RR The Greeks: What do I need to add, if anything, for it to be a complete Ancient History program?

[Mosaicmind]

I purchased Roman Roads, The Greeks to use for history this year. My youngest son will start 9th grade August 1st and he wanted to do history chronologically and also has an interest in great books. I've looked at almost everything out there and had at once considered doing VP Omnibus but when he looked at both programs he picked The Greeks. History isn't my strongest subject, in fact I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to the subject. You could say that I will be learning right along with him.

 

I'm concerned that I'm missing something by using The Greeks, since I don't know much about history (yes, now I'm singing). What do I need to add, if anything? I've considered getting a Speivgold textbook to incorporate into our studies, but I'm not sure if we will need it or how I would do that. Here is a list of the books to go along with The Greeks dvds:

 

THE EPICS BOOK LIST:

– The Iliad

– The Odyssey

 

DRAMA ANDL LYRIC BOOK LIST:(Roman Roads Reader recommended for this unit)

– Aeschylus (The Oresteia)

– Sophocles (Oedipus the King and Oedipus at Colonus)

– Aristophanes (The Frogs)

– Eurpipides (The Medea and The Trojan Women)

– Sappho (various poems)

– Pindar (collection of Odes)

– Theocritus (Idyls I, VI, VII, and XI)

– Hesiod (Works and Days)

– Quintus of Smyrna (The Fall of Troy)

– Apollonius of Rhodes (The Argonautica)

 

THE HISTORIES BOOK LIST:

– The Landmark Herodotus: The Histories

– The Landmark Thucydides

– Xenophon: The Persian Expedition

 

THE PHILOSOPHERS BOOK LIST: (Roman Roads Reader available for this unit.)

 

– Plato: Six Greek Dialogues

– The Basic Works of Aristotle

 

That looks like a good group of books for him to read this year, but again, what am I missing, if anything? I want to cover ancient history but I'm not even sure what years ancient history covers. I'm assuming it's something like before Christ to his resurrection or maybe even before?? UGH!! You see how stupid I am!? I don't even know the years each segment of History encompasses. My hopes are that we will cover ancient, medieval, renaissance, and then modern. I plan to weave US History in with the last 2 years, not sure how yet, but I want to concentrate on this year for now.

 

So, I'd be forever in your debt if you could, HELP!!!

[chiguirre]

RR does a year of the Greeks, then Romans with a lot of early church history, then Medieval and then Modern. You won't be done with ancient history until you finish the Roman year.

[Amateur Actress]

If you wanted to do Ancient History in one year, I'd think you'd need to add Ancient Egypt and Ancient Rome, at least.

[Corraleno]

DS's reading list for Greek Literature covered almost that exact book list, which I listed as an English credit. That list really doesn't cover Greek history, let alone ancient history as a whole. The scope of Thucydides is very limited (Peloponnesian War); ditto Xenophon (Persian War, end of the Peloponnesian War). Herodotus includes tons of mythology and fantastical stories (giant ants the size of horses) as fact. They do not cover "the history of Greece," any more than reading a couple of primary source documents on the Civil War, written from a single perspective, would equal a full credit in "US History." For me, a history credit would require actual readings on the history of Greece — and even then I would only list it as Ancient Greek History, not Ancient History.

 

At the very least, a course in Ancient History would cover Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece (including Minoan and Mycenaean cultures, not just Classical Athens), and Rome, and that is a very Western-centric take. IMO "Ancient History" should also cover ancient civilizations of Asia Minor, Africa, the Indus Valley, East/SE Asia, and the Americas, so I'd be inclined to label a course that only includes Western cultures as Western Civ 1 rather than Ancient History.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Corraleno

[Mosaicmind]

Yes, I understand that, which is why I was asking for what I should add to it. I need texts, curriculum, book suggestions... I know I'm missing things, which is the point of this post. I want ancient history so what do I need to get? I have SWB's HOTAW, but I know even that's not enough. I mentioned getting a Spievgoel (so?) text but no one has said which one(s) I should get.

 

I hear you telling me what I'm missing, which I already knew but no one is giving me suggestions for how to fill in those holes.

[Corraleno]

ETA: I think the problem is that your OP made it seem like The Greeks was your history program, and you wanted to know if you needed to supplement that for ancient history. Asking "how do I fill the holes" is hard to answer, because you don't have an ancient history program, with just a few holes to fill; you have a Greek literature program and you need an entire ancient history course.

 

If you want world history (not just Western Civ), and you're thinking of using Spielvogel, and you want to spread it over 4 years, you can get Spielvogel's World History text and spread it over 4 years. It's self-divided into 4 parts, which roughly equate to Ancient, Medieval, Early Modern, and Modern. Throw in a couple of interesting trade books each year (or read SWB's books), and write some essays. There are tons of Teaching Company/Great Courses lectures, if you have access to those (library, audible.com, or buying them). Or are you asking for recommendations for an Ancient History curriculum that is already preplanned/scheduled for you?

