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Melissa in Australia

Your thoughts on this psychologist wanted

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No. That sounds awful, especially for traumatized kids.

 

And she's going to need to work with you and dad as much if not more than with the kids to heal their brokenness,.

 

How is that possible if you're locked out of sessions.

 

That seems more appropriate for an older schoolaged/teen kid than a toddler.

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Melissa, I haven't been on much at all. Are these kids young and new to you? Please PM me and let me know how your older kids are doing.

 

My life is not normal at all, but we are living peacefully and happily. My RAD almost never acts out anymore but is still within arms length at all times. I never dreamed we could live peacefully and happily with her. Still, I could never do this again. I admire you so much!

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I'm curious as to why she brought up the whole restraining thing. Do they have all out fits? Just seems like an odd thing to randomly bring up, but maybe it wasn't random.

 

No I don't think I'd go to her though. She sounds kinda nutters.

We were going to go to the psychologist most specifically for advice and treatment for harming animals. The one twin has only done this 5 times while in my care and only when he is extremely anxious / insecure because of a change in family structure. Like when Dh and some older kids went camping, or Dh went to Canada, or more recently when the twin's biological brother came for a holiday.

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Thank you so much everyone for all your advice and for agreeing with me.

 

The twins do not have violent rages where they are a risk to others. What I was after was someone to work with the twins, specifically twin 1 on harming animals. Something he only does when he is feeling insecure.

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Melissa, I haven't been on much at all. Are these kids young and new to you? Please PM me and let me know how your older kids are doing.

 

My life is not normal at all, but we are living peacefully and happily. My RAD almost never acts out anymore but is still within arms length at all times. I never dreamed we could live peacefully and happily with her. Still, I could never do this again. I admire you so much!

They are the same twins. Yes they are mostly happy little guys now, though they are still closely supervised at all times.

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I hope you find someone who is a good fit. :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: 

 

I agree with above, maybe someone on-line in the meantime?  To train you to help the boys in the interim?

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N.O.

 

I have a license in therapy (from another lifetime) -- and we were never even taught a semblance of such a "technique."

 

Think of how you'd handle a traumatized dog -- I love dogs, so please don't take offense -- and how you would speak softly and gently and smile kindly etc. etc. The kids need to learn to trust -- not to think that all adults are whack-jobs. I completely agree with DenisMomof4.

 

Have you talked to the adoption home? Do they have suggestions for therapy for the kids.

 

I have twins. My heart breaks to hear stories about people not treating their kids well. Heartbreaking.

 

Alley

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We were going to go to the psychologist most specifically for advice and treatment for harming animals. The one twin has only done this 5 times while in my care and only when he is extremely anxious / insecure because of a change in family structure. Like when Dh and some older kids went camping, or Dh went to Canada, or more recently when the twin's biological brother came for a holiday.

You may temember that my daughter first tried to kill our cat at age 3. I am an animal lover and an animal rescuer. My only peace of mind comes from keeeping her in sight at all times. I don't think we will ever know all the triggers our kids face. :( I always read that once they did kill an animal, they would want to do it again so I never take that chance.

 

That said, she is VERY hands on with the animal care. She us awesome at it. I also have a special needs adult living in the home and have numerous respite clients. Between all the rescued animals and the SN people, I truly believe she has developed a compassionate heart. There is hope.

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They are the same twins. Yes they are mostly happy little guys now, though they are still closely supervised at all times.

I guess I don't remember accurately because I thought they were older teens. I can only imagine how that technique would work with older teens!

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They are 5 years old.

 

We have lots of animals and twin1 in particular is actively involved in caring for some silky chooks ( always supervised ) we are working on the idea that instead of restricting contact with animals but rather interacting with them and taking care of them that he will develop an understanding of how to interact with animals appropriately. There is the down side that there are then animals around that can be hurt. Even with very close supervision there is always those few seconds where your attention is not on them.

 

We are working just on what seems logical and commomon sense to us as we don't seem to be able to get professional guidance on this.

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They are 5 years old.

 

We have lots of animals and twin1 in particular is actively involved in caring for some silky chooks ( always supervised ) we are working on the idea that instead of restricting contact with animals but rather interacting with them and taking care of them that he will develop an understanding of how to interact with animals appropriately. There is the down side that there are then animals around that can be hurt. Even with very close supervision there is always those few seconds where your attention is not on them.

 

We are working just on what seems logical and commomon sense to us as we don't seem to be able to get professional guidance on this.

 

sounds logical  to me - just very time demanding for you.

