Earning money to pay for camp question

[skimomma]

My 12 yo dd plays the violin.  She won a scholarship last summer to attend a well-known music camp.  We paid the remainder of the balance.  We could "technically" afford it but are really not in the income bracket where regularly paying for this type of camp is wise.

 

She won another scholarship this year.  When it was time to decide and register, dh and I hemmed and hawed over it because we cannot really justify this expense annually.  In addition, dd needed a new violin this year which we purchased.  This has put an additional strain on our budget (not that we would EVER tell dd this, it is very worth it to us).

 

Dd also plays in a band that has many paying gigs.  The deal from day one of this gig-playing was that the money she earned was to be saved to spend on music-related items.  If it was not used for that, it is to be put in her college savings account.  She babysits and catsits so is always flush with cash and regularly contributes to her savings account.  The gig money is not needed for normal pocket cash.  Dd has used her gig money to buy amplification equipment, a better case for her violin, a violin stand, uniforms for camp, etc.....  

 

We discussed the camp expense with dd before registration this year and she offered to pay the balance of the camp tuition from her gig money.  I expected there would still be a balance leftover and agreed with the understanding that we would cover whatever she could not.  This seemed like a good compromise since we do pay for lessons, transport to gigs, fees for orchestra, chamber groups, workshops, etc....., and instruments.  The camp is a lot of fun for dd.  She loves being around others who like music as much as she does.  But she is not musically challenged by the camp's programs.  So I consider it purely fun/social with no significant "educational" component.

 

Now it is time to pay the balance.  Dd has earned the full amount!  She is very proud of this.  But I am suddenly feeling guilty.  Like who makes their 12 yo pay for their own music camp?!?  

 

What would you do?

 

1.  Honor the original agreement and pay the balance with her gig money?

 

2.  "Sort of" honor the agreement and pay the balance ourselves secretly putting some or all of the money in her college account?

 

3.  Pay the balance ourselves, come clean with dd, and put the gig money in her college account?

 

My gut wants #3 since it seems downright mean to ask a 12 yo to contribute to summer camp but it is not sustainable for us annually.  I fear we would be facing the same thing next year.  #2 is a good compromise since we can address it financially from year to year.  But seems sneaky.

 

I know there is no right or wrong, just wondering what others who know what it is to be a little cash-strepped would do.

 

[J-rap]

I think it's fine!  Each family can do what they need to do, to make it work.  Our kids were great swimmers locally, but we couldn't afford the expensive summer camp that most other kids seemed to go to.  That's just the way it was. We discussed with our kids, and they were fine with that.  One year though, our son had a part-time job where he could pay for half, and that's what he really wanted to do.  We paid the other half.  Everyone was happy.

 

Another year, my girls paid for half of their church camp.  That was great!  They did it with babysitting money and so forth.  They were so happy that they could go, and that we could pay part and the church could pay part.  They actually have only good memories about being able to take on some of those expenses themselves! 

 

I wouldn't give it another thought.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

If it puts a strain on your finances (which btw I think you should be honest about, but that's another discussion), then let her pay for it.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

FWIW, at 12 I had to use money earned to buy necessities (clothing, school related costs, etc.).  So this to me is not a big deal.  I never really felt it was fair I had to pay for necessities, but for a pure want?  I see nothing wrong with that.

 

 

[Rachel]

Since it is an extra, I would have her pay. Honor your original agreement. If it wouldn't make your budget tight that's a different story.

 

I always paid for camps myself growing up. In high school that began to get expensive but my parents couldn't afford to pay for all the kids to do everything extra that we wanted to do.

[mommyoffive]

I think it is great.  Really.  Kids these days need to work for things they want.  

 

And wow for having a 12 year old who has all these ways to earn money.  Awesome.

I would be proud of her and not feel guilty about it.  Most likely that would be something I would have to do with having 5 kids.  But it is something that I am going to do no matter what.  I have told the kids we will not be buying you a car ever.  If you want one then you can get a job and start saving for it.  

 

You are doing awesome if you have instilled the work ethic already in your kid.

[SemiSweet]

I think it's fine too, and super awesome that she was able to do it!  

