college

[Sebastian (a lady)]

One more course description example.  This is what I pulled together for a Fine Arts Survey.  This wasn't a course that we spent much time on, but when I listed everything we'd done over a year it sounded pretty good.  Something like this might work for your English or other Humanities credits.

 

Fine Arts Survey:  This one year high school level course provides an introduction to art and music.  This course combines art history, appreciation, and analysis with a goal of equipping the student for lifelong enjoyment of art and music forms.  Assessment includes analytical papers.  Field trips include The Getty Villa (Los Angeles), The World of Wearable Art exhibit at The Bishop Museum (Honolulu), Hawaii Opera Theatre's performance of Britten's A Midsummer Night's Dream, and Hawaii Opera Theatre's performance of Verdi's Il Travatore.  Course incorporated online workshops on Greek architecture and Greek sculpture.

Textbooks:

Janson, Anthony F.  A History of Art for Young People.

Reynolds, Carol.  Exploring America's Musical Heritage.

Strickland, Carol.  The Annotated Mona Lisa.

Workshops:

Perfect Proportion:  Greek Sculpture.  The Lukeion Project.

Right Ratio:  Greek Architecture.  The Lukeion Project.

 

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Just an aside on the topic of English credits.  In the US, there are courses that are very literature focused, with reading, analysis and writing.  But there are also courses that focus on non-fiction and essay techniques.  Just as an example, there are two different AP English courses.  AP English Lit is focused on fiction and poetry.  AP English Language focuses on rhetoric usually as it is used in essays and non-fiction writing.

 

So the reading that he does in The Economist and other magazines could be something you form an English credit around.  You could simply call it English and describe it in the course descriptions.  Or you could give it a more descriptive title like Rhetoric or Scientific Writing or The Art of the Essay.  

 

 

[vonfirmath]

I think the main problem, quark, is that I can't just put AP on the back end of these classes, because that is what a second course in topic is basically called in the US.

 

Not necessarily. I took 2 years of Chemistry in HS because I enjoyed it (And I enjoyed the way the teacher taught it). Neither were AP. (Possibly the second was taught at the AP level? I did not take the test so it was just Chemistry II for me) They were Chemistry I and Chemistry II.

Edited July 12, 2016 by vonfirmath

[amy58103]

You say your son is enrolled in a correspondence school.  Will he "graduate" from this school?  Do they award some kind of diploma/transcript?  If yes, then why go through the trouble of putting together a "homeschool" application?

 

For instance, from MIT's admission website:  

 

If you attended high school outside of the United States, your grades and subjects of study might have been very different than those of most American students. However, this will not negatively impact your application to MIT. 

 

MIT Admissions Counselors are trained to understand the educational system in your part of the world. We do not try to convert your grades to the American system, or to find other sorts of equivalence. You will not be competing against your classmates or students in other parts of the world; we do not have caps or quotas for countries. We consider each student as an individual as they proceed through our process.

 

I don't mean to diminish the extra work you have done in your homeschool !!!  Just trying to see a different way to simplify things for you.  I would think most top universities are familiar with the education requirements from other countries and will not turn away your son just because he doesn't have four years of English on his transcript, etc.  He would still have his essays, "resume" (at least with MIT ... that's the only one I looked at), and letters of recommendation to describe his extraordinary accomplishments and/or mention the additional studies he did beyond his country's graduation requirements.

[Laura Corin]

You don't need to package for the UK - just apply with the NZ exams.

 

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/international-students/international-qualifications?wssl=1

[lewelma]

Oh thank you so much, guys!  So much to think about.  And thanks for the example documents, Sebastian -- they are incredibly helpful.  Do the schools really want that much detail?  Are they actually going to read it?   I would never have thought to put field trips in the description of his music.  Because DS takes music with the concert master of the NZSO, he has been allowed to observe the actual rehearsals, not 'dress rehearsals'.  He gets $10 tickets to the NZSO, the NZSQ, and the opera.  So we go, a lot. 

 

 

You say your son is enrolled in a correspondence school.  Will he "graduate" from this school?  Do they award some kind of diploma/transcript?  If yes, then why go through the trouble of putting together a "homeschool" application?

 

For instance, from MIT's admission website:  

 

 

I don't mean to diminish the extra work you have done in your homeschool !!!  Just trying to see a different way to simplify things for you.  I would think most top universities are familiar with the education requirements from other countries and will not turn away your son just because he doesn't have four years of English on his transcript, etc.  He would still have his essays, "resume" (at least with MIT ... that's the only one I looked at), and letters of recommendation to describe his extraordinary accomplishments and/or mention the additional studies he did beyond his country's graduation requirements.

