Thinking of Switching to Rod and Staff from Shurley Grammar

[Kevin Rhoads]

My version of Well Trained Mind says that if you're thinking of switching to Rod and Staff in the 7th or 8th grade, you should "start with the 5th grade book, 'Progressing with Courage'" (p. 343 of Well Trained Mind).  However, "Progressing with Courage" is the 6th grade book.  So can anyone tell me which it is?  If I switch my 8th grader from Shurley grammar, should we start with the 5th grade book ("Following the Plan") or the 6th grade book ("Progressing with Courage")?  I'm hoping for 6th grade, but I don't want her to miss out on anything.

 

Also, can anyone tell me if they'd prefer Rod and Staff or MCT (which I believe stands for Michael Clay Thompson).  Does MCT have a comparable grammar to Rod and Staff?  If so, which is better?

 

Thanks.

[Ellie]

If your dc has had pretty significant grammar and composition instruction, I don't think you need to go back to Progressing With Courage. The writing picks up significantly in the previous boo, Building Securely. Have you seen the scope and sequence? That might help you decide. You can request it from the publisher by calling (606) 522-4348.

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

MCT is a creatively written book that covers the eight parts of speech, clauses, phrases and types of sentences. It then goes into a four part analysis of sentence parsing and dovetails nicely with Shurley and their sentence parsing, but it breaks it down more than Shurley does. However, MCT grammar lacks some of the mechanics such as punctuation, proofreading symbols, and it does not do any sort of diagramming. Practice is minimal and basically consists of sentence parsing. It does go into more detail with the writing book and is synergistic. I like MCT, but I keep finding I have to supplement some missing things, and it's pricey for that. If those missing elements are important to you, Rod and Staff (though I have not used it) goes through the mechanics of grammar and parts of speech in a systematic way with lots of practice and diagramming, and I am told it is very thorough. It includes writing as well.

 

Fwiw, we started with Shurley, but we ultimately found there wasn't the retention and application we are desiring. We switched to MCT for the deeper analysis, but, as I said, we are supplementing. I don't think we will follow this path with our second child.

 

Another thought: You might look at Warriner's complete course since your children are older. It is very thorough, and inexpensive and complete. It also includes diagramming.

[Kevin Rhoads]

If your dc has had pretty significant grammar and composition instruction, I don't think you need to go back to Progressing With Courage. The writing picks up significantly in the previous boo, Building Securely. Have you seen the scope and sequence? That might help you decide. You can request it from the publisher by calling (606) 522-4348.

Thank you.  I'm looking at the scope and sequence, and I called them up.  They go in a spiral, like Saxon Math.  So, it's hard to tell the difference between grades.  

 

So, you think we'd probably be OK starting out at the 7th grade level ("Building Securely")?

[LinRTX]

When I started with Rod and Staff, I started in the 6th grade book. I never felt we missed anything. The book is very thorough. My daughter had done some Shirley (not an entire level) and the first level of the on-line KISS grammar program (free).

 

If you can get your hands on a copy to look at, that would be good. I really feel you could start in the 6th grade level.

 

Linda

[Homeschoolmom3]

We were big Shurley fans here but wanted more "regular" diagramming for middle school. We did Shurley through 7 and then switched to rod and staff in 7th grade and started in the 6th grade one progressing with courage and it was almost all review (granted he does take Latin and it coincides nicely) so if they are strong in their grammar 7th grade might be better? Hth

[2_girls_mommy]

FWIW, my 7th grader, who has always been in R&S from the beginning is still only halfway through the 5th grade book, and I am not worried about it at all.  In our case, we don't aim to finish a book a year anymore.  We do grammar 3 times a week or so and get plenty of writing across our curriculum on top of the R&S assignments and grammar from Latin which is daily for us. I don't feel the 5th grade book is super behind for a 7th grader honestly. But I also don't think starting with the 6th grade (having gone through these books with my odd) would be bad either.  They all start over each year with parts of speech and just go deeper into each one.  We may at some point just start a new year with the current grade level or skip a book ourselves.

 

My odd is doing the 8th grade for her 9th grade grammar this year.

[Ellie]

Thank you.  I'm looking at the scope and sequence, and I called them up.  They go in a spiral, like Saxon Math.  So, it's hard to tell the difference between grades.  

 

So, you think we'd probably be OK starting out at the 7th grade level ("Building Securely")?

 

It won't hurt to try it out. :-) If it's too difficult, drop down one.

 

The biggest challenge might be the fact that there is no workbook; the children have to write everything on actual paper. That's a good thing, IMHO, but it might still be a challenge.

 

And FTR, Saxon is not spiral; it is incremental. :-)