The rise of patriarchy

[Laurie4b]

I worked for years as a waitress, many decades ago. 

 

Many male customers regarded us as one step up from prostitutes, and that was working in very nice restaurants. (And I am adding ftr, dressed in black pants, white shirt, and vest or really hideous waitress uniform at the country club. Horrible color, tunic top, skirt. Just in case anyone wonders...I know we're not supposed to, but people do.) 

 

Its sexism, not patriarchy and it was terrible then. 

Edited July 14, 2016 by Laurie4b

[luuknam]

Genuine people tend to stick to their perceived problem, whether it be as big as health department worthy issues or as small as waiting 3 minutes for a refill.  With something as small as smiles, while also praising the actual restaurant, I'm inclined to believe the reviewer/s truly believe in their complaint.

 

It's just unusual (to me) that someone would give a 1 or 2 star review over a server not being super friendly when everything else was good. Maybe if the server was outright rude, but from what I understand the reviewers aren't claiming that. Unless maybe the place advertises itself as being friendly. 

 

If I read a review like that, that would not stop me at all from going there.  I suspect it wouldn't stop many others either.

 

The problem is that many people won't get to the point of reading the reviews. If I'm trying to find a place to eat, I'm going to start by looking at the places that have lots of stars on their average review. It's just not a good use of my time to read the reviews for every restaurant in the area.

 

I wouldn't put some passive aggressive note in the menu like a PP suggested, but you could put a note along the lines of "please consider reviewing us online" if you want to balance out reviews.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I worked for years as a waitress, many decades ago. 

 

Many male customers regarded us as one step up from prostitutes, and that was working in very nice restaurants. (And I am adding ftr, dressed in black pants, white shirt, and vest or really hideous waitress uniform at the country club. Horrible color, tunic top, skirt. Just in case anyone wonders...I know we're not supposed to, but people do.) 

 

Its sexism, not patriarchy and it was terrible then. 

 

What I particularly hate are these places like Hooters.  There is a place now called Tilted Kilt.  The girls go around in a bikini type top and a short skirt.  Good grief.  And seriously, I'm not one to generally get hung up on this stuff.  I just think what the hell.  Why do they need half dressed girls to sell the food?

[marbel]

What I particularly hate are these places like Hooters.  There is a place now called Tilted Kilt.  The girls go around in a bikini type top and a short skirt.  Good grief.  And seriously, I'm not one to generally get hung up on this stuff.  I just think what the hell.  Why do they need half dressed girls to sell the food?

 

OK, when I first saw this, I assumed it was guys in kilts.  I did look it up. What the hell indeed.  I feel badly for anyone who works there, because either she has no other choice, or she likes using her body to help sell crappy food. 

 

No, I don't know that the food is bad, but I think it's a safe bet. 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

OK, when I first saw this, I assumed it was guys in kilts.  I did look it up. What the hell indeed.  I feel badly for anyone who works there, because either she has no other choice, or she likes using her body to help sell crappy food. 

 

No, I don't know that the food is bad, but I think it's a safe bet. 

 

 

They just opened one of these places up the street from me.  I thought oh yay a new restaurant.  So I looked it up and said never mind.  I don't even want to go there. 

[EmilyGF]

If you think this is one person posting over and over, can you find a way to encourage yelp reviews? How about a $5 discount for people who find you on yelp since people who look you up there are more likely to review you?

 

People do go to restaurants for companionship as well as food. If your 16-year-old servers can't handle that, you need to figure out how to aim for a different crowd or hire more help. Don't make excuses for your servers. Either train them or hire others. Sorry.

 

I worked as a server for 2 years in college and got frustrated when the restaurant decided its goal was speed over all. I remember a time I had two men who were having lunch before funeral. They wanted to talk (they ordered wine and all!) but the stupid cook kept on buzzing me.

Emily

[J-rap]

I don't think I'd jump to the conclusion that it's simply men wanting flirty young women as waitresses.  

