinking she's going to need more of it than what ELTL 1 has. I may pull out CTGE 1 again and have her finish it, at half page a day. I could make up more Copywork for her myself, but that's more work :)

Eta: more info

I have planned for her to do RLTL level 2 twice a week, ELTL 1 three times a week. That was it as far as writing anything. That's enough for my oldest (well he also does a written narration once a week). But I'm thinking she needs more than that. She will be nine this month and starting third grade, but looking at CtGE grade 1 (she did the first 60 pages last year) that is definitely where she is at spelling wise. But at the same time I don't want to overwhelm her. Insight into her: She LOVES MUS. She loves the repetition, the similar ness of every lesson. She loves how clearly things are taught. She loves mastering one thing before moving on. She hated Singapore math, how it kept switching topics, the lack of review.

Edited August 12, 2016 by vaquitita

[Guest]

I meant one-room schooly just because you're all there, mom is leading, but each student is doing whatever they separately need to do, with the common base of info the leader is doloing out.

I have a gifted third grader who can really fend for himself, and a spot-on first grader who really can't, and l.o.l. has been my attempt to not have every entity in our house going in their own disparate directions in ALL things.

Edited August 12, 2016 by OKBud

[Hunter]

Vaq, the students that "need" spelling the most are the ones least likely to improve with instruction. Spelling is never the hill to die on, because it is more certain you will die on that hill.

 

Some kids are clumsy and will never become gymnasts. Some kids are poor spellers. Period.

 

There is no magic formula I can give you all for spelling.

 

If the student has copied and completed all of Alpha-phonics and still cannot spell. I would review that, because maybe they did the lessons too early and were not developmentally ready. I'd have them copy their reader and the NIrV. I'd keep track of misspelled words and have them copy the word several times and talk about any rules and have them maybe copy some similar words from AP and the McGuffey speller.

 

I personally wouldn't buy anything or teach anything else. Life is short. I'd rather eat chocolate.

[Hunter]

Vaq, do you have Beechick's the Three R's? The spelling advice in there is applicable to all grades.

[vaquitita]

Well this kid learned to read with AAR, so there was no writing involved at all. For the last half of second grade I did RLTL level one with her, and she did copywork of the elson primer used in that. Though she didn't finish that. Maybe I just need to give the combo we're using more time, rather than add CtGE. ELTL only has copywork for three days, maybe on the other days I'll have her finish the elson primer copywork. I should maybe look at RLTL and decide whether she's ready for level two, or perhaps go back and review the second half of level one first.

[vaquitita]

Vaq, do you have Beechick's the Three R's? The spelling advice in there is applicable to all grades.

I did... I think I decided to get rid of it, but that pile is still sitting my garage. I'll go dig it out

[Kat w]

Vaquitita, I haven't forgot about ya. Had some not great news today about my grandbaby.

 

Well get on thst tomorrow. I'm chomping at the bit to get thses :)

Thank you again. I'm excited :)

[Kat w]

Vaq, the students that "need" spelling the most are the ones least likely to improve with instruction. Spelling is never the hill to die on, because it is more certain you will die on that hill.

 

Some kids are clumsy and will never become gymnasts. Some kids are poor spellers. Period.

 

There is no magic formula I can give you all for spelling.

 

If the student has copied and completed all of Alpha-phonics and still cannot spell. I would review that, because maybe they did the lessons too early and were not developmentally ready. I'd have them copy their reader and the NIrV. I'd keep track of misspelled words and have them copy the word several times and talk about any rules and have them maybe copy some similar words from AP and the McGuffey speller.

 

I personally wouldn't buy anything or teach anything else. Life is short. I'd rather eat chocolate.

I agree 100% and chocolate mmmmm haha :)

 

Great, now I want a McGuffey speller ;)

I didn't know there was one.

I'll look on eBay.

 

Hunters right . some kids are just poor spellers. Everybody's got sumpin haha :)

 

But working on it again that she's older a good idea.

Hey, we have spell check now ;)

 

Ruth Beechicks 3 R's. I'm gonna read through thst again too . I kep it close by to review every now and again.

 

Love thst book(s) . mine is the set of 3 separate books.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Kat w

[Kat w]

Vaquitita, have you tried wwe?

Writing with ease? It's a good program and it's the style of teaching you like (we like the same style ) a gentle cm approach of starting with narrations . the question and answers are scripted ( so mom knows exactly what to draw out of them).

