Not exactly new, but need help

[kozureokami]

I haven't visited this board in many years. It's strange being back as I never expected to be! I homeschooled my elder daughter through middle school, but she went on to public high school at Strath Haven in Wallingford. My younger daughter chose to go Strath Haven through middle school, and she has completed two years at the high school successfully from an academic standpoint, but she is not happy with her schooling for a variety of reasons. We are (at least provisionally) planning on a dual enrollment for her junior and senior years. She'll be taking math and science classes at the school, and I'll be teaching humanities and all the other leftovers :-).

 

I've been trying to make sense of the requirements for high school homeschooling. The problem I am having is that it is not really clear to me what we are required to do, given that she's had a public school education from 7th through 10th grade. It seems to me that we aren't really required to do much more of anything for her to graduate, particularly given that she's continuing with math and science at the high school. We actually want to do more--that's part of why she is choosing to homeschool for part of the day. But what I need to get clear is what we are required to do. Does it really boil down to which type of diploma we are looking to receive? (PHAA, Erie, etc.). So should I be looking at diploma programs instead of homeschooling regulations?

 

I'm hoping someone on this list can help. Just looking at Pauline's page on high school requirements isn't really helping that much because it's not clear to me what I can assume my daughter will have already completed in 7-10 that we no longer need to worry about.

 

Thanks!

Paul

[JanetC]

High school diplomas are a state-by-state issue. I would edit the subject of your post to "Need Pennsylvania help."

Here in Washington, you can do a parent-issued diploma after covering the 11 basic subjects required by our state law. If you are doing a parent-issued diploma, you need to follow your state law. If you are doing some sort of agency-issued diploma, the agency would tell you the requirements.

In addition to meeting diploma requirements, you should also look carefully at college admissions requirements. Here in WA, the homeschool diploma requirements are relatively simple, but many families beef them up to meet the "CADRs" required for admissions to the state university system. There are also high school requirements for NCAA that may apply if you have an athlete who wants to play in college.

[creekland]

What is she looking to do after high school?  Community college?  Four year college?  Something else?

 

We never used any sort of oversight program and had no problem getting our two high schoolers on to 4 year schools...  We issued our own transcripts and diplomas.  Since your daughter has been in a brick and mortar school, I assume she will have a transcript from there and yours will fill in gaps.

 

What you need to cover will depend upon what her plans are afterward.  If heading to college, one generally wants to see 4 years each of math/science/English/social studies, a minimum of 2 or 3 years of a foreign language, PE/health/Driver's Ed, "technology" (often a computer course), and whatever she wants for electives (music, art, wood shop, public speaking, etc).

 

You can also consider DE classes with your local community college IF she's ready for college level classes.  If you head this route, they will supply part of her final transcript.

[Mosaicmind]

Also, be aware that classes taken before 9th don't count towards credits needed to graduate, at least not in most states. I echo what the previous poster said, and find out what your state's requirements for graduation are and find out what college requirements are for those she's interested in.

 

Usually you need:

 

English LIterature- 4yrs, 4 credits

History: US, World, Govt, Econ, and geography- 3 1/2 credits

Science: biology, chem, physics, physical, earth--these vary and you need 3-4credits

Math: Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry, Pre-Cal, so on-- usually 3-4 credits

PE/Health: 1/2 credit each

Foreign Language: 2 years of 1 language 2credits, some states like mine this isn't required

Fine Arts/Music: 1/2 credit each but this varies

Speech: 1/2 credit but some states don't require it and it's sometimes blended in English

Electives: credits and classes vary, somewhere around 4-more credits

 

Look at HSLDA's website, they have lots of info.

[creekland]

ps  You don't necessarily need 4 years of each of the four core areas.  English is required.  The others can be tailored a little.  My middle son only had 3 years of Social Studies, but he completed World History in 8th grade and had 7 science credits rather than the typical 4.  We cut back on Social Studies to make room for his field of passion.  It worked just fine in admissions, though he was able to explain why he took less than four too.

[Lori D.]

Welcome back!
 

On 6/26/2016 at 11:04 AM, JanetC said:

High school diplomas are a state-by-state issue. I would edit the subject of your post to "Need Pennsylvania help."

If you are doing a parent-issued diploma, you need to follow your state law...