[J&JMom]

If you can truly afford the camp, then I would phrase is as though we would match the amount she earned toward camp into her college fund as a reward for her hard work and discipline to save for camp.  

 

My family is big into Scouts and my oldest is coming of the age to do the 'high adventure' read, expensive, camps and activities.  We will pay for local camps (~$250 a week) and reasonable activities (up to $50).  If he wants to do others, then he needs to raise the funds to do. You can earn Eagle and enjoy Scouts without the frills, but also teaches the lesson, that if you want it bad enough - you will do what it takes as many in our troop do earn thousands in fundraising.  

[fairfarmhand]

Because we have four kids we never committed to paying for camps 100%. WE made them earn/save half the amount and we paid the other half. This also determines whether or not they really want to go.

 

BTW, my kids start going to camp at age 10. And they've been contributing since then.

 

Some years, we make them pay their half and they do so happily.

 

Some years, we pay the whole thing and they're always grateful and surprised.

[Grantmom]

It sounds like she is excited at the prospect that she earned enough to pay for it.  If that is the case, I would absolutely let her!  Like you said, it's not like she is singing for her supper!  You pay for many other things that go towards her care and her music, and if you think she is empowered by the fact that she can really pay for it "all by herself", let her!  Stick the equivalent amount into her college fund if it makes you feel better.  But I sort of look at kids' money as their money, and let them make the decisions.  At least at 12, I mean.  If you think she feels loathe to give up that much of her hard-earned cash, then tell her you'll go 50-50.  But from your post, it sounds like she was proud that she had enough money to pay for it.  I would not take that feeling away from her.  You will be there to pay for the next thing that comes along.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Grantmom

[Carol in Cal.]

I'd tell her that you're really proud that she managed to earn so much, and that as a reward you're going to put half of the 'difference' into her college fund.  

 

Also, just in general, regarding the scholarship, I kind of view getting a competitive scholarship as 'earning' as well.  (Not that I would match it, but I would totally position it that way to her, because it's both an honor AND an accomplishment.)

Edited June 24, 2016 by Carol in Cal.

[EmilyGF]

I think it is great. I paid for my own girl scout camp when I was in third grade. It creates a sense of ownership and pride as well as confident and independent children.

 

Emily

[FriedClams]

We had a similar deal here. Kids needed to pay for TKD black belt test. They started mowing lawns...hustling...working hard...and easily made 100% of their testing fees.

 

So, we paid the fee and put their money into their long term savings account. (FWIW lawn mowing was the first time they've made any "real" money. They don't babysit, no grandparents donating, etc...) We wanted to see the effort, character, and initiative. We needed to see hustle. They did it. In spades. We were very impressed. They were extremely grateful for the gift. We're all good with how it worked out.

[Renthead Mommy]

Nothing wrong with her paying for it at all. Most Boy Scouts pay for their own summer camp. That is the point of Boy Scout popcorn sales. They are raising money to pay for camp and equipment if they have money left over.

 

We could easily pay for him to go to camp, but we don't. He has the opportunity to earn the money, so he does. Do I enjoy sitting in front of Walmart hell while they sell popcorn? Not in the least. But it is worth it to me for him pay for it.

 

And the boys are well aware how much camp costs. They get a breakdown of what they made from sales. And how much camp and dues and all are. To pay for things out of their accounts, they have to give the finance person a wrtten note saying the wish fir $X dollars to be taken from their accounts for camp.

[kroe1]

The problem with letting a child follow a passion is almost always the financial strain on the family wallet. While I would always think families should not start what they cannot endeavor to pay, it is what it is. No one should have to go in debt for a child's passion. Therefore, if you are cash strapped, then let her pay.

[bettyandbob]

I paid for my own camp at 13. It was field hockey at a university. Most if the girls from my public school team were going.

[cjzimmer1]

I'd have her pay the whole thing.  She wanted to go, you agreed she would pay, she is PROUD of her accomplishment and you are stretched to pay for it.  It will mean so much more to her because she knows how hard she had to work to achieve it.  I would NOT take away her accomplishment by giving her money now.  I see nothing wrong with making a 12 year old earn money for something like that.  Under that age I pay for my kids camp and they have to provide their own spending money.  At 12 and up, I pay for half of camp and they pay for half and they still provide their spending money.  I think it's a great way to teach kids responsibility.

