Calls from camp

[mommymonster]

DH received a call from the nature camp DS10 (almost 11) is attending this week. Apparently, a girl was shooting DS10 with a water bottle, and DS10 had asked her repeatedly to stop. A camp counselor stepped in and asked her to stop, as well. She did not. DS10 then hit her in the arm/shoulder. Another camper stepped in, and DS10 kicked him. DS10 realized he was behaving poorly and took himself out of the games and asked for a quiet place to collect himself. The camp called us to let us know, but didn't want us to pick up DS10. 

 

I'm wondering what I should do about this from a parenting perspective. We have a universal no hit policy -- we don't solve problems by hitting, kicking, or violence, period. That being said, he's been really physical with DS7 lately, and I've reminded him repeatedly about not hitting/kicking/etc. 

 

He gets tons of exercise. I do think pre-puberty/puberty might be starting -- he's getting leg hair and acne, and really starting to grow. Maybe hormones? But man, he *knows better* than to hit/kick/punch, whatever. He did take himself out of the situation, but good lord, violence is not a solution. 

 

What do I do? I'm tempted to take him out of the camp as punishment, but he probably needs to stay to learn the consequences of that behavior. 

 

Ugh. Please help me be a better parent on this one. 

[Spryte]

I think, in this case, I'd let the camp handle it. I would probably call again tomorrow or this afternoon to check in, and let them know I'm available to pick him up.

 

I'm thinking that he did a fairly good job recognizing the problem, and that he is learning a big lesson there, at the camp.

 

Not that I'm an expert! ;)

[redsquirrel]

I would check in with the camp later today and tomorrow and see how he was doing.  He screwed up, realized it and removed himself. That's really the best thing he could have done in the moment. 

 

I might ask the councilor if your son was asked to make an appropriate apology with some reflection on what he had done. 

 

But everyone screws up and sometimes, if you are lucky, you learn from it. Maybe hitting a kid who isn't his brother and having other adults step in etc can be a great learning experience.  He's young, this is a great time for him to learn this lesson.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

DH received a call from the nature camp DS10 (almost 11) is attending this week. Apparently, a girl was shooting DS10 with a water bottle, and DS10 had asked her repeatedly to stop. A camp counselor stepped in and asked her to stop, as well. She did not. DS10 then hit her in the arm/shoulder. Another camper stepped in, and DS10 kicked him. DS10 realized he was behaving poorly and took himself out of the games and asked for a quiet place to collect himself. The camp called us to let us know, but didn't want us to pick up DS10. 

 

I'm wondering what I should do about this from a parenting perspective. We have a universal no hit policy -- we don't solve problems by hitting, kicking, or violence, period. That being said, he's been really physical with DS7 lately, and I've reminded him repeatedly about not hitting/kicking/etc. 

 

He gets tons of exercise. I do think pre-puberty/puberty might be starting -- he's getting leg hair and acne, and really starting to grow. Maybe hormones? But man, he *knows better* than to hit/kick/punch, whatever. He did take himself out of the situation, but good lord, violence is not a solution. 

 

What do I do? I'm tempted to take him out of the camp as punishment, but he probably needs to stay to learn the consequences of that behavior. 

 

Ugh. Please help me be a better parent on this one. 

 

The bolded? That's what you need to know. You're doing a great job, and so is ds. The camp seems to be reasonable, too, in communicating well with you but wanting him to stay.

 

But there is another question, which is this: If ds knows the home rules about hitting and mostly adheres to that policy, is camp stressing him out too much? If it's the beginning of the week and he's already seeming a little more desperate when it comes to coping tools, going straight to hitting and kicking? 

[SKL]

I would not bring him home over this, but I would talk about it after he gets home and, despite his age, maybe role play some alternatives.

 

I would consider a martial arts class to help develop self-discipline and self-esteem.

 

I'm glad the camp isn't sending him home.  Having them work with him on this will be helpful IMO for several reasons.  It will offer a somewhat different approach to supplement what you do at home, and it will add credibility to what you say at home.  Plus, I'm sure there are other benefits to letting him finish out the time at camp, if things are otherwise going well.

[regentrude]

I would let the camp handle it.

He realized that he needed to leave the situation to calm down; I would commend him for this, and not punish him for losing his temper in the face of repeated taunting - he was obviously aware that he did not react appropriately.

Edited July 26, 2016 by regentrude

[UCF612]

I would let the camp handle it.

He realized that he needed to leave the situation to calm down; I would commend him for this, and not punish him for losing his temper in the face of repeated taunting - he was obviously aware that he did not react appropriately.

