"Light" epic poetry

[Caprice]

Hi all,

 

My rising 6th grader has requested that we study epic poetry this year. His goals are to read the Odyssey, the Iliad, and Beowulf, and to attempt to write an epic poem. He is motivated, so that may happen! Last year we got a free copy (thanks, Little Free Library!) of the same translation of the Odyssey I studied in college (Robert Fitzgerald), and I read him a bit of it, which we enjoyed, but it was clearly exhausting for him. So I had thought to start off with some "lighter" epic poems to ease him into the meter, structure, and language he will encounter.  I am planning to read the poetry out loud together, maybe taking turns.

 

I did a search on the forums and found suggestions for "Song of Hiawatha" and "Evangeline"--but when I glance over excerpts of them, they seem only slightly clearer to the modern ear than my Fitzgerald Odyssey. Also, I'm a little squeamish about reading "Hiawatha," not sure I want to spend that much time going deep into the noble savage stereotype. But maybe those are the best places to start? Any ideas, opinions, comments welcome.

 

He has read Black Ships Before Troy, The Wanderings of Odysseus, and a version of Beowulf for kids, so I think he is well prepared plot-wise.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Maybe read The Epic of Gilgamesh? It is a shorter epic, but depending on the translation is actually much more readable than 18th or 19th century English! 

 

The David Ferry translation and the Stephen Mitchell translation are two that I like.  They have different virtues, but you could check them both out and decide.

 

Stephen Mitchell also has a really cool verse translation of the Book of Job that reads like an epic poem.  

 

How about Rime of the Ancient Mariner?  It's so awesome to read aloud!! And not too difficult to follow, I don't think.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Chrysalis Academy

[Jayne J]

I was just coming in to recommend Gilgamesh myself. Surprisingly readable, relevant, and fun.

[ElizaG]

To make a recommendation, it would help to know:  what is it about epic poetry that attracts your 6th grader? 

[Targhee]

Not epic, but Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner may ease him into the form, and it is shorter and less removed historically.

[Caprice]

Maybe read The Epic of Gilgamesh? It is a shorter epic, but depending on the translation is actually much more readable than 18th or 19th century English! 

 

The David Ferry translation and the Stephen Mitchell translation are two that I like.  They have different virtues, but you could check them both out and decide.

 

Stephen Mitchell also has a really cool verse translation of the Book of Job that read like an epic poem.  

 

How about Rime of the Ancient Mariner?  It's so awesome to read aloud!! And not too difficult to follow, I don't think.

 

Thank you for these excellent recommendations! And thank you to Jayne and Targhee for seconding them. I am remembering how much he loved the brief story of Gilgamesh in Story of the World Ancients years ago, so that should be exciting. I am putting that and Rime of the Ancient Mariner in the plans. I really appreciate the specific translation advice.

 

The Book of Job translation sounds fascinating. I will have to check that out.

 

To make a recommendation, it would help to know:  what is it about epic poetry that attracts your 6th grader? 

 

Good question. I'm guessing it's partly because he's fascinated with ancient Greece. This year he began a curriculum for learning classical Greek. But the reason he gave me yesterday was that epics seem heroic and "fantasy-ish," meaning like the fantasy novels he reads. (Can you guess what popular fantasy series inspired him to study Greek?) Also, he likes poetry. Not really to pick up and read in his free time, but he is enthusiastic about our Poetry Teas, when they happen, even writing poems for them on occasion.

[Lori D.]

Here's a list of Epic poetry -- most are pretty stout works, and only a handful are WIDELY known and read. From that list, your DS might enjoy *excerpts* of, or prose adaptations of:

Gilgamesh

Odyssey

Beowulf

Kalavala (translated/embellished by Lönnrot)

Song of Roland

Saga of King Olaf (Longfellow) -- in 21 parts, and one of several tales in the longer work "Tales of a Wayside Inn"

Idylls of the King (Tennyson) -- King Arthur

The Wanderings of Oisin (Yeats)

 

(The last three were written in English in the 19th century, so the language and poetry form is MUCH more accessible, and no need for a prose adaptation or a translation.)

