what to do with a bright kid that didn't complete enough to earn a diploma?

[teeterbunch]

Things began to fall apart for my DS (now 18) during his junior year (last year).  He made it up to the very end, but failed to complete his courses.  He did very minimal work during the first semester of his senior year, mostly just keeping his high school status so he could compete in Mock Trial.  In January, he enrolled in 3 classes at the local community college (DE).  He also failed to complete these. At that point we insisted he work, if he wasn't going to pursue school, so he got a job at local fast food restaurant.

 

So here's the other side of the coin.  We have homeschooled all the way through.  He participated on the Mock Trial team all 4 years of high school, becoming one of our strongest members early on.  He even won a national award for his achievement in mock trial.  He scored a 30 on the ACT (composite).  He work ethic is "renowned" by everyone he works for outside the home.  He is very interested in blacksmithing, and has served as an apprentice at our local living history museum for several years.

 

Until recently I felt that I could not award him a diploma because he hadn't met the goals we established for our homeschool (I'm not really concerned about our goals matching the diploma issued in our state.)  When it became clear that he was not going to apply to college right after high school to pursue his original ambition of becoming an attorney, I modified my expectations.  However, he still hasn't met those qualifications.

 

Now my husband and I are thinking that our DS is as educated, articulate, and intelligent as most high school graduates, so why not just award him a diploma from our homeschool, so he isn't held back by the lack of it, like on employment applications.  This wouldn't be a "giving in" thing....more of a reasonable "moving forward."  Of course, if he decides to go to college, then he will have to address all the blank spaces on his transcript. 

 

I would love to hear from anyone who has had a similar experience (we can't be the only ones, right??) or can offer suggestions.  Thanks so much!!

 

Ashley

 

 

Edited July 1, 2016 by teeterbunch

[regentrude]

Not BTDT, but here is what I would do if I were in this situation:

I would re-examine my homeschool's graduation requirements again and compare them side by side with the state graduation requirements. If those were met, and my original/first time adjusted homeschool requirements were clearly above them, I would feel comfortable issuing a basic high school diploma to give him the opportunity to move forward without the stigma of being a dropout. I have high standards for my students, too, but at this point, holding them to higher standards and withholding the diploma is no longer doing them a service.

I would encourage him to pursue the blacksmithing avenue by finding some apprenticeship/vocational training.

 

If whatever he did in high school was even below those outside requirements, I would not feel comfortable graduating him, but I would offer him the option of completing the minimum of work that would get him there and graduating him once he has reaeched that goal.

Seeing that state grad requirements are fairly low, it is very likely that he completed what would have been required to graduate at public school.

 

Most importantly, however, I would try to address what went amiss and aim to find out whether there are underlying issues he might receive help for - depression, for example.

 

ETA: I would be less focused on time spent and number of courses completed in areas where you have outside validation. With a 30 ACT, I assume his English and math sub scores are fairly high; I would feel comfortable using them to validate completion of English work and math through algebra2. 

Edited July 1, 2016 by regentrude

[teeterbunch]

Thanks, Regentrude.  We share your concerns about getting to the root of the issue, so my son did see a counselor during the fall of last year.  My take is that his weaknesses in executive skills, combined with his lack of motivation to complete something solely to put a check in a box, are what have resulted in his current circumstance.  He is pursuing blacksmithing, has a social group, and seems much happier than when he was trying to "finish" school.

 

What would be an example of a lower tier school?  I think every program is going to require 4 years of English, and he doesn't have that.  If his writing score on his SAT (which I need to look up) was passing, should I just let go of that requirement?  He scored a 33 on the multiple choice writing section of the ACT.

 

Appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Ashley

[City Mouse]

It sounds like he might be a good candidate for the GED exam.

[Susie in CA]

Check your states minimum graduation requirements. In California, you can receive a diploma with only three years of English.

[theelfqueen]

A lot of schools count debate and things like mock trail as English elective.

Blacksmithing could be a work study credit. Perhaps he has done other things that could be counted as alternative credit ?

