college

[regentrude]

 

Music

Music Theory 0.5

Music Performance 1 (grade through both NZ national system and ABRSM) how do I deal with this?

Music Performance 1  (grade through both NZ national system and ABRSM)

Music Performance (Trinity College of London) 1

Music Performance (LRSM through ABRSM) 1

 

 

Are these classes? Or examinations?

Any class I would list, but otherwise save music for extracurricular

[lewelma]

Oh, I just added the science details in previous post while you were writing. 

[regentrude]

Another thing: he has oodles of math credits, so I would NOT bring up everything from the middle grades. I'd list algebra1+2 and geo so the box checkers can check their boxes, but not mention NT, C&P or olympiad geometry.

His high school math credits make it abundantly clear that this is a math whiz. The rest is unnecessary.

Edited July 12, 2016 by regentrude

[lewelma]

Regentrude, I edited the science titles on post 49 based on your suggestions.  Technically in the NZ system, ds has done 1.5 credits worth of 12th grade assessments since he will be working through everything that is available.  I could just ditch the fact that he had to do the 11th grade material also.

 

The combinatorics and Number theory and Geometry are the intermediate classes taken at AoPS, so would be on their transcript (assuming they have one, and I think they do)

 

I can dump world history, but he is not likely to do more humanities so will fall short.  If he is completing his high school diploma in 11th grade, technically the work he did in 8th grade is actually 9th grade.  So kind of a mess. 

 

I can give him an A in mandarin if you are just saying give him a grade.  But the work he puts into that class falls far short of the A that he earned in Physics.

 

Music. This is a core class for him at the Correspondence School.  In fact, the only way he could get into the correspondence school was to fall under the 'elite musician' category.  Meaning that a member of THE national body representing his art said that he was one of the top students in the country. You can't just join the correspondence school in NZ like you do in America. You have to have a *reason*. And he couldn't get it for his math skill!

 

So he is taking 'classes' at the correspondence school, and will likely try for the scholarship program there in his 12th grade year to earn money for university if he goes here.  'Classes' at the correspondence school just mean that you are working your way through the assessments, including performance, music theory, composition, etc. 

 

He has a 2 hour string group class and a 1 hour trio class.  These classes are taught by members of *the* NZ symphony orchestra.  His private tutor is the Concert Master of *the* NZ symphony orchestra. He will be auditioning for the City youth orchestra, which is highly competitive, for ages 15-25, at the age of 15.

 

He has been working his way through the ABRSM exams, and 2 years in a row scored the top mark in the city for any instrument for any grade.  These exams are moderated and they send people from the UK to grade them.  His LRSM will cost 1200 just for the examiner to fly to NZ to grade him. 

 

People keep saying not to make it a class, but if he were not a mathematician, he would be a musician.

 

This stuff is real.  Not just sitting around taking some lessons and practicing a bit.

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[quark]

This stuff is real.  Not just sitting around taking some lessons and practicing a bit.

 

Of course!

 

The essays are a great vehicle for him to use to explain all of this. So some of the explaining like how the NZ system works and how your homeschool works goes into the school profile document. BUT all of the other stuff like his IMO and WOOT experiences, how he might have been a musician (or however he wants to phrase it) etc. would make great topics for the essay.

 

For DS, he didn't realize how much he has done and what all he can talk about in the essays so we sat together and did some brainstorming over a shared Google Doc. These are things that (to me) would sound corny on the school profile but as essays? Me thinks they would be golden.

[lewelma]

Oh goodness, I have not even thought about an essay or school profile.   :eek:   I don't even know if he wants to consider this, last I heard he was ok with Auckland.  But honestly, I'm looking at the cost of going to Auckland with $20K just in living expenses as Auckland has just topped the world's list as the city with the biggest housing bubble, and I'm thinking that for the same cost, we could send him somewhere with more kids like him.  But he has to want it, and I am certainly NOT asking him this month.  eeek.  I told him last night when he was feeling just so exhausted, to dream of coming home, and sleeping in, and eating pizza, and playing his new video game ALL DAY LONG.  Too bad we are in the middle of the school year, and his *first* university class started yesterday.  :001_huh:

 

The main problem with Regentrude's question "is ds taking a music *class* or just *exams*" is that in NZ classes don't count for anything.  It is *only* the exam.  So on his course list right now at the correspondence school he has:

 

English 11th grade

English 12th grade

Physics 12th grade

Chemistry 11th grade

Chemistry 12th grade

Music 11th grade

Music 12th grade.

 

Because he is taking assessments at different levels in these courses.  But none of that will show up on a school transcript.  All that will show up is:  (2 is 11th grade, 3 is 12th grade exams)

 

Chem 2.1, 4 credit, Grade E. Carry out quantitative analysis

Chem 3.4, 5 credits, Grade E. Demonstrate understanding of the thermochemical principles and the properties of particles and substances

Chem 3.6, 5 credits, Grade E. Demonstrate understanding of equilibrium principles in aqueous systems

Chem 3.7, 3 credits,  Grade E. Demonstrate understanding of oxidation-reduction processes

 

 

He has the same type of list at multiple levels in all his subjects.  In the end, it will be listed by level and subject but not by the year completed I don't think.

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[lewelma]

I might also add that in NZ like the UK, there are NO required courses.  So ds is not taking any history/humanities/social sciences formally.  This is totally allowed.  I can say that he has done some of this kind of study because he has and he is homeschooled, but really many international students would not have met all the US university requirements, but yet they still get in. And they can't argue they are homeschooled so have made a homeschool class count.  So in all honesty, music is ds's real class and history is just a hobby, NOT the other way around. Do I really want to sell it in a way that is not the reality that I see?

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[regentrude]

Music. This is a core class for him at the Correspondence School.  In fact, the only way he could get into the correspondence school was to fall under the 'elite musician' category.  Meaning that a member of THE national body representing his art said that he was one of the top students in the country. You can't just join the correspondence school in NZ like you do in America. You have to have a *reason*. And he couldn't get it for his math skill!

 

So he is taking 'classes' at the correspondence school, and will likely try for the scholarship program there in his 12th grade year to earn money for university if he goes here.  'Classes' at the correspondence school just mean that you are working your way through the assessments, including performance, music theory, composition, etc. 

 

He has a 2 hour string group class and a 1 hour trio class.  These classes are taught by members of *the* NZ symphony orchestra.  His private tutor is the Concert Master of *the* NZ symphony orchestra. He will be auditioning for the City youth orchestra, which is highly competitive, for ages 15-25, at the age of 15.

 

He has been working his way through the ABRSM exams, and 2 years in a row scored the top mark in the city for any instrument for any grade.  These exams are moderated and they send people from the UK to grade them.  His LRSM will cost 1200 just for the examiner to fly to NZ to grade him. 

 

People keep saying not to make it a class, but if he were not a mathematician, he would be a musician.

 

This stuff is real.  Not just sitting around taking some lessons and practicing a bit.

 

This is what I would do: I would give him a credit for music for each year, and the make a BIG deal out of the ensembles and top notch instruction and exams in the extracurriculars.

On the transcript, the music credits will not stand out; they will be at the bottom, after the required core academics, and I doubt admissions officials are trained to scrutinize those. 

It is precisely because this is "real" that it should shine and have a place where it can stand out. In my personal opinion, that would be in the extracurriular section.

You would also address this in detail in the school profile and your guidance counselor letter, and he can incorporate it in the essays if he chooses. That way I think it will receive the profile it deserves, instead of just another few credits. All the info you just elaborated on above, about the top marks in exams, the high profile of the classes, would be completely lost without extra explanation - the transcript would show none of this background info.

Edited July 12, 2016 by regentrude

[ebunny]

/snip

 

The main problem with Regentrude's question "is ds taking a music *class* or just *exams*" is that in NZ classes don't count for anything.  It is *only* the exam.  So on his course list right now at the correspondence school he has:

 

\snip

 

I agree. It's the same here in India. It's the grade not the number of classes because music exams are taken as a representation of the skill/ability and not the class hours. Some students take 2 years and over 200 classes to clear a grade, and some do it in 40.

 

Having said that, instead of looking at it as 'if he were not a mathematician then he would have been a musician'; maybe it could be presented in a way that showed how his (music) training prepared him for advanced math, how music and math are very similar etc.

[regentrude]

I might also add that in NZ like the UK, there are NO required courses.  So ds is not taking any history/humanities/social sciences formally.  This is totally allowed.  I can say that he has done some of this kind of study because he has and he is homeschooled, but really many international students would not have met all the US university requirements, but yet they still get in. And they can't argue they are homeschooled so have made a homeschool class count.  So in all honesty, music is ds's real class and history is just a hobby, NOT the other way around. Do I really want to sell it in a way that is not the reality that I see?

 

Ask the college.

The "they do get in without satisfying the minimum requirements" - does that include colleges that reject 94% of their applicants?

[regentrude]

Because he is taking assessments at different levels in these courses.  But none of that will show up on a school transcript.  All that will show up is:  (2 is 11th grade, 3 is 12th grade exams)

 

Chem 2.1, 4 credit, Grade E. Carry out quantitative analysis

Chem 3.4, 5 credits, Grade E. Demonstrate understanding of the thermochemical principles and the properties of particles and substances

Chem 3.6, 5 credits, Grade E. Demonstrate understanding of equilibrium principles in aqueous systems

Chem 3.7, 3 credits,  Grade E. Demonstrate understanding of oxidation-reduction processes

 

 

He has the same type of list at multiple levels in all his subjects.  In the end, it will be listed by level and subject but not by the year completed I don't think.

 

The admissions people will have a fit of despair when they get handed this - unless you make it easy for them and explain in the school profile what it all means. 

This is even more of a reason to make the transcript as easy to understand as possible. Translate to US system to the best of your ability.

[quark]

I might also add that in NZ like the UK, there are NO required courses.  So ds is not taking any history/humanities/social sciences formally.  This is totally allowed.  I can say that he has done some of this kind of study because he has and he is homeschooled, but really many international students would not have met all the US university requirements, but yet they still get in. And they can't argue they are homeschooled so have made a homeschool class count.  So in all honesty, music is ds's real class and history is just a hobby, NOT the other way around. Do I really want to sell it in a way that is not the reality that I see?

 

The way I see it is that you did history in your home and therefore, you did it in your homeschool. Just list whatever was done as self study (as you've already done I think). Why would it not be reality just because it was done as a hobby? I might be misunderstanding what you are saying. E.g. for my DS, literature is a hobby. I didn't plan out a proper course of study. It just so happened that (for example) he read a lot of British Literature in his 9th grade year, we discussed it till the cows came home, he analyzed some of the novels, we listened to Great Course lectures etc. All of this was done in a very laid back way, mostly in the car or on the way to somewhere or at night before bed. Thankfully I recorded everything he read and we used as supplements. Voila, come transcripting time, when I did a rough calculation, it was definitely worth a credit (but I have it listed as 0.5 for now because I am not sure if I should award a full credit for something where he didn't write a lot and also award that same full credit for something else where he did).

 

Yes, in a public school, a student who read a lot as a hobby might not have that count in the transcript. But I don't understand why we shouldn't be able to do that when the effort, love of learning, motivation, and maturity of analysis etc. was there.

[lewelma]

Very good point, Regentrude.  We can just spend more time doing philosophy over the next 2 years and make it a full class and dump the world history.  I still think he is a half credit shy.  Perhaps some media studies or film analysis?  We watch a lot of films over here.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[lewelma]

So he reads the Economist, Scientific American, and National Geographic cover to cover and has for 2 years, and I'm sure he will for 2 more.  And we discuss a lot.  How can I count that?  He has written papers for English class on ISIS, arguing for nuclear power, a research paper on the societal issues associated with genetic engineering.  Plus philosophical papers on Borges, Hemingway, Dostoevsky, and Dickinson.  I kind of consider those his English credits, but perhaps because he does so much *extra* literature reading than any kid in high school here does (he just finished War and Peace), that I could break some of those off and put them into philosophy, and current events to make them full classes.  Suggestions?

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[regentrude]

One more thought on the music so you see where I'm coming from:

 

My DS wants to be a professional athlete. He trains a lot and competes locally and nationally, is on the national roster, has won his weight class in his division. Drives to the city 100 miles away 2-3 times per week to train at a good club, helps with training kids; trains two more nights in town.

 

I would be doing him a disservice if I just gave him tons of PE credit and left it at that. He will get a nominal half credit for PE for each year for the other stuff he does, and the martial arts and judo go into extracurriulars. It will be a focal point of my guidance counselor letter, feature prominently in the school profile, and he will elaborate on the application. That way, the school can see the passion and sustained level of commitment over several years, which is what they will be looking for. 

[lewelma]

I think your point is sound.  I'm just not used to thinking of his music that way.  But if US admissions need it that way, then so be it. 

 

Did you see my post about the economist right before yours?

[regentrude]

So he reads the Economist, Scientific American, and National Geographic cover to cover and has for 2 years, and I'm sure he will for 2 more.  And we discuss a lot.  How can I count that?  He has written papers for English class on ISIS, arguing for nuclear power, a research paper on the societal issues associated with genetic engineering.  Plus philosophical papers on Borges, Hemingway, Dostoevsky, and Dickinson.  I kind of consider those his English credits, but perhaps because he does so much *extra* literature reading than any kid in high school here does (he just finished War and Peace), that I could break some of those off and put them into philosophy, and current events to make them full classes.  Suggestions?

 

I would absolutely count that.

If he spent 120 hours (which seems likely he did), give him a credit for Current Events. Done.

That is exactly the kind of "class" you can have in a homeschool: informal, self study, discussion based - what counts is that he learned.

Whatever he learned at home, give him credit for.

[regentrude]

dp 

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by regentrude

[lewelma]

So would it make sense to peel off the socioscientific papers out of Bio, Chem, and Physics and turn that into his 4th English class called "scientific writing" or something?

 

And how do people put physics and AP physics on their transcripts?  Can I do introductory physics and advanced physics and discuss somewhere that this is the 11th and 12th grade curriculum?

 

I really don't think I can split up the science classes effectively.  And if I pull out the papers to make an english class, each science class could just be 1 credit, rather than 1 and a third credit. But if I don't indicate that he done two years of work in chem and physics, then he will only have 3 science classes. 

 

 

[regentrude]

So would it make sense to peel off the socioscientific papers out of Bio, Chem, and Physics and turn that into his 4th English class called "scientific writing" or something?

 

Sounds like a good plan.

 

 

 

And how do people put physics and AP physics on their transcripts?  Can I do introductory physics and advanced physics and discuss somewhere that this is the 11th and 12th grade curriculum?

People would list "Physics" and "AP Physics" if the course was with a college board approved AP syllabus or "Physics with AP exam" if it wasn't. 

Calling it "Physics" and "Advanced physics" sounds fine. Do they cover the same material at different levels? If not, I always prefer a more descriptive title that allows a conclusion about the content.

 

The "somewhere" to discuss the grade curriculum would be in the course descriptions.

 

 

I really don't think I can split up the science classes effectively.  And if I pull out the papers to make an english class, each science class could just be 1 credit, rather than 1 and a third credit. But if I don't indicate that he done two years of work in chem and physics, then he will only have 3 science classes. 

 

But I would imagine his oodles of math credits will outweigh that.

Again, ask the college. I cannot remember whether any actually demanded four years of science.

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by regentrude

[lewelma]

Ok Take 2. please don't quote in its entirety 

 

I think this gets all the comments, except taking out the number theory and combinatorics which are on the AoPS transcript.

 

English

World Literature with a focus on Russian 1  

Postmodern Literature 1  

Classic and Modern Science Fiction 1

Scientific Writing 1

 

Math

Algebra 1 1

Geometry 1

Algebra 2 1

Number Theory 1

Combinatorics 1

PreCalculus 1

Calculus 1 1

Calculus 2 1

Intro to Linear Algebra 1

MATH251 Linear Algebra 1

MATH245 Analysis 1

MATH232 Multivariate Calculus 1

MATH241 Number Theory 1

 

Science

Physics  1

Advanced Physics (with lab) 1

Chemistry  1 (with lab)

Advanced Chemistry (with lab) 1

Biology (with lab) 1

 

Humanities/Social Science

Ancient Greece 0.5  

Current Events 1

Philosophy 1

Economics 0.5

 

Foreign Language  

Mandarin 1.5

Mandarin 0.5  

Mandarin 0.5  

Mandarin 0.5  

 

Music

Music Theory 0.5

Music Performance 1 

Music Performance 1 

Music Performance  1

Music Performance 1

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[regentrude]

I like it.

It looks transparent and familiar enough so that admissions people can see at one glance what is going on.

His large number of math credits makes it perfectly clear that this is a student of outstanding mathematical talent.

The large number of music credits indicates that he is a musician.

Looks like the main boxes are all checked; you still have time to go through the admissions requirements of all those schools to make sure to hit all the spots they want to see.

 

[lewelma]

Hey, that looks pretty good!   :hurray:

[lewelma]

Thanks Regentrude!

[regentrude]

You're welcome. Just to reiterate: nobody knows for sure what gets a particular student into one of those highly selective colleges. 

We can all just make educated guesses from what we read that they value.

The mantra when I researched admissions was always: ask the college. So please, do not take our word for it that this is what they want to see, check with the schools about your unique situation. There should be admissions people designated to dealing with foreign applicants.

 

Any school in their right mind should be glad to take your DS. Being from NZ can give him an additional hook because of geographic diversity. I would think chances are pretty darn good... but then, maybe they needed a female flute player from Madagascar to round out their class profile - it is a black box with unknowable inner workings.

best wishes to your DS! 

Edited July 12, 2016 by regentrude

[lewelma]

The admissions people will have a fit of despair when they get handed this - unless you make it easy for them and explain in the school profile what it all means. 

This is even more of a reason to make the transcript as easy to understand as possible. Translate to US system to the best of your ability.

 

I know!  I also was having a fit of despair!  It is just so confusing to line up the two systems. Because the NZ system is nationally moderated, the NZ Qualifications Authority make lots of possible assessments that the teachers can choose from when building a class. Different assessments are worth different amounts of credit given the expected work load. But in the end, the class that is cobbled together from these assessment list is not listed on the transcript, only the INDIVIDUAL units are listed. This is why my ds is getting 1 and 1/3 12th grade physics credits, because he is doing *more* assessments than required to be generally accepted as a class. So all this is why I needed serious help translating it into the US system, because the systems are SO different.  Thanks for taking the time out of your day!  Mine is so much happier now.  :thumbup1:

[lewelma]

but then, maybe they needed a female flute player from Madagascar to round out their class profile -

:D

[quark]

Hey, that looks pretty good!   :hurray:

 

Sure does!! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

 

Humanities/Social Science

Ancient Greece 0.5  

Current Events 1

Philosophy 1

Economics 0.5

 

 

 

 

I think you are getting there.  Did he have to do anything that would be similar to a state or national history course?  

[daijobu]

 But honestly, I'm looking at the cost of going to Auckland with $20K just in living expenses as Auckland has just topped the world's list as the city with the biggest housing bubble...

 

 

 

 

Wait, what?

 

Auckland...New Zealand?  More expensive than San Francisco, New York, or London?   LOTR really did a number on you, didn't it?  

 

 

Also, these well-endowed name schools attract a lot of applicants from overseas, and I bet a lot of them can afford to have 1 or 2 on their admissions committees who specialize in overseas applicants.  Nonetheless, I agree you should call the school, and perhaps even ask to speak with their guy in charge of overseas applicants, if they have one.  

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think you are almost there.

 

As far as you can, try to separate in your mind what he did in 9th grade and the upper level label for the assessment he completed.  It is similar to how I have to explain dual enrollment or AP courses taken in 9th-12th grade.  My student isn't in college, but he took courses at college that were college level and courses at home that were supposedly at college level (the AP courses).

 

Remember that you have four places to explain your student.

 

The transcript is a summary document.  It lists courses and grades.  Mine also had room for a box of standardized test scores.  (You might want to have a second page just for the outside assessments.  That might let you keep the front page cleaner.)

 

I then have a course description document.  It explains what the content, source, timeframe, level and style each course was.  My descriptions are in pretty much the same subject order as the transcript.  Each description is a paragraph plus a list of texts used.  This is where I explain dual enrollment, online courses, National Latin Exam scores, that a course earned both college and high school credit, etc.  

 

The school profile is a document that explains how our homeschooling was structured.  It includes things like goals, educational partners, education philosophy, grading policies, etc.  In theory it could be used for another student in my homeschool.  I also used this to explicitly explain unusual circumstances, like the fact that we'd moved often, including 3 times in high school.

 

The counselor recommendation was specifically about my senior.  I explained his particulars.  I tried to be factual and give demonstrations of his qualities rather than just state them.  (A school counselor might be more judgmental, but they wouldn't be his family member.)  This section would only apply to that one student.

 

For most schools, there was some kind of an online form to complete for the teacher recommendations.  The other documents were either uploaded via the Common App or sent in the mail as a hard copy package.

 

 

[lewelma]

I think you are getting there.  Did he have to do anything that would be similar to a state or national history course?  

 

Nope.  I know it is a big deal in the US, but not here.  Not at all. He has done a lot of history, doing the SWB rotation twice, but with a world focus, not NZ.  We discuss a lot of NZ history though, and I might be able to get him to read a very readable nonfiction text about NZ history sometime in the next 2 years.  Is that something they actually would look for?  

[lewelma]

Wait, what?

 

Auckland...New Zealand?  More expensive than San Francisco, New York, or London?   LOTR really did a number on you, didn't it?  

 

 

Also, these well-endowed name schools attract a lot of applicants from overseas, and I bet a lot of them can afford to have 1 or 2 on their admissions committees who specialize in overseas applicants.  Nonetheless, I agree you should call the school, and perhaps even ask to speak with their guy in charge of overseas applicants, if they have one.  

Yup.  the MEDIAN house price just topped 1 million dollars.  A police officer or teacher would expect to earn between 40k and 70k annually.  So yes, crazy expensive. NZ is currently thinking of *requiring* a 50% down payment to discourage speculators.  So 500,000 down for a median-priced house.  How is that for nuts!!! 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[lewelma]

I think you are almost there.

 

As far as you can, try to separate in your mind what he did in 9th grade and the upper level label for the assessment he completed.  It is similar to how I have to explain dual enrollment or AP courses taken in 9th-12th grade.  My student isn't in college, but he took courses at college that were college level and courses at home that were supposedly at college level (the AP courses).

 

Remember that you have four places to explain your student.

 

The transcript is a summary document.  It lists courses and grades.  Mine also had room for a box of standardized test scores.  (You might want to have a second page just for the outside assessments.  That might let you keep the front page cleaner.)

 

I then have a course description document.  It explains what the content, source, timeframe, level and style each course was.  My descriptions are in pretty much the same subject order as the transcript.  Each description is a paragraph plus a list of texts used.  This is where I explain dual enrollment, online courses, National Latin Exam scores, that a course earned both college and high school credit, etc.  

 

The school profile is a document that explains how our homeschooling was structured.  It includes things like goals, educational partners, education philosophy, grading policies, etc.  In theory it could be used for another student in my homeschool.  I also used this to explicitly explain unusual circumstances, like the fact that we'd moved often, including 3 times in high school.

 

The counselor recommendation was specifically about my senior.  I explained his particulars.  I tried to be factual and give demonstrations of his qualities rather than just state them.  (A school counselor might be more judgmental, but they wouldn't be his family member.)  This section would only apply to that one student.

 

For most schools, there was some kind of an online form to complete for the teacher recommendations.  The other documents were either uploaded via the Common App or sent in the mail as a hard copy package.

You have got to be kidding me!   :scared:   I think I am going to need some buy in before I try to do all of that!  

[lewelma]

 

As far as you can, try to separate in your mind what he did in 9th grade and the upper level label for the assessment he completed.  It is similar to how I have to explain dual enrollment or AP courses taken in 9th-12th grade.  My student isn't in college, but he took courses at college that were college level and courses at home that were supposedly at college level (the AP courses).

 

My concern is that they won't know or realize that the 12th grade exam means that you have already studying physics the previous year.  DS gets the booklets for 11th and 12th grade for each topic.  He reads them both and then only studies for the 12th grade exam.  So he is doing the work for the 11th grade and 12th grade curriculums. Do you think they way I laid it out for science makes sense?  

 

To be clear, in NZ just like in the UK, you study 2 subjects at 11th grade level and 4 at 12th grade level.  My ds is doing way more than required because he is starting young.  I just can't figure out how for that to be clear at all.  Perhaps I put a star on all the 11th grade classes and a double star on the 12th grade classes, so they know he is doing advanced coursework young. 

 

Also, by not putting the courses by the grade that he did them in, I am kind of hiding the fact that his senior year will be focused on his music diploma, IMO, and university math courses.  He will have finished almost everything the year before and gotten his high school certificate, but will remain the the correspondence school full time to be eligible for the IMO and so he can take the scholarship exams for math and music, in case he decides to attend here.  

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[quark]

You have got to be kidding me!   :scared:   I think I am going to need some buy in before I try to do all of that!  

 

You have two more years right? :D

 

[lewelma]

Sure does!! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

Thanks so much, quark, for helping out!

 

I kind of didn't get my calculus done today as planned.  But this ended up being more fun. :001_smile:

[quark]

 

I just can't figure out how for that to be clear at all.  Perhaps I put a star on all the 11th grade classes and a double star on the 12th grade classes, so they know he is doing advanced coursework young. 

 

 

Ruth, why wouldn't you explain this in the school profile/ course descriptions where applicable? How would this be different from an 8th grader (for example) taking an undergraduate level course and the homeschool guidance counselor explaining that in the homeschool profile (e.g. one might say something like "student needed acceleration/ challenge due to having completed prerequisites in middle school").

 

ETA: BTW, I am very sure top-tier schools will be seeing quite a number of applicants who are very advanced. They must be quite used to this by now.

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by quark

[lewelma]

You have two more years right? :D

 

 

When did my little boy grow up?  2 years!!!! eeeeek

 

Well, Raptor-dad on the other thread just about gave me a heart attack when he told me that the door was almost shut.  So I thought I better start doing the research.  This transcript makes me feel much more in control.  It also will be a good way for me to make sure that we do more philosophy and ds does all the scientific paper assessments on offer so he can call them his 4th english class.  So well worth my time to get it done today. 

[lewelma]

Ruth, why wouldn't you explain this in the school profile/ course descriptions where applicable? How would this be different from an 8th grader (for example) taking an undergraduate level course and the homeschool guidance counselor explaining that in the homeschool profile (e.g. one might say something like "student needed acceleration/ challenge due to having completed prerequisites in middle school").

 

ETA: BTW, I am very sure top-tier schools will be seeing quite a number of applicants who are very advanced. They must be quite used to this by now.

 

 

I think I just don't understand those documents that everyone is talking about.  Perhaps a job for tomorrow!  

 

I think Regentrude said she had one she could send me.  Regentrude, if so, I'd love to see one to understand what in the world people are talking about.

 

I think the main problem, quark, is that I can't just put AP on the back end of these classes, because that is what a second course in topic is basically called in the US.  So ds used Knights College physics to study for the 12th grade physics exam, as far as I can tell this is an AP level textbook.  The NZ 12th grade exam he is much harder than a kid taking physics in school in 12th grade in the USA, because here a 12th grade course *requires* that you have taken an 11th grade course in the same subject as a prereq.  DS is getting out of that because I made such a stink as a homeschooler about 1.5 years ago that I ended up talking to the top guy in the ministry who connected me with the CEO of the correspondence school (of 16k students), and the CEO told all the admin people and teachers to just let ds study whatever he wanted to study, and to be really accommodating.  So I personally do not know of and have never heard of a single other student skipping the 11th grade material and just doing the 12th grade exam in *any* subject.  It just isn't done. Ever. So I just can't figure out how to explain that on either the transcript or any of these letters you guys are telling me I have to write.  

Edited July 12, 2016 by lewelma

[quark]

So I just can't figure out how to explain that on either the transcript or any of these letters you guys are telling me I have to write.  

 

When have you not figured things out when the time came to give your DS the best shot at the things he wanted to do? You figured it out before. You will figure this out too. Sometimes, just do the simplest thing. Explain it in the shortest, quickest way possible. Don't overthink it.

 

[lewelma]

When have you not figured things out when the time came to give your DS the best shot at the things he wanted to do? You figured it out before. You will figure this out too. Sometimes, just do the simplest thing. Explain it in the shortest, quickest way possible. Don't overthink it.

 

 

DS is 3 hours in.  I think I am just a big worried mess.  :crying:

[quark]

:grouphug:

[lewelma]

So something like.

 

All 12th grade exams require 11th grade coursework in the subject as a prerequisite, as a National guideline.  DS obtained special permission from the CEO of the correspondence school to bypass the 11th grade exams in Math and Science.

[quark]

Maybe...you will probably go through several drafts of your documents and settle on what sounds best afterwards. I find myself doing that a lot. Make one draft, let it simmer, come back, tweak here and there, simmer some more, tweak again etc. I have only one kid. I figure if I had 2 or more I won't obsess as much the second time around. :laugh:

[regentrude]

I think I just don't understand those documents that everyone is talking about.  Perhaps a job for tomorrow!  

 

I think Regentrude said she had one she could send me.  Regentrude, if so, I'd love to see one to understand what in the world people are talking about.

 

I think the main problem, quark, is that I can't just put AP on the back end of these classes, because that is what a second course in topic is basically called in the US.  So ds used Knights College physics to study for the 12th grade physics exam, as far as I can tell this is an AP level textbook.  

 

yes and no. The Physics AP has been redesigned and there are now four; AP Physics 1 and 2 are algebra based and could be comparable to the level of College Physics; AP C is calculus based and has a mechanics and an e&m part.

You can call the course "College Physics" - that is the name of the text and a recognized level. "AP" must be with an approved syllabus.

 

 

I will send you my other documents.

 

There is no door that is almost closed. Your DS has received an outstanding education, now you just have to sell it. You're doing great and it will all be fine.

[regentrude]

All 12th grade exams require 11th grade coursework in the subject as a prerequisite, as a National guideline.  DS obtained special permission from the CEO of the correspondence school to bypass the 11th grade exams in Math and Science.

 

which would be similar to "credit by exam".

DD was given permission to take French 2 at university while in high school, by instructor's consent, because she knew enough French.

After completing French2 with an A, the instructor awarded her official credit for French 1  as "credit by exam", because her performance in F2 clearly indicated mastery of F1.

 

So, this is not such an unusual situation. I listed the F1 on the transcript as a home taught course.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Nope.  I know it is a big deal in the US, but not here.  Not at all. He has done a lot of history, doing the SWB rotation twice, but with a world focus, not NZ.  We discuss a lot of NZ history though, and I might be able to get him to read a very readable nonfiction text about NZ history sometime in the next 2 years.  Is that something they actually would look for?  

 

I don't know if they would look for it.  I think many other countries have students that specialize more in high school than US students do.  

 

I was more wondering if there was something else he'd done that you'd overlooked.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

You have got to be kidding me!   :scared:   I think I am going to need some buy in before I try to do all of that!  

 

I might get some feedback from your kid before you tie yourself into a knot.  If he's super opposed to the idea of going to a US school, this may all be moot.

 

I mentioned the course descriptions and school profile, because I actually found it helped to not have to explain every feature in the transcript.  I used a subject transcript, with a column indicating the year completed and the grade when completed.  I had a footnote annotation for any outside coursework.  AP courses are called AP.  Other than that, I did all of the explaining in the course description, not on the transcript page.  In other words, the transcript page doesn't have to do everything.

 

The course descriptions are where you can explain that Physics: Mechanics entailed certain coursework and that it culminated with taking the XYZ exam.

 

I think you are doing an admirable job of explaining things in this thread.  Capture some of your explanations and throw them into a document.  This can become the beginnings of a school profile in which you discuss the NZ system in general, your homeschooling adaptations in particular and how it fit together.

 

One thing that has given me some peace is realizing that I don't have the job of closing the deal with college applications.  I do have the job of trying to explain what was done and how it fit together.  (For example, I made a point of explaining that all AP courses listed were taught using approved syllabuses from College Board, I noted that dual enrollment had different names at specific colleges and that courses were taken on a college campus, and I was very clear about how much we had moved during my kids' school years.  In one document, I called out the fact that moving meant they didn't have a lot of time with some of their extracurriculars, but that they'd been active in every location, even when we only lived in that area for 9 months.)  The test scores and documents I put together will have the purpose of opening up an opportunity to have dss' applications considered.  There may be any number of reasons for a yes or a no.  In some cases, he isn't the type of student they are looking for.  In other cases, he may be just the type of applicant they want, but there are many others like him.  That part of the process will come down to lots of factors that are beyond my control, beyond my kids' control and not something that any transcript package will be able to guarantee.  All we can do is do our best to provide detail and a clear explanation.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Some other folks on the board like Eight and Regentrude will have documents that more closely parallel your kid's school experience.

 

But if it helps, here is an example of what I had on a transcript vs in a course description.

 

Transcript: (Fields are Course Name, Grade, High School Credit, Year Competed, Grade Completed, the ABC annotation corresponds to an abbreviation for the outside source of the course.  I went with simple abbreviations because I had to many different source for something like # or * to make sense.)  I share this one because I added a lot of explanation to the college's description.  I wanted to explain that the course titled College Algebra was part of the pre-calculus sequence and also explain how I handled dual enrollment.

 

College Algebra ^ABC   A   1   2014   11

 

 

Course Description:

 

College Algebra (ABC College Math 101, 3 credits):  One semester college course that emphasized functions (algebraic and transcendental), relations, theory of equations and inequalities, matrices, binomial theorem, sequences and series, and curve fitting using a graphing calculator. This course taken on campus at ABC College (City, State) under High School Special status (dual enrollment).  Student earned three college credits and one high school credit.  [At ABC College, Pre-Calculus can be completed by successfully completing MATH 244 (Pre-Calculus) or both 101 (College Algebra) and 104 (Trigonometry) for a total of six credits.]

Textbook:

Hornsby, John. A Graphical Approach to Algebra and Trigonometry, 6e, Addison Wesley, 2014.

 

Transcript: (This is actually an ironic example, because I'd never noticed that I used a slightly different title on the transcript and the course description.)

 

AP American Gov't   A   .5   2013   10

 

Course Description:

AP US Government and Politics: A one-semester Advanced Placement course that explored the foundations and systems of American government.  Students studied the historical underpinnings of government, connections between citizens and government, organization of US government, efforts to preserve and increase civil liberties and rights, and how government policies are formed.  Students used a college level text and maintained a daily habit of news reading.  Class included research projects, participation in small group coop class simulations such as Mock Congress and Mock Supreme Court Oral Argument.  Field trips included the US Congress, Supreme Court, and Pentagon.  Unit exams that included both multiple choice, interpretation of graphs and data analysis, and essay questions based on previous AP exams.  Course was approved as an Advanced Placement syllabus by College Board.  Students were expected to sit for the AP exam. 

Textbooks: 

Edwards, George C. Government in America: People, Politics, and Policy.

Hall, Kermit L. The Pursuit of Justice: Supreme Court Decisions That Shaped America.

Machiavelli, NiccoloÌ€. The Prince.

Matthews, Christopher. Hardball: How Politics Is Played, Told by One Who Knows the Game.

Serow, Ann Gostyn. The Lanahan Readings in the American Polity.   

Wood, Ethel. American Government: A Complete Coursebook.  

Advanced Placement US Government exam (May 2014): Score #/5

 

Transcript: This one is from a different kid.  I had to create an understandable transcript title for a course that had an official title for the program that really didn't explain what it was.  

 

Japan Studies ^XY    A  1  2015  10

 

Course Description:

Japan Studies (ABC Scholars Program - ABC Program on International and Cross-Cultural Education):  The ABC Scholars Program (ABC) is a one semester online course sponsored by the ABC Program on International and Cross-Cultural Education in which 25-30 high school students engage in an intensive study of Japan.  The program offered an overview of Japanese history, religion, politics, economics and culture, with special attention to interactions between Japan and the US.  The course included weekly readings and writing assignments, discussion board exchanges and an independent project culminating in an 8-12 page paper.  Online lectures featured ambassadors, scholars and regional experts and engaged students in live discussion sessions.  Students were also required to make two community presentations about Japan.  Student received ABC Continuing Studies Program (CSP) credit for the course.  This course was taught in English.  (Course instructor: Name, ABC Fellowship Director)

Textbooks:

Chandler, Clay, Heang Chhor and Brian Salsberg.  Reimagining Japan:  The Quest for a Future that Works, 2011.

Dempster, Brian Komei, ed.  From Our Side of the Fence:  Growing Up in America's Concentration Camps, 2001.

Duus, Peter.  Modern Japan, 2ed, 1998.

Packard, George R.  Edwin O. Reischauer and the American Discovery of Japan, 2010.

 

I hope some of this helps.  I think you are doing a good job so far.  Don't get discouraged.  I would encourage you to write some short descriptions, not because you need the extra work, but because I think just writing a prose description in a separate document removes the struggle to try to convey every nuance on a one page transcript.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Sebastian (a lady)