Bright but not brilliant

[4KookieKids]

Sorry if this is old hat for some of you, but I'm trying to find out just how folks handle and encourage and support their kiddos who are bright but not brilliant. I've seen threads about DYS (had to google it!) that seem like are way over our level (reading through the brag thread made me realize that my kids are *definitely NOT* all that brilliant!! lol. it was very humbling - in a good way). So what sort of opportunities, activities, and/or programs have folks found valuable / good for kids who are bright but nowhere near the DYS level, outside of every day homeschooling and living life together.

 

I guess I'm looking for

1) Information on good activities/programs you've liked or found helpful

2) Why you would choose to pursue these things

3) How you choose to pursue these things (I've no idea how I'd even start setting up a "test" for a kid or finding other young kids who are interested in math, since we definitely feel like the odd ones out at our co-op)

4) What place "competition" has in helping a kiddo find a group of like minded kids

 

Currently, we do nothing special. We just "do school" an hour or so a day. We go hiking and take normal swim lessons (not advanced) and work on character things like doing chores cheerfully. My oldest recently realized that the level on his BA books don't match his actual grade and had an awkward conversation with some friends about it (awkward for me, at any rate). We talked briefly afterwards about not making a big deal out of that with people outside our family and moved on. And for the most part, I'm content with the direction we're going.

 

I just wonder sometimes (and maybe it's the inner me that loved competitions when *I* was younger) -- should we take a test (wouldn't it be fun to see where they actually land compared to others?)? Should we let him do a spelling bee? Math kangaroo (if we organized a site)? Are there cool programs he could be a part of where he doesn't feel weird because he's the only 6 yo who reads BA for fun? How can I make the most of this time while he's young and set him up for success in the future while still letting him have fun and be a kid now? etc. And DH says it's not worth it and let kids be kids, but he never had fun doing competitions or programs as a kid. Right now, I err on the side of just playing around and not pushing too hard. I just wonder sometimes what I or the kids may be missing.

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by deanna1ynne

[Dmmetler]

Well, first of all, a lot of us had kids who didn't look brilliant so much as just accelerated a bit at age 6, so don't be surprised if you look back in a couple of years and are a little surprised by this post in retrospect. I know there are ones that are similar from me at age 5-7!

 

Second, most things labeled "gifted" are perfect for the bright, school level GT kid. As are many summer camps and weekend enrichment programs for kids that aren't explicitly "gifted", but tend to attract smart kids. Things like computer camps, Camp Imagination, Mad Science homeschool and afterschool classes, stuff like that. The weekend programs that many colleges offer as well-some require good test scores, but usually only on a grade level test, some don't, but they tend to be filled with bright kids, some of whom will see Beast Academy and be jealous that their math book at school isn't so awesome, and some of which will also have BA in their backpacks. I've found that music also attracts a lot of bright kids, especially, again, the programs at colleges/universities.

 

On competitions, most of them for 6 yr olds are going to be fun and social. Math Kangaroo, the TriMathlon that mathnasium does, local spelling bees and science fairs, etc-all of those were fun and social and relatively low pressure at that age. DD also enjoyed the NME and ELE early on, especially when we could find other kids to do them with her. Be aware that at 6th grade, the competition pressure really ramps up, and by that point, usually the kids who win are those who focus heavily on that specific competition. DD dropped math competitions entirely this year except for CML, which is just taking an exam, because it wasn't "take the test and then we'll go have fun together", it was heavy competition. IN general, she's chosen to move away from competition just when the stakes are higher because it isn't fun for her anymore. But it definitely served a vital purpose for a few years there, and she didn't care if she won or lost. Just being in a room with other kids who enjoyed math or spelling was the incentive. And the t-shirts and other giveaways didn't hurt, either ;). 

 

 

[Jackie]

My child is only 6, and I don't have a clear idea of how gifted she is, so I don't know how much help I'll be. But I'll ramble on anyway.