 

 

For writing an epic poem, do realize that there are different epic poetry forms, depending on which culture the epic comes out of, so DS will have some leeway in how he decides to approach his project of writing an epic poem:

 

Gilgamesh poetic devices:

"The â€œEpic of Gilgamesh†is essentially a secular narrative, and there no suggestion that it was ever recited as part of a religious ritual. It is divided into loosely connected episodes covering the most important events in the life of the hero… The standard Akkadian version of the poem is written in loose rhythmic verse, with four beats to a line, while the older, Sumerian version has a shorter line, with two beats. It uses “stock epithets†(repeated common descriptive words applied to the main characters) in the same way as the Greeks… Also, as in many oral poetry traditions, there are word for word repetitions of (often fairly long) narrative and conversation sections, and of long and elaborate greeting formulae. A number of the usual devices of poetic embellishment are employed, including puns, deliberate ambiguity and irony, and the occasional effective use of similes." — http://www.ancient-literature.com/other_gilgamesh.html

 

Ancient Greek (Homer) poetic devices:

"Both of Homer's epics [iliad, Odyssey] are composed in dactylic hexameter, which became the standard for Greek and Latin oral poetry. Homeric verse is characterized by the use of extended similes and formulaic phrases, such as epithets, to fill out the verse form. Greek and Latin epics frequently open with an invocation to the muse."

— https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/text/epic-poetic-form

And, more on Dactylic Hexameter.

 

Anglo Saxon/Old English (Beowulf) epic poetic devices:

"Anglo-Saxon poets typically used alliterative verse… in which the first half of the line â€¦ is linked to the second half â€¦ through alliteration… In addition, the two halves are divided by caesura [break]: "Oft Scyld Scefing \\ sceaþena þreatum" (l. 4) â€¦ [with two] stressed and [any number of] unstressed syllables [in each half of the line]… There is no fixed number of beats per line...

Epitephs [are also used]… Kennings are also a significant technique in Beowulf. They are evocative poetic descriptions of everyday things, often created to fill the alliterative requirements of the metre. For example, a poet might call the sea the "swan-road" or the "whale-road"; a king might be called a "ring-giver." There are many kennings in Beowulf, and the device is typical of much of classic poetry in Old English, which is heavily formulaic..." â€”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf#Form_and_metre

 

Medieval poetic devices:

"Over time, the epic has evolved to fit changing languages, traditions, and beliefs…  Beowulf, Edmund Spenser's The Faerie Queene, Dante's Divine Comedy, and John Milton's Paradise Lost. The Epic has also been used to formalize mythological traditions in many cultures, such as the Norse mythology in Edda and Germanic mythology in Nibelungenlied, and more recently, the Finnish mythology of Elias Lonnrot's Kalevala.

— https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/text/epic-poetic-form

 

Song of Roland poetic devices:

"Like other chansons de geste ("song of deeds") … the epic poems of the Middle Ages recounting the exploits of heroes… The Song of Roland is divided into verse paragraphs of varying length called laisses… Each laisse is held together by several poetic devices. Each line consists of ten syllables, divided roughly down the middle by a pause or rest. The rhythm of the line is formed by strong stresses falling on the fourth and tenth syllables. Within a single laisse, the separate lines are linked by assonance—a partial rhyme in which the accented vowel sounds are the same but the consonants differ, as in "brave" and "vain," for instance. The vowel sound repeated through one laisse never carries on to the next. Since the poet has divided his song into laisses according to the sense and not any standard length—for instance, a new laisse will begin when one combat or speech ends and the next begins—this use of assonance reinforces the divisions of plot, of action..." — http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/songofroland/section14.rhtml

 

 

… he's fascinated with ancient Greece. This year he began a curriculum for learning classical Greek. But the reason he gave me yesterday was that epics seem heroic and "fantasy-ish," meaning like the fantasy novels he reads. 

 

He might also really enjoy reading myths (not written in epic form), as they are also very fantasy-ish -- Greek and Norse myths are esp. referred to in much of Western Literature, as well as in modern pop culture, so they are very valuable works of Literature to read and be familiar with. :) And, classical education typically covers myths, so it's fantasy fun AND academic (lol) -- two for the price of one! ;)

 

He may be a bit young for it, but if he enjoys fantasy, and enjoys Tolkien's Lord of the Rings epic trilogy, he might at some point enjoy Tolkien's Children of Hurin -- it is set in the the First Age of Middle Earth (Lord of the Rings occurs at the very end of the Third Age), with larger-than-life epic heroes, and has a very Greek-tragedy feel, mixed with a Norse/Beowulf feel. But, it is a tragedy, if that makes a difference to DS at this stage, and it is filled to overflowing with that poignancy that comes in older adulthood of missed/lost opportunities and the grief of lost loved ones.