[Haiku]

If your 18 year old scored a 30 on the ACT, I would graduate him and be done with it. The purpose of education is (or should be) to turn out educated people, not to check boxes. He's clearly educated. As you said, if he decides later to pursue college, it's on him to deal with incomplete credits. But I don't see any value in hampering a bright, adult male by denying him a basic diploma.

[lmrich]

Would he take the GED?

[Brad S]

...

 

ETA: I would be less focused on time spent and number of courses completed in areas where you have outside validation. With a 30 ACT, I assume his English and math sub scores are fairly high; I would feel comfortable using them to validate completion of English work and math through algebra2. 

 

 

...

What would be an example of a lower tier school?  I think every program is going to require 4 years of English, and he doesn't have that.  If his writing score on his SAT (which I need to look up) was passing, should I just let go of that requirement?  He scored a 33 on the multiple choice writing section of the ACT.

When I read your OP, I had no idea what to do, but Regentrude's reply makes sense to me too.  It appears that, somehow, your DS has learned most of the material for four years of basic high school English, or more.  (ETA: That accomplishment is more important than the "how.")  The one thing that I did wonder about was whether basic functional writing was accomplished or not.  I'd take a "passing" score on the writing section of the SAT as an outside evaluation, or any other reasonable evaluation.  From the ACT results alone, I'd take four years of basic high school English as being met as long as he's able to write at a very basic functional level (which he probably can).  The mock trial success indicates to me that some serious rhetorical skills have been developed.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Brad S

[BlsdMama]

I think I'd be frustrated with DS not meeting my goals, but at the same I wouldn't punish him by having him take the GED.  (IMO, a kid that gets a composite of 30 has met more than minimum high school requirements of LEARNING) and a GED could inhibit his future.  If he has executive function shortcomings, honestly, those will continue to develop and mature, especially as a boy, in my very non-professional opinion, and he might just go on to be a very academically successful kid in the future.  

 

I would hate giving him the diploma.  I'd feel frustrated with it, with him.

 

This is a really hard spot to be in.

[Crimson Wife]

It sounds like he might be a good candidate for the GED exam.

 

I would strongly recommend against that because there is a stigma to the GED. Now if he actually were a dropout rather than a kid who sounds like he satisfied the requirements for a general ed H.S. diploma, that would be different.

 

[Excelsior! Academy]

Is he not meeting your state's requirements?  In our state (OK) there are no requirements for homeschoolers. Most homeschoolers meet or exceed the public school's requirements, but they aren't required.  Kwim?  If it were our family, with those test scores, I would award a diploma and move on.   :)

 

 

Edited July 1, 2016 by Excelsior! Academy

[Haiku]

I think I'd be frustrated with DS not meeting my goals

I think this may be the heart of the matter. Sixteen, seventeen, eighteen year olds shouldn't be working to meet Mom's goals. They should be working to meet their own.

 

The OP says her son is pursuing his goal

(blacksmithing), has friends, and is happy. That's what I want for my kids when they have finished school: pursuing goals and happy. The rest is just details.

 

OP, it sounds like you prepared your son to move into adulthood. I think that's a good thing.

[wapiti]

With such great debate skills, I'd try very hard to make sure the doors are open for a return to academics in case he decides later to pursue college and law school.  (For example, the top-tier law school I attended went out of its way to recruit older students with work experience - about half the class did not go to school straight through - though most of the people worked after college rather than before.  Honestly the blacksmithing experience would sound pretty cool!)  I agree that Mock Trial would be an excellent English elective.  If I were to get very creative, I might even rename it, something including words like "language of argument and advocacy" (I just made that up; there are probably better ones).  And, I wouldn't be averse to adding levels (1, 2, 3, 4) and awarding credits commensurate with the level of achievement.

Edited July 1, 2016 by wapiti

[Julie of KY]

I would reexamine the minimum requirements for a diploma. To me it sounds like he's met them and he's certainly met the requirements of learning by his ACT score. (If you want you could also back up and count 8th-11th as his high school years).