 

 

I definitely hear what you are saying, and I've kind of thought about this a little bit before.  The main reason I thought a homeschool transcript would be a better idea is because we are really only using the correspondence school for the exams required to get into University here.  It is virtually impossible for a homeschooler to take all the exams/assessments required for graduation through a school.  I know, I've looked.  And I've looked hard.  We finally settled on the Correspondence school, but I did get in *writing* that they would stay out of our way, and would not require ds to finish booklets or send in assignments in order to have the privilege of taking the exams -- he could self study at home with any resources I chose.  This required me to go to the top.

 

So yes, ds will have the NZ equivalent of a high school diploma.  And will have (if we ask for it) a *national* class rank to the percent.  So top 1%.  The main problem is that he is not interested in taking the "scholarship" exams which are a way of separating out the students even further.  This has to do with needing to take them all in the same year, and he is spreading all his 12th grade exams out so that he can have enough time to be studying maths and IMO stuff. So basically, he cannot both do what he loves *and* shine in the school system.  They are just incompatible because you just can't do everything.  So the IMO team member last year who got into harvard, Got 6 outstanding scholarship which puts him in the top 20 kids in the country.  DS just won't be able to do that because he does things his way.  For example, he could read an analyse Harry Potter for 11th grade English, but he reads and analyses War and Peace. He often does *more* than is required for the school assessment, so that leaves him less time to focus on the scholarship exams.  He is just not maximizing his studies for that super high performance that is offered to school kids through school exams.  He studies, goals, and interests just don't align with the school system's well enough for him to really stand out.  So he can get into the top 1%, but not further. 

 

So, all the music and math he does will not be documented in any way in his high school transcript.  In fact, even though ds will have five 200 level math courses from the local university by the end of 12th grade, the national qualifications authority would not have given him a high school diploma because he did not have the math. He *had* to go back and take the high school exams.  The school system sees things in only one way, through the national school exams. Period.  In addition, he is self studying at home history, econ, philosophy, current events, and biology.  They will not be on his school transcript.  So with only his school transcript, he looks like he is missing an entire section of the standard USA curriculum.   

 

So how does he shine?  I think it is through a homeschool application. Yes?

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[lewelma]

You don't need to package for the UK - just apply with the NZ exams.

 

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/international-students/international-qualifications?wssl=1

 

Laura, I'm sure that is true for the UK, but see my previous post for the USA.  I'm not convinced he can shine enough in the USA without a homeschool transcript.

[lewelma]

I was more wondering if there was something else he'd done that you'd overlooked.

 

I will go back through my records.  But he is only half way through 10th grade, so if 8th grade doesn't count, I'm not sure there is something I've forgotten.  Basically we finished up history for good in 8th grade.  DS felt he knew enough and didn't want to do more.  And I said OK.  He is just so busy.  But we can do more in the next 2 years.  We are going to visit Vietnam in December for two weeks, so could do a family study on it's history and culture.  Might look a bit goofy to have a quarter credit in Vietnam history and culture coming from NZ, but we could do it.  :001_smile:

 

I also thought that if I get ds to read the Iliad and the Odyssey, which he was interested in doing anyway, and then we watch the Great Courses lecture series on them, I could bump that 1/2 credit of Ancient Greece History up to a full credit. I'd have to count hours, but given how long the Fangle's translations are, I think it would be enough.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[amy58103]

JMO, but the transcript is the least "shiny" part of the application.  Its a simple one-page document that shows that the student met the requirements for highschool (and for a top tier school, took the most advanced courses offered at their school).  That's why I'm saying consider just going with the transcript from his correspondence school.   

 

Where applicants really shine, is in their essays, letters of recommendation, and supplemental materials ... all of which you would submit with a "normal" international transcript OR a homeschool transcript.    

 

For instance, in his essay, he can describe why he enrolled in the correspondence school (eg. so he could focus on math/music and instead of spending his remaining time preparing for the extra scholarship exams, he could study history, econ, philosophy, current events, biology on his own terms).  He could also take SAT II subject tests as "proof" he studied additional topics (i.e. biology, literature, maybe world history?)  Most universities also let you submit supplemental items, such as a resume that details all of his music training/performances, his math competitions, etc.  He could also submit a video of himself performing a music solo.  So, there are lots of places for him to "shine" outside of the transcript. 