 

If he really gets into ancient Greece / epics / myths, he might enjoy prepping/participating in the annual National Mythology Exam.

 

Have fun running with this new passion of DS's! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Lori D.

[ElizaG]

Just to add to what Lori D. said:

 

1)  You might also look at heroic poems that aren't epics.   The language would be just as challenging, but they'd likely be shorter.

 

2)  There's no single "heroic meter" that's used across different languages.   If you or your DS are interested in this subject, there are many articles about it online; it might be a good way to explore poetic meter in general.   Maybe you could both have a go at writing some heroic couplets. 

 

3)  Most English translations of foreign-language epics don't use the original meter, and even if they did, it wouldn't necessarily have the same effect, because poetry is so closely tied to the habits of the language in which it's written.  (This goes both ways, because the languages themselves develop through the work of the poets.)

 

3)  Heroic verse that's written in English is often in iambic pentameter.  If you'd like some practice with reading and listening, there's lots of that around.    :001_smile:

[Storygirl]

Be sure to pre-read Gilgamesh for that age. There is a lot of talk about s@x, including the king taking a turn for himself with the local brides before their weddings. And Enkidu has an intimate experience that turns him from a kind of feral forest man into a more civilized being.

[Guest]

How about something like Horatius at the Bridge? It's a narrative poem, but it might do to get your ds's feet wet.

 

http://www.bartleby.com/360/7/158.html

Edited July 9, 2016 by Kinsa

[katilac]

One thing that we do, even at the high school level, is to have a version in modern English, plus a more typical translation. We read the plain and simple version to get through more material with a greater understanding, and the other version for more beauty and power and challenge. I do some planning so that the harder selections we read are the ones with famous lines/allusions, like "abandon all hope" in Dante. 

 

We liked David Ferry's Gilgamesh but it does have some mature bits. It can be a hard one to adapt, because removing those parts also removes a lot of explanation and motivation. I don't consider it explicit by any means; the two things that I remember are the temple harlot 'taming' Enkidu, and Gilgamesh claiming the right to sleep first with every bride (Enkidu opposes this, and this leads to the two men fighting and then becoming great friends in true "damn, you're a good fighter" bro fashion). 

 

I don't think sexual themes are any more prevalent in Gilgamesh than in any of the other epics, though; stormy seas aren't the only reason it took Odysseus so long to get home  :laugh:

 

I don't know if you're studying ancients in particular. If he's willing to explore epics in other eras, the hands-down favorite here has been Milton's Paradise Lost. The idea of "better to reign in hell than serve in heaven" is very relatable to most tweens and teens, lol. Dante's Inferno was a hit as well, and writing your own levels of hell is always a great assignment. 

 

I agree that Horatius at the Bridge is a good introduction to heroic narrative poetry.  We also enjoyed The Charge of the Light Brigade, Paul Revere's Ride, The Raven, and Annabel Lee for narrative poetry. 

 

Along the same lines, Shakespeare's St. Crispin's Day speech is short but stirring and he may already recognize certain phrases (we few, we happy few, we band of brothers). 

[Caprice]

 

For writing an epic poem, do realize that there are different epic poetry forms, depending on which culture the epic comes out of, so DS will have some leeway in how he decides to approach his project of writing an epic poem:

 

[snip]

 

 

 

He might also really enjoy reading myths (not written in epic form), as they are also very fantasy-ish -- Greek and Norse myths are esp. referred to in much of Western Literature, as well as in modern pop culture, so they are very valuable works of Literature to read and be familiar with. :) And, classical education typically covers myths, so it's fantasy fun AND academic (lol) -- two for the price of one! ;)

 

He may be a bit young for it, but if he enjoys fantasy, and enjoys Tolkien's Lord of the Rings epic trilogy, he might at some point enjoy Tolkien's Children of Hurin -- it is set in the the First Age of Middle Earth (Lord of the Rings occurs at the very end of the Third Age), with larger-than-life epic heroes, and has a very Greek-tragedy feel, mixed with a Norse/Beowulf feel. But, it is a tragedy, if that makes a difference to DS at this stage, and it is filled to overflowing with that poignancy that comes in older adulthood of missed/lost opportunities and the grief of lost loved ones.

 

If he really gets into ancient Greece / epics / myths, he might enjoy prepping/participating in the annual National Mythology Exam.

 

Have fun running with this new passion of DS's! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thank you, Lori D.! That is very good information about different forms of epic poetry. I'm glad I have a month to read about all of this myself before he begins studying.