 

I'd graduate him and be done. I'd also make a transcript because he might need it in the future - I'd feel fine listing some/all of the classes as simply pass/fail. The transcript would just be on hand for if he wants to apply to college or other in the future so you don't have to do it then.

 

I would award a diploma over the GED because the GED has a stigma associated with it that doesn't reflect the ability of a student that can make a 30 on the ACT.

[regentrude]

What would be an example of a lower tier school?  I think every program is going to require 4 years of English, and he doesn't have that.  If his writing score on his SAT (which I need to look up) was passing, should I just let go of that requirement?  He scored a 33 on the multiple choice writing section of the ACT.

 

Does he read? Does he write? Does he speak in public?

4 years of English does not have to mean four organized courses. My DD unschooled English completely one year, just read and wrote, took the subject SAT2 and aced it, so I felt justified in awarding her credit - for whatever she did independently  

 

His writing and reading scores on the ACT clearly show proficiency in English. I would think outside the box and see whether the reading and writing - even in nontraditional forms, like blogs, forums - and oral presentations can be bundled into a credit. I would have absolutely no problem giving him English credit for Speech and Debate for Mock Trial. 

 

Heck, the purpose of these requirements is to be educated, not to jump through hoops and check boxes. A 33 in the writing section merits "Credit by examination". Done. (Yes, that's a thing. My college students can come to me and request to test out of physics; I give them an exam, and if they pass, they get credit without having taken a class.)

With these test scores, he clearly shows English mastery that exceeds any graduation requirement.

 

ETA: I would NOT go the GED route since that still carries a stigma. He may not have met your requirements, but he would have graduated from any public school. That should merit a diploma, not a drop out label.

Edited July 1, 2016 by regentrude

[...................]

I don't know about the diploma.  I am big for earning what you achieve.  But I see a lot of points others made.

 

I am more concerned about why he fell off the way he did.  

 

Maybe you can consider the Army?

[almondbutterandjelly]

Teeter,

 

Perhaps you could tell us what your requirements were and his actual coursework for high school, and we could make specific suggestions so you would feel very comfortable graduating him.  Please include things that might help us review your transcript such as the Mock Trial and such.

 

Perky

[Mom22ns]

I'm in the re-examine your requirements camp.

 

I know people who give 4 years of high school English credit if their kids can pass the CLEP exams in Literature and Composition. The theory is that if they have learned enough English to get college credit, they have finished all of high school English. I'm not a fan of this system, but with your ds - I think I'd consider something similar. With a 33 on the English section of the ACT, he has clearly learned all that was required in high school English. Say he unschooled it if you'd like, but the information got into his brain. 

 

Since he has learned more than the average high schooler (by test scores), I'd figure out a way to give him the credit and the diploma. Obviously, he can get back into school at the CC level if he chooses and getting into a trade makes great sense.

[regentrude]

Just to put things into clearer perspective:

a 30 composite on the ACT puts him in th 95th percentile of all students taking the test

a 33 on the English portion puts is the 97th percentile.

 

I think he quite possiby could have graduated a year early; the choice not to do so for the sake of mock trial may have not been the best. Of course that cannot be changed retroactively, but you could take another look to see whether your high school requirements were fulfilled in grades 8 through11. If so, the diploma conferred now could have been bestowed a year early and was merely deferred for specific reasons. That might ease your conscience :)

 

ETA: I feel stongly about this issue, because I, too, have a very intelligent capable student with non-academic goals, and I am adjusting my expectations for what I wanted to accomplish in high school. There but for the grace of God, go I

Edited July 1, 2016 by regentrude

[teeterbunch]

A lot of schools count debate and things like mock trail as English elective.

Blacksmithing could be a work study credit. Perhaps he has done other things that could be counted as alternative credit ?

 

I had not thought of using mock trial as an English credit, but he has tons of hours in it.  Thanks!!!