It uses Beatrix Potter excerpts, Pinocchio, Alice in wonderland , little house , it's really good and produces good writers.

 

It's that sweet approach we like.

I think you'll like it. It can sometimes seem like...what good is this really doing? Then one day...boom. You have a great writer :).

I love it. I mention it BC you talked about not having writing. We do AAR and rtlt too. It fits right in with thst style of teaching.

It has copy work and the worksheets to do it too from the excerpts read aloud thst day.

I've started using that to now correct spelling . I didn't at first, wanted to focus on the writing part. Then like Hunter said. I started keeping a running list of words they get wrong.

It's totally open n go.

We need lots of repetition too. Lc's in a big way here. It 'speaks' to them.

 

I'm a big fan :)

Edited August 13, 2016 by Kat w

[Kat w]

okbud, it wasn't flood or fire, but roaches that got my books. :lol:

 

vanquitita, that is a good list!

 

My list is a bit weird, unless someone needs what I need. I needed a list of free PD books that have also been professionally republished with modern copyrights and ISBN #'s. The list is meant to pass inspection by a school board while still being nothing but free.

 

I needed the books to be as non controversial as possible, and also familiar and popular and widely available.

 

I needed it to be more Robinson than CM. Slow reads over time can be trickier when living in deprivation and chaos. I wanted the books to be acquired, read, and discarded, except for a few core texts that mom could almost memorize and teach in her sleep.

 

I see poverty stricken and overwhelmed families drawn to certain curricula, and see the parts of those curricula that trip them up. I tried to find a way around those issues.

 

I didn't pick my favorite books. I picked the books that I thought would be easiest for mom to get. And then tried to group them as mini unit studies based on the Handbook of Nature Study, a couple vintage geographies, and chronological history for the later grades. The history for the early years isn't chronological but includes a yearly anthology, a British history book, and an American history book. Geography is often a stronger theme than history.

 

My list only makes sense for people that first and foremost want a list of PD books that have been republished in profession hardcopy. It is all about easy to get in multiple formats, so that WHATEVER life sends your way, you can stay on track.

 

And a member here encouraged me to go very political in the last 2 years. I needed to set the whole curriculum up to prepare for the last 2 years. In earlier editions I went much easier on the readers, but I realized that the 6th reader really prepared for the political books and I ramped things up.

 

This list is inspired by adult homeless students, and also a few homeless kids I have had the privileged of supplying books to and being able to discuss with them what they were able and not able to accomplish while living out of backpack and having to mostly teach themselves. This list makes a lot more sense to people in the trenches than mainstreamers.

 

I need to stop changing it and let it be. But I really do think the work I have put into it the past couple weeks made it better. Mostly just the primary history, math, and art changed. Long Ago People, a book about early London, is not in hardcopy, but I really wanted to add that book back in. I think it is important. And I wanted to have a consistent Anthology/British/American schedule. YC finally republished Peeps at Ancient Egypt and I added that back after pulling it.

 

I want to be done shifting. Done, done, done. And then maybe write yearly schedules or write some commentary or both.

Warm fuzzies Hunter :).

We used to do work St the homeless shelters downtown. Took my big kids a good bit. The things these kids go through .

 

We adopted SN kids and TB is prevalent amoung the homeless and our pediatrician told us, DONT take them. So we quit. I've wanted to get back to it.

Just haven't yet.

That's so awesome you do that ;)

[Kat w]

I have a migraine, today. I had to get up at 4 in the morning to take some Ibuprofen. I couldn't lay back down, even if I could have slept, because of the ulcers in my esophagus. My whole day is shot now. I finished my Ray's scope and sequence though and fixed the main scope and sequence to match exactly. So, I'm happy, even though my day is shot.

Migranes are the worst. Glad youre feeling better :)

 

I want to look at rays arithmetic. It's been many years since I've looked at it.

[Hunter]

Kat, when my marriage imploded right as my youngest was starting his second year of college, I had no choice but to become homeless.

 

I have severe PTSD and carry a diagnosis of not expected to recover. I have fallen through the cracks of the medical and legal systems. There is a women's center entirely funded  by donations instead of government funds and health insurance that has filled the gaps over the years when I am in the city I'm in now. I've not always been here, and was also in another city while dealing with DV legal issues.

 

I have tutored and helped out in shelters, but also have had to access services at them. 

