Need experienced folks to weigh in on what's reasonable to do/expect

[4KookieKids]

This fall, my kids will be 7, 5, 3, and 15 months, and I do daycare for another 3 yo (who's much more behaved than my own...). Right now, it's just about all I can do to manage home, juggle nap times, and keep them all fed (did I mention my kids eat 12 eggs, a loaf of banana/zucchini/etc bread, 2 lbs of various fruit, and two quarts of green smoothie with extra protein powder for breakfast most days and are hungry again an hour later?), not to mention trying to actually have a little fun with them.

 

Things that are important to us are: going outside, hiking, learning to swim, learning to cook, chasing bugs, playing with our spielgaben, coloring and crafting, etc. But I also know I can't completely neglect things that my Dept of Education say are also important (stuff like reading, you know?). :)

 

So I know I could drive myself crazy by insisting the oldest or older two do hours of "school" each day. And I also know I could let it all go and do nothing formal/structured and just keep chasing bugs and reading library books. But I'm wondering, from those of you with far more experience and wisdom than I have, what you have found is actually reasonable to expect both from myself and from my kids? I may have to modify it, to suit us (and because kiddos have some social/emotional/attention issues as well), but I'd like to see what the spectrum between my two extremes looks like, and where on that spectrum most folks feel is a healthy place to fall. Mostly I'm just looking for your experience: what worked, what didn't, etc. in a similar situation with young-ish kids.

 

My 7 yo reads well, and my 5 yo wants to know how (though it's not clear she actually wants to learn...) But The younger kids keep me awfully busy and don't amuse themselves very well!!

Edited July 1, 2016 by deanna1ynne

[nature girl]

I think you have your priorities straight. :)

 

I don't have much experience or wisdom, my DD is not quite the age of your oldest, but I know around here people use a gold standard of one hour per grade level, so they'd say your 7 year old should ideally have 2 hours (but that includes EVERYTHING even remotely schooly, I think.) Ideas of what a 5 year old needs will vary widely, but she's probably learning far more with you than she would with any formal schooling...In reality, for me (my DD also has attention issues) at 5 I did some schooling, but she picked up many things just through our play and conversations.

 

You might want to put this question in the Learning Challenges board, for a different perspective, because I think you'll get vastly different answers than you might here. Last year we got a diagnosis, I started to understand where all DD's issues were coming from and how really debilitating they might turn out to be if not addressed, despite her intelligence. So I spent more time on things like teaching social skills, emotional regulation and mindfulness--which I feel are more important to her future--than I did on any schooling. I completely ignored social studies, did some fun science and art when the mood struck us, but other than that it was 15-20 minutes of math, 5 minutes of handwriting, occasional story/journal writing (where I sometimes touch on other LA elements like grammar and spelling) and we spend a lot of time popcorn reading. And even more time gardening, looking at bugs, and taking rabbit trails based on the books we were reading. If we continue next year, I'll try to expand a bit, but probably not all that much. It's not quite what I imagined when I imagined homeschooling, I wish I could do more with her, but that's all her attention will allow for at this point, and really I think it's fine. She's developing into a knowledgeable, deep thinking little person, we have many discussions about the world, she has an awesome vocabulary and reads almost anything fluently and does math at grade level, all with that minimal schooling. And she has a ton of fun every day, and loves life. :)

Edited July 1, 2016 by Anna's Mom

[Arcadia]

The "formal" part of math took at most 30mins until 6th grade math. The workbook part of English was 30~45mins until 5th grade for grammar, vocabulary, handwriting and writing. My kids taught themselves to read thankfully because I am not a patient teacher.

 

What work was that my younger is an early riser so he could finish his work latest by 9am. My older wakes up late, after younger is already done for the day.

[4KookieKids]

So I spent more time on things like teaching social skills, emotional regulation and mindfulness--which I feel are more important to her future--than I did on any schooling.

Thanks for o your thoughts. Do you mind sharing more about what you did for this? Threeare issues I need to work on with some kiddos, but feel overwhelmed by the prospect. Currently seeing a good therapist, but still curious. :)

[busymama7]

I have learned the hard way that catching up on math later is much much harder then laying a strong foundation with small bits of math along the way. So for me, the non negotiable would be math every single day. I would not require it yet of the five year old but I would have it available. I actually skip K math and start 1st grade when the child turns 5. They are always so excited to have a math book like the older kids ;) Then we work through it really slowly over K and 1st with no pressure and when they are asking or at least not resisiting. By 2nd grade I expect daily math.

 

Next priority would be reading aloud for at least an hour a day from books higher than their reading level. This can be broken up in 3-4 chunks and can be from different books. I would attach it to meals, bedtime, quiet time etc. whatever is already happening so as to assure it gets done most days.

 

After that, I would begin small chunks of reading instruction for the 5 year old when it fits easily into the day and provide lots of books for the 7 year old that's already reading. The end.

 

For our family, I have found it better to start family scripture study right after breakfast followed immediately by our non negotiables. Then they are free. If they get up and head straight for long hours of imaginative play, it is really hard to impossible to pull them back. However, with lots of littles, you might find that nap/quiet time is a better time for short, concentrated lessons in math and reading.