[Vida Winter]

I would consult with Lee Binz (The HomeScholar blog) and have her work with you to come up with a transcript. You may be in better shape than you think. She has a club that is under fifty dollars a month that includes weekly one-on-one time with her.

 

The HomeScholar

 

 

 

[teeterbunch]

I think I'd be frustrated with DS not meeting my goals, but at the same I wouldn't punish him by having him take the GED.  (IMO, a kid that gets a composite of 30 has met more than minimum high school requirements of LEARNING) and a GED could inhibit his future.  If he has executive function shortcomings, honestly, those will continue to develop and mature, especially as a boy, in my very non-professional opinion, and he might just go on to be a very academically successful kid in the future.  

 

I would hate giving him the diploma.  I'd feel frustrated with it, with him.

 

This is a really hard spot to be in.

 

The dissonance you describe is exactly where I am at.  For so long the diploma was serving alternately as the "carrot" or "stick" to get him across the finish line.  I feel lke that's just not relevant anymore though.  And as you said, I don't want to hamper his future.  Thanks for taking the time to respond.  It feels good to be understood. : )

[teeterbunch]

I think this may be the heart of the matter. Sixteen, seventeen, eighteen year olds shouldn't be working to meet Mom's goals. They should be working to meet their own.

 

The OP says her son is pursuing his goal

(blacksmithing), has friends, and is happy. That's what I want for my kids when they have finished school: pursuing goals and happy. The rest is just details.

 

OP, it sounds like you prepared your son to move into adulthood. I think that's a good thing.

 

This is so true.  The problem was that until junior year his goal was to attend an undergraduate school that had a competitive mock trial team, then pursue a law degree.  So I was actually trying to help him meet his goals.  I think that's why we had such an unraveling; he started to sense that this long-held goal was not a good fit for him (right now), and it resulted in a sort of identity crisis.  My hunch is he may return to that path after he has some time to mature.  But if he wants to be a professional blacksmith, I'm cool with that too. : )

[teachermom2834]

Honestly, I would look at my requirements and do anything I could to adjust them and be as generous and creative as possible to award that diploma.

 

Your child is educated and capable. Something went awry. That happens in life. Given all you have shared I would not want whatever went awry to hold him back making his way in this world.

 

He did not meet your requirements. He did not even meet those of your state perhaps. But I am positive there are kids graduating with official diplomas in your state that have had teachers, administrators, and parents bending over backwards to get them that diploma. I would give it to him and move forward.

[teeterbunch]

With such great debate skills, I'd try very hard to make sure the doors are open for a return to academics in case he decides later to pursue college and law school.  (For example, the top-tier law school I attended went out of its way to recruit older students with work experience - about half the class did not go to school straight through - though most of the people worked after college rather than before.  Honestly the blacksmithing experience would sound pretty cool!)  I agree that Mock Trial would be an excellent English elective.  If I were to get very creative, I might even rename it, something including words like "language of argument and advocacy" (I just made that up; there are probably better ones).  And, I wouldn't be averse to adding levels (1, 2, 3, 4) and awarding credits commensurate with the level of achievement.

 

Love the course name...and off the top of your head, no less. : )  Thanks!

 

As far as returning to academics, that's going to have to be at his initiative.  I'll do everything I can to help him, but if I've learned anything over the past 2 years, it's that.

[maize]

Can you design some kind of exit exam for him? Maybe take the ACT score he already has to demonstrate competence in language arts and math, add in some CLEP exams or other competence demonstrating exams of your choice, and give him a diploma based on that.

 

My high school diploma (from outside the US) was awarded based on adequate performance on comprehensive exams, not on class hours or assignments or credits completed. This is common in many parts of the world, and will likely play a role in how I structure high school for my own kids.

Edited July 1, 2016 by maize

[teeterbunch]

Honestly, I would look at my requirements and do anything I could to adjust them and be as generous and creative as possible to award that diploma.

 

Your child is educated and capable. Something went awry. That happens in life. Given all you have shared I would not want whatever went awry to hold him back making his way in this world.