[marbel]

I would have her pay for it.   As others have said, she may end up very pleased that she did it.

 

My daughter has a part-time job (and is quite a bit older) but she pays for a lot of things that her dad and I would typically pay for.   She's very happy to be able to contribute that way.

[mom2scouts]

I think it's great! Obviously she enjoys the camp enough to use her own money to go.She's learning to work for what she wants and she's proud that she's able to do it. It's a great life lesson, so let her pay.

[Donna]

I would allow her to pay for it. I think working toward a goal and earning their own money helps kids take ownership and learn the value of their work.

 

My kids have always used their gig money to help pay for music related expenses that, as a family, we could not have afforded otherwise. Ds2 is 18 and fully funds his own music expenses and camps with gig money.

 

My dd attends a camp every summer for which she received a full scholarship a couple times. Now she "works" at that camp to pay her way. She uses her gig money to help with her other camp and her own travel expenses to Europe for competition. She paid for half her full size fiddle and has purchased an expensive travel case and a bow she wanted (she busked in Ireland for that one). Any money she has left over goes in her bank account.

 

 

[skimomma]

Thanks all!  I should not have second-guessed myself.  I was feeling bad after getting a bit of a tongue-lashing from another parent about it being cruel to make a kid pay for what parents "should" provide.  I paid for my own camps starting around this age.  I also paid for my own car and clothing as a teen.  It was never a question.  For a brief moment I thought that camp was a "should."  Good to get some perspective.

 

We will stick with the original deal.  I don't think we will even slip in half since we really cannot afford it tis year after buying a new instrument.  Perhaps in future years.  Dd is very proud of earning it herself and I think that might be diminished if we chip in after all.

[Donna]

While I would always think families should not start what they cannot endeavor to pay, it is what it is. 

 

I would think many families begin things having no idea where they will lead. Not every activity a child begins ends up becoming a life-consuming passion requiring huge time and money commitments.

 

Our family has been involved in so many different activities over the years…soccer, wrestling, dance, taekwondo, and music. I asked the kids to pick an instrument to learn and figured they'd take their weekly 30-60 minute lesson and practice 30-60 min a day…that's what happened with me and it is what we could afford. We had no idea that our kids would be passionate about it and the costs involved…I didn't even know the Irish traditional music world existed when the kids were young and having a child talented in classical (or any) music was not even on my radar…didn't happen in "my" world.

 

I think it is the rare family who can afford to fund participation at the highest levels of skill but it is the rare family who needs to be able to do it because the majority of kids do not reach those levels. If every family limited their children's participation in things thinking about what costs might be if their child reached those highest levels, there would be very, very few people enjoying musical instruments, dance, or sports and enjoyment comes from participation at all levels of skill. 

[skimomma]

The problem with letting a child follow a passion is almost always the financial strain on the family wallet. While I would always think families should not start what they cannot endeavor to pay, it is what it is. No one should have to go in debt for a child's passion. Therefore, if you are cash strapped, then let her pay.

 

 

Hmmmm....  With this logic no parent should ever let any kid follow any passion since there is always a minuscule chance that they will take it far enough that even a wealthy family would run out of resources.

 

"Cash-strapped" means after paying very significant costs for a year of private lessons, workshops, chamber groups, transportation to gigs, strings, music, etc.... we are out of "reasonable" funding for camp.  A camp that is very much optional but that dd wants to attend.  I hardly consider that "start what they cannot endeavor to pay."  

 

When we started dd in violin lessons at age 4, we very much endeavored to pay for the lessons and instruments necessary to continue through age 18, taking into account that those things would increase in cost over time.  I don't count optional camp within the commitment.  

 

The quoted statement was very similar to the tongue-lashing I got that made me question our agreement in the first place.  It came from someone with almost unlimited financial resources so I should have just ignored it.