 

When I'm at a restaurant, whether a nice sit-down place or a fast food place, I DO expect the server to be able to offer a friendly hello and a friendly thank you at the end.  I wouldn't expect a big smile throughout;  I do understand that as things get busy it often takes intense concentration, and some people aren't necessarily natural smilers.  But a friendly greeting at the beginning and end?  Yes, I think that's important whether it's a man or a woman.

 

If you got so many comments, I think I'd first watch my workers a little more closely to see how they might be coming off to customers, to make sure they aren't coming across as dismissive or uncaring.

 

Sure, I'd be bummed that people posted it for everyone to see, and especially if they were really unkind about it, but I'd rather deal with it then, if it were true.

 

If it's really not true, or if you can tell it's the same customer being aggressive and dumb, then of course I'd have more of a problem with that.

 

In ANY case, I'm sorry you had to deal with that!  I'm sure most people only post if they are disappointed with service, so you are more likely to see those comments.

[Anacharsis]

It may be that you are getting customers who are service-seekers; they go to restaurants not because of the food, but because being doted on by waitstaff makes them feel special. Those kind of customers are complicated, because while a customer who receives food that is not to their liking does not think that the cook is doing it as a personal insult, service-seekers who feel slighted often do take it personally.

 

Also, obviously, not all customers are service-seekers. To some, for instance, good service might be being able to talk with their table-mates without interruptions, yet never needing to go looking for someone to get something; doting waitstaff would be an annoyance, at best.

 

This can make figuring out the right approach tricky.

 

 

[LucyStoner]

Sexism, misogyny, patriarchy. These are not wholly separate things with wholly separate symptoms or wholly separate solutions. I don't think it's necessary to pick at Anne for her original post and choice of words.

 

Sexism towards women servers, especially young women servers, is endemic.

 

And let's face it, smile is honestly often code for flirt. I can't tell you the number of men I know who become convinced that the barista or waitress is in love with them because they always smile at them when they are there buying something. I've had multiple friends approached and even followed by male customers. Heck even my reasonably enlightened father was convinced that a 20 something waitress was interested in 70 year old him because she was smiling. Sometimes NOT smiling is an act of self defense for young women.

 

Tangentially related, I loved this bar owners letter about banning a man for harassing his employees:

 

http://www.jumblejoy.com/bar-owner-kicks-patron-sexist-comments

[flyingiguana]

I can bother me when a server is too friendly -- in a fake manner.  It bothers me no end when they're so obviously fishing for tips. And when they keep interrupting my dinner and conversation to fish some more.  And it bothers me if they're falsely friendly because they were told to be by the management.

 

There's an obvious difference between someone who is naturally friendly (that doesn't bother me at all) and when someone is faking  it.

 

So I would be leery of insisting your waitresses fake friendliness.  It might backfire for your business.  Not to mention just being an uncomfortable thing to extract from servers.

 

I wonder if the usefulness of Yelp is decreasing.  It's become more of a way of getting back at someone.  And Yelp seems happy to "feature" those reviews, while consigning actually helpful reviews to the dustbin of "not recommended".  I tend not to check Yelp anymore because of this.

[Joanne]

Anne, I am sorry this is happening to you!!

 

And, yes, the cultural expectations of behavior are still very gender scripted. Women, even in 2016, are expected to be a different level of "nice" and "cheerful" than men.

[Alicia64]

I read a lot of reviews for the job I do on a 1/4-time basis and -- from what I can tell -- many of the really awful reviews are from the competitors. They're trying to turn off your target market.

 

Trip Advisor allows the owner to respond and you should -- to each and every review both the positives and the negatives. The hotel general managers are great at responding appropriately and well if you need a model to follow. PM me for more info. I can send you some good ones.

 

Re: "When it is 95 outside and they are working on the patio in extreme heat and trying to keep track of lots of things it is hard for them to smile every second".  . .  I'm being sincere: I would put up a well made, yet funny sign saying something about how hot it is and how hard the kids are working.

 

But, again, I'm betting it's the competition writing these reviews. If it wasn't the girls not smiling, they'd find something else.

 

Alley

[6packofun]

Sexism, misogyny, patriarchy. These are not wholly separate things with wholly separate symptoms or wholly separate solutions. I don't think it's necessary to pick at Anne for her original post and choice of words.

