in a society the profits from self-doubt

[MSNative]

It feels like in our current culture it's very socially acceptable to judge yourself and feel bad about yourself but it's not ok to be content with yourself or celebrate any achievements - that would be bragging, right? There's a quote that I love that sums this up well. "In a culture that profits from your self-doubt, loving yourself becomes a rebellious act."

 

I work with a lot of women and I've noticed that so many of us (including me):

 

Will get together and lament about how fat and ugly we are. Then much time is spent talking about diets, workouts and failures at them.

Eta: this is not all the women talk about but it will come up. Even if it's just a passing comment it's seems always there.

 

Will put ourselves down in other ways - I'm such a bad mom, I totally forgot to ...., I'm a wreck and my house looks like a disaster...

 

And these are real complaints that seem to hurt us to the core. I have literally had someone tell me they are too ugly to do something. These thoughts aren't just blips on the screen. They hold us back.

 

And there are so many companies that profit from this: weight loss, anti-aging, etc.

 

 

So do you find this to be the case? I'm in the fitness industry so maybe my perception is skewed.

How do we combat this? How do we change our inner dialogue and our societal norms about putting ourselves down?

Edited July 2, 2016 by MSNative

[Laura Corin]

I don't see it much among the women I know.  There's a bit of chat about diets but not in terms of failure.  

 

Among the women who attend the same yoga classes as I, people talk about not being able to do x today whereas they could last week, but it's just chat about how things change from day to day.

[MSNative]

I don't see it much among the women I know. There's a bit of chat about diets but not in terms of failure.

 

Among the women who attend the same yoga classes as I, people talk about not being able to do x today whereas they could last week, but it's just chat about how things change from day to day.

In rereading I did make it sound like that is all the ladies talk about. It's not. Wow. How boring. Lol! Its there though. I'll go edit to clarify.

 

Interesting. So you find the women you know to be pretty self confident and not self denigrating? You give me hope.

[MEmama]

I hear a lot of self inflicted drama, but not so much putting one's self down. More a sort of weird gloating about how "busy" they are and an overinflated desire to make things more complicated and dramatic than they really are.

 

I'm quickly worn down by those attitudes.

[Pawz4me]

I hear a lot of self inflicted drama, but not so much putting one's self down. More a sort of weird gloating about how "busy" they are and an overinflated desire to make things more complicated and dramatic than they really are.

 

I'm quickly worn down by those attitudes.

 

The bolded describes my SIL. I really do love her and overall think she's a really good person.  But being around her for more than a couple of hours exhausts me.

[nd293]

That's not really my experience. We talk about how to achieve more, but the focus is on motivation, inspiration, finding what works, rather than failure. Although failure is part of the learning process, not the end of something. So if the subject were dieting, we'd share science article, amusing articles, exercise together, we'd share the horrible news that the scale must be broken because it says we've gained weight, or agree that if you put zucchini in your chocolate cake the calories clearly don't count. If the issue is organisation, same thing: talk about success and failures, shares videos and ideas. I have one friend I laugh with a lot about this sort of thing. Another friend mostly laughs at me for spending so much time thinking about 'self-improvement', but that's okay too :-)

[MercyA]

As a Christian, I think these verses are applicable:

 

"Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. For each one will bear his own load." Galatians 6:2-5

[PeacefulChaos]

I did notice this trend in the past... now, however, it seems to be ending, at least from what I'm seeing on social media and IRL.

 

One thing that I remember figuring out once upon a time years ago was this: that wallowing in self-pity because I didn't weigh 133 lbs anymore like I did when I was 17 and 24 was just as self centered as it would be for me to be 133 lbs again and brag about it constantly.

Self-centered behavior isn't limited to building oneself up; it also applies when so much thought and effort are put into tearing oneself down.

 

Once I realized that, there was a bit of a 'click'.  It was probably 6-7 years ago now.  Since then I've shifted my perspective, and I've noticed others around me shifting theirs, as well.  