Edited July 18, 2016 by Corraleno

[Mosaicmind]

I don't really want to invest a bunch of money in a program, I'd rather invest in a couple of good spines and add in some great books and other texts, that would all work together to give us a good grasp of ancient history. If we don't hit every single person, country, and so on I am ok with that. I've heard the Spievgoel texts are good but I know there have got to be others, so I can research to see what spines would work best for us.

 

Now, I cannot drive so don't even mention the library because I can't get there and it's so little anyways and when I could drive I didn't waste my time. Sorry for being so snippy but I'm having a serious, teary pain filled day and I've slept a total of 2hrs in the last 48hrs. Please bear with me. I'm feeling it's crunch time because i planned for us to start Aug. 1st and with zero support and no friends I tend to be a little impatient online. Just smack me.

[Guest]

Since we decided to use RR we're changing course and just using SWB History of the Ancient World instead of all the other texts I have for TOG history (unless I want to add something in here or there). We have the hard copy and Audible version so she can listen as we go. You probably would enjoy reading/listening yourself. It's not a dry boring text. I really enjoyed it.

 

ETA- maybe I'm outside the norm but I don't feel the need to drown dd in ancients to get it covered. Most kids in public school get a text book for world history. That's it unless they're in AP. They aren't looking at source docs or anything else unless it's included in the textbook- at least in my neck or the woods. So for me, HOTAW, a couple of GC lectures, RR and I'm considering us covered for year one of 4. Your transcript, your rules you know? Have you looked at any of SWBs audio lectures available for sale? She has one that is History through the Great Books or something similar- you might find that one beneficial.

Edited July 18, 2016 by texasmom33

[Corraleno]

Aw, honey I'm sorry.  :grouphug:

 

I'm on my way to the airport, but I will post some more suggestions when I get home tonight.

[Guest]

Here are the mp3's I was thinking of. 

 

https://peacehillpress.com/p/great-books-history-as-literature/

https://peacehillpress.com/p/what-is-history-how-and-why-should-i-teach-it-mp3/

 

Also if you wanted to add a little work to HoTAW, there is a student book that goes along with it : https://peacehillpress.com/p/study-teaching-guide-history-ancient-world/

 

That might let you add a little more where you want. Between that and what Corrleano suggested you would be covered using either Speig. or SWB. 

 

ETA: you would still have to fit US History in though somewhere, since you're wanting to cover that separately. 

Edited July 18, 2016 by texasmom33

[chiguirre]

Roman Roads is a complete program. It just covers Ancient Greek civilization in depth instead of a broader, shallower coverage of the entire ancient world like you would get in Spielvogel or even SWB's adult series. If that's what your student wants, RR is an excellent option. There is some coverage of history in all of the lectures so don't worry about just reading Herodotus and Thucycdides. IMHO, you'll be fine just doing RR on its own. If you want to buy Spielvogel as an extra resource, that's great, but it's not necessary and I wouldn't assign it in addition to RR. Their reading schedule is intense and you will swamp your student.

[Saddlemomma]

I'm going to be in the same boat as you for DD in 9th.  We are planning to do Ancient History using RR's The Greeks as well.  Since I usually design all of our curriculum, here is what I plan to do to help me flesh out the rest of Ancients. 

 

A  jumping off point would be to have a good history encyclopedia (like Kingfisher),  Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Civilizations, or the free online Ancient History Encyclopedia to give you a basic outline and information to work from.  I have Kingfisher, but I will also use the online option quite a bit. Build upon that with some interesting documentaries/lectures about specific civilizations.  Do you have access to The Great Courses through your library?  You may be able to get some good ancient history programs through them. We have Great Courses Plus, which will help us tremendously.  If you don't YouTube is your friend, and it's free!  Here are some examples of documentaries you could have DS watch:

• Sumerians
• Minoans
• The Persian Empire
• Assyrian Empire
• Ancient India
• China's Beginnings
• More ancient history docs...

Have DS take notes from the documentaries and then write an essay about that civilization, comparing/contrasting two different civilizations, or do a PowerPoint presentation for the family. Make sure he includes maps. Have him recreate ancient maps. These can become works of art.  You will also want to do modern maps to see how history has changed political geography.

 

Add in some age/grade appropriate non-Greek books to read such as:

• The Old Testament of the Bible
• Epic of Gilgamesh
• Bedford Anthology of World Lit - Vol. 1 (Ancient Lit)
• Ancient Egyptian Lit: An Anthology
• Epics of Early Civilization
• Ancient World Primary Source Documents

Use this site to help you find more ancient myths & epics: Myth Encyclopedia (Myths of the World)

 

HTH

 

 

[Mosaicmind]

Since we decided to use RR we're changing course and just using SWB History of the Ancient World instead of all the other texts I have for TOG history (unless I want to add something in here or there). We have the hard copy and Audible version so she can listen as we go. You probably would enjoy reading/listening yourself. It's not a dry boring text. I really enjoyed it.