 

He did not meet your requirements. He did not even meet those of your state perhaps. But I am positive there are kids graduating with official diplomas in your state that have had teachers, administrators, and parents bending over backwards to get them that diploma. I would give it to him and move forward.

 

These are my husband's feelings exactly.  He shared them with me this morning, and that is what initiated us revisiting the issue.

[purplelily]

I agree do not have him take the GED.  The GED carries a stigma in so many place.  With the score he got on the ACT he can get scholarships to schools.  

 

Encourage him to pursue his blacksmithing as a trade.  His speaking skills will serve him where ever he goes.  He can always go back to school.

 

Give him a chance to figure out what he wants.  It is his life.  He will have to learn lessons in adult life that you cannot teach.  Guide him as much as you can, but it is still his life.  

[Arcadia]

I'll tally what he has completed with your state requirements for public school kids and fill up any gap with credit by exam.

 

As for law as a vocation, a engineer friend who was layoff during the recession went into patent/intellectual property law with further studies and is now self employed and not having to worry as much about ageism.

 

My high school diploma (from outside the US) was awarded based on adequate performance on comprehensive exams, not on class hours or assignments or credits completed. This is common in many parts of the world, and will likely play a role in how I structure high school for my own kids.

Same here for hubby and me. My oldest wants his high school structured that way.

[...................]

^^  That's a good point.

 

What do you think about his character?  Do you feel you're doing this to make you and hubby feel better?  Or do you feel this is best for his long term character?  That is really the question we all have in making these parenting decisions.  Is this best for the child's long-term character?  

 

Obviously he is not only smart but has amassed even MORE than the typical high school student in terms of knowledge.  Thinking on that vein, it makes sense to award him his diploma.

 

On the other hand, is that teaching him that he doesn't have to complete and finish things in life, and that someone will "pave the way" for him just because he is smart?  Thinking on that vein, I'm worried about the lessons you might send your son.

 

This is the part that concerns me:  You already modified your expectations, and he still didn't bother to meet them.  Therefore, he has sent you a clear message that he is not concerned about a diploma.  He is smart enough to do it and has chosen not to do so.  

 

.....THis is connected to is the issue of what he is doing now.  He should not be working in a restaurant and living at home.  If he does not get into trade school or attend college full time, then he should not be allowed to live at home.  It's too easy.  3 out of my 6 siblings had to "get the boot" for this exact scenario and found their way and prospered, amazingly fast.  They just needed a wake up call so to speak.

 

People sometimes need more time to find their way...but they should always be working toward the next goal at this age.  

 

Trust me, from someone who worked at restaurants for 7 years, there is something very fun and exhilarating about working in a restaurant.  It's very social; very dynamic, and not hard intellectually.  It's hard work physically and emotionally, so you get a real sense of daily and even momentary accomplishment - much more immediate than school or college! ....and if you show up and work hard your manager will truly love you so there's lots of appreciation.  It's the easy way out to feel accomplished in the moment without working toward the long term goals which take more patience such as college or even trade school.

 

Or, there's the Miliatry.  Some kids are sick of college, they want to work hard and earn money.... but they still need direction...that is a specialty for the military!

 

 

 

 

 

[teeterbunch]

 Trust me, from someone who worked at restaurants for 7 years, there is something very fun and exhilarating about working in a restaurant.  It's very social; very dynamic, and not hard intellectually.  It's hard work physically and emotionally, so you get a real sense of daily and even momentary accomplishment - much more immediate than school or college! ....and if you show up and work hard your manager will truly love you so there's lots of appreciation.  It's the easy way out to feel accomplished in the moment without working toward the long term goals which take more patience such as college or even trade school.

 

 

I think this is exactly what appealed to him about the restaurant business.  Honestly, I just don't think he has the maturity yet to do long-term goals.  He was VERY late to mature physically, and his emotional maturity has matched that, while his mental capabilities zoomed ahead.  

 

My husband and I are not into giving a free lunch.  DS just finished serving at a counselor for Boys' State (they invited him back), then visiting his grandmas to help them with things around the house, and is currently pursuing a work/study program at a crafting (blacksmithing) school.  We consider that to be appropriately "engaged" for a gap year.  