[Another Lynn]

If we sound content with our weight, the state of our home, etc, possibly we sound lazy.  "Eh, I guess 15 lbs heavier is my new normal," sounds lazy to me.  "Our house keeping strives for a healthy level of germ exposure."  Or "Hey, we live here!" (as opposed to staging for a magazine shoot, lol).  All these statements might be true, and not necessarily bragging, but perhaps lazy.  

[regentrude]

No, I do not find this to be the case.

I am surrounded by people who are passionate about their work, driven to achieve, and achievement is acknowledged and honored.

None of my colleagues or friends talks about dieting, weight loss or appearance - or the state of their houses. I honestly cannot recall a conversation about such topics.

My circle of friends has a conscious culture of supporting and building each other up. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2016 by regentrude

[regentrude]

If we sound content with our weight, the state of our home, etc, possibly we sound lazy.  "Eh, I guess 15 lbs heavier is my new normal," sounds lazy to me.  "Our house keeping strives for a healthy level of germ exposure."  Or "Hey, we live here!" (as opposed to staging for a magazine shoot, lol).  All these statements might be true, and not necessarily bragging, but perhaps lazy.  

 

Statements phrased like this seem almost passive-aggressive in their begging for a response: "Oh, it's not so bad". "You're doing just fine". 

Why would I mention my weight at all? Why a seemingly deprecating comment about the state of my home?

I weigh what I weigh, and my house looks the way it does. Neither interferes with me being active, dressing the way I want, or inviting friends over. Nobody gives a hoot, anyway. 

[PeacefulChaos]

Statements phrased like this seem almost passive-aggressive in their begging for a response: "Oh, it's not so bad". "You're doing just fine". 

Why would I mention my weight at all? Why a seemingly deprecating comment about the state of my home?

I weigh what I weigh, and my house looks the way it does. Neither interferes with me being active, dressing the way I want, or inviting friends over. Nobody gives a hoot, anyway. 

 

Exactly.

[Laura Corin]

If we sound content with our weight, the state of our home, etc, possibly we sound lazy.  "Eh, I guess 15 lbs heavier is my new normal," sounds lazy to me.  "Our house keeping strives for a healthy level of germ exposure."  Or "Hey, we live here!" (as opposed to staging for a magazine shoot, lol).  All these statements might be true, and not necessarily bragging, but perhaps lazy.  

 

I'm a bit worried by the idea of describing these things as lazy.  You have standards for your life and people who don't meet them are lazy, even if they express their satisfaction with them?  

 

I'm sure that there are things that I try harder at than do you.  I don't think you are lazy, I just think you have different priorities.

[Rosie_0801]

How do we combat this? How do we change our inner dialogue and our societal norms about putting ourselves down?

 

I don't say stuff like that out of low self esteem. I say it out of authenticity. Yeah, I can absolutely imagine realities where brushing your hair feels like an achievement. I'm not going to knock you when you live in one of those realities; I'm going to empathise. I'm going to tell a story worse than your story so you don't feel so alone because those realities suck and you're living like that because no one is coming to help.

[Ausmumof3]

I don't say stuff like that out of low self esteem. I say it out of authenticity. Yeah, I can absolutely imagine realities where brushing your hair feels like an achievement. I'm not going to knock you when you live in one of those realities; I'm going to empathise. I'm going to tell a story worse than your story so you don't feel so alone because those realities suck and you're living like that because no one is coming to help.

Yes this. It's almost a one upmanship about who is fatter or has the worse mess - just to let people know yep you're not alone we all have our struggles. Maybe this is an Aussie thing though. The underdog thing...

[regentrude]

I was also wondering whether the claim in the title of the thread is accurate.

I do not believe society profits from self doubt at all. There may be certain industries that profit, but society as a whole suffers terribly, because self doubt and insecurities often cause people to be non-productive or even destructive towards self and others.

[KungFuPanda]

It feels like in our current culture it's very socially acceptable to judge yourself and feel bad about yourself but it's not ok to be content with yourself or celebrate any achievements - that would be bragging, right? There's a quote that I love that sums this up well. "In a culture that profits from your self-doubt, loving yourself becomes a rebellious act."