 

dudeling has asd - and  was petrified of dogs.  then my mother  got a very calm lap dog.  he would be inappropriate and run away.  what contact he had with her (the dog) went a long way to teaching him what was appropriate.   (because it was my mother's dog, I didn't have to run interference 24/7).  in the beginning- that did mean I was holding his hand and going through the motions of how to pet the dog.  and constantly repeating . ."gentle".   (she'd always sit next to my mom, so she was protected.)  he was two - three at the time.

what was really nice, was it translated to how he interacted with other children and especially babies.  before he really didn't have any sense of what was appropriate/inappropriate touch.

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I have heard of this as "holding therapy" BUT it is usually done by the primary care giver (this would be you or your dh I suppose) and it's not done to restrain but to hold an out of control child that runs into walls or otherwise would hurt him or herself.

 

The red flag here is that you are not doing the holding, it does not sound gentle and you are not in the room.

I would suggest finding someone who does play therapy. Didn't check how old your kids are but a clinician experienced with play therapy can address a lot of things.

As they get older, you may consider EMDR. It has had some very good results as well.

 

PS: EMDR: Eye Movement Desensitization & Reprocessing  https://anagomez.org/what-emdr-kids (I know she is in the US but maybe you can find someone in AUS)

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I live a long way from a big city so any specialised treatment that needs to be done very regularly is tricky. Though the way technology is advancing who knows how specialist tratment might be able to be delivered in 10 years time.

 

I wonder if EMDR is possible with a child with nystagmus

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They are 5 years old.

 

We have lots of animals and twin1 in particular is actively involved in caring for some silky chooks ( always supervised ) we are working on the idea that instead of restricting contact with animals but rather interacting with them and taking care of them that he will develop an understanding of how to interact with animals appropriately. There is the down side that there are then animals around that can be hurt. Even with very close supervision there is always those few seconds where your attention is not on them.

 

We are working just on what seems logical and commomon sense to us as we don't seem to be able to get professional guidance on this.

I have helped so many injured and sick animals. I truly believe that this, along with working in my home with special needs people, has truly seemed to help my daughter develop compassion. I do believe she cares about the animals and people.

 

She is within arms length at all times. I never allow her the opportunity to help a defenseless animal. I have a blind dog and a dog who was paralyzed. She is no longer paraluzed but is weak and has pain in her back which we are still treating. I just won't take a chance. I don't think she would tey to hurt the animals again, but I won't rusk it. She WOULD vandalize the home.

 

It js a lot of work, but again, I never believed we would have gotten as far as we gave. I was never able to get her into therapy so I did all my research and implemented my own strategies. She was severe RAD, but we honestly only have issues once or twice per year and they aren't even big issues anymore.

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I have heard of this as "holding therapy" BUT it is usually done by the primary care giver (this would be you or your dh I suppose) and it's not done to restrain but to hold an out of control child that runs into walls or otherwise would hurt him or herself.

 

The red flag here is that you are not doing the holding, it does not sound gentle and you are not in the room.

I would suggest finding someone who does play therapy. Didn't check how old your kids are but a clinician experienced with play therapy can address a lot of things.

As they get older, you may consider EMDR. It has had some very good results as well.

 

PS: EMDR: Eye Movement Desensitization & Reprocessing https://anagomez.org/what-emdr-kids (I know she is in the US but maybe you can find someone in AUS)

EMDR would be fantastic for a traumatized kid, but play therapy has never been recommended by the leading therapists in this field. I am assuming at 5 and traumatized, there are likely attachment issues going on.

 

Melissa, how do you feel about converting them back to their infancy? Rock and bottle feed (or lollipops if the infancy thing is strange for you) and cuddle as long as possible. It will be more difficult wuth twins, but this is what first started to make real change in my dd.

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I was at a great training this weekend and they talked about emotional age. Take the number of years the child has been with you, minis the number of years it was still chaos, and that gives you their lowest emotional age when things get tough. Remembering that helps but it can be hard to think of a 13 year old as really only 2-3 emotionally when things get rough.

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No, Nada, Nope, Never.   It would only serve to traumatize them further.  Run, as fast as you can the other way and be thankful she was so upfront in her 'methods'. 

 

:grouphug:

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I was at a great training this weekend and they talked about emotional age. Take the number of years the child has been with you, minis the number of years it was still chaos, and that gives you their lowest emotional age when things get tough. Remembering that helps but it can be hard to think of a 13 year old as really only 2-3 emotionally when things get rough.

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Oops. I also read that a kids stops developing at the age they were traumatized, meaning they are stuck emotionally at that age. Have you heard of this? I don't know how infant abuse or neglect would be considered...

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We have done and continue to do rocking since we got them. It was recommended by the placement agency.

They are currently functioning at just over 3 years old in all areas of development

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No. No. No. No. No. 

 

Never. Never. Never.

 

If this were my own biological child, I'd feel somewhat within my rights in physically restraining them for a reasonable (short -- few minutes) period of time at that age for some sort of behavioral chat/calming/whatever.