 

I think at this stage in his life, he may regret not finishing his coursework, now that the reality of what that means is upon him.  So I think he would receive the diploma as an act of grace and appreciate the clean slate.  Of course, we don't want to rescue him from the lesson to learn here.  There in lies the rub, huh? : )

[maize]

We all benefit from an occasional act of grace, I do not think that creates an entitlement mentality in and of itself.

[regentrude]

What do you think about his character?  Do you feel you're doing this to make you and hubby feel better?  Or do you feel this is best for his long term character?  That is really the question we all have in making these parenting decisions.  Is this best for the child's long-term character?  

 

Obviously he is not only smart but has amassed even MORE than the typical high school student in terms of knowledge.  Thinking on that vein, it makes sense to award him his diploma.

 

On the other hand, is that teaching him that he doesn't have to complete and finish things in life, and that someone will "pave the way" for him just because he is smart?  Thinking on that vein, I'm worried about the lessons you might send your son.

 

This is the part that concerns me:  You already modified your expectations, and he still didn't bother to meet them.  Therefore, he has sent you a clear message that he is not concerned about a diploma.  He is smart enough to do it and has chosen not to do so.  

 

I think a strong engaged student who suddenly falls of the wagon so completely and abruptly has something else going on than issues with "character". I would be  concerned about my kid's mental health and underlying executive functioning issues istead of blaming it on character. I see similar behavior in my students sometimes, and almost always there is an underlying issue that goes beyond slackig/being lazy.

 

I would look at how engaged the student is in pursuing the goals he sets himself, not the goals a parent has chosen. He may choose not to fulfill mom's goal; that doesnot make it a character flaw. He could possibly be a very strong willed, disciplined person who simply does not see the need to jump through hoops that do not further his goals. (I have one of those.)

 

.....THis is connected to is the issue of what he is doing now.  He should not be working in a restaurant and living at home.  If he does not get into trade school or attend college full time, then he should not be allowed to live at home.

 

So you think adults who do not pursue a further education should not continue to live with their parents?

I find this a very odd viewpoint. I agree that a young person should not be allowed to sit in the basement and play computer games, but being gainfully employed? There are many young people, including children of posters here, who "just" work.

 

 

Trust me, from someone who worked at restaurants for 7 years, there is something very fun and exhilarating about working in a restaurant.  It's very social; very dynamic, and not hard intellectually.  It's hard work physically and emotionally, so you get a real sense of daily and even momentary accomplishment - much more immediate than school or college! ....and if you show up and work hard your manager will truly love you so there's lots of appreciation.  It's the easy way out to feel accomplished in the moment without working toward the long term goals which take more patience such as college or even trade school.

 

I hear what you are saying, but I believe the above statement is very hurtful for those who have such jobs for life.

 

Or, there's the Miliatry.  Some kids are sick of college, they want to work hard and earn money.... but they still need direction...that is a specialty for the military!

 

For a young man with possible executive skills issues or emotional issues, the military seems an exceedingly bad idea.

Edited July 1, 2016 by regentrude

[teeterbunch]

Oh it's not "possible" executive skills issues, it's DEFINITELY EQ that is his bugaboo.  We're still trying to figure out how that plays out in achieving his own goals, versus educational goals that seem irrelevant to him.  I have a terrific book that helped us identify very specific areas of weakness, like "task initiation", but like any self-improvement goals, it takes maturity, accountability, and self-discipline to make progress.  Not exactly hallmarks of an 18-year old male. ; )

 

[teeterbunch]

Working in the restaurant business actually provided a big boost in confidence right when he needed it.  So it was a good experience for him.

 

 

[chiguirre]

I think at this stage in his life, he may regret not finishing his coursework, now that the reality of what that means is upon him.  So I think he would receive the diploma as an act of grace and appreciate the clean slate.  Of course, we don't want to rescue him from the lesson to learn here.  There in lies the rub, huh? : )

 

You can't rescue him from the CC disaster so he'll still face the consequences of his actions. They don't have to be your consequences.

