Los Altos School District and Khan Academy

[...................]

We have a friend who is in that district and she loves using Khan Academy. The district piloted the program in 2011 and the results were so amazing that they expanded it to all 5-7th grade students (over 1400 kids) and are still seeing stellar results. To add to the positives is that they are already one of the highest performing school districts in the country.

 

The teachers allow khan to do all the work, but they watch who is struggling and pull them aside for one on one attention and they meet with groups once a week for math hands on projects and such.

 

But the day to day teaching, learning and practicing is all using Khan academy.

 

How could it be that bad, if it's working for an entire districts middle grades?

 

I have the Larson pre algebra but my dd heard about her friend and is begging me to use khan , of course I would supplement but I just don't know.

 

Thought I would share my research though

[Ellie]

We have a friend who is in that district and she loves using Khan Academy. The district piloted the program in 2011 and the results were so amazing that they expanded it to all 5-7th grade students (over 1400 kids) and are still seeing stellar results. To add to the positives is that they are already one of the highest performing school districts in the country.

 

The teachers allow khan to do all the work, but they watch who is struggling and pull them aside for one on one attention and they meet with groups once a week for math hands on projects and such.

 

But the day to day teaching, learning and practicing is all using Khan academy.

 

How could it be that bad, if it's working for an entire districts middle grades?

 

I have the Larson pre algebra but my dd heard about her friend and is begging me to use khan , of course I would supplement but I just don't know.

 

Thought I would share my research though

 

So, it's a public charter school that uses Khan Academy? Is it campus-based?

[...................]

No, it's a regular public school district. It is campus based and the physical kids use computers to do their math every day. They now have kids who are in 7th grade doing anything from 6th grade math to algebra 2 and on...ever kids at their own level. And they've been doing it for four years now exclusively using khan academy, and teachers getting involved on one on one basis as necessary, walking around the room and watching the teacher portal live.

[EKS]

I suspect that what is "good" about it is that the students are finally getting individualized instruction (of sorts), which is a very powerful way to boost achievement.  I would wager that it is not because Sal Khan is the world's most brilliant teacher.

 

I think that this is also why homeschooling works as well as it does, even though homeschooling parents are generally untrained and many times learning as they go.  Individualized instruction makes up for all sorts of deficiencies. 

[...................]

^^ Agreed!  

 

But maybe it can't be so mad even for a homeschooled student assuming I supplement as needed....

 

 

[fdrinca]

Also, the fact that it's the Los Altos School District that is having success doesn't surprise me. I would suspect with that cohort, one could implement nearly any curriculum and find success, especially by the middle grades.

[MinivanMom]

Also, the fact that it's the Los Altos School District that is having success doesn't surprise me. I would suspect with that cohort, one could implement nearly any curriculum and find success, especially by the middle grades.

 

I would suspect there is strong afterschooling going on in that area. I bet you could spend math class teaching the kids to juggle oranges, and they would still make amazing progress. The parents will always fill in the gaps.

 

Not to be down on Khan Academy - it's great - but I would love to see some research on these teaching techniques in a less-educated, less-affluent area.

[...................]

They also piloted it in under achieving charter schools and had improved test scores.

 

Of note is that fact that the kids outperformed themselves by a margin of an average of 20%.

 

Yes in that area parents after school all the time ...

[Arcadia]

They also piloted it in under achieving charter schools and had improved test scores.

 

Of note is that fact that the kids outperformed themselves by a margin of an average of 20%.

What test scores from the under achieving charters are they looking at? Because even Study Island and Aleks improve test scores by drilling test prep.

 

Los Altos itself has plenty of affluent parents who can tutor their own kids. A neighbor just moved into his parents home at Los Altos Hills for his oldest daughter to attend public school. She is already ahead in K compared to California norms but not compared to area norms.

 

Doing Khan Academy is at least less boring than everyone at the same page in the same class. Even though my kids wander away from math and did the programming and the science modules. I doubt a teacher would mind if the child is already acing the state math tests.

 

It also do away with the outcry of dropping the option of algebra for 6th since a 6th grader can go as high as he/she wants in Khan at no cost to the school district.

[...................]

True.  My dd is really enjoying using it for summer review and it's moving her along pretty fast.  I'm glad to have it.  

 

BUT I guess we should stick with Horizons.  Honestly she has always scored in the 90% in her standardized tests ...why mess with it

[Arcadia]

But maybe it can't be so mad even for a homeschooled student assuming I supplement as needed....

I think Jean in Newcastle wrote a good post on how she use Khan as the math spine for her child. I think she did the questions alongside her child.

