daisylynn Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I'm back here...again. I revisit switching from MM every. single year. I just don't think MM is working for us anymore. My kids (rising 7th and 5th) hate it. They are decent in math but dread doing it. I only make them do half of the problems unless they need more practice. But I think it's just boring and too much. So, I'm looking to switch. For real this time (I say it every year and end up just sticking with MM.) My dd is a rising 7th grader but somehow we are still on 6A in MM. I'm not sure how we "fell behind". I have a rising 4th and rising 5th, but they are both doing 5A in MM right now. I thought of MUS, but wonder if it isn't meaty enough for them? I thought of Singapore, but that being teacher intensive scares me a little :P I saw Math in Focus mentioned several times, but I'm not even really sure what that is. Here are some things I'd like in a curriculum: 1-Mastery 2-Interesting/engaging workbook (MM is just so boring to them) 3-Not too teacher intensive 4-A good, solid program (I don't want to compromise that just because we all want to switch from MM) 5-Colorful workbook would be great, but not an absolute necessity. 6-A program that they can take a placement test for would be great. I would rather place them where they need to be as opposed to just sticking them in the grade they are in. Also, I have looked at the Singapore and Math in Focus sites and can't figure out how to even order those. Would I need a teacher book and 1 student book for every level per child? Are there placement tests for those? Thank you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I think of the options you are looking at Math in Focus would probably be your best bet. It is Mastery based, the textbook is colorful, most find it pretty engaging, most of the explanations are written to the student (but the TM provides nice support when you need it and some great suggestions when a child struggles or needs more challenge), is based on Singapore math which is considered a VERY solid math program, and there are placement tests. You can order the books used and in nearly new condition from Amazon usually. Sometimes you need to order the workbook new from Rainbow Resources since it isn't always available from Amazon. Linked below is the Rainbow Resource explanation of Math In Focus and Singapore Primary Mathematics, which are both based off of the Singapore math system. http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?subject=Mathematics/10&category=Math+in+Focus%3A+The+Singapore+Approach/9221 What may get a bit confusing is all the material that is used with the Singapore systems. Instead of like MM in which nearly everything is self contained into one thing, this system has A semester and B semester for each grade level and several resources to pull from including books/workbook/etc. for EACH semester. It can get pricey, which is why I suggested buying what you can used. I got one text for roughly $5, and it arrived in mint condition. Math In Focus is, in my opinion, easier to implement than SPM, especially for someone who has never used the program. There are placement tests at Rainbow Resources. I linked the 5th grade level placement test below, which also has the resources available (again you can frequently get many of these much cheaper used but like new on Amazon). http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?subject=Mathematics/10&category=Math+in+Focus+Grade+5/9220 My suggestion, if you decide to go with MiF, is to give the placement tests to each of your kids, then whatever grade your students place into, just buy the A (first semester) Textbook/workbook/Teacher's manual and see if the program fits with what you are seeking. If so, then you can buy B (second semester materials) along with maybe the Enrichment book. If you find you like the program but you have a student who is struggling a bit you could get the Reteach workbook to help you help them. Since you have been using MM, MiF shouldn't be TOO off from what you are already using. Good luck whatever you decide (FWIW, MUS is a great program but I think from you have posted that you would not find it as engaging or as in depth as MiF). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisylynn Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 Thank you!! This does look like a good option for us! Ok, so I looked at the 5th grade placement test. They haven't taken it yet, but just from looking at it, I think they will know most of those. Though I looked back on 4A just to see, and many of those we haven't even done! How is that? And if they place in 5th, will they be missing what they didn't get in 4th with this program? Or will they still reveiw that some in 5th? It says if they score above 80, to do the next level. But at what point (low score) would you go the level below? I didn't see any clear guidelines on that. Is there not a placement test for 6th/7th grade? My daughter will be 7th grade but is doing 6A in MM right now. Where would I place her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I would honestly just do a pre-algebra placement test for your rising 7th grader and switch her to one of the many pre-algebra programs (Dolciani, Lial, AoPS, etc.), which are discussed in detail in the Logic forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisylynn Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 I would honestly just do a pre-algebra placement test for your rising 7th grader and switch her to one of the many pre-algebra programs (Dolciani, Lial, AoPS, etc.), which are discussed in detail in the Logic forum. Forgive my ignorance, but those are all new terms to me! Are those (Dolciani, Lial, AoPS) different curriculums? And where is the logic forum? Where would I do a pre-algebra placement test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisylynn Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 With Math in Focus for 5th grade, would I need the answer key and assessments or could I do without those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I agree with Deerforest. Dive into a Pre-A program for your 7th grader. Dolciani is a good older one. Traditional textbook, lots of problem sets, thorough and straightforward. The logic forum is the subforum of this one geared toward grades 5-8 (aka the logic stage). There's a link at the top of the curriculum forum. MiF is easier with the answer key. I'd get it. I don't know if it's what you want or not though. One of my ds went from MM to MiF. He ended up finishing out elementary math with MEP instead. MiF just didn't work for him. But at some point you just have to try something. I'd look at the relaxed math thread (it's pinned at the top of the gen ed board) and get some ideas for introducing some stuff to help them dislike math less in general as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) ...those are all new terms to me! Are those (Dolciani, Lial, AoPS) different curriculums? And where is the logic forum? ... This right here where this thread appears is the WTM K-8 Board. Here is the WTM Logic Stage and Middle Grade Challenges Board -- it is a sub-forum of this K-8 Board. Here is the WTM High School Board (which has a College Board as a sub-forum). Dolciani and Lial are the last names of authors of upper math (Pre-Algebra and up) textbooks, while AoPS is short for Art of Problem Solving, which publishes middle school/high school math programs and which also publishes the Beast Academy series -- so far for grades 3, 4 and now 5. Often, at either Pre-Algebra or Algebra, families switch over to a publisher or program that specializes in the high school maths, especially programs that have video lessons or tutorials as additional support for non-mathy parents ;) -- below are some of the most frequently mentioned math programs/textbooks for Pre-Algebra and up. Also check out this great pinned thread at the top of the High School Board for more reviews and info on the various high school math programs: "Homeschool High School Math". Saxon Math (spiral; abstract; non-visual; parts-to-whole; formula-based) Pre-Algebra (Algebra 1/2); Algebra 1; Algebra 2; Geometry (choice of new editions as separate program, OR, older editions with Geometry integrated in Alg.1 & 2); Pre-Calculus / Trigonometry ("Advanced Mathematics"); Calculus supplements/supports: Saxon DIVE CDs; Teaching Tape Technology videos Margaret Lial textbooks (traditional textbook) Pre-Algebra (Basic College Mathematics); Algebra 1 (Introductory Algebra); Algebra 2 (Intermediate Algebra); Geometry; Pre-Calculus supplements/suports: Digital Video Tutor Harold Jacobs textbooks (textbook; mastery; incremental; parts-to-whole; real-life examples -- these books are out-of-print, so you have to track them down used) Algebra 1, Geometry supplements/supports = Dr. Callahan DVDs Bob Jones University Press (traditional textbook) Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry, Pre-Calculus, Consumer Math options: DVD program, online class Abeka publishing (traditional textbook) Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry, Pre-Calculus, Consumer Math, Business Math options: DVDs Paul Foerster textbooks (mastery; fosters "math-thinking"; good for STEM students) Algebra 1; Algebra 2; Pre-Calc / Trig supplement = Math w/o Borders (DVD tutorials) = http://mathwithoutborders.com Ron Larson textbooks Pre-Algebra through Calculus; online support Math-U-See (mastery; video-based lessons with workbook; use of manipulatives; "light") Pre-Algebra; Algebra 1; Algebra 2; Geometry; Pre-Calculus; "Stewardship" (Personal Finance) options: online co-op classes = https://www.mathusee.com/parents/online-classes/ Teaching Textbooks (video lessons; gentle pace; for older editions, you