Disagreement with dh over makeup.

[Bluegoat]

When you're stressed out you say demeaning things to your kids and become over-controlling about totally unrelated stuff??? I don't believe that most parents do that or that it's a normal or healthy way to cope with stress.

 

Normal, acceptable, every parent does it:

"I'm really stressed out and you need to STOP BICKERING right now, or I'm gonna snap!!!" Or, more likely, "OMG stop bickering and go to your rooms NOW!!!!... 2 hours later... "I'm sorry I snapped at you, but I'm really stressed out right now and I don't have a lot of patience."

 

Not normal or acceptable:

Parent refuses to acknowledge actual source of stress and snaps at innocent teen: "That eyeliner makes you look trashy— take it off right now and if I catch you wearing it again, you'll be banned from wearing makeup for a week!"

 

It's totally normal for people under stress to react by taking it out on others in an inappropriate way.  Occassionaly, spectacularly.  Often, without totally realizing what is going on.

 

Part of growing up is seeing that others have these limitations, some more than others, and how to be firm, and also compassionate, and when to let things go and when not to.

[heartlikealion]

I would probably say, "it's eyeliner. It's not ____" (whatever. Body jewelry or something else that he would find more upsetting or difficult to remove)

 

I can see both sides to this. But I can see pushing the issue making her more likely to rebel in another way that is less appealing.

[Katy]

Overall, I think he really "heard" the words in my text. He expressed concern that he feels like he has to ask me for permission to have an opinion/ set rules. I said that wasn't the case at all. How about a conversation?

 

He did call dd in and admitted he didn't know about girl stuff, but that she could wear her eyeliner. He said he hopes the trend goes away soon. :lol:

 

This is awesome.   :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[bolt.]

I think permission is the wrong word to use here. It's a loaded term - it implies one spouse has authority over the other. I would use the word agreement instead. In 21 years of marriage, I don't believe my husband has asked my permission for anything, nor I for his. But we certainly have sought agreement on various issues. And without snark (which I read in the above quote but which I understand may not be intended as such).

Yeah, I wouldn't use "permission" if he didn't bring it up using that specific word -- but if he did, I'd definitely make my perspective clear: in a collaborative partnership, a need for consent-before-significant-action from the other party is definitely implied. If he thought it wasn't needed, what did he think the relationship was? Edited June 24, 2016 by bolt.

[Bluegoat]

I'm sorry, but his lack of logic in this statement is something that truly is laughable.

 

I think what he is probably getting at is that often, when something is much more important to one parent, it is most appropriate for the other parent to support it.

 

So, something like circumscising a baby.  One parent might have a strong view, the other think it is unimportant.  Or, allowing a teen to go overnight camping with a boyfriend/girlfriend.  One thinks it is fine, the other has real reservations.  In both cases, a lot of couples would tend to say - the person with the largest stake or who cares the most should tend to prevail.

 

So perhaps he feels that since he really cares about this, and thinks it's a significant parenting issue, his wife, who thinks it is unimportant, should tend to defer.

 

I think the problem with that here is threefold: the issue of eye make-up is just not that significant by any normal way of judging; he is missing that it is in itself important to respect the autonomy of a 16 yo as much as possible and something that is not intrinsically important will tend to fall under that; and he is just way out to lunch about make-up trends, and as someone who is fashion-insensitive he really ought to take advice from those not so afflicted.

[mamiof5]

Thank you.

 

He kept telling dd, "I just want to protect you."

You know? I get it. Sort of. I'm not a dad, and men and women are wired differently. The more I read updates I kind of see he probably had good intentions at heart, it was just the delivery that didn't go to well. Fathers have their own concerns, and in today's society some of them are very valid.

I am so glad you were able to have a conversation about this. I am also glad you are going to counseling. Something that has helped me with married life is to remind myself that I have my own quirks, my own mistakes...no one is perfect. I believe in a merciful God who will forgive my sins and oversee my imperfections, and if I hope He will forgive me the least I can do is forgive others. We all have our moments. I look at marriage life (and parenting too) as a roller coaster...lots of ups and lots of downs. Hold each other tight, and overall enjoy the ride! 😊

[Paige]

I think what he is probably getting at is that often, when something is much more important to one parent, it is most appropriate for the other parent to support it.

 

 

 

Right, but there are 2 sides. It is very important to this father that his DD does not wear winged eyeliner, but not important to the mother.

 

On the other hand, it is very important to the mother that DD learn she has control over her body, how to make good fashion choices (which requires experimentation and failure), and that she can trust her parents not to be petty. This is apparently not that important to the father. 

 

Which parent should be supported? The one making a knee jerk petty decision, or the one who is trying to do things to establish a solid relationship and sense of trust with her daughter?

 

FWIW, I would much prefer that my DDs experiment with makeup as a teen then have to experiment as a young adult because she never had a chance to learn. Everyone understands bad fashion or makeup in a kid but young women need to be able to look put together. 

[Bluegoat]

Right, but there are 2 sides. It is very important to this father that his DD does not wear winged eyeliner, but not important to the mother.

 

On the other hand, it is very important to the mother that DD learn she has control over her body, how to make good fashion choices (which requires experimentation and failure), and that she can trust her parents not to be petty. This is apparently not that important to the father. 

 

Which parent should be supported? The one making a knee jerk petty decision, or the one who is trying to do things to establish a solid relationship and sense of trust with her daughter?

 

FWIW, I would much prefer that my DDs experiment with makeup as a teen then have to experiment as a young adult because she never had a chance to learn. Everyone understands bad fashion or makeup in a kid but young women need to be able to look put together. 

 

Yup, which is pretty much as I said.  It sounds like he was somewhat misinterpreting the sense in which it was indifferent to his wife.

 

I wish from time to time I'd been more interested in hair and make up as a teen.  I was interested in fashion but abstractly, I never did much with hair or make-up.  I can do make-up, but I still find hair really hard, and it is a pain.  I'd like to be able to just do it up in a way that is practical or cute or whatever, and not have to fuss to get it right.

[Joanne]

That is an encouraging update, considering.

[KarenC]

If that's his biggest complaint with a 16yo, he should consider himself very lucky.

[ktgrok]

 

His whole demeanor and attitude was seeking to understand. I'm kinda wondering if he has a body double or something because I haven't seen him like that in a long time.

 

 

 

Sounds like by texting and giving him a chance to absorb it and calm down he was then able to be reasonable once you actually talked. I can understand that,a nd it may be good to continue to utilize that method of communication with him. It takes a lot of the emotion out, which is helpful for some people. 

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[goldberry]

He did call dd in and admitted he didn't know about girl stuff, but that she could wear her eyeliner. He said he hopes the trend goes away soon. :lol:

 

And that is an appropriate response!

[zarabellesmom]

Because it's ridiculous to tell teenage girls that their bodies are their own and no one else can tell them what to do with their bodies, and then try to control their bodies over something as trivial as eyeliner?

Wish I could like this more than once.

[kroe1]

Sorry, I did not read the other posts. I just took the OP as a vote of such.

 

My vote is to back up your DH whether you agree with this issue or not. The teen years are extremely important to have a United front. After all these years of parenting, do not blow it now. I assