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Posted

For various reasons I'm looking into switching my very bright, 13 year-old son to Math-U-See. We used Horizons until 6th, then switched to TT7 last year. We had some medical/family situations last spring, though, so he didn't finish the book. Thus, I decided to have him complete the book this summer before staring school for the fall. I'm discovering that he is really not solid on the basics (sometimes even struggling with multi-digit multiplication and long division). I've already had him reviewing fractions with Life of Fred (which is how I noticed all of this) but am feeling that he needs to go even further back. Math-U-See interests me for him, as I'm wondering if it would help increase his understanding of the "why" of basic math concepts.

 

So, having said all that, how far back would he need to go in Math-U-See to cover those basics? Also, how long would it take him to work through those and PreAlgebra? I would plan on working through next summer. Is that at all feasible?

Posted

I would get the multiplication and division one. I forget gamma, yada yada. But those , since you mention that's were you're seeing not solid on, and do them everyday.

 

Since division is backward multiplication , I would do a lesson per day for both mult. And div.

 

Mus does help with the why and has helped my boys tremendously.

 

I used mus to introduce the lesson of Singapore . you can use mus and another curriculum. Mus are short lessons.

 

Since those are the 2 areas you are seeing I would just do those each day then wherever you are in your current book AND back up and do practice usin the mult. And div. kumon books are really good for the extra practice .

 

Math can be so tricky and easy to forget .

 

I would do :

 

Mus Multiplication lesson

Division lesson

Kumon practice books of mult. And div.

Whatever math program you've used that has done well with him. Repeating or continuing on in a math program never hurts.

 

Once he catches up , reassess and go from there.

 

Love mus. Has been so helpful for us. We still use it.

Posted

Give him the placement and *watch* him take it.  Take note of any areas where he pauses or seems to struggle.

 

I put my son who was in the middle of Saxon 7/6 into MUS Beta because he wasn't understanding basic arithmetic in a deep way (and Saxon was actually covering that fact up--long story).  He went through Beta-Zeta in about 6 months (zooming though the easy stuff and slowing down on what he was iffy on) and his arithmetic was solid from then on.

 

After you get him through Zeta, I'd put him in a solid prealgebra course.  He will probably be able to get through in in a semester.

Posted (edited)

If I remember correctly, each lesson has 3 pages on the new lesson, 3 pages of review, and a test.  You could start in Gamma, give your son each test and if he does well, skip the lesson.
 
FWIW, I'll post my review below.
 
Math-U-See website is:  www.mathusee.com.  There is a placement test at the website.
 
I think MUS is terrific in the elementary years!  We completed MUS from K through Algebra.
 
The advantage for the teacher is that the program is laid out so well.  I spend a maximum of 15 minutes a week preparing for the lesson.  Each teacher's book comes with a DVD or video, where Steve Demme teaches each lesson in front of a small group of kids.  This helps me with ideas on how to present the lesson to my son.  The DVD basically repeats what is said in the teacher's manual, but somehow it helps me to see it.  I watched the video religiously for the first few years.  Now, I just read the teacher’s lesson, which has the same information, and present the lesson to my son.  Some parents have their kids watch the DVD with them.  Some parents have their kids watch the DVD without them.
 
The advantage for the children is that each lesson works on a particular skill and yet lays the foundation for advanced material.  While they are teaching addition, they have problems like 5+A=12.  Because of problems like this, when it came time to do subtraction, my son already knew it.  They teach skip counting in K-1st.  After they teach skip counting by 5s, they teach reading a clock to the 5-10-15... minutes.  After they teach skip counting by 7s, they ask how many days in x number of weeks.  So, they apply skip counting right away.  While they teach skip counting, they have the children figure out the area of a rectangle using their skip counting.  So, they are teaching multiplication before they have even heard the word or seen 5x3=15.  While they are formally teaching multiplication, they have problems like 6xA=24.  Because of problems like this, when it came time to do division, my son already knew it.  In fact, he said 'This is the easiest thing I've ever learned'.  Throughout Alpha through Zeta, they are solving for the unknown, which is preparing them for algebra.
 
They use blocks as manipulatives.  The blocks are kind of like legos in that it is easy to tell the number of each block.  When they add 5+7, they take a 5 block, stack a 7 block on top of it, then side by side, they put a 10 block and a 2 block.  It's easy to SEE the answer.  They use the blocks to teach multiplication.  When they multiply 12x13, they use a red 100 block with 2 blue 10 blocks on the right hand side to show 12 columns.  They use 3 more blue 10 blocks on top to make 13 rows.  They fill in the 6 blocks in the corner to make a rectangle.  It's easy to SEE that 12x13=156.  My son would use the blocks a bit at first, then he wouldn't need to use them anymore.  He just knew how to do it in his head.
 
Epsilon (5th grade) works with fractions.  They have fraction overlays that really help the kids SEE fractions.  They are a little difficult to describe, but I'll try.  On the bottom, there is a white background piece. On the top there is a clear plastic piece with lines dividing the white background piece into halves or thirds or fourths or fifths ... In the middle is a colored piece that represents 1/2 or 2/2 or 1/3 or 2/3 or 3/3 or 1/4 or 2/4 or ...  When you add 2/3 + 1/4, you set up the 2/3, set up the 1/4, then take the extra clear plastic piece divided into 4 and place it crosswise over the 2/3, SEEing that 2/3 is the same as 8/12.  You take the extra clear plastic piece divided into 3 and place it crosswise over the 1/4, SEEing that 1/4 is the same as 3/12.  Adding, 8/12 + 3/12 is easy then.
 
I have found the balance of new material vs. review to be just right for us in the new program.  There are 30 lessons in each book   Each lesson has 3 lesson pages (new concept) and 3 review pages.  The first review page had a “quick review†of a particular topic.  This helps to refresh my son’s memory if he has forgotten the topic.  The review of earlier concepts is very methodical.
 
Sometimes, people ask about testing.  Here is my experience.  When my son was about ½ way through Epsilon (5th grade), I had to have him evaluated due to state law.  He took the Woodcock Johnson test (national test which only took 30 minutes total), and the results were startling.  His math calculation came out upper 8th grade and his math reasoning came out mid 9th grade!  It took me a while to understand this.  It does not mean that he is doing 8th/9th grade math work.  It means that my son, working at 5.5 grade level, does as well as the average 8th/9th grader.  When he was ½ way through Zeta (6th grade), he took the Kaufman Test of Educational Achievement and scored post high school in math.  After MUS Pre-Algebra, he scored 11.4 on the math total of the ITBS.

 

Sometimes, people are concerned about the scope & sequence of MUS.  If you look at the scope & sequence of some other math curriculums or what is being taught in your local elementary school, you may find it different from MUS.  MUS uses a "mastery" approach.  It focuses on single digit addition and subtraction in alpha, multiple digit addition and subtraction in beta, multiplication in gamma, division in delta, fractions in epsilon, and decimals in zeta, roughly 1st-6th grade.  Other curriculums use a "spiral" approach.  They do a little bit of addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractions in each grade with each year getting progressively more difficult.  This concerns some people.  If they put their child in school in 3rd grade, their child may have not seen fractions at all, whereas the ps'ers would have seen simple fractions.  This does not mean that the 3rd graders who have been taught simple fractions actually understand them, just that they have seen them.
 
But, because MUS focuses on one concept each year, I see that as one of its strengths.  I think it really helps the child to know multiplication (for example) until they know it forwards, backwards, sideways, and upside down.  I think it helps to CEMENT it in the child's head. 
Here are some of the negatives I've heard over the years:  (1) It has no color, pictures, or games to make it “funâ€.  That’s true.  It’s more of a solid, straightforward approach.  (2)  The word problems aren't as challenging as they could be.  We do supplement with Singapore’s Challenging Word Problems.
 
I have a degree in math.  My son picks math up very quickly.  But, this program is so well laid out that most of the time, the learning is easy.  Once in a while, it’s a little difficult, like multiple digit multiplication and long division.  But, the approach is so incremental, that they learn little by little until they know a whole lot.
 
I hope this has been helpful.  Believe it or not, I'm not a rep.  Just a very happy user.
 
Final note:  I was not as impressed with Algebra as with the previous levels.  It did not cover as much material as traditional Algebra texts (ex. quadratic formula was not presented).  We will not continue with MUS through high school.

Edited by Sue in St Pete
  • Like 3
Posted

I started my boys in MUS when they were in 6th & 8th, I think.   One started in beta and the other gamma.  I highly recommend MUS for exactly this situation!    They were able to complete 1.5-2 books each year, and the younger was caught up by high school (and will be taking AP Calculus.)  Even the older student made it through Alg 2 in high school. (Like a previous poster, we also ditched MUS at the high school level.)  Anyway, good luck!  I think you'll find MUS works well for remediation!   (I'm still using it for my gifted youngest, too, up through zeta, but am allowing her to test first, and only do the sections she needs to.  MUS is very flexible.)

 

Posted

Prealgebra does review fractions and decimals. What I did with my oldest (who placed into pre-algebra, but did need some brushing up on fractions and decimals) was to get the DVD's from those two programs so we could watch lessons that went with the review if he struggled at all. That worked pretty well here. If a student places lower though, I'd just start where he places and work through however quickly he can, laying a solid foundation. MUS for Pre-alg on up has been a good fit here.

Posted

I think MUS is much better than TT. That said, it is not rigorous. It is very thorough in the earlier years. But for high school, I would call it decent, but not rigorous. There are more rigorous programs out there. But if I had to chose between TT and MUS, I would say MUS. I really like MUS. And it does an excellent job explaining concepts.

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