If you are doing some sort of agency-issued diploma, the agency would tell you the requirements...

In addition to meeting diploma requirements, you should also look carefully at college admissions requirements...

There are also high school requirements for NCAA that may apply if you have an athlete who wants to play in college...

JanetC is spot-on with each of these statements.
 

On 6/26/2016 at 10:48 AM, kozureokami said:

Just looking at Pauline's page on high school requirements isn't really helping that much because it's not clear to me what I can assume my daughter will have already completed in 7-10 that we no longer need to worry about...

To know what credits are required for THIS specific student:

First, get an official copy of your DD's high school transcript. This will list all of her credits and grades so you will know what she has already completed credit-wise in grades 9 and 10. (For high school graduation and college admission, all that really matters is what credits were completed in grades 9-12.)

Second, learn what credits are required by PA state law for homeschool high school graduation.

Third, if you choose to use one of the OPTIONAL PA diploma programs or a diploma through a "cover school", you may have additional requirements (required by the diploma program).

Fourth, look to any additional requirements you may have for future goals:
- specific requirements for admissions to a specific college/university
- specific requirements for entering a specific degree program or dept. at the college/university
- specific requirements for eligibility for playing NCAA sports in college

As far as a diploma, the "Ask Pauline" website does a great job of laying out all of your options:

1. parent-awarded diploma

2. supervisor-awarded/evaluator-signed diploma

3. PA homeschool organization diploma program

4. "cover school" non-PA diploma program

5. correspondence or private cyber school diploma

 

To decide which diploma option DD needs: I would strongly suggest looking ahead to what college/university your student may wish to attend after graduation:

 

#1 = The vast majority of colleges, as well as all branches of the US military, accept parent-awarded diplomas and transcripts with no extra requirements. Sometimes a minor extra paperwork  "hoop" has to be jumped.

 

#4 & #5 = a very small number of colleges require of homeschoolers either an accredited diploma or several major paperwork hoops; most of these schools are in NY and PA. If you know your student will be applying for admission to one of these "sticky" schools, going with option #4 or #5 makes admissions go much more quickly/smoothly for homeschool applicants. Note: option #3 does NOT have the specific regional accreditation required by these colleges, and so it may or may not be accepted by these colleges.

 

#2 = I have not heard anyone post about this option re: college admissions, so I don't know if this option has cleared some of the college admission hurdles at that small handful of "sticky" schools or not. See this excerpt from a past thread for more info about option #2:

"...PA is always confusing… There are currently 10 associations that sell state "recognized" homeschool diplomas.  PHAA is only one of them. NONE of them are accredited... These diplomas are ONE way for proof of graduation for state college aid.  There are other ways… [PA] recently passed a new homeschool law (Oct 31, 2014).  Part of the new law has to do with parent issued diplomas… [so they] now... get all of the rights of a public school diploma… I wrote this part of the law, modeling it after a change to the TN homeschool laws in 2009… The new law gives a parent issued diploma all of the rights and privileges.  The supervisor (legal name for parent or guardian) must get a standardized form from the PA Dept of Ed and then the 12th grade evaluator signs it. Here is a link to the bill and language: http://www.legis.sta...&type=B&bn=1013" -- posted by Maryalice, in post #30 of the thread "Does anyone receive a diploma from the state?"

So, to start your planning process:

1. From DD's high school transcript, list what credits DD has already completed in grades 9 and 10.

2. From 24 P.S. Â§ 1327.1(d), PA state requirements for homeschool high school graduates: compare with what DD has already completed  in 9th and 10th grades in #1, to see what is still required from the PA state requirements:

4 years = English
3 years = Math
3 years = Science, with labs
3 years = Social Studies
2 years = Arts and Humanities
5 Electives

Further, from Chapter 5 (Curriculum Requirements) of the State Board of Education.  24 P.S. Â§ 1327.1©(2), while it is up to each family to plan how/when to meet minimum requirements, these subjects must be taught at some time during grades 7-12:

- English, to include language, literature, speech, composition
- Science
- Geography
- Social Studies,  to include Civics, World History, History of the US and Pennsylvania
- Math, to include general math, algebra, geometry
- Art and Music
- PE, Health, and Safety Education

Of those subject areas, you would likely want to include the Algebra, Geometry, Civics (Gov't) and History of the US as part of your high school studies (if DD hasn't already completed those at her school), as those are specific courses frequently required by colleges for admissions. (You already know from the list above you are required to do 4 years of English, and 3 years each of Science, Social Studies, and Math, and 2 years of Arts & Humanities, so if DD already covered Geography, Music, PE, Health and Safety in middle school, you won't need to re-do any of those in high school.)