 

Finding academics in a group setting hasn't worked at all for us so far; there's just not much around us. There is a math circle, but DD isn't old enough yet. Other options, like science summer camps, are also strictly age-based here; she finds them a lot of fun, but she certainly isn't learning much of anything. She has really wanted to take an online class, one that meets "live" with other kids. (DH has taught online classes for adults, so she has at least a little idea what the setup is, and was very excited that there were options for kids.) She is therefore trying out her first Athena's class this fall. I'm crossing my fingers that she enjoys it and maybe starts to find some community among other kids who like academics.

 

We've found better fits for some challenge in physical pursuits. When she started gymnastics and dance 2-3 years ago, I would have described her as having average motor skills, maybe a bit behind. In the last couple of years, she has become more and more determined to progress, and has made truly amazing improvements. I'm a little embarrassed to say that it took her being promoted a level in gymnastics much earlier than I expected before I finally realized just how much she had improved. It also means she is in a class where she is not anywhere near the best, and sees how hard some of the older girls are working, which seems to have only increased her own drive.

 

I thrived on competition as a child. My perfectionist child has serious issues with anxiety, and I'm therefore very hesitant to even mention competition as an option. She has told me bluntly that she has zero interest in ever doing gymnastics competitions. We might have done Math Kangaroo last year, but we were going to be traveling during the test date. MK seems like it would be low key enough. She has told me she wants to do a spelling bee, but there are no options for homeschoolers locally. If we find something she wants to do, and she is able to mentally approach it as fun instead of anxiety-provoking, I would let her do whatever she is interested in.

 

I would love to start a Destination Imagination team for her, but unfortunately our usual travel schedule precludes participation at this time. I think the combination of skills, plus working with other kids, would be right up her alley. And she is still young enough to participate in Rising Stars level, which would mean they can present without competing.

[JennW in SoCal]

From the perspective of a veteran homeschooler...

 

The best thing you can do for a 6 year old is to follow his lead. Pursue his interests and be mindful of his personality. If he seems to like and thrive in competitions, then by all means take tests and find competitions.  But otherwise go about your life in the manner you described.  "Nothing special" done within the family can be far, far richer than all those "special" gifted programs out there.  My now-adult sons will attest to that, as they have thanked me for all we did when they were young -- the books read, the hikes and trips to the zoo or museums, the endless discussions in the car or over dinner, the hours of free time they had to draw, build legos and just be creative in general. 

 

How did that simple life of "nothing special" set my kids up for success?  It is a cliched and simplistic answer, but it set them up to be life-long learners. By reading and discussing, by exploring and asking questions, by following their interests, my kids wound up with a broad and eclectic base of knowledge with their curiosities intact. And their college professors and job supervisors notice. At my youngest's college graduation, one of his professors commented on how he stood out in a freshman survey course. She said he was the one who asked questions and was clearly engaged, the one who got the highest score on the first midterm, and she was thrilled when he applied to be a research assistant that semester. He wound up graduating with honors from that department, carrying the highest gpa of all the majors. 

 

It seems there are so many more options now for homeschoolers than there were 15 years ago, and somehow it seems to be causing more stress among homeschool moms instead of making life easier. It seems to make it harder to stay focused on simply doing whatever best fits your child. Trust me. Your child isn't missing out, especially at the tender age of 6, by not doing x, y or z. 

 

 

[quark]

I was going to echo what pps have said but since I only have a few minutes I'm not going to make much sense.

 

Just one simple rule of thumb before I run...unless your child has learning disabilities, don't worry too much for now about labels. At 6, there's usually a natural curiosity that is just so fun to follow and nurture. Throw things at your child if you think that will help and stick to the ones that interest and excite him. And just because I am in the process of applying to colleges, write the ones he loves down in a journal but don't obsess. It is so lovely to look back on the things you've done and you never know how one of those things might be the cause of who he is at 12 or 15 or 18.