Ditto

[mommymonster]

Thanks everyone, for the quick responses. We'll definitely have another talk tonight, and role playing sounds like a great idea. 

 

 

...

 

But there is another question, which is this: If ds knows the home rules about hitting and mostly adheres to that policy, is camp stressing him out too much? If it's the beginning of the week and he's already seeming a little more desperate when it comes to coping tools, going straight to hitting and kicking? 

 

Tibbie, I'm asking this question myself. It's really hot here this week, which DS10 doesn't do well with. Also, yesterday the camp was super active and DS10 was in bed and asleep by 8:30 and slept until 7 am. That's a solid two hours more than he normally sleeps. I think yesterday took a lot out of him in terms of energy. We did an extra-large dinner last night and breakfast this morning, so we tried to help keep his energy / problem solving abilities intact. That being said, he's a slow eater in general, and he said that yesterday he didn't have time to eat most of his lunch, and I'm wondering if that happened again today. The kid needs food or falls to pieces... 

 

 

 

 

[marbel]

I would let the camp handle it.

He realized that he needed to leave the situation to calm down; I would commend him for this, and not punish him for losing his temper in the face of repeated taunting - he was obviously aware that he did not react appropriately.

 

Yes to this.

 

If the camp wanted him to leave, I'd not argue about it, and would go get him. But they don't. 

 

And, now you have a few more days to prepare for a conversation with him.  I wouldn't be planning any punishment, just a good talk about it all.  

 

[OneStepAtATime]

1.  He did not immediately attack the camper that was attacking him.

2.  You admit he was probably already under physical stress from lots of activity and stimulation and possibly not enough food but he tried to handle the situation without physical violence after being attacked several times.

3.  He is already showing signs of puberty so his hormones may also be affecting him.

4.  The counselor stepped in to try and get the other child to stop and it actually had no affect on the camper assaulting your son (at that point he probably felt pretty helpless).

5.  When he did finally react, he realized he should not have done what he did and despite all of the above possible issues he removed himself from the situation.

 

I think he should absolutely be commended for trying as hard as he did.  Focus on what he did right.  Praise him for that so that what he did right will be what he focuses on the next time he is in this type of situation.  And I agree with up thread, roll playing might help, too, to give him an arsenal of ways to deal with these situations.  

 

Think of it this way, if you were exhausted and hungry and with a whole bunch of strangers in a place you could not easily remove yourself from and another adult came up to you and repeatedly assaulted you, and nothing anyone else said made any difference to that person to stop their behavior, how would you feel?  What would you do?  You are an adult so you'd be trying to find a reasonable way to end the assaults but you might have to physically defend yourself.  Now put yourself in that same scenario only you are a kid and heading into the hormonal pre-teen years...  

 

Frankly, I think you've done a great job of teaching him.  Keep up the good work.   :)

Edited July 26, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[Arcadia]

My DS11 needs "sugar intake" every two hours and he eats slow. I packed packs of pasteurized milk and a few granola bars for lunch because that has a higher chance of him finishing in the time allocated. Can the camp give him a longer lunch time?

 

I think your son has cope well given the scenario and his age.

[SKL]

FTR my kids' bullying instruction was to:

• Tell the person to knock it off.
• Tell an adult if the person won't knock it off.
• Ask the other person if he is looking for a fight.  If they are, let them hit first; block and hit back (once for each time they try to hit you).  At that point you may get in trouble for hitting, but the bullying will probably stop.

I know throwing water is not equivalent to hitting, but I think sometimes it isn't fair to put a kid in a position where he's not allowed to use physical means to stop physical attacks.

Edited July 26, 2016 by SKL

[fraidycat]

The bolded? That's what you need to know. You're doing a great job, and so is ds. The camp seems to be reasonable, too, in communicating well with you but wanting him to stay.

 

But there is another question, which is this: If ds knows the home rules about hitting and mostly adheres to that policy, is camp stressing him out too much? If it's the beginning of the week and he's already seeming a little more desperate when it comes to coping tools, going straight to hitting and kicking?

I disagree that this happened. Not even remotely.

 

He used his words. An ADULT used their words. The attacks didn't stop.

 

I think the girl got what she deserved. Life lesson: Actions have consequences. I feel bad for the other kid that got kicked.

 

I would commend your DS for his patience and for realizing when he crossed the line and removing himself from the situation. A gentle reminder to walk away just a little bit earlier next time and apologizing to the second kid is all I would do.

[Annie G]

I think your son did quite well considering the situation.  

[Chris in VA]

So to clarify, this is daycamp, not sleep-away?