 

I have to say, he loves Lord of the Rings and Greek myths, and did do the National Mythology Exam this year, so you definitely have him pegged! I even saw him reading Children of Hurin yesterday, though I don't know that one myself.

 

 

 

Just to add to what Lori D. said:

 

1)  You might also look at heroic poems that aren't epics.   The language would be just as challenging, but they'd likely be shorter.

 

2)  There's no single "heroic meter" that's used across different languages.   If you or your DS are interested in this subject, there are many articles about it online; it might be a good way to explore poetic meter in general.   Maybe you could both have a go at writing some heroic couplets. 

 

3)  Most English translations of foreign-language epics don't use the original meter, and even if they did, it wouldn't necessarily have the same effect, because poetry is so closely tied to the habits of the language in which it's written.  (This goes both ways, because the languages themselves develop through the work of the poets.)

 

3)  Heroic verse that's written in English is often in iambic pentameter.  If you'd like some practice with reading and listening, there's lots of that around.    :001_smile:

 

Interesting! I had dactylic hexameter in mind (since he's Greek obsessed) after a smidge of reading about it, but he may get more out of dipping his toes into different meters and forms before deciding on one for a final project. I love the idea of starting with some heroic couplets!

 

Be sure to pre-read Gilgamesh for that age. There is a lot of talk about [email protected]<script data-cfhash='f9e31' type="text/javascript">/* */</script>, including the king taking a turn for himself with the local brides before their weddings. And Enkidu has an intimate experience that turns him from a kind of feral forest man into a more civilized being.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

 

How about something like Horatius at the Bridge? It's a narrative poem, but it might do to get your ds's feet wet.

 

http://www.bartleby.com/360/7/158.html

 

This is great! I can definitely see DS sinking his teeth into this one. "Far to left and far to right/ In broken gleams of dark-blue light, / The long array of helmets bright, / The long array of spears."

 

One thing that we do, even at the high school level, is to have a version in modern English, plus a more typical translation. We read the plain and simple version to get through more material with a greater understanding, and the other version for more beauty and power and challenge. I do some planning so that the harder selections we read are the ones with famous lines/allusions, like "abandon all hope" in Dante. 

 

We liked David Ferry's Gilgamesh but it does have some mature bits. It can be a hard one to adapt, because removing those parts also removes a lot of explanation and motivation. I don't consider it explicit by any means; the two things that I remember are the temple harlot 'taming' Enkidu, and Gilgamesh claiming the right to sleep first with every bride (Enkidu opposes this, and this leads to the two men fighting and then becoming great friends in true "damn, you're a good fighter" bro fashion). 

 

I don't think sexual themes are any more prevalent in Gilgamesh than in any of the other epics, though; stormy seas aren't the only reason it took Odysseus so long to get home  :laugh:

 

I don't know if you're studying ancients in particular. If he's willing to explore epics in other eras, the hands-down favorite here has been Milton's Paradise Lost. The idea of "better to reign in hell than serve in heaven" is very relatable to most tweens and teens, lol. Dante's Inferno was a hit as well, and writing your own levels of hell is always a great assignment. 

 

I agree that Horatius at the Bridge is a good introduction to heroic narrative poetry.  We also enjoyed The Charge of the Light Brigade, Paul Revere's Ride, The Raven, and Annabel Lee for narrative poetry. 

 

Along the same lines, Shakespeare's St. Crispin's Day speech is short but stirring and he may already recognize certain phrases (we few, we happy few, we band of brothers). 

 

Thank you, Katilac! I like that approach of having an easier prose translation on hand. Have you seen the Gareth Hinds Odyssey graphic novel? I have skimmed it and it seems pretty faithful to the original. I may start with that and see if it's enough.

 

We are willing to explore all eras. Well, ok, I am--not sure what DS's intentions are. But I am getting really excited about this the potential of this study, especially if we can fit in Paradise Lost. DS liked "Paul Revere's Ride" and "The Raven", so I am adding The Charge of the Light Brigade and Annabel Lee to my tentative plans.

 

But I think it will be a great year--or however long this study lasts. I will be consolidating all of these great ideas into a plan and doing a lot of pre-reading though the rest of the summer. Like so many topics, I am seeing that we will only be touching on a bit of what is out there, but I think it will be enough to whet DS's appetite and maybe lay the groundwork for later studies.

 

Thanks, all!