[Lecka]

I think she is probably proud of herself and will feel good about the whole thing.

 

If she hadn't earned enough, then I would be in favor of saying "you tried, you did good" and paying the balance.

 

But since she did do it on her own, I think, good for her! It is a nice accomplishment for a young person her age!

 

I was surprised to find out that most other parents expect their sons to earn some/most/all of their Boy Scout camp money. I did not know. It turns out it is normal/common here, and people think their sons will like it even more b/c they did some work towards going.

 

I think it does seem a little weird, b/c you have a desire and willingness to have her go to the camp and pay for it!

 

But I think what you are doing seems very positive.

 

But it seemed strange and cold to me when I first heard this about the Boy Scout camp thing, so I understand it sounding that way. But I think a lot of this is the age. Twelve is starting to be an older age, with kids able to be more responsible. It is more appropriate, I think, but it is on the young side of it being very appropriate (it is a big change from elementary school that I didn't see coming).

 

I think twelve can still seem little, or it can seem big.

 

I think the person who spoke harshly to you might still see your daughter as little. I don't think it is okay, but that is a guess I have.

 

Edit: I didn't read previous posts before. I agree with others :) My oldest just turned 11 and I am still getting used to this idea that he is in an age bracket where he can have this kind of responsibility and then the accompanying pride. I feel like "isn't he still a little guy?" about it, but really he is getting there. He is the youngest in his Boy Scout troop, and I have not really adjusted to it.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Lecka

[bettyandbob]

While I would always think families should not start what they cannot endeavor to pay, it is what it is.

This logic suggests one shouldn't encourage any activities with fees. I know that I never would have predicted our current financial state when my dc were young and beginning to dabble in activities.

 

I think it's ok to let children find things they are passionate about and be honest about costs as things progress. If the child is passionate enough to figure out how to cover costs, then that is a sign of the program's importance to the child.

[bolt.]

I'd be really proud of her and let her pay for the camp from her earnings -- AND, say, "We managed to put aside a reasonable amount for this goal too, so I'll be putting that money into your college account, since you've got camp covered." Then she feels both like she earned her own way, and like she was given a gift/reward for being that awesome.

Edited June 24, 2016 by bolt.

[GailV]

The girls in dd's ballet classes pay for at least part of their summer intensives themselves -- and we live in a relatively affluent area.  They spend months discussing ways to earn money, sharing ideas with each other.  It's part of the culture.  

 

One of the big stories of our dance school is that when the head teacher was a girl she baked and sold bread to raise money to go to several weeks of summer intensives (I think this included purchasing transportation tickets, getting herself there by herself at about the age of 13, etc.).  If you know this woman, she has little interest in baking, but she ADORES ballet and was determined that her life would center on dance.  I think she told the story to let the kids know that if they want to attain their goals they need to focus on doing all they can to attain the goal, not just in dance class but in many of the choices they make.

[MistyMountain]

I would let her pay for it and not feel guilty. She is proud of herself do not feel bad. It is tight for your budget and she earned the money for it playing music. I think it is good for kids to earn things themselves. I also tell my kids about stuff being expensive and how the budget is tight. They can handle it. I grew up with knowing things were too expensive and I think it helped me as an adult with budgeting.

[scoutingmom]

I also agree to let her pay for it. You paying for it would take away her accomplishment of earning it, and also put into question your earlier statement that it was too much for your budget.

 

My 4 kids did all the fundraising for the 2 oldest to go to Scout camp. (We fundraise as a family... the youngers have a cute factor well worth it... when they are all older, the older ones will provide supervision and possibly transportation abilities to the fundraising.)

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[Seasider]

I would have her pay. That was the deal, she rose to the challenge. That's a wonderful accomplishment and she should be praised for that achievement.

 

If you feel guilty, remember that you will still be paying for lessons, the next new instrument, etc.

[JessReplanted]

Don't feel guilty. Congratulate your daughter for her hard work. FWIW our son contributed to his camp expense last year.

[maize]

Let her pay it and take pride in her ability to do so.

[TechWife]

Let her pay it and take pride in her ability to do so.

Exactly this! Don't even think about diminishing her hard work!