The issue we had with Khan for any subject was that when my kids didn't take to the video, they would have to have reference material available to self teach or I have to be in the mood to explain. I do have a good stock of old PS textbooks and my kids google for more info so it is not too bad.

[2_girls_mommy]

We are using Khan academy alongside Lial's for Alg. I.  I have nothing but good to say about it here.

[...................]

Great, but I'm really curious why more of us don't use it exclusively :)

[daijobu]

Great, but I'm really curious why more of us don't use it exclusively :)

 

I thought Khan was boring.  I didn't like the black background with his squiggly lines; I felt he was not leveraging video to the greatest extent of its power.  (Did I mention the black background and squiggly lines?)   I had a hard time paying attention, and I prefer AoPS and using textbooks generally.  

 

But many people use Khan for homeschooling.  I thought I was the odd one who didn't like Khan.  

 

I'm not generally opposed to videos, though I use them as a supplement.  Crash Course and Bozeman (among many others) make good use of the visual medium to illustrate difficult concepts.  

[Arcadia]

Great, but I'm really curious why more of us don't use it exclusively :)

My DS10 is a screen addict. He can watch videos all day just because.

 

My DS11 would rather read a book than play video games and would rather watch Numberphile or Crash Course than Khan. He wasn't enthuse with AoPS videos either.

[kiwik]

I would suspect there is strong afterschooling going on in that area. I bet you could spend math class teaching the kids to juggle oranges, and they would still make amazing progress. The parents will always fill in the gaps.

 

Not to be down on Khan Academy - it's great - but I would love to see some research on these teaching techniques in a less-educated, less-affluent area.

I am not at all well off but a lot of the parents at the school ds9 attends are (more than other schools in town). They don't actually teach as far as I can tell except to direct to youtube or Khan. The kids do really well - they are engaged and score well. But i think a lot of them do their learning at home and their playing at school. Edited July 20, 2016 by kiwik

[wapiti]

Great, but I'm really curious why more of us don't use it exclusively :)

 

With the caveat that I haven't watched tons of the videos, my two cents: the video instruction for algebra and geometry is really boring, tends to teach procedures with little in the way of concepts, and can be a bit hard to follow.  Also, sometimes Khan is just plain not a good-enough math teacher; in one geometry video I saw, he out loud couldn't remember the most basic concept, which didn't exactly inspire confidence in the teaching.  When ds's algebra teacher was away one week last year, she assigned some khan videos and he asked me for help - I never did figure out the factoring trick it was trying to teach and ended up pulling out textbooks to help him.

 

The problems tend to lack challenge and the site's algorithm for showing mastery may be unreliable.

 

IMO it can be a useful supplement.  The great benefit to the school district students is the individualization.  It's amazing how much kids can learn when they are not held back to an artificial grade level timetable.

[nature girl]

I've only looked at a handful of Kahn videos for the lower grades, but I also found them incredibly boring. Maybe it works for students who are used to watching their teachers explain math on a board? (Even when I was in school, I was good at math but had a hard time absorbing it in class, I picked it up much better from written texts and my own fooling around with numbers.) I sat with DD awhile back to watch a video on multi-digit addition, and even though she loves media of any kind, she was drifting within 20 seconds. The voice is too bland, the way ideas are explained just isn't engaging in the way I can make math at least semi-engaging while doing it one-on-one with her.

 

So yes, I can understand it might be effective in a school environment when it's the only way they have of individualizing attention, but I don't think I'd ever use it myself for schooling at home.

[...................]

I've only looked at a handful of Kahn videos for the lower grades, but I also found them incredibly boring. Maybe it works for students who are used to watching their teachers explain math on a board? (Even when I was in school, I was good at math but had a hard time absorbing it in class, I picked it up much better from written texts and my own fooling around with numbers.) I sat with DD awhile back to watch a video on multi-digit addition, and even though she loves media of any kind, she was drifting within 20 seconds. The voice is too bland, the way ideas are explained just isn't engaging in the way I can make math at least semi-engaging while doing it one-on-one with her.

 

So yes, I can understand it might be effective in a school environment when it's the only way they have of individualizing attention, but I don't think I'd ever use it myself for schooling at home.

Most kids rarely watch the videos, unless they are stuck or learning a new concept....

 

You don't do a lot of video-watching....

 

YOu mostly work on the exact things you are struggling with or need to review... so it's more fun...becuase you never have a page of 30 problems that you already know how to do...you do exactly five, and then if you get them all correct in a row, it reviews something else or introduces something else...