 

I work with a lot of women and I've noticed that so many of us (including me):

 

Will get together and lament about how fat and ugly we are. Then much time is spent talking about diets, workouts and failures at them.

Eta: this is not all the women talk about but it will come up. Even if it's just a passing comment it's seems always there.

 

Will put ourselves down in other ways - I'm such a bad mom, I totally forgot to ...., I'm a wreck and my house looks like a disaster...

 

And these are real complaints that seem to hurt us to the core. I have literally had someone tell me they are too ugly to do something. These thoughts aren't just blips on the screen. They hold us back.

 

And there are so many companies that profit from this: weight loss, anti-aging, etc.

 

 

So do you find this to be the case? I'm in the fitness industry so maybe my perception is skewed.

How do we combat this? How do we change our inner dialogue and our societal norms about putting ourselves down?

I didn't set out to combat it, but battling these perceptions has been the most surprising thing about my work. I teach bellydance classes. Over half of my students are middle aged women. I get to see them go from reluctant to attend a class because they think they're too _______(fat, thin,old, etc.), to performers. It's magic to me as they look around and realize that this particular dance is FOR women and has nothing to do with the Hollywood harem girl image. They begin to move the body they're in and come to love and except what it can do. When their confidence and personality begins to creep into their dancing, that is THE moment for me. I love that part of my job most of all. My troupe has had members from children, to pregnant women, to grandparents.

 

However you go about it, a strong network of supportive women is an invaluable and healing thing. I adore my husband and have had nothing but positive reinforcement from him for 26 years. However, I think a lot of 'issues' come from women buying what (the wrong)men are selling. Literally! Most of those people getting rich on the self-help circuit are men. (Don't even get me started on cult leaders and mega-preachers).

 

I say find a troupe of confident, happy older women and learn from them!

[MSNative]

I was also wondering whether the claim in the title of the thread is accurate.

I do not believe society profits from self doubt at all. There may be certain industries that profit, but society as a whole suffers terribly, because self doubt and insecurities often cause people to be non-productive or even destructive towards self and others.

That is an excellent point and I agree. And Id add to it the loss of focused energy, money and health. At the gyms in my area the current hot item is an expensive weight loss patch that is causing people to get sick in class. It's lovely. And expensive. Another trend is the really expensive "pink drink" weight loss scheme that has caused several of our gym members to have racing resting heart rates. (the gyms are NOT pushing this. It's what I am seeing members do. I wouldn't be part of a company that did that.)

Dangerous to people but big bucks for those industries.

[MSNative]

I didn't set out to combat it, but battling these perceptions has been the most surprising thing about my work. I teach bellydance classes. Over half of my students are middle aged women. I get to see them go from reluctant to attend a class because they think they're too _______(fat, thin,old, etc.), to performers. It's magic to me as they look around and realize that this particular dance is FOR women and has nothing to do with the Hollywood harem girl image. They begin to move the body they're in and come to love and except what it can do. When their confidence and personality begins to creep into their dancing, that is THE moment for me. I love that part of my job most of all. My troupe has had members from children, to pregnant women, to grandparents.

 

However you go about it, a strong network of supportive women is an invaluable and healing thing. I adore my husband and have had nothing but positive reinforcement from him for 26 years. However, I think a lot of 'issues' come from women buying what (the wrong)men are selling. Literally! Most of those people getting rich on the self-help circuit are men. (Don't even get me started on cult leaders and mega-preachers).

 

I say find a troupe of confident, happy older women and learn from them!

I love love love this!! I have tried to create the same atmosphere in my classes. I'm going to pm you to beg, I mean ask, for more details.

 

I totally agree that a supportive group of women and men is key!! I've seen that with my team. I've literally seen women changing. And we will bust each other's negative thinking and refocus it on better thoughts. But there is so much "reprogramming" of our thinking that is happening. I guess that's what promoted my post.