Interactive Metronome

[ealp2009]

On 3/12/2018 at 11:44 AM, Heathermomster said:

Any metronome should work as long as it is set to 54 BPM.

So what is special about 54 BPM?  I'm just wondering.   I keep seeing that number and I can't figure out where it comes from. Thanks! 

[Heathermomster]

https://www.interactivemetronome.com/why-is-54-beats-per-minute-the-key.html

[4KookieKids]

What is considered "good" when doing IM? When she applies herself, my dd can consistently get within less than 0.10 seconds from the beat when we do the simple IM tapping app, and we've worked up her stamina to 8 minutes straight (not great, I know, but at least she *does* it.... We had to start her at 30 seconds of tapping, because she flat out refused to do it anymore. Then I got her doing it, and we've worked up to where we are by offering candy anytime she is < 0.10 away from the beat. But I'm wondering what I should actually be aiming for (given that this is not a formal IM at an OT or something). :)

[PeterPan]

What's the app?

[4KookieKids]

12 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

What's the app?

I posted it in one of these IM threads, but can't remember where now. We use this one:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/measuring-metronome/id676748179?mt=8

It works really well for us. I set the game on "tap" setting (so she has to actually *tap* 480 times right now, and can't just wait it out for 8-10 minutes). The only glitch I've noticed is that the words "fast" and "slow" are reversed, so it says "too fast" when it actually means you need to go a little faster. 

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, 4KookieKids said:

I posted it in one of these IM threads, but can't remember where now. We use this one:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/measuring-metronome/id676748179?mt=8

It works really well for us. I set the game on "tap" setting (so she has to actually *tap* 480 times right now, and can't just wait it out for 8-10 minutes). The only glitch I've noticed is that the words "fast" and "slow" are reversed, so it says "too fast" when it actually means you need to go a little faster. 

Ooo brilliant! I'll add that in next week. Love it. 

[4KookieKids]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Ooo brilliant! I'll add that in next week. Love it. 

We've really liked it. She started off much closer to 0.15 seconds off the mark. And she wasn't motivated. But candy rewards go along way over here... lol. :)

[exercise_guru]

Hi so I thought I would report back on our experience with interactive metronome. We are doing the Home version and I thought it might be helpful to give a little review and update. 

First I should say I am very underwhelmed with what I am getting for what I am paying. The good news is the therapist told me that most kids never need more than 15 sessions. Basically my son spends around 4 minutes clapping to 54 beats per minute then he spends around 4 minutes tapping his foot to 54BPM. For those of you that are thinking about the less expensive program ( I think it is beat box) it most certainly would do the same thing. 

The free option would be to get a good timer on an ipad like "Focus Time" and then use the app someone posted above. Start a competition where your child does it and then you do it to see how close the two of you can compete. 

I am not sure how to tell you when you would achieve your goal. I am required to plot all my sons data and he graduates when his scores fall in the 10-19 range. 

[PeterPan]

EG, what does it mean when his scores fall in the 10-19 range? How are they scoring?

I agree, your therapist sounds disappointing. The tech is only a starting point and the therapist's experience allows them to adapt to improve function. I've heard of MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more complex regimens being done than what you're being told to do. I did amazing things with my dd. It may really be the therapist. Or maybe that's his good starting point? I guess mooch and move on. Sorry this one is disappointing.

19 hours ago, 4KookieKids said:

We've really liked it. She started off much closer to 0.15 seconds off the mark. And she wasn't motivated. But candy rewards go along way over here... lol. :)

Oh I think my ds will be much farther off, lol. We'll see. He couldn't even do a single clap when we tried a few years but went into hyper-clap. 

[exercise_guru]

Sorry I was a bit negative I think I am getting Program/Therapy fatigue. 

OH the Therapist is good and she trained us thoroughly just compared to Fast Forword and vision therapy I would have expected a bit more as far as the visual interface. They keep it bare bones as to not be distracting. The system we have combines feet and hands to create a regiment that is supposed to last 45 minutes. Instead we are doing 30 minute sessions 3 times a week at home. Some of this depends on how motivated you can keep your child. My son hates tedious repetition so I am counting on doing this for 20 ( 30 minute sessions) and then moving on. It will take my cheerleader game face to get through those. 

As far as scoring it gives a percentage of accuracy and that would be very hard to track at home. The game also gives points for "bursts" ( These are 3 in a row or what the therapist sets it on) There is a visual screen that shows dots to the left and right. If you are straight on then it gives you feedback and if you are early the dot moves left, if you are late the dot moves right. This is the biofeedback element. It allows the student to adjust their tempo to nail the beat. There are also sound guides but they throw my son completely off and so we do not use those right now. The Audiologist recomended we focus intensely on "temporal processing" to work on keying the auditory system to sound and timing. This translates to understanding faster speech and context. 

IF this is effective and helps him I am going to be thrilled if not I am going to feel like a chump for dropping this money and time. Stay Tuned

The challenge I am having is finding a benchmark to know if we have achieved our goal.   My son has stealth issues that are hard to track. His benchmarks are harder to define. Yes  I can put him back in the auditory booth but there are only two benchmarks he is below average the rest have come up with Fast Forword so the journey continues. 