 

There will come a time when the labels might matter more but for now don't let it cloud your judgment in any way about your kiddo. Have fun. Make it challenging. But keep it real for your child and family.

[HomeAgain]

I have a bright child, not a brilliant one. :)  He's not the next Bobby Fischer. LOL In fact, we're still working on making sure his shirt is turned forward - and he's six!

 

I consider my job to not be teacher of "school" but to give him opportunities to figure out his passions and talents.  We tend to follow a semi-Charlotte Mason model because it is not "schooly"  We explore, we observe, we build, we work on basic skills.  I think the only workbook is math (MEP).  This child is competitive, but not ready to compete.  We find activities that he is excited about or wants to do, just like every other kid.  If he ever wants something more, he'll tell me.

[Arcadia]

I guess I'm looking for

1) Information on good activities/programs you've liked or found helpful

2) Why you would choose to pursue these things

3) How you choose to pursue these things (I've no idea how I'd even start setting up a "test" for a kid or finding other young kids who are interested in math, since we definitely feel like the odd ones out at our co-op)

4) What place "competition" has in helping a kiddo find a group of like minded kids.

1) whatever activities that expand our kids horizons is worth making the trip for our family. We went to almost every free event that our nearby federal refuge and state parks organized for kids. We went to events at all kinds of open houses for academic and non-academic. My kids have a blast and find out what they don't like

 

2) it's free or almost free other than gasoline and time. It shows our kids what is out there more than we are good at or subject experts of. We don't want to limit our kids to our knowledge base.

 

3) don't know. We have always purposely stayed in densely populated areas due to hubby and my need to be surrounded by people. Our kids are also interested in a wide variety of things so we can always find something.

 

4) for math, maybe RSM but some local kids are forced to go there. However unless your 6 year old eat sleep drink math, I won't be looking at math loving kids only. Some kids are also forced to do Math Kangaroo and Mathnasium Trimathlon. Some schools have GATE programs here so competition is cutthroat at a young age.

 

Destination Imagination and Odyssey of the Mind might fit your needs.

 

Competitions has made me a target in my school days by jealous schoolmates but most schoolmates are great. I grew up with mostly male cousins so it was easy dealing with all kinds of bullies. I enjoyed the fun of participating and leading a team made up of friends only. However I also remember the ugly side.

 

My DS11 told me he enjoyed his beginners tennis camp because the instructor treat them as pre-teens instead of young adults. He gets to be a 11 year old and have fun. Learning the basic strokes of tennis was a bonus.

 

ETA:

I enjoy brag threads like a "Daily Dish" but I am definately more T than F on meyer briggs. I think I am in a house of Ts because we swing factual in any crisis. If you are more F than T, maybe less social media might help.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Arcadia

[4KookieKids]

Thanks so much for all the responses. As is so often the case for me on these boards, the question I actually asked wasn't really what I needed to talk about, but I rambled enough the you all were able to figure out what I needed hear anyway, and I appreciate that.

 

I feel constantly torn between a comfortable and laid back homeschool, on the one hand, and feeling like they have so much potential that I want to help them realize, but I think part of that may be rooted in my own lack of opportunities as a child and wanting to really support my kids in their passions so they don't feel the same frustrations I did.

[4KookieKids]

I enjoy brag threads like a "Daily Dish" but I am definately more T than F on meyer briggs. I think I am in a house of Ts because we swing factual in any crisis. If you are more F than T, maybe less social media might help.

This is one of my single biggest struggles. I am way more F And recognize that more social media causes my significant anxiety over my own decisions, but find it so hard to actually let it go. It's helpful to be reminded of this from others, because I never associated F vs T as part of the struggle here.

[Eagle]

I feel constantly torn between a comfortable and laid back homeschool, on the one hand, and feeling like they have so much potential that I want to help them realize

I was torn between a laid back and strong academic homeschool too. I balance this by doing both, just not at the same time. This year we chose several focus areas together. For example, botany. We then did 4-6 weeks of fairly intense learning focused on that one topic, but spanning different subjects. When we decided we were done, we switched to relaxed mode for a few weeks.