At a guess, for 9th/10th grades, DD has probably completed these PA state graduation requirements:

2 years = English
2 years = Math (Algebra 1 and Geometry)
2 years = Science (possibly Biology and Chemistry)
2 years = Social Studies
2 years = Arts and Humanities
possibly 2 years = Electives

That would leave her with needing the following JUST for high school graduation:

2 years = English
1 year = Math
1 years = Science, with labs
1 years = Social Studies (possibly still needs Civics and/or Amer. Hist.)
possibly = 1-2 Arts and Humanities
possibly = 2-4 Electives

3. Blend in college admission requirements with the above high school graduation requirements.
You do this by looking up the specific freshman admission requirements on the websites of a number of colleges that your student might be interested in attending, and list the college requirements along with your high school graduation requirements from #1 and #2 above. Just as a rough guide:

Admission requirements to a majority of colleges:
4 credits = English
3-4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geometry, Alg. 2, and a 4th math with Alg. 2 as pre-requisite)
3-4 credits = Science, with labs (some schools require Biology and Chemistry)
2-4 credits = Social Science (many require 1 credit = Amer. Hist.; some require 1 credit World Hist. or 0.5 credit each Gov't and Econ)
2-4 credits = Foreign Language (same language)
1 credit = Fine Arts
4-8+ credits = Electives (ex: Health, PE, Computer Science, Vo-Tech, Bible/Religious Studies, "academic electives" (add'l credits above requirements in first 5 subjects), additional Fine Arts, credits in personal interest subjects, etc.)
22-28+ credits total

At a guess, for 9th/10th grades, DD has probably completed these college admission requirements:

2 credits = English
2 credits = Math (Algebra 1 and Geometry)
2 credits = Science (Biology and Chemistry)
2 credits = Social Socience (possibly Amer. Hist. and/or Gov't. (Civics) )
2 credits = Arts and Humanities (if performing/visual arts, then that completes the Fine Arts requirement; depending on what it is, Humanities might be counted by colleges as Social Science)
possibly 2 credits = Electives

That would leave her with needing the following in 11th and 12th grades for college admissions:

2 credits = English
1-2 credits = Math
1-2 credits = Science, with labs
1-2 credits = Social Science
2-4 credits = Foreign Language (unless has been an elective already taken in 9th & 10th)
Electives

Notice this list is almost identical to what DD probably needs to complete for a PA diploma, with the exception of this list requiring Foreign Language -- but note, Foreign Language is a great Elective for the PA requirements, so, again, you're getting a lot of overlap, which should leave DD room for pursuing an area of special interest.

4. Add in any credits required by possible specific future goals.
This requires more research to determine if your DD needs extra coursework or credits to meet requirements for future goals. So on top of the blended high school graduation requirements and college admission requirements, add in:

- any credits of special interest to your student
- extra STEM courses if your student is headed for a STEM field
- extra Fine Arts if your student is headed towards a Fine Arts program.

Also realize that if shooting for admissions to a top tier/ivy league school, or to a highly competitive or selective school, your student will need some AP courses, or additional courses beyond the requirements, as well as extracurricular activities and community service/volunteering to help her "stand out" and "be an interesting student" in the admission process.

Another possibility: will your DD be doing high school and college sports? You'll need to look at homeschool NCAA regulations on eligibility for 11th/12th grade -- specific credits are required AND only certain/limited materials are accepted. Now is the time to find out what their requirements are so you have the next 2 years to work those into the mix, if you are missing any of their specific credits done their specific way.