[StephanieZ]

For goodness sake, follow through and let your girl enjoy the pride she will find in earning such a significant thing. Feel free to set aside the money if you wish (towards college, the next music camp, etc), but definitely let her follow through!

 

And, next time, if you don't want/need her to contribute 100%, you can tell her that you'll match her contributions . . . You can even match scholarship earnings if desired. Or do a 2/1 match if an even match is too much. I did the 50/50 match with dd who also earned lots of $$ playing music. Seemed comfortable to me, and I really liked the kids having some "skin in the game" when making these big investments in summer camps. 

[myfunnybunch]

She worked really hard for this. Don't take that away by paying for it yourselves. :)

 

If you have the resources to pay all (or part) now, why not set it aside for next year? If she falls short next year (or the next....), you've got the funds set aside already. If she ends up never using the money, then it can go toward her college fund or a new instrument or more lessons or back into your own account.

[MrsWeasley]

My six year old is saving money to attend a Suzuki Institute next year. He really wanted to go with his friends from his music school this year, but I don't have the money. I feel bad about it, but mostly because I can't make it happen this year. I don't think it's mean asking him to pay for it next year. If I didn't, he wouldn't be able to go. I think it's the same for your daughter. Letting her pay this year means that next year you have the money to let her go, even if she doesn't make as much money.

[Haiku]

My gut wants #3 since it seems downright mean to ask a 12 yo to contribute to summer camp but it is not sustainable for us annually. 

 

I guess I'm mean then, because when my kids wanted to go to an expensive sleep-away hockey camp several years ago (they were 11 and 10), they paid 2/3 of the cost with birthday, Christmas, allowance, and chore money.  :D

 

Generally people have jobs so they can pay for the things they want. For adults this is often housing, transportation, and food. For kids it depends a lot on what the parents says the money is for. With your dd, it's already established that her gig money is for music-related expenses. Camp is a music-related expense. If that's what your dd wants to spend the money on, then stick to your agreement. If she's changed her mind about spending the money on it, then she's changed her mind about going to camp.

 

We told our kids they could go to expensive sleep-away hockey camp only if/when they could earn a significant portion of the money. They saved their money, had a blast one year, and decided after that to spend their money on other things.

 

I don't feel guilty that we couldn't foot the bill for expensive hockey camp one (or multiple) years. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect a 12 year old to contribute to an expensive recreational camp.

[rocassie]

Going away to camp is an extra, fun, music related thing your DD wants to do, and it is something that as a family, you won't be able to afford all the time. It is a want not a need, and it's okay for a child to save up/earn the money for a want.  It gives them a sense of the monetary value of their hard work, and makes them think about whether that want is worth it.  This is an itty-bitty step on the way to a mature adulthood.  

[mommyoffive]

My six year old is saving money to attend a Suzuki Institute next year. He really wanted to go with his friends from his music school this year, but I don't have the money. I feel bad about it, but mostly because I can't make it happen this year. I don't think it's mean asking him to pay for it next year. If I didn't, he wouldn't be able to go. I think it's the same for your daughter. Letting her pay this year means that next year you have the money to let her go, even if she doesn't make as much money.

 

How cool of your son!

[mommyoffive]

How much are instruments? 

 

My kids only play piano and we have one that was passed on to us.

 

This is kind of freaking me out , on how much instruments cost.  I have no clue about this stuff.

[Grantmom]

When I was a teenager, I had a lot of opportunities to make money with music also.  I was hired to play for multiple things, and got paid really well for a teenager's job.  I could not have made that amount of money working at the grocery store.  I also was a lifeguard and got paid a higher than average wage, compared to other teen jobs of the day.  So I think it's great that she has this opportunity to learn about money and budgeting.  For some kids it will be easier for them to make a certain amount of money, and that's awesome.  But for others, they may not have the same circumstances, so I think it just really depends on the situation and what your family's budget and comfort level is.  My own kids don't have the opportunities I had to make money when I was their age, because they've/we've just chosen different paths, but that's okay too.  There will be a time for everything!

Edited June 28, 2016 by Grantmom