Dr. Hive-another thyroid thread. Tell me about this please

[TianXiaXueXiao]

I have seen a number of thyroid threads posted lately and it got me thinking about my health which lead me to ask my dr. for a thyroid panel. I was once treated by a integrative health md for underactive thyroid about 10 years ago. I was placed on low dosage Armour thyroid and took it for about two years before I decided that I didn't want to rely on a hormone replacement because I was worried that maybe my thyroid was really fine (I dunno :huh: ). Fast forward to now. I just got my results back and they are within normal (other than Vitamin D which is super low) but they are all low and not optimal: TSH (0.76 uIU/mL), Free T4 (0.95 ng/dL), Free T3 (2.9 pg/mL), Ferritin (45 ng/mL), and Vitamin D (15.0 ng/mL).

 

For those of you who know a lot about thyroid issues, is there anything I should be concerned about other than the Vitamin D? My doctor placed me on 50,000 IUs (once a week) of Vit D2 today which I am to take for 8 weeks.

 

Is it strange to have low tsh and low free t3 and free t4? Could these figures explain why I feel so awful and cannot lose weight despite serious effort?

 

Thank you!

[gardenmom5]

http://www.wellbeyond55.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/thyroidLevels_chart.jpg

 

this is a chart for what the optimal levels are.  you can compare your numbers to this.

read up on stopthethyroidmadness

 

I'm now seeing an ND, who has put me on naturthroid.

 

you also need to know what your cortisol levels are like.

 

eta: your tsh is "border"  - but everything else is low.  this is why responsible drs do not go by tsh.

 

what are you doing to raise your d3 level?  that is extremely low.  consider 50 a minimum.   d3 has been reclassified as a hormone (I got that from my pharmacist dd when it came up in discussion in one of her pharmD. classes.)  I'm currently using NOW 5,000IUs de3 in order to raise my levels.  

Edited June 28, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Ellie]

I have seen a number of thyroid threads posted lately and it got me thinking about my health which lead me to ask my dr. for a thyroid panel. I was once treated by a integrative health md for underactive thyroid about 10 years ago. I was placed on low dosage Armour thyroid and took it for about two years before I decided that I didn't want to rely on a hormone replacement because I was worried that maybe my thyroid was really fine (I dunno :huh: ). Fast forward to now. I just got my results back and they are within normal (other than Vitamin D which is super low) but they are all low and not optimal: TSH (0.76 uIU/mL), Free T4 (0.95 ng/dL), Free T3 (2.9 pg/mL), Ferritin (45 ng/mL), and Vitamin D (15.0 ng/mL).

 

For those of you who know a lot about thyroid issues, is there anything I should be concerned about other than the Vitamin D? My doctor placed me on 50,000 IUs (once a week) of Vit D2 today which I am to take for 8 weeks.

 

Is it strange to have low tsh and low free t3 and free t4? Could these figures explain why I feel so awful and cannot lose weight despite serious effort?

 

Thank you!

 

Your Frees are not optimal (although without your lab's ranges, I cannot tell for sure). IOW, it looks to me as if your thyroid really is not fine and you need hormone replacement. Never settle for "normal." That just means that most people's levels will be between *this* number and *this* one; it does NOT mean that everyone feels awesome within those numbers. You need to be optimal: Free T3 in the upper fourth of your lab's ranges; Free T4 in the upper half; TSH in the lower fourth.

 

If you feel awful, take the drug, preferably a natural desiccated thyroid (NDT) such as Armour, although there are others (NatureThroid and WP Thyroid, for example). You should start with one grain (60mg for Armour, 65 for NatureThroid) and increase it half a grain every 10 days to two weeks until you feel better (there are a few more steps involved, but that's where you should start).

[TianXiaXueXiao]

http://www.wellbeyond55.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/thyroidLevels_chart.jpg

 

this is a chart for what the optimal levels are. you can compare your numbers to this.

read up on stopthethyroidmadness

 

I'm now seeing an ND, who has put me on naturthroid.

 

you also need to know what your cortisol levels are like.

 

eta: your tsh is "border" - but everything else is low. this is why responsible drs do not go by tsh.

 

what are you doing to raise your d3 level? that is extremely low. consider 50 a minimum. d3 has been reclassified as a hormone (I got that from my pharmacist dd when it came up in discussion in one of her pharmD. classes.) I'm currently using NOW 5,000IUs de3 in order to raise my levels.

Thanks for the chart. I'll ask about cortisol. My doctor has me on 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D2. Should I see if he will change it to D3? What's the difference?

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Your Frees are not optimal (although without your lab's ranges, I cannot tell for sure). IOW, it looks to me as if your thyroid really is not fine and you need hormone replacement. Never settle for "normal." That just means that most people's levels will be between *this* number and *this* one; it does NOT mean that everyone feels awesome within those numbers. You need to be optimal: Free T3 in the upper fourth of your lab's ranges; Free T4 in the upper half; TSH in the lower fourth.

 

If you feel awful, take the drug, preferably a natural desiccated thyroid (NDT) such as Armour, although there are others (NatureThroid and WP Thyroid, for example). You should start with one grain (60mg for Armour, 65 for NatureThroid) and increase it half a grain every 10 days to two weeks until you feel better (there are a few more steps involved, but that's where you should start).

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

The standard range for Free T3 is 2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL and 0.89 - 1.76 ng/dL for Free T4. I purchased Thyroid Plus produced by Priority One today. I only took half the dose today but I don't feel any better. I'm not sure if my doctor will write me a script for rx strength since he is largely concerned with the Vitamin D deficiency. I will see him on Thursday. Do you have links to info I should take with me to the appointment? Thanks again!