 

So I don't know...I don't think the video watching is why homeschoolers haven't really tried it long-term. I think we are all just concerned because it's new and untested and we don't want our kids to fall behind, or lack something.  I'll be interested to see what's happening in ten years.

[daijobu]

 Also, sometimes Khan is just plain not a good-enough math teacher; in one geometry video I saw, he out loud couldn't remember the most basic concept, which didn't exactly inspire confidence in the teaching.  .

 

Do you happen to have a link to this video?  I suspected that he was going to for quantity in his videos instead of quality.  

 

KA videos are far inferior to AoPS or Crash Course a whole bunch of YouTube educational videos, IMO.  

[Caraway]

Results in Los Altos/Bay Area are not indicative of normal reality.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[...................]

^^ lol probably true.

[Mergath]

Great, but I'm really curious why more of us don't use it exclusively :)

 

I adore KA, but I don't think it incorporates enough practice to function as a full curriculum. Five or so problems might be enough to learn how to do something, but for most kids it isn't enough practice to get good at it. If we look at addition with regrouping, for example, after I taught dd how to do it she probably could have struggled through five problems in a row and gotten them correct, but it took far more practice for her to really master it and become able to do it naturally.

 

Combined with a more standard curriculum however, I think KA is fantastic. I really like Sal's teaching and the simplicity of the format. I hear a lot of people say it's boring, but not all kids need cartoons! and music! and colors! and excitement!  For many kids, all that is a distraction. And he does cover the conceptual side, but you have to go through ALL the videos on a given topic.

[Mergath]

I've only looked at a handful of Kahn videos for the lower grades, but I also found them incredibly boring. Maybe it works for students who are used to watching their teachers explain math on a board? (Even when I was in school, I was good at math but had a hard time absorbing it in class, I picked it up much better from written texts and my own fooling around with numbers.) I sat with DD awhile back to watch a video on multi-digit addition, and even though she loves media of any kind, she was drifting within 20 seconds. The voice is too bland, the way ideas are explained just isn't engaging in the way I can make math at least semi-engaging while doing it one-on-one with her.

 

So yes, I can understand it might be effective in a school environment when it's the only way they have of individualizing attention, but I don't think I'd ever use it myself for schooling at home.

 

Your child is six? When they're just starting it's easy to find creative ways to do math that don't involve a board, but as the math gets harder you can't really avoid it. Look at adding and subtracting multi-digit decimals, for example. I suppose you could find some convoluted way to teach it with pies or something, but there's no getting around the fact that most math you teach is going to be done on paper or a board. I mean, how many theoretical physicists do you see working out their equations with c-rods and tiny plastic bears? ;) 

[Alte Veste Academy]

So I don't know...I don't think the video watching is why homeschoolers haven't really tried it long-term. I think we are all just concerned because it's new and untested and we don't want our kids to fall behind, or lack something.  I'll be interested to see what's happening in ten years.

I don't know about this. I think many homeschoolers might be using it and we just don't hear about it. Lots of homeschoolers aren't on these boards.

 

As far as homeschoolers on these boards, there is so much discussion about conceptual learning that I imagine it is a litmus test for many. I checked out Khan quite a few times, wondering what I was missing whenever it was mentioned here or in the press (and when Bill Gates was so supportive especially, LOL), and it is just not as strong as what I was already using (Miquon, Singapore, some MM, AoPS). The few times one of my kids struggled with a concept, I searched for those topics on Khan only to find that the concepts were not really explained at all, that the instruction was procedural. Maybe as a whole, there is conceptual learning, but I wasn't seeing it.

[nature girl]

Your child is six? When they're just starting it's easy to find creative ways to do math that don't involve a board, but as the math gets harder you can't really avoid it. Look at adding and subtracting multi-digit decimals, for example. I suppose you could find some convoluted way to teach it with pies or something, but there's no getting around the fact that most math you teach is going to be done on paper or a board. I mean, how many theoretical physicists do you see working out their equations with c-rods and tiny plastic bears? ;)

 

Oh of course...My DD is also very VSL, and has ADHD, so when you combine all of that, plus her 6-year-oldness, she does much better one on one with our base-10 blocks, C-rods and the smiley-faced children on our SM textbook pages...Even with that, I still sometimes have to make up stories and turn the blocks into greedy animals trying to eat each other's feet, lol. I don't know how she'll survive the more complex math, but then again the complex math is also more intrinsically interesting, so who knows? (If we're hs'ing when she's old enough though, I'm counting on her loving BA as much as I think she will. I DO think it's possible to make the more advanced concepts engaging.)