[Arcadia]

Working in the restaurant business actually provided a big boost in confidence right when he needed it. So it was a good experience for him.

I have one late to mature and strong willed 46 year old male cousin. He did just enough to get a public school high school diploma. Worked in sales for about two years before going for his associates degree because he wanted to climb up the sales ladder. Then he did his degree after his associates and has been working as a well paid sales manager since his late 20s. He didn't have any idea what he wanted to do at 18 so he couldn't have make a long term plan even if he wanted to.

 

The restaurant/hospitality business has lots of promotion pathways. My uncle is a chef by choice. The hotel/resort restaurant managers earn a lot more and the job scope is a lot more too.

[hornblower]

  I have a terrific book that helped us identify very specific areas of weakness, like "task initiation", but like any self-improvement goals, it takes maturity, accountability, and self-discipline to make progress.  Not exactly hallmarks of an 18-year old male. ; )

 

Can you pls share the title of this book? 

 

 

[The Girls' Mom]

I would work up a transcript that fits state requirements, fill in with related experience/knowledge where needed.  Graduate him, and give him the diploma.  There is not productive reason to deny it at this point. It isn't as if he's grossly undereducated.

 

I graduated my oldest without her meeting our homeschool goals.  She scored well on the ACT, and was ready to move on.  I awarded a few credits based on knowledge, not actual classes taken.  She's in college now and doing just fine.  

 

 

[elegantlion]

I agree with reexamining your requirements. 

 

I would make him sit down with you and discuss what he has done and how that could be listed as a credit. Have him "argue" for earning his diploma. Ultimately, I would graduate him though. If there are big gaps, maybe set up a short-term project of some kind. 

 

I also agree with listening to Lee Binz, she has basic info on how to count irregular type of classes. She has a lot of information on her website. 

[AK_Mom4]

I am with the "work up a transcript and graduate him" crowd.  Some day he may choose to do the college thing and with that ACT score, I would feel confident that he has mastered the basic high school knowledge level for the core subjects.

[teeterbunch]

Can you pls share the title of this book? 

 

 

 

Smart, But Scattered for Teens

 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_9?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=smart+but+scattered+teens&sprefix=smart+but%2Cstripbooks%2C158

 

The Student EQ Edge (with workbook)

 

https://www.amazon.com/Student-EQ-Edge-Emotional-Intelligence/dp/111809459X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1467398211&sr=1-1&keywords=the+student+eq+edge

[teeterbunch]

This has been so helpful!  I can't thank you enough!!

 

If I apply the Mock Trial hours to English during his junior year, that rounds out the coursework for that class.  For senior year I will do the same, and include time he spent shadowing a professional mediator and volunteering for teen court.  Those activities combined with his ACT score should fit the bill.

 

Y'all are the best!

 

Ashley

[foxbridgeacademy]

If your 18 year old scored a 30 on the ACT, I would graduate him and be done with it. The purpose of education is (or should be) to turn out educated people, not to check boxes. He's clearly educated. As you said, if he decides later to pursue college, it's on him to deal with incomplete credits. But I don't see any value in hampering a bright, adult male by denying him a basic diploma.

:iagree:

 

He got a 30 on the ACT, I'd call that graduated.  He's making his own path and is obviously doing better with staying on task and completing his goals, I wouldn't hold him back because he had normal teen angst that just got out of hand.  

[...................]

I think this is exactly what appealed to him about the restaurant business.  Honestly, I just don't think he has the maturity yet to do long-term goals.  He was VERY late to mature physically, and his emotional maturity has matched that, while his mental capabilities zoomed ahead.  

 

My husband and I are not into giving a free lunch.  DS just finished serving at a counselor for Boys' State (they invited him back), then visiting his grandmas to help them with things around the house, and is currently pursuing a work/study program at a crafting (blacksmithing) school.  We consider that to be appropriately "engaged" for a gap year.  