[Ellie]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

The standard range for Free T3 is 2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL and 0.89 - 1.76 ng/dL for Free T4. I purchased Thyroid Plus produced by Priority One today. I only took half the dose today but I don't feel any better. I'm not sure if my doctor will write me a script for rx strength since he is largely concerned with the Vitamin D deficiency. I will see him on Thursday. Do you have links to info I should take with me to the appointment? Thanks again!

 

Free T3 should be above 3.7; Free T4 should be above 1.3.

 

Thyroid Plus might be a good supplement, but I'm pretty sure it is not going to address your symptoms as a prescribed NDT will. Most people don't start feeling better until they reach two grains (60-65 mg); many people feel better with three to five grains.

 

 

[Soror]

Your iron is low too the body needs iron for to use thyroid hormone. It looks the Thyroid Plus has some thyroid gland in it by the ingredients. I've not heard of that one, although I know there is some OTC NDT that you can order (although I thought all of them were overseas). It has a LOT of iodine in it, some say that is great and some say that is horrible.

 

Fwiw you can just buy D3 yourself, you can even get higher doseage amounts from Amazon.

[momacacia]

My doctor would want the ferritin on up also. I raises mine and my hair stopped falling out, even just when it got to 40, but evidently 75 or so is preferred for that.

[momacacia]

Difference between D2 and D3.

 

http://saveourbones.com/the-huge-difference-between-vitamins-d3-and-d2-and-why-you-should-never-take-d2/

 

Seriously, if I had a doc who put me on D2 instead of D3, I'd be looking elsewhere for a better doctor especially for something like thyroid care. The D3/D2 distinction has been well known by even educated lay people for close to a decade now.

Edited June 28, 2016 by momacacia

[gardenmom5]

Thanks for the chart. I'll ask about cortisol. My doctor has me on 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D2. Should I see if he will change it to D3? What's the difference?

studies have shown d2 will NOT raise your levels long term!!!!  (they will short term, but is misleading in the way it does so.  d2 hasn't been rec'd for years for D supplementation.)

 

switch to D3.   d3 is cheap - I use NOW 5,000IU gel tabs, it has an olive oil base, which is a more effective oil for delivery.

 

eta: I agree - I'd be looking for another dr.

Edited June 28, 2016 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

Your iron is low too the body needs iron for to use thyroid hormone. It looks the Thyroid Plus has some thyroid gland in it by the ingredients. I've not heard of that one, although I know there is some OTC NDT that you can order (although I thought all of them were overseas). It has a LOT of iodine in it, some say that is great and some say that is horrible.

 

Fwiw you can just buy D3 yourself, you can even get higher doseage amounts from Amazon.

 

I was on levothyroxin for close to a decade, and added in emerald laboratories bovine desiccated thyroid from new zealand.  (because I was still quite symptomatic, and my dr wouldn't increase my dose.  she wouldn't even run the tests I asked her to run. I switch drs.)  I ordered it from amazon.  it helped, was eventually taking 3 capsules daily in addition to the levo.

 

it  still wasn't as much Improvement as when I finally started naturthroid (I've got a rx in for WP.)  I finally switched to a naturopath, who treats to optimal - not the tsh of 4 (which is very high.)

 

eta: don't consider an OTC thyroid supplement for long-term.  you need rx (which will be both cheaper and more effective.   I was taking 3 capsules a day.)

 

NDT stays in your body for about 8 hours.  you will need one dose in the morning and one just after lunch.  you may not feel any difference until you have a higher dose.

Edited June 28, 2016 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

  I purchased Thyroid Plus produced by Priority One today. I only took half the dose today but I don't feel any better.  !

 

 

you only took half the rec'd dose.  it has some thyroid, but it doesn't say what the source is and you don't know the concentration. 

otc thyroid is generally weaker than rx forms.  so, you will need more.

 

porcine thyroid (used in rx NDT.) is more effective than bovine thyroid.

 

I was taking 3 OTC capsules a day on a split dose (2 am/1 noon) before starting NDT with a rx for synthetic t4 (levo).  the rec'd dose for that OTC was  2 caps.  we're still working on my NDT  dose.

 

also, thyroid med's do best on an empty stomach, and don't eat for a minimum of 30 minutes afterwards.  an hour is better. I chew my NDT tablets to increase absorption.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Your iron is low too the body needs iron for to use thyroid hormone. It looks the Thyroid Plus has some thyroid gland in it by the ingredients. I've not heard of that one, although I know there is some OTC NDT that you can order (although I thought all of them were overseas). It has a LOT of iodine in it, some say that is great and some say that is horrible.

 

Fwiw you can just buy D3 yourself, you can even get higher doseage amounts from Amazon.

 

Do I just take an iron supplement like Slow Fe to get the iron up? I will definitely ask to be put on an rx thyroid replacement and hopefully I won't need to find a new doctor. Thanks for the tip re: vitamin D!

 

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Free T3 should be above 3.7; Free T4 should be above 1.3.

 

Thyroid Plus might be a good supplement, but I'm pretty sure it is not going to address your symptoms as a prescribed NDT will. Most people don't start feeling better until they reach two grains (60-65 mg); many people feel better with three to five grains.

 

 

 

Thank you!

 

[Ellie]

Do I just take an iron supplement like Slow Fe to get the iron up? I will definitely ask to be put on an rx thyroid replacement and hopefully I won't need to find a new doctor. Thanks for the tip re: vitamin D!

 

 

This is how you know you won't need to find a new doctor:

1. He will order the proper labs (the ones I posted above)
2. He will prescribe NDT at the recommended beginning dose (60 for Armour, 65 for NatureThroid), and he will increase it as necessary (every 10 days to 2 weeks until you feel better).

If he will not do either of those, then move on. Seriously. You don't want to waste a minute of your health being improperly treated.