 

I love some of the concepts of unschooling and have experienced some tastes of what it could be like. But what I have seen over the years of homeschooling (13) is that most are very underprepared in math and never can catch up. The exception to this was the family where both parents had degrees in math and they taught it very naturally through life. Most unschoolers do ok with reading and knows vast amounts of really awesome info and have great experiences. But those with dyslexia often go undiagnosed and it takes years of remediation to help them when teaching them in a OG program gently used in the early years consistently would have avoided that. So that is something to consider.

Edited July 1, 2016 by busymama7

[busymama7]

A few more thoughts:

 

A primary reason for doing some formal lessons in the younger years is to establish the habit and expectation of school work. I have seen many many times, families who at some point (after age 10 or 12 or so) decide that more formal schooling is required in order to meet their goals as a family or even the child's own goals. But the child has grown up with the expectation that only those things which are fun and/or their own idea is all that is needed. I have seen time and time again that these kids get sent to school because they don't respect the parent as an educator and the family did not set up the habits and expectations early. When the kids become teens, the pattern that is set becomes unsustainable. This is not always the case, but it is more common in my experience then the alternative, which is teens who choose to spend hours a day studying things they aren't excited about so they can get into college or whatever. It is much much easier to establish the expectation of formal schooling, the parent as a source of knowledge and authority and the habits of doing school daily in the early years then to attempt to change things later. All of these goals can be accomplished in very small doses daily leaving the majority of the day for play and life skills. But eliminating formal lessons all together can have consequences later that you may not be ok with.

[OnMyOwn]

For the 7 and the 5 year olds, an hour to an hour and a half total should be enough time to cover reading, writing and math. I overdid things with my ds, but that's what I did with my dd. She spent 20-30 minutes on Hooked on Phonics or Funnix for reading, 20 minutes on A Reason for Handwriting and 30 minutes on math, which was Rightstart some years and then CLE later. I did also read to the kids for about an hour a day and they listened to lots of audiobooks. I felt that was an important part of their education, but so easy to fit in by reading while they ate breakfast and/or lunch and by listening to audiobooks in the car or while they played. I only had two, so it was probably easier for me than it may be for you, though. I love all the other things you are doing with your kids. We spent hours on the playground during those years and did lots of fun field trips and crafts.

[OnMyOwn]

For the 7 and the 5 year olds, an hour to an hour and a half total should be enough time to cover reading, writing and math. I overdid things with my ds, but that's what I did with my dd. She spent 20-30 minutes on Hooked on Phonics or Funnix for reading, 20 minutes on A Reason for Handwriting and 30 minutes on math, which was Rightstart some years and then CLE later. I did also read to the kids for about an hour a day and they listened to lots of audiobooks. I felt that was an important part of their education, but so easy to fit in by reading while they ate breakfast and/or lunch and by listening to audiobooks in the car or while they played. I only had two, so it was probably easier for me than it may be for you, though. I love all the other things you are doing with your kids. We spent hours on the playground during those years and did lots of fun field trips and crafts.

 

And the time spent on formal schoolwork doesn't have to be all at once. I used to break it up a bit, but I did like to get it done in the morning to make sure that it got done.

[RoundAbout]

At a minimum I would require the 7 year old to spend 30 minutes a day reading, and then do a 20 minute reading lesson daily with the 5 year-old (Explore the Code or something else very scripted).  I would also do a 20-30 minute math lesson with each of them and have some good math games available - fun stuff like Zeus on the Loose, Sum Swamp, Shut the Box, etc.  Finally I would spend 10 minutes each with the 7 and 5 year old on penmanship.  I found that very focused attention on writing letters correctly with me at the elbow really paid off later.  

 

I would also just cultivate a family culture of learning with quality books, audio books, documentaries, puzzles, museum and library trips, etc.

[Verity]

I would recommend that you look into Charlotte Mason - the idea is having the kids spend lots of time outside and listening to good books, poetry, learn songs and folk tales. The older children definitely do need some time spent doing math but it can be as simple as them helping you count fruit for your smoothies, helping with the shopping. Basic number knowledge, addition and subtraction. Play Uno and other board games, let the oldest two help with the scoring. Junior Monopoly - teach them to be the banker. :)  Doing arts and crafts are a good way to develop hand strength and fine motor control. 

There are lots of (free) resources online, Ambleside Online gives reading lists, Simply Charlotte Mason sells pdf's and printed curricula.  

Mostly enjoy this time as best you can, expose them to lots of good words and literature and let them play and explore nature. :)

[Susan in TX]

We keep the elementary years very simple here. First, I don't think any formal academics is necessary before age seven. Most of my kids have started before then, but it was either because I was a young Mom and didn't know any better or they were wanting to do school because their older siblings were. Kindergarten year is spent just doing the first five Rod and Staff Preschool books. In first grade we start phonics, and learning to read is the main thing we work on. We also start a formal math curriculum in first grade but I have been rethinking the neccessity of formal math in the early elementary years. The only other thing we do in first grade is penmanship. All of this doesn't take much more than an hour a day.

 

We don't start Spelling or English until reading is well established, usually around 3rd or 4th grade. In my experience, English grammar can wait until 5th or 6th grade. And we don't do any formal science or history until middle school.

 

Susan in TX