Edited July 21, 2016 by nature girl

[amsunshine]

We looked into Khan when I wanted to find a good, online review program for math.  My dds used both Khan and ALEKS for a short time, and both greatly preferred ALEKS to Khan.  That said, I personally wouldn't use either program as a spine for many reasons already mentioned -- just as a supplement for review.  But, imperfect as it is, if Khan is actually improving learning outcomes for some -- especially in underperforming districts -- more power to them! 

[Arcadia]

Great, but I'm really curious why more of us don't use it exclusively :)

Los Altos school district use Khan 2 to 3 times a week due to hardware availability. So not exclusive either. There is also math homework which can be Khan only if the whole class has internet access at home. Los Altos K-8 has 4.6% on reduced/free lunch program.

 

It is in their FAQs http://www.lasdschools.org/files/user/2303/file/KAPresentationFAQs.pdf

Edited July 21, 2016 by Arcadia

[MinivanMom]

Los Altos school district use Khan 2 to 3 times a week due to hardware availability. So not exclusive either. There is also math homework which can be Khan only if the whole class has internet access at home. Los Altos K-8 has 4.6% on reduced/free lunch program.

 

It is in their FAQs http://www.lasdschools.org/files/user/2303/file/KAPresentationFAQs.pdf

 

The number on free/reduced lunch is 4.6%!!! I knew it was low, but that amazes me. Seriously, Los Altos is not your normal demographic.

[Arcadia]

The number on free/reduced lunch is 4.6%!!! I knew it was low, but that amazes me. Seriously, Los Altos is not your normal demographic.

My average performing district has 40% on free/reduced lunch but the district's lottery school has 4.3% only. Huge disparity in a district.

[MrSmith]

A couple of years ago I was looking into KA as independent enrichment for summer. Then I saw this and decided I could not risk it.

 

http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=25920011&item=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.edweek.org%2Fv1%2Fblogs%2F131%2F%3Fuuid%3D25032

[daijobu]

The number on free/reduced lunch is 4.6%!!! I knew it was low, but that amazes me. Seriously, Los Altos is not your normal demographic.

 

4% actually seems to high to me.  I can't imagine how a person can afford to live in Los Altos or LAH and not be able to afford to make a sack lunch.  

[MinivanMom]

I'm pretty sure Los Altos has low-income housing. 

[Arcadia]

Can't read that I don't have a subscription.

I could read the edweek link on my phone. It is a 2012 article listing errors in some of the Khan math videos which has since been corrected after being pointed out.

[SanDiegoMom]

My oldest (PS) daughter who loves every single subject except math has used it (finally!) to help her in her Pre-Calc class. She was so thankful to get the clear slow explanations. I think so many kids - if they don't get it in class- they are afraid to ask for an explanation. Especially if they are a wee bit too proud for their own good.

 

That being said, for my math loving kid, it wouldn't work at all. And Sal is just so boring. I think I would tear my hair out listening to him every day, unless I could put him on 1.5x speed.

[...................]

Haha ^^ my son hacks almost every video he watched for double or even triple speed. But I think he was unable to do that with KA

[shawthorne44]

Your child is six? When they're just starting it's easy to find creative ways to do math that don't involve a board, but as the math gets harder you can't really avoid it. Look at adding and subtracting multi-digit decimals, for example. I suppose you could find some convoluted way to teach it with pies or something, but there's no getting around the fact that most math you teach is going to be done on paper or a board. I mean, how many theoretical physicists do you see working out their equations with c-rods and tiny plastic bears? ;)

 

If only!    That would have been sooo cool!   I bought DD a tub of the those bears when she was about 1.   Yes, they were for her!  Why would you think otherwise?   

[Arcadia]

Khan has a private school in Mountain View

 

"Lower School (approximately K-5): $23,000

Middle School & Upper School (approximately 6-12): $25,000"

"Transcripts will be reviewed to ensure a level of academic proficiency that will allow students to be successful. Students are not evaluated based on test scores. Instead, we look for students who are excited to create something out of nothing, who thrive in an exploratory setting, and who are eager to lead, teach, and collaborate with their peers. "

http://khanlabschool.org/admissions-apply/

[Roadrunner]

4% actually seems to high to me. I can't imagine how a person can afford to live in Los Altos or LAH and not be able to afford to make a sack lunch.

We are not in Los Altos, but also in a very high cost area. In our district there are families who work on vineyards or as house help on estates that have housing for them. So that's how you might see super poor in very wealthy districts.