[mommymonster]

This is a day camp. We pick him up at 4 pm daily.

 

Thanks, everyone for your responses. I hope he's having a positive afternoon.

[OneStepAtATime]

This is a day camp. We pick him up at 4 pm daily.

 

Thanks, everyone for your responses. I hope he's having a positive afternoon.

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Me, too. :)

[mommymonster]

Well, I picked DS up at the regular time. His version of events was consistent with what we heard from the counselor. However, DS10 isn't sure he wants to go back (he said it first thing; he was so upset). He said most of the kids were being really aggressive, that the counselors were on their phones and SnapChatting, and that instead of doing the things in the brochure they are playing games. So basically they didn't get to spend a day fishing and they aren't building a boat (it was to be a group project), they are playing capture the flag. I'm so disappointed on so many levels (with the camp).

 

The counselor said DS10 pulled it together and while he didn't behave perfectly, he was being harassed. So... now what to do with the rest of this week? DS10 would like to go on Thursday because they are supposed to go canoeing all day. I think I'm going to let him choose what to do on this one. He's old enough to make the call. 

[JFSinIL]

I am glad the camp is handling it the way they are.  If anyone should be sent home, it is the girl who would not stop even when an adult stepped in.  Little brat.  Your son handled things as best he could for his age. 

 

Martial arts is a great idea - teaches how to defend oneself, true, but also how to handle situations, as using the moves learned in martial arts is always a last resort.  My youngest dd got her black belt in Kyuki-Do  a few years ago.  Find whichever school or dojo is most recommended in your area - we chose a Korean martial art since the headquarters is in our city, and the son of the man who developed about sixty years ago it runs the studio. Several of the instructors have been with the place for years, and they are all highly respected in our community.  DD could have done a different martial art, except other schools for karate, etc. were basically fairly new storefront studios, and for the time and money one invests in a martial art, you want a place that has a history and does not look like it might close within a year.  Taekwondo is another very good martial art, but again, depends what is close to you.

[SKL]

I agree with letting him choose what days to go back.

 

I'm sorry he had such a bad experience.  :(

[SKL]

Re what to do with the rest of the week:  myself, I'd give him some other work to do.  But I'm kinda mean that way.  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

Well, I picked DS up at the regular time. His version of events was consistent with what we heard from the counselor. However, DS10 isn't sure he wants to go back (he said it first thing; he was so upset). He said most of the kids were being really aggressive, that the counselors were on their phones and SnapChatting, and that instead of doing the things in the brochure they are playing games. So basically they didn't get to spend a day fishing and they aren't building a boat (it was to be a group project), they are playing capture the flag. I'm so disappointed on so many levels (with the camp).

 

The counselor said DS10 pulled it together and while he didn't behave perfectly, he was being harassed. So... now what to do with the rest of this week? DS10 would like to go on Thursday because they are supposed to go canoeing all day. I think I'm going to let him choose what to do on this one. He's old enough to make the call. 

Can you talk to someone at the camp and ask why the things your son joined the camp to do are not really being offered?  I would definitely want an explanation.  And I would absolutely be confirming that the canoe trip won't be one more thing that gets dropped.

 

I am sorry he is upset and the counselors are not involved and supervising and doing the things a good counselor should.  I hate cell phone use in situations like this.  Counselors should put their phones away while supervising children.  Goodness.

[mommymonster]

Martial arts is a great idea - teaches how to defend oneself, true, but also how to handle situations, as using the moves learned in martial arts is always a last resort.  My youngest dd got her black belt in Kyuki-Do  a few years ago.  Find whichever school or dojo is most recommended in your area - we chose a Korean martial art since the headquarters is in our city, and the son of the man who developed about sixty years ago it runs the studio. Several of the instructors have been with the place for years, and they are all highly respected in our community.  DD could have done a different martial art, except other schools for karate, etc. were basically fairly new storefront studios, and for the time and money one invests in a martial art, you want a place that has a history and does not look like it might close within a year.  Taekwondo is another very good martial art, but again, depends what is close to you.

 

You know, it's funny, but DS10 took martial arts when he was six for about a year. He asked to stop because he didn't like punching people. He thought it was a bad way to solve problems. Kids are funny sometimes. 

[OneStepAtATime]

You know, it's funny, but DS10 took martial arts when he was six for about a year. He asked to stop because he didn't like punching people. He thought it was a bad way to solve problems. Kids are funny sometimes. 

What about something like Tai Chi?

[8circles]

I'm with fraidycat. I think your son great under the circumstances.