need to also do the first part of Pre-Calc for the rest of typical Algebra 2 topics) Pre-Algebra; Algebra 1; Algebra 2; Geometry; Pre-Calculus Chalkdust (video-based lessons; more on the rigorous end of programs) Algebra 1; Algebra 2; Geometry; Pre-Calculus; Calculus Videotext Algebra 1; Algebra 2; Geometry; Pre-Calculus online help option Kinetic Books (digital traditional textbook with animations, interactive simulations, etc) Pre-Algebra; Algebra 1; Algebra 2; Geometry Life of Fred (real-life-based, with emphasis on learning through story) Pre-Algebra; Algebra 1; Algebra 2; Geometry; Pre-Calculus; Calculus; Statistics Art of Problem Solving (very rigorous; heavy problem-solving emphasis) Pre-Algebra; Algebra 1; Algebra 2; Geometry; Pre-Calculus; Calculus options: online classes = http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/index.php Edited July 31, 2016 by Lori D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisylynn Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 Ok, thank you!! I took my 7th grader/pre-Algebra question to the other forum once I found it! ha! With MiF, I noticed that there is a workbook AND a student book, plus the teacher book. Do the teacher and student book match? Or are those completely different? I think my youngest could do any program at all and be fine. It's my middle child that I'm most concerned about. It's a struggle every single day with him and math. I thought of MUS, but he really doesn't like all the manipulatives. I don't think he'd like the video either. Ahhhh. I just don't know. I want to give him the best possible chance at doing well and at least somewhat enjoying math. I wish this wasn't so hard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) …I think my youngest could do any program at all and be fine. It's my middle child that I'm most concerned about. It's a struggle every single day with him and math. I thought of MUS, but he really doesn't like all the manipulatives. I don't think he'd like the video either... You might look at Beast Academy 4A/4B/4C/4D for your rising 4th and 5th graders. The 5th grader could work at a brisker pace through the 4A-D as review for the first semester of 5th grade, and then do 5A/5B in the second semester -- levels 5C and 5D have not been published yet but are due out soon. Perhaps your middle child might want a "just get 'er done" type of math program? If Christian materials are okay, what about Christian Light Education? To see samples, go to the CLE website and look for the "browse curriculum" menu option, select: "by subject: Math", then scroll down to Grade 5, and then in tiny words under each picture of the units: grade 5 math samples - unit 1; unit 2; unit 3; unit 4; unit 5; unit 6; unit 7; unit 8; unit 9; unit 10 BEST of luck in finding what is the best fit! Warmest regards, Lori D. Edited July 31, 2016 by Lori D. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisylynn Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 Lori, thank you so much!!! I think we were posting at the same time and I didn't even see your post right above mine until now! This is such helpful information!! I will be checking this all out!! I had thought of CLE last year but decided not to. I can't remember why though. Maybe I thought it was too light? I don't know, but I'll revisit it! :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 CLE is great, but it's a spiral, and you asked for Mastery suggestions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 CLE is great, but it's a spiral... Yeah, but I was thinking from her description of her students' negative reactions to MM and it's heavy mastery focus that maybe a shift towards spiral (not as extreme as Saxon's spiral) might actually be a better fit… Maybe they really would prefer a bit of variety that spiral can provide?? Just brainstorming. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisylynn Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 CLE is great, but it's a spiral, and you asked for Mastery suggestions? Yes! That was probably why I chose not to go with it. Yeah, but I was thinking from her description of her students' negative reactions to MM and it's heavy mastery focus that maybe a shift towards spiral (not as extreme as Saxon's spiral) might actually be a better fit… Maybe they really would prefer a bit of variety that spiral can provide?? Just brainstorming. ;) Thank you so much for brainstorming! That's what I need. I'm still at a loss as to what to do :( My olderst may like the spiral better. I'm just not sure. We've never done spiral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 My dd went straight into Dolciani pre-algebra after MM 5B. We liked MM for a while, but it started to become too nitpicky. My ds switched from MM 3A to Teaching Textbooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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