 

"Relaxed" still involved schoolwork, but it was more organic. Ds chose what to do for math, we temporarily dropped spelling, he decided to spend more time on typing and computer science, and had much more free time to putter around building "inventions", making stop-motion movies, and reading. After a few weeks we chose another focus area and dove in to more vigorous schoolwork again.

 

Summer for us is more of the relaxed mode. Ds still does math daily (he chose Prodigy for the summer), does some practice of typing and piano, and decided to learn cursive. He helped build garden boxes and plant a veggie garden that he tends, he does weekly nature science, music theory and math groups, and is on a sports team. We are plenty busy, but he still has lots of unstructured time, and the freedom to choose his areas of interest.

[Arcadia]

I am way more F And recognize that more social media causes my significant anxiety over my own decisions, but find it so hard to actually let it go.

Are you comfortable delegating or do you have to DIY? What level of control are you comfortable with?

For example my kids wanted to learn soldering but hubby was busy. My soldering skills are get the job done but will not be neat level. I found a free soldering class at the library and my kids learned there. Task accomplished :)

My kids self teach piano. They can go a lot faster if they let me teach them but hubby and I are okay with their slower DIY pace.

 

As for missed opportunities, I can understand that as hubby feels that way about his education. I tend to be an optimistic realist. So I accept that there will be missed opportunities but I rather spend my time finding out more about the potential ones that pop up on my radar then to worry about those lost ones. I have seen relatives and friends with that emotional baggage from young so I have learnt to let go.

[lewelma]

I feel constantly torn between a comfortable and laid back homeschool, on the one hand, and feeling like they have so much potential that I want to help them realize, but I think part of that may be rooted in my own lack of opportunities as a child and wanting to really support my kids in their passions so they don't feel the same frustrations I did.

 

Since my IMO thread has been at the top of this board for 2 weeks, I just wanted to let you know that all I was doing for math for my ds at age 6 was playing shop. :001_huh:  We had no formal curriculum at all until 6 3/4. I'm kind of glad in hindsight that I was not on social media then, because I think that I would have been way too competitive, when actually what I gave him at age 6 was exactly what *he* needed - no pushing, no competitions, just love of learning.  Clearly, all kids are different, and some love competitions from a young age, but please don't feel *obligated* to do them just because your kid is bright.

 

For activities we did everything I could find that was cheap: homeschool swimming and play group, government sponsored violin lessons, and once a term some student discount play/concert/opera event. I also signed them up for an art class once a term for a week during our school holidays, which was my one big expense and gave me some much needed rest. 

 

There was NO WAY my older ds could have handled a competition at 6.  He couldn't even lose a board game back then without breaking down. His grandpa sat me down and gave me a lecture about how he needed to learn to lose!  I still remember at age just-3, we went to a birthday party where they had musical chairs.  It was so funny to watch these little clueless kids walking around the chairs to the music, and then when the music went off one kid looked around bewildered at the lack of a chair and happily took their lollipop.  It took my ds 4 turns before I found him at my side in the middle of the music.  He said and I quote verbatim "someone is going to lose this game and it's not going to be me!"  The music went off and the parents were quite confused to see that all the children had a chair.  :D

 

So I talk competitions now, but at age 6 for my ds -- no way.   :001_smile:

 

As for my younger boy, he is much more into collaboration than competition.  So he does things like soccer, drama productions, multi-sport.  Anything where you work *with* others rather than *against* them, is where you will find my little boy. As he gets older we will be looking towards leadership opportunities rather than competitions.  Different strokes for different folks. 

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited July 16, 2016 by lewelma

[Runningmom80]

Thanks so much for all the responses. As is so often the case for me on these boards, the question I actually asked wasn't really what I needed to talk about, but I rambled enough the you all were able to figure out what I needed hear anyway, and I appreciate that.