 

Sometimes doctors give really stupid advice about risks among the homeless and in shelters because they make assumptions about things that they know nothing about. My primary therapist/social worker is primarily employed at a day center, and was in a rush to end our meeting to comply with a health suggestion, and I was like, "Are you kidding me?!! You need a second opinion about that. Seeeeeriously!" She laughed. I'm the crazy one, but she decided years ago that she trusts some of my judgments over that of her peers.

 

Blanket statements about TB among the homeless don't reflect the prevalence among certain sub-populations. Some sub-populations are so heavily tested that I'll bet active cases are lower among that group than the general public. It is higher among people that sleep outdoors. Cities will vary, obviously. My point is that doctors say and think some really really REALLY stupid things about homeless people and the world they live in.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Hunter

[Hunter]

As for the McGuffey Speller, make sure you get the one that matches YOUR readers.

[Kat w]

Hunter, I am so very sorry to hear if your plight.

 

Ya know, I've noticed something with my own family (parents and extended) we are really all, mostly all, are basically one paycheck? Or life event away....from on the street (homeless) .

 

My dh, kids and I have always worked with the homeless and high risk kids, usually ones in the foster care system that wind up in 'bad kid homes' (most aren't bad kids).

 

We adopted a teen out of the foster care system that had been living under bridges and woods with his 3 younger siblings . his birthmom had fallen prey to the crack epidemic in America . he got the ready and dressed and TO SCHOOL every single day. All 4 of them, all while livin under bridges.

 

The cops caught up with them too many times and finally put him in a home and the lil ones were adopted out.

It was in that 'bad kids home' where we met him, worked with him, house parent s went to our church.

We fell in love with him and made him part if the family :)

( he later got 18 itis and bolted bck to the birth family, called 3 weeks later begging to come back, he had done too much by then. I had other kids to think of).

 

Anyway, I say all that to say, it always surprises me who and what people are termed with.

One of my kids greatest memories as kids was being at the soup kitchens, shelters at nite when it's cold gettin set up for a busy nite.

We even used to buy our own blankets and before dark go out and pass out blankets to those...we knew weren't going to one to the shelter.

Ya get to know people. Who comes, whose to proud to or just embarrassed.

 

We spent many hours doing various things like this. And now? All o my big kids are public servants.

They all say it's because of how they were raised and things they saw, people they met.

They ARE people. Society forgets that.

They are a vast number of vets, mom, and just good people fallen on hard times.

 

I know there are those who say...ih yada yada homeless this or that.

Those are the people who have spent ...ZERO! Time with them.

 

We got to know many of them. And today, some are over their hump in life.

 

There but through the grace of God go I....

 

Big hugs Hunter. So glad you do thst with the adults and kids there :)

Alot of the kids have learning disabilities noon ever catches.

 

The need to know they aren't the forgotten ones.

Warm fuzzies :)

Edited August 13, 2016 by Kat w

[Kat w]

Oh, and to the TB thing. I agree with you about general assumptions they've read in a doctor magazine lol.

We are in FL. Tho. Alot of our homeless population is sleeping outside BC of our weather....and my adopted lil ones had some respitory issues. From what I understand , that's common being born addicted .

Buy you're right, I have wondered over the years just how prevalent thst really is , but, with my.little guys situation... Even colds sent esp my one guy in a tailspin.

 

Those are the 2 little ones I'm homeschooling now.

Lots and lots of learning challenges.

[Kat w]

As for the McGuffey Speller, make sure you get the one that matches YOUR readers.

Oh...good point, I would have forgotten thst.

I'm having dh when he gets home today...get me vaquitita s readers...I am Sooo excited ! :)

 

I went to the dollar something link you put up. How sweet! I, as finances allow, am going to get rays arithmetic. My guys need more word practice focus and real life math focus.

2 birds, on Stone lol

Edited August 13, 2016 by Kat w

[Hunter]

Almost 100% of homeless women are domestic abuse victims. Almost 100% of homeless men have traumatic brain injury. If they didn't have it before they became homeless, they get it soon after.

 

My youngest had severe asthma. I know what it is like to have to protect little lungs.

 

It is cold up here in the north. We mostly had a mild winter last year, but there was one night in Boston where temperatures dropped to lows not experienced since the 1950's. Wind Chills were at -44 degrees. It was unimaginably cold. NYC and Boston lose people to exposure every winter. It is sad.

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Hunter