 

... Not trying to argue with you, just providing a different view point  :tongue_smilie:

[lewelma]

 

 

... Not trying to argue with you, just providing a different view point  :tongue_smilie:

 

I really appreciate it.  I do think, however, that the NZ transcript might as Regentrude said throw the admissions people into a fit of despair.  There are no classes listed, only units passed.  So each class will have 2-7 units all worth different credit, with no indication of a full class being completed.  To get a course 'endorsed with excellence' you need to earn 14 excellence credits in a school year, but because ds entered the correspondence school half way through the year, all of his courses are off kilter by 6 months, so there will be no 'course endorsement'.  Instead, ds is going for 'NCEA level 3 certificate endorsed with excellence' which requires 50 excellence level credits.  

 

All this is to say that without an American transcript, I'm not sure the admissions people will have a clue what they are looking at.  DS will have transcripts from the NZ qualifications board, the local university, the London school for music, the associated board for the Royal schools of music, AoPS, and classes done at home.  I think a summary sheet of some sort is a must.  But it sounds like applying as a homeschool applicant is somehow different.  Are you saying I could make a summary sheet to clarify what he did but not apply as a homeschool candidate? 

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On the course descriptions. I didn't expect that they would read each entry. I suspect that since the last math classes were dual enrolled at a CC that no one would bother reading the earlier descriptions.

 

I did expect that some readers would skim the booklists or read a couple descriptions of more unusual courses. So Japan Studies probably gets more attention than algebra.

 

I include a description of each course for symmetry and because I can't know what will catch the interest of each reader.

 

It sounds like you have an interesting and accomplished kid. Are you also considering high ranked but non elite schools? It's much harder to be accepted to HYP than to a Purdue or Alabama or Rochester.

Will there be higher tuition costs for international students that outweigh the savings of avoiding high costs in Aukland?

Does going overseas create a networking deficit for future work or studies in NZ?

[lewelma]

It sounds like you have an interesting and accomplished kid. Are you also considering high ranked but non elite schools? It's much harder to be accepted to HYP than to a Purdue or Alabama or Rochester.

Will there be higher tuition costs for international students that outweigh the savings of avoiding high costs in Aukland?

Does going overseas create a networking deficit for future work or studies in NZ?

 

This is my fear.  But ds told me just last week that he wasn't sure that he would be able to work in NZ, and I think he is right.  sigh.  We don't have any high level math anything here.  No Machine learning, no cryptography, etc.  Am I allowed to be selfish and find a way for him to stay?  Will he live far from me as I have lived far from my parents for my entire adult life?  It makes me heart sick.  My thoughts were just that for a little bit more money (which we have to spend if we thought it was worth it), he could go to MIT or Harvard and get a better education and open more doors in the field he is interested in.  We have also looked into the honors program at ANU in Australia which is top 20 internationally. Right now, ds is saying that he will do his undergrad at Auckland and his grad work overseas, which I think is a good plan.  It would give him connections to NZ so he might stay.  But realistically, I'm not sure he can stay.  :crying:  So I'm trying to put my big girl pants on and consider ALL the options.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

This is my fear.  But ds told me just last week that he wasn't sure that he would be able to work in NZ, and I think he is right.  sigh.  We don't have any high level math anything here.  No Machine learning, no cryptography, etc.  Am I allowed to be selfish and find a way for him to stay?  Will he live far from me as I have lived far from my parents for my entire adult life?  It makes me heart sick.  My thoughts were just that for a little bit more money (which we have to spend if we thought it was worth it), he could go to MIT or Harvard and get a better education and open more doors in the field he is interested in.  We have also looked into the honors program at ANU in Australia which is top 20 internationally. Right now, ds is saying that he will do his undergrad at Auckland and his grad work overseas, which I think is a good plan.  It would give him connections to NZ so he might stay.  But realistically, I'm not sure he can stay.  :crying:  So I'm trying to put my big girl pants on and consider ALL the options.

 

:grouphug:

 

I so understand the mixed emotions about seeing a kiddo ready to leave the nest.  We have a little bit of a countdown here.  Just a few more weeks at home.  Only two more weekends together with the whole family.  Once ds1 goes, he will only come home a couple times a year.  

 

I am caught between being so proud of what my kids are growing into and wanting to turn back the clock for read alouds on the couch.