 

I feel constantly torn between a comfortable and laid back homeschool, on the one hand, and feeling like they have so much potential that I want to help them realize, but I think part of that may be rooted in my own lack of opportunities as a child and wanting to really support my kids in their passions so they don't feel the same frustrations I did.

 

Look up Melissa Wiley Tidal Schooling, and if you haven't watched any Julie Bogart periscopes, start with the Enchanted Home school. I promise these two things will help you focus in on what is important at this stage. 

 

This is coming from some one who has these same exact feelings on a regular basis. :grouphug:

[nobeatenpath]

I feel constantly torn between a comfortable and laid back homeschool, on the one hand, and feeling like they have so much potential that I want to help them realize, but I think part of that may be rooted in my own lack of opportunities as a child and wanting to really support my kids in their passions so they don't feel the same frustrations I did.

 

 

Not much to add other than this is me, still (my kid just turned 12). And my kid doesn't really have 'passions' other than playing computer games :lol: But the thing is while it is hard, the fact that you are even thinking about this stuff just goes to prove that you are doing okay at this parenting thing. 

[mathnerd]

 And DH says it's not worth it and let kids be kids, but he never had fun doing competitions or programs as a kid. Right now, I err on the side of just playing around and not pushing too hard. I just wonder sometimes what I or the kids may be missing.

I read an article from Richard Rusczyk long ago where he says that the most successful adult problem solvers were the kids who spent their elementary years reading and participating in creative play. He said that every time a child plays creatively, they encounter problems and find ways to creatively solve them - for example, one friend just left in the middle of a game, now, the child has to come up with a way to continue the game even though they have one less head count. Or, a child cannot find a particular piece of lego or block to complete a structure he is building - that is a problem that the child will try to solve in his own way. He said that years of creative play hones the brain to tackle creative academic problems easily later on. There is a lot of truth to that.

Every gifted child looks different - so, yours might not be any less brilliant than the ones that you are comparing with - maybe yours are not "outwardly" brilliant. My son can never be mistaken for a gifted child - actually, people think that he is the opposite of gifted because of his silly antics and constant motion and incessant physical play - the only way that we know the extent of his giftedness is because we tested.

At you kids age, just let them be creative and give them lots of books to read. They will find their interests eventually.

[wapiti]

I read an article from Richard Rusczyk long ago where he says that the most successful adult problem solvers were the kids who spent their elementary years reading and participating in creative play. 

 

This, for elementary especially.

 

I also wanted to point out, if it isn't somewhere above, that there are math competitions at the middle and high school levels that are not really about competing.  They are about problem solving and some exposure to math topics that get short shrift in the traditional sequence.  And, they are also about building a camaraderie within that culture.

[Arcadia]

Looking at your building toys thread in the general education sub forum, there is also something else to keep in mind. A child who is gifted at building is less likely to have people commenting that the child is gifted. It is kind of like a human perception thing.

For example, my boys and other boys building stuff regardless how intricate. People would look and compliment the kids and treat it as normal boy behavior. When my close age nieces and I build or repair stuff, people would be complimentary but imply we are tomboys. However when my brother sculptures, he gets praise as talented. So building is utilitarian but sculpturing is artistic talent :lol:

 

Both my kids are strong in computation and visual spatial skills. Their visual spatial skills are treated as ordinary which I don't mind. Their computation skills is what people notice and comment on and they know to "hold back" in classroom environments since public school K.