 

In any other circumstance, I think physical restraint is a terrible idea unless it is for a very short period of time in an emergency situation. (I.e., hold child back from throwing themselves off a bridge . . . or hold child down for the EMT to insert a catheter . . . or hold child still while waiting to be evaluated for a spinal injury . . . ) So, no, I would not allow this whatsoever absolutely never. No.

 

I'm sorry, but that person sounds like a dangerous person. Run, don't walk.

 

And, I would never, ever, ever let any young child of mine (or in my custody) be in a therapeutic/medical/whatever relationship that I was not allowed to witness 100% of what was going on. And CERTAINLY not if that treatment involves restraint! Good God, no!

 

 

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Oops. I also read that a kids stops developing at the age they were traumatized, meaning they are stuck emotionally at that age. Have you heard of this? I don't know how infant abuse or neglect would be considered...

No, they didn't say kids were always stick there, just that they use that as a guideline for where the kids tend to end up emotionally when under stress.

 

For example, my friend is moving. Her 20 year old son came at 3 1/2 and had 2-3 more years with lota of struggles at her house. So you take 20-3 (how old he was when he came), minus another 3 for years of struggles and you get 14. During this period of stress he is much like a 12-14 year old emotionally. On less stressful days he does better.

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Oh! I have not read this before but find it so helpful!!!

 

I stopped reading RAD related stuff years ago. Every now and then I will look into something, but it is almost a trauma trigger for me to. :(

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Oh! I have not read this before but find it so helpful!!!

 

I stopped reading RAD related stuff years ago. Every now and then I will look into something, but it is almost a trauma trigger for me to. :(

Our conference also discussed secondary trauma for the parents. It is real, very real.

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So I spoke to former case manager and she said that the rule is that traumatised children should never be touched by a therapist and NEVER be restrained...

 

 

I also spoke to the person who recommended this psychologist. They work for intervention services ( for children at risk, family help before the child is removed). They had no idea what this psychologist was/ is doing and will not be referring any more children to her. They are pleased that I went there and found out this information as they would possibly not known and other children may / will have been traumatised.

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This reminds me - I used to volunteer with kids in a residential treatment home.  I was told that we were never allowed to touch the children, not even to pat their shoulder kindly, because their experiences have taught them strange things about human touch.  Even a kind touch can be received as an assault by an abused child.  Using one's body to restrain such a child is so many degrees beyond that.  Yikes.

 

I'm glad you reported this person.  Hopefully she gets some training before she has a chance to use her "technique" on any more kids.

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It sounds like this therapist treats all children alike and does not work with the parents. You need a therapist who sees your children as individuals who need therapy tailored to their needs, not a standard program. And the therapist should mostly train you in how to help the children with attachment and trauma. You should be completely involved. If anyone restrains your child, it should be you.

 

I disagree with those who see holding therapy as some sort of horrible, abusive thing. Different children experience it differently, and some are helped tremendously. I held my child in a restraining way, and it helped her feel so much more secure. I think what she took away from it was that she had a strong mom who would never abandon her or let her get lost from me in any way. It helped her know that, instead of pretending to be happy to please me, she could let all her anger out and I would just keep talking to her and singing to her and loving her. Once I started holding her, a casual acquaintance commented on how happy she was becoming. And my child started handling her dis-regulation by throwing herself into my arms when she felt a meltdown coming. Now, many years later, my child is happy, well-attached, full of creativity and joy. Holding did not break her spirit. It freed her spirit!

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It sounds like this therapist treats all children alike and does not work with the parents. You need a therapist who sees your children as individuals who need therapy tailored to their needs, not a standard program. And the therapist should mostly train you in how to help the children with attachment and trauma. You should be completely involved. If anyone restrains your child, it should be you.

 

I disagree with those who see holding therapy as some sort of horrible, abusive thing. Different children experience it differently, and some are helped tremendously. I held my child in a restraining way, and it helped her feel so much more secure. I think what she took away from it was that she had a strong mom who would never abandon her or let her get lost from me in any way. It helped her know that, instead of pretending to be happy to please me, she could let all her anger out and I would just keep talking to her and singing to her and loving her. Once I started holding her, a casual acquaintance commented on how happy she was becoming. And my child started handling her dis-regulation by throwing herself into my arms when she felt a meltdown coming. Now, many years later, my child is happy, well-attached, full of creativity and joy. Holding did not break her spirit. It freed her spirit!

 

 

I don't have experience with this sort of thing, but I have heard from many foster parents who had exactly this experience.  I think it's perfectly acceptable for you to hold a raging child in a safe position, and even good in the circumstances that they are out of control.   But her doing it...  Seems off to me.

 

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