[4KookieKids]

5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 

Oh I think my ds will be much farther off, lol. We'll see. He couldn't even do a single clap when we tried a few years but went into hyper-clap. 

 Well, I don’t think the calculations include more than one error calculation for a beat, because it says something like you can only tap once per beat when she taps multiple times. And I also don’t think it counts As completely wrong if you just skip it and don’t try to tap at all. I think if those things were taken into consideration her scores would’ve been considerably further away from zero... lol

 

[PeterPan]

EG that's interesting that the addition of the auditory feedback challenges him so much. That's pretty telling. It doesn't sound like 20 or 30 sessions will do it and it doesn't sound like your therapist is making modifications to target the issues you're finding. You might think it through yourself, since you know him. You could break it into smaller pieces. For instance, I wanted my dd to be able to write, so I knew she needed motor planning, language, handling a distraction, and working memory. So we made more complex motor planning requirements using Heathermomster's instructions, adding in digit spans once she could do those, TALKED to her while doing all this, and had my ds running around or something on for noise for distraction.

So I'm wondering how you could target that auditory issue with the IM a bit, isolate it, make it simpler and more within reach, then build up or add it onto something else, kwim?

I would consider dropping it down to a more tolerable amount (15 minutes per day) but targeting portions of his brain more intentionally. Or do 15 minutes the boring way the therapist suggested and do 15 minutes at another session each day where you do your own ideas targeting portions of the brain. You'd be at 30 minutes but it wouldn't be arduous. Therapists I've talked with will do 5 minutes, go do something else, do another 5, etc. I'm with you that doing 30 minutes straight of the same boring, basic, unthoughtful activities isn't likely to get you very far.

[4KookieKids]

So using the IM-like app I linked above has made a substantial difference in dd's reading already. After just two months of using it several times a week, she has made reading leaps that were completely unexpected for us, honestly. We started it for stuff like working memory and other things that we were noticing, but it just occurred to me yesterday when she read twice as much as I had asked her to, and she did it cheerfully and with far less struggle than a few months ago. So I'm a big fan of this app, even if it's not exactly the same as actual IM!

[PeterPan]

That's amazing. I haven't even tried it yet, sigh. We're making a huge language push right now, so I'm buried in things for function, category, attributes, etc. LOL So when you say it is helping her reading, precisely how? It's improving her attention, her ability to focus, her ability to stick to it? I don't know, very interesting. That's really exciting. When dd had her $$$ psych testing years ago, something the neuropsych ran cranked out a score on stick-to-it-iveness. Dd's was bunk, lol. Seems like the metronome work would be good for that and that having it would help with sticking to hard tasks like reading. 

Any particular exercises you're doing with it? Heathmomster's sequence or did you create some of your own?

Well very good! Keep updating us.

[4KookieKids]

28 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

That's amazing. I haven't even tried it yet, sigh. We're making a huge language push right now, so I'm buried in things for function, category, attributes, etc. LOL So when you say it is helping her reading, precisely how? It's improving her attention, her ability to focus, her ability to stick to it? I don't know, very interesting. That's really exciting. When dd had her $$$ psych testing years ago, something the neuropsych ran cranked out a score on stick-to-it-iveness. Dd's was bunk, lol. Seems like the metronome work would be good for that and that having it would help with sticking to hard tasks like reading. 

Any particular exercises you're doing with it? Heathmomster's sequence or did you create some of your own?

Well very good! Keep updating us.

 

She is reading more cheerfully. She is making fewer mistakes And reading more fluently.  She is paying more attention and focusing better, as opposed to constantly being distracted by the pictures. She still spends a fair amount of time looking at the pictures, of course! ? But before, she spent more time looking at the pictures and the words, and now she spends more time reading the words, then looking at the pictures.Her working memory is awful, but I find she can remember the sentences she is reading more easily as well. Previously, she would often labor through reading a sentence, only to get to the end, and ask me to re-read the sentence she just read, because she couldn’t remember what it actually said. And earlier this week, she chose to read twice as much as I usually ask her to. Granted, the book was at a very interesting part! Nonetheless, she has never before read longer in an interesting part. Previously, she would only ask me to keep reading.   

We started just having her do it for 30 seconds per day at the beginning. Just the tapping itself. She can now do it for between 10 and 15 minutes. I don’t make her do anything else at the same time, but I have three other children, so the home is rife with distractions. ? Having a sucker to look forward to you afterwards keep her motivated.  Yesterday, she wanted to try typing while jumping on the trampoline, but she found that too difficult. So she sat on the trampoline, bouncing lately she tapped, instead. Her scores were definitely worse, but not too bad still.  Eventually, I do plan to add other kinds of training in. We’ve just had sick kids in the house, and a sick mama, so I have not been overly motivated the last week or two. 

 While it’s possible that her results are not linked to the IM app,   Because she did start violin lessons one month ago as well, I suspect it is more the app, because she has not learned very much on the violin yet And she has been tapping for around two months now. But I’ll just throw this out there for a full disclosure! 

[PeterPan]

I used Cusimano's Auditory Sequential Memory with my dd when we did metronome work, but it's hard to find now. Her other book for working memory is still affordable. Auditory Memory in Context Instructional Workbook:For the Development of Attention, Listening, Processing and Recall of Sentences and Paragraphs  I'm using it with my ds right now.