[Nan in Mass]

Mine (in their twenties now) were (are) just brightish and... odd... rather than brilliant. Oldest was obviously engineering minded from the time he was one. We fed him puzzles and building toys, especially legos, and tools, and made sure he had plenty of mentoring when it came to building/designing/problem solving. We entertained him in the car with why questions. Why do you think they build it that way? What is that for? Etc.. Middle one wasn,t an engineer. He was a climber. We did gymnastics. All three did competative gymnastics. Tons of money and a huge sacrifice of family time and academic time but worth it. Middle one was also interested in people and places. He wound up travelling a lot. Youngest was engineering minded but and the most academically oriented. We did all the engineering stuff with him and I had to figure out how to do more for school with him, since he learned to read early (not my idea lol), How to challenge him. I decided There were two ways to do "more" school - go wider or go deeper. I decided we,d go wider rather than deeper. We did drawing, music, chess, and foreign languages. He read his way through a giant stack of library books each week when he was in elementary school, fiction and nonfiction. He did science experiments and dyi projects and we did tons of natural history. He also travelled, but not at quite such a young age. All three did scouts, gymnastics, and piano. We sailed and camped. We got ham licenses. For us, going wide rather than deep worked very well. My sons controlled a lot of what we did. We just fed them opportunities. And I made absolutely sure their math was solid enough to get them through engineering school.

 

Nan

[sweetpea3829]

I have a bright child, not a brilliant one. :)  He's not the next Bobby Fischer. LOL In fact, we're still working on making sure his shirt is turned forward - and he's six!

 

I consider my job to not be teacher of "school" but to give him opportunities to figure out his passions and talents.  We tend to follow a semi-Charlotte Mason model because it is not "schooly"  We explore, we observe, we build, we work on basic skills.  I think the only workbook is math (MEP).  This child is competitive, but not ready to compete.  We find activities that he is excited about or wants to do, just like every other kid.  If he ever wants something more, he'll tell me.

 

My 9 1/2 yr old is bright (a solid Level 1, close to level 2) and he STILL occasionally puts a shirt on backwards.  And don't even get me started on the underwear.  

 

THERE'S A FREAKING POUCH IN THE FRONT!!!!  How does that even happen?  

[HomeAgain]

Oh, yes, the underwear, too!  I don't understand!  :confused1: How?  WHY????

[Jackie]

I'm happy my 6yo is finally consistently putting her clothes on right side out. I have no idea how they were put on inside out so often, when I put them in her drawer right side out! Backwards still happens, including with clothes with obvious pattern differences on the front and back!

[luuknam]

I think some kids just don't even care. I pointed out to my youngest the other day that he put on his shirt inside out after changing back into his normal clothes after taekwondo, and he just shrugged and didn't even attempt to fix it. I caught my oldest with his underwear on backwards the other day, but apparently it doesn't feel uncomfortable to him, so he probably doesn't know why he should care (neither do I if it doesn't bug him).

 

And youngest would put his shoes on his correct feet for over a year at 3-4yo, and now he's been putting them on the wrong feet for the past year since he got a different pair of shoes (and the next pair). I just wrote left and right on the soles the other day, because he does know what left and right are. I don't get how he's not uncomfortable, but oh well (he was complaining recently that his sneakers were too tight, and I told him to put them on the correct feet and he was fine for a few more weeks, and then he was complaining they were too tight no matter what feet they were on, so he's got new sneakers now).

 

I'm just glad that they bother to put on clothes... I've heard of kids the same age my youngest is who think clothes are optional.

[sweetpea3829]

I'm happy my 6yo is finally consistently putting her clothes on right side out. I have no idea how they were put on inside out so often, when I put them in her drawer right side out! Backwards still happens, including with clothes with obvious pattern differences on the front and back!

 

 

Ahem...my husband puts his underwear on inside out ALL OF THE TIME.  They're not backwards, fortunately...but inside out.  Almost always.  I point it out to him and he just plumb doesn't even care.  

 

He IS dyslexic though so there's that.

 

But 9 yr old DS?  Not dyslexic.  I just don't get it...lol.  

[Arcadia]

I'm happy my 6yo is finally consistently putting her clothes on right side out. I have no idea how they were put on inside out so often, when I put them in her drawer right side out!

Inside out can be more comfortable if there are inside seams. I had to look for seamless tops and socks when kids were younger.