 

I wouldn't send him back to that camp and I'd tell them what my son said.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Counselors on phones would be reason enough for me not to send him back, but especially if his perception of the camp is that people are aggressive and they aren't even doing the fun activities that were promised.

 

Can you go canoeing as a family this weekend?

[Debbi in Texas]

While I don't agree with hitting, I think the girl should be in as much trouble as your son. She started it and wouldn't stop.

[kiwik]

I don't get why they called you at all. Ds7 had a similar incident last week (ex except he lashed out at the teacher as well) and they just dealt with it and mentioned it when I picked him up (to be fair they know him well and he hasn't got that upset before) I have to send him so I can work though. If I didn't I would probably keep him at home.

 

The only reason I can see for them ringing you if they didn't want him removed was that they wanted to get their side in first.

Edited July 28, 2016 by kiwik

[Garga]

Well, I picked DS up at the regular time. His version of events was consistent with what we heard from the counselor. However, DS10 isn't sure he wants to go back (he said it first thing; he was so upset). He said most of the kids were being really aggressive, that the counselors were on their phones and SnapChatting, and that instead of doing the things in the brochure they are playing games. So basically they didn't get to spend a day fishing and they aren't building a boat (it was to be a group project), they are playing capture the flag. I'm so disappointed on so many levels (with the camp).

 

The counselor said DS10 pulled it together and while he didn't behave perfectly, he was being harassed. So... now what to do with the rest of this week? DS10 would like to go on Thursday because they are supposed to go canoeing all day. I think I'm going to let him choose what to do on this one. He's old enough to make the call.

Did you ask them why they weren't doing the activities? Maybe Monday was for everyone playing games and Tues-Fri was for the other things?

 

What did you decide to do? (I'm just being curious.)

[mommymonster]

Did you ask them why they weren't doing the activities? Maybe Monday was for everyone playing games and Tues-Fri was for the other things?

 

What did you decide to do? (I'm just being curious.)

 

 

Garga -- DS went ahead and pulled himself together. He did camp yesterday and did fine. He's also paddling today, which is good. 

 

The camp has been somewhat of a bust. We signed him up for it in March because they were supposed to be on the water every day, building a boat, fishing, and paddling. Unfortunately, a new director started in May and decided to put her own stamp on camp, changing the program so that they didn't build a boat or do the fishing. They changed the description post-her arrival, but the people who had signed up earlier were not informed of the changes. DH spoke with the director about the changes in schedule, as well as how the camp was being run (counselors on SnapChat, etc). She didn't think anyone would mind the cell phones, etc., and was not entirely helpful on that score. That being said, she did keep a closer eye on DS10 yesterday and made him her helper so that the older boys weren't able to pick on him. The camp is for 10-14 year olds, and the older boys have been doing the camp there for the past month (it's a day camp, so basically babysitting with activities). 

 

In any case, it's not the experience we had hoped for, but DS10 is making it work. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Garga -- DS went ahead and pulled himself together. He did camp yesterday and did fine. He's also paddling today, which is good. 

 

The camp has been somewhat of a bust. We signed him up for it in March because they were supposed to be on the water every day, building a boat, fishing, and paddling. Unfortunately, a new director started in May and decided to put her own stamp on camp, changing the program so that they didn't build a boat or do the fishing. They changed the description post-her arrival, but the people who had signed up earlier were not informed of the changes. DH spoke with the director about the changes in schedule, as well as how the camp was being run (counselors on SnapChat, etc). She didn't think anyone would mind the cell phones, etc., and was not entirely helpful on that score. That being said, she did keep a closer eye on DS10 yesterday and made him her helper so that the older boys weren't able to pick on him. The camp is for 10-14 year olds, and the older boys have been doing the camp there for the past month (it's a day camp, so basically babysitting with activities). 

 

In any case, it's not the experience we had hoped for, but DS10 is making it work. 

 

She didn't think that parents who PAID for a camp would mind if the counselors spent their time on their phones instead of engaging with the kids?!

 

You guys are being really good sports given all of this, because I would be LIVID if I paid for a specific kind of camp only to have it changed the way it was, especially if the kids' lack of activity and engagement led to bored kids making trouble for my child as a result. This is a good lesson for your son; I'm glad he's making the best of it. I don't know if you can go up the chain about the problems here, but after he's done with this camp, if you can, you should. 

[luuknam]

She didn't think that parents who PAID for a camp would mind if the counselors spent their time on their phones instead of engaging with the kids?!

 

Yep, I'd be requesting a refund (I'd be willing to accept a partial refund, but I'd start out by asking for a full one).