 

ETA- maybe I'm outside the norm but I don't feel the need to drown dd in ancients to get it covered. Most kids in public school get a text book for world history. That's it unless they're in AP. They aren't looking at source docs or anything else unless it's included in the textbook- at least in my neck or the woods. So for me, HOTAW, a couple of GC lectures, RR and I'm considering us covered for year one of 4. Your transcript, your rules you know? Have you looked at any of SWBs audio lectures available for sale? She has one that is History through the Great Books or something similar- you might find that one beneficial.

Remember in another post when I said that you and I would probably need each other this year? Well, I was right! I've watched a couple of the videos cuz I got the dvds from someone for less than half. He does give quite a bit of History and it's really more than a lit course. I'm not looking to cover every single event and person but I want just a teeny bit more than just The Greeks.

 

I have SWB'S HOTAW, Kingfisher's History Encyclopedia,DK's History of the World, and the Timetables of History. I'm thinking of getting Speilvgoel's Western Civilization (I have the 7th ed of vol 1 & 2 in my Amazon cart) and a decent historical atlas. I'm getting out my WTM book right now and reading the chapter on history and English/Lit.

[Mosaicmind]

I'm going to be in the same boat as you for DD in 9th. We are planning to do Ancient History using RR's The Greeks as well. Since I usually design all of our curriculum, here is what I plan to do to help me flesh out the rest of Ancients.

 

A jumping off point would be to have a good history encyclopedia (like Kingfisher), Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Civilizations, or the free online Ancient History Encyclopedia to give you a basic outline and information to work from. I have Kingfisher, but I will also use the online option quite a bit. Build upon that with some interesting documentaries/lectures about specific civilizations. Do you have access to The Great Courses through your library? You may be able to get some good ancient history programs through them. We have Great Courses Plus, which will help us tremendously. If you don't YouTube is your friend, and it's free! Here are some examples of documentaries you could have DS watch:

• Sumerians
• Minoans
• The Persian Empire
• Assyrian Empire
• Ancient India
• China's Beginnings
• More ancient history docs...

Have DS take notes from the documentaries and then write an essay about that civilization, comparing/contrasting two different civilizations, or do a PowerPoint presentation for the family. Make sure he includes maps. Have him recreate ancient maps. These can become works of art. You will also want to do modern maps to see how history has changed political geography.

 

Add in some age/grade appropriate non-Greek books to read such as:

• The Old Testament of the Bible
• Epic of Gilgamesh
• Bedford Anthology of World Lit - Vol. 1 (Ancient Lit)
• Ancient Egyptian Lit: An Anthology
• Epics of Early Civilization
• Ancient World Primary Source Documents

Use this site to help you find more ancient myths & epics: Myth Encyclopedia (Myths of the World)

 

HTH

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

[JudoMom]

I added in these Great Courses lectures for The Greeks:

The Other Side of History:  Daily Life in the Ancient World (lectures 1-22)
Great Battles of the Ancient World (lectures 1-16)
The Long Shadow of the Ancient Greek World

And this reading:
Spielvogel's Western Civilization, 6th ed (chapters 1-4)
These Were The Greeks

 

I had them write a 5 paragraph essay on one history lecture/week.  

My oldest has done The Greeks & The Romans, my second has done The Greeks.  I decided to take the year off from RR so we could do American History, and I'm already looking forward to getting back to them next year :).

[Mosaicmind]

I finally got a little sleep this afternoon and I did what I should've done earlier, pray. I knew that I hadn't picked The Greeks of my own research, in fact i had never heard of Roman Roads Media until about a month ago when I was inquiring about Omnibus. The Lord knows better than I what will work with my boys so I knew this afternoon that I needed to seek Him for what to do, if anything.

 

I'm sticking with The Greeks. It does have more history than what you see from the website and it's not just a literature course. I got out my WTM book and looked up what books it lists for ancients and the spines and other resources it says are good to use. I happen to have every single spine it lists plus many of the books, which happen to be almost identical to the list of books used with The Greeks.

 

I'm not sure if I will use the student notebook that goes with The Greeks, which is free as a pdf download. I've considered doing the notebook method laid out in the WTM and using some of the student notebook pages. I did go ahead and purchase Spielvogel's Western Civilization Vol 1 and Vol 2, which cost me less than $15 on Amazon used. I had already purchased Norton's Anthology of World Literature A,B,C,D,E,&F last night on eBay for very cheap. I've gotten a Rand McNally Historical World Atlas so I'm not sure I want to purchase another one.

 

I think with all of that we should be set for this year.