 

I think at this stage in his life, he may regret not finishing his coursework, now that the reality of what that means is upon him.  So I think he would receive the diploma as an act of grace and appreciate the clean slate.  Of course, we don't want to rescue him from the lesson to learn here.  There in lies the rub, huh? : )

It's interesting about the physical maturity.  I do think sometimes kids emotional maturity happens at different rates!  Just like anything else.

 

Grace is good.

 

There is no easy answer.  You are a great mom, obviously and thinking hard thoughts about hard issues.  

 

And, thank God the truth is he is doing stuff with his life!!!

 

I only shared the dissenting thoughts (and to be honest my opinion isn't made- I am just sharing good thoughts and questions) because I just speak from personal experience, after getting the boot one sibling joined the Air Force and achieved Sargeant rank, the other moved out, rented a tiny studio, and worked all night putting himself through nursing school and is now an Anesthesiologist, the other went to a one -year prison guard program and SHE is now a MENS prison guard with excellent benefits and long term stability.....

 

Sometimes, kids need to get out and get real. It'll be clear to you in the next 6 months if what I said is starting to fit...whether he is just doing things his own way and his own time....that'll be clear.

 

Or if he is just following whatever interests him in the moment...

 

It doesn't sound to me like he has some kind of Executive Functioning Disorder, or depression. He is out there doing good stuff.  

 

(IMO FTR for a kid who doesn't have good long term goals the military is REALLY a great choice because- you don't have a choice! by the time you're done you've earned a career and scholarships.)

[Crimson Wife]

I actually had a Stanford classmate who had been a professional blacksmith. She was a former foster youth and H.S. dropout. In her mid-20's she decided to get her GED and enrolled in community college. She wound up graduating as valedictorian of the CC and transferred to Stanford. Now I wouldn't recommend the dropping-out-and-taking-GED part, but I wouldn't worry too much about the wanting to take a break from formal academics to do blacksmithing.

[Haiku]

Or, there's the Miliatry. Some kids are sick of college, they want to work hard and earn money.... but they still need direction...that is a specialty for the military!

Kids with executive function issues are actually a really poor fit for the military. I would strongly discourage this route.

[Haiku]

It doesn't sound to me like he has some kind of Executive Functioning Disorder, or depression. He is out there doing good stuff.  

 

My dd has executive function deficits and depression. She will enter her senior year of college this fall. Neither EF issues nor depression prevents you from "doing good stuff." They do, however, make the journey more challenging, and being flexible is a key to success in navigating them.

 

 

(IMO FTR for a kid who doesn't have good long term goals the military is REALLY a great choice because- you don't have a choice! by the time you're done you've earned a career and scholarships.)

 

It sounds like her son does have a long-term goal: he wants to be a blacksmith. He's 18; he doesn't have to have the rest of his life mapped out right now. Plenty of 18 year olds don't know what they want to do. I don't really think that trapping them in a "can't change your mind" situation that could lead to winding up in combat is a very good idea. If people are in the military, I think it should be because they choose to be in the military, not because they are shunted there to learn a lesson.

[regentrude]

Plenty of 18 year olds don't know what they want to do. I don't really think that trapping them in a "can't change your mind" situation that could lead to winding up in combat is a very good idea. If people are in the military, I think it should be because they choose to be in the military, not because they are shunted there to learn a lesson.

 

:iagree:

The (apparently fairly common) idea of sending teenagers who don't have a clear idea of what to do with their life into the military of all places seems very strange to me. I cannot quite see how living under strict orders and having somebody telling you what to do every minute of the day is conducive to figuring out what to do with life. I would think the latter requires the freedom to experiment with different things as well as time and room for quiet introspection, neither of which I imagine a military environment would provide.

 

How it is supposed to benefit a young man who has already demonstrated that he is not one to unconditionally obey and fulfill the goals others have set for him is beyond me. 

 

Never mind that the OP's son does have a goal and does not need "fixing".

Edited July 1, 2016 by regentrude