On top of any additional credits needed for future goals, be sure to schedule time during grades 11 & 12 for:

- PSAT test in 11th grade -- high scores lead to potential National Merit scholarships
- ACT or SAT test in 11th grade or EARLY 12th grade -- used for college admissions, scholarship awards
- AP courses/tests (only if needed) -- used for admission to competitive colleges, possible college credit
- SAT Subject tests (only if needed) -- required for admission by a few colleges, backs up homeschool transcript
- extracurriculars, community service/volunteering, etc. -- helpful for admission to selective colleges, possible scholarship application essays

Other points to consider in determining your high school credits:

Dual credit (with a community college or university):
Frequently a 1 semester college course = 1 YEAR high school credit -- esp. for 4-unit and 5-unit courses in Foreign Language, Math, and Science. Some 1-semester college courses that are 2-unit and 3-unit courses, such as Study Skills, Public Speaking, or even some Writing and Humanities courses (depending on volume/rigor of course material) will only equal 1 SEMESTER of high school credit.

"Bringing up" credits from middle school:
Only courses that progress in rigor and where the student continues to advance in the progression in high school tend to be "brought up" from middle school (gr. 6-8) -- so, Foreign Language of high school level; Math = Algebra 1 and above; Science = Biology and above. Because English, Social Studies, Fine Arts, and Electives do not have a similar sort of clear progression, these courses are not "brought up" from middle school and counted on the high school transcript.

Another important point: many colleges only accept credits taken in the 4 years before graduation towards their admission requirements, so if your American History was done in 7th or 8th grade, it would not be counted, and your student would be lacking a credit frequently required for college admissions. Also, if your student took Biology or Algebra 1 in 8th grade, colleges *expect* to see 4 more math or science courses in high school that continue to progress in rigor and level -- colleges do not look so favorably on a student counting Algebra 1 or Biology done in 8th grade, and then only doing 2 more math or science courses and "coasting" in 12th grade. (Note: a student who is doing virtually all dual enrollment of college-level courses in a specific field that does not require the additional math or science is a different case entirely, and very accepted by most colleges.)

AP and/or SAT Subject Test Scores
Your student may need/want to take a few AP courses and tests if applying to a competitive or selective school. You can do online AP courses, or design your own AP course at home, but you must sign up online and test at a school offering the test -- not all schools offer all tests each year. If planning on this, NOW is the time to find a school that gives the test and that will have room for or allow your student to test with their student -- it can take quite a bit of effort and time to find a testing location. Also, if you wish your course title on the transcript to say "AP", you need to either use a pre-approved AP syllabus, OR, create your own syllabus of materials and submit it to College Board AP for approval in order to use "AP" in your course heading.

And, some colleges require 2-3 SAT Subject Test scores (in addition to a regular SAT or ACT score for admission). About 30 colleges (mostly Eastern schools) require SAT Subject scores from all applicants, and another 2 dozen or so require SAT Subject scores just from homeschool students, to verify homeschool grades on the transcript. So this is a good time to find out if your student is going to need any SAT Subject tests, so you can look up the testing dates/locations for next year, as not all tests are offered at all locations on all dates.

There's a LOT of info to absorb when you take on being your student's high school counselor / administrator, and there are going to be OODLES of variables and differences depending on your state requirements, your student's future goals, and options available to your locally.

BEST of luck as you wade into all of it! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Lori D.

[kozureokami]

To all of you, thank you. (I would put a number of exclamation points after that, but they always seem insincere to me when I see them on posts, and I am sincerely thankful). Lori D., your post is more than helpful, it is indispensable. I feel like someone has reached out to a person (me) stumbling in the woods in the dark and yanked him onto a path.

[Lori D.]

On 6/27/2016 at 3:28 AM, kozureokami said:

To all of you, thank you. (I would put a number of exclamation points after that, but they always seem insincere to me when I see them on posts, and I am sincerely thankful). Lori D., your post is more than helpful, it is indispensable. I feel like someone has reached out to a person (me) stumbling in the woods in the dark and yanked him onto a path.

Glad it was of help --I feared I was more hitting you with a fire hose of information and knocking you flat. ?

As you move forward in this process of transitioning to homeschool high school, DO feel free to post all of your questions, big or small, as there is almost always someone who has gone there before and can help. ?

Since you now are moving into the role of high school administrator/counselor, you might find the pinned threads at the top of this board of help.

Again, welcome back to homeschooling and to WTM boards, and enjoy your high school journey! ? Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Lori D.