 

Really? I happen to think words matter, particularly when used towards other people.  And one way in which they matter is when a term gets thrown around at every single, tiny instance of human stupidity in order to label that person's stupidity (because of course, we MUST) regardless of accuracy, that word loses POWER to describe what it actually IS.

 

I wonder at what point women will start urging other women to not take jobs at restaurants like Hooters in order to have a little dignity.  But it will never happen because there will always be women on one side saying that women should be able to flaunt/sell/make a commodity of their bodies or else they're not equal (or they're being oppressed) and there will always be women who scream patriarchy/sexism/misogyny if any man visits those establishments (for reasons that women can always seem to divine sans any input from the man) and doesn't behave well. Notice many women do and say both.

 

Obviously there are men (and women) out there who treat female servers as objects. But can't we take each person on their own merits or lack thereof and slow down with the need to label every behavior and make perpetual victims in every single situation?  I cringe at the thought that the world and especially other women are going to continually try to convince my daughters that they are victims in some way and that their all of their free will choices are foisted upon them by society.  Doesn't this do the opposite of making strong women??

[LucyStoner]

You don't think there are women who urge other women not to work at places like Hooters?

 

How is calling out sexist behavior and gendered expectations making anyone a "perpetual victim"? It's not.

[goldberry]

 

Sexism towards women servers, especially young women servers, is endemic.

 

And let's face it, smile is honestly often code for flirt. 

 

:iagree:  Women get double slammed, I think, because there is already a tendency to think of servers as somehow not necessary to treat with dignity, and then the woman thing on top of it.

 

 

Regarding the smiling, DD recently had a young man pursue her, and after her being very direct that she was not interested, he accused her of leading him on because she talked to him and smiled at him.   :confused:

[goldberry]

 I cringe at the thought that the world and especially other women are going to continually try to convince my daughters that they are victims in some way and that their all of their free will choices are foisted upon them by society. 

 

Hopefully your daughters will never be in a position where they have to stay at a job where they are mistreated because they need the money to pay for their apartment or groceries.  Some have plenty of "free will choices" and others most certainly do not.

[SquirrellyMama]

:iagree:  Women get double slammed, I think, because there is already a tendency to think of servers as somehow not necessary to treat with dignity, and then the woman thing on top of it.

 

 

Regarding the smiling, DD recently had a young man pursue her, and after her being very direct that she was not interested, he accused her of leading him on because she talked to him and smiled at him.   :confused:

 

:grouphug: to your daughter. I got accused of this same thing in high school. It hurts.

 

Kelly

 

[hornblower]

 

Regarding the smiling, DD recently had a young man pursue her, and after her being very direct that she was not interested, he accused her of leading him on because she talked to him and smiled at him. :confused:

Yup. There's no winning solution in some areas/social circles. You smile they can continue to pressure, pursue, talk, lean in the woman's space, ask for phone numbers etc. You don't, you can get called names, obscenities, threats.

[LucyStoner]

Yup. There's no winning solution in some areas/social circles. You smile they can continue to pressure, pursue, talk, lean in the woman's space, ask for phone numbers etc. You don't, you can get called names, obscenities, threats.

I personally recall one young man who was interested in me to point that he took common courtesy to be a come on. Heck, he took neutral behavior and even me ignoring him to be a sign it was ok to continue to (aggressively) pursue me. He followed me home 2 busses in the wrong direction for his home and I had to shake him off because I felt totally in comfortable walking into my own home. Because I just knew letting him have my address was a baaaaad idea. I'm a pretty nice person IRL. I literally had to be rude bordering on nasty to him everyday to get him to leave me alone. If I was any warmer than rude, he'd revert to thinking I was in love with him. This continued for years. Sometimes I feel badly about how I treated him. See how that works? He grabbed me, kissed me as I was pushing him off me and followed me all the way home and more AND I, 15+ years later sometimes feel badly for glaring at him and saying unkind things like "get out of my face" to him. Our culture sucks.

Edited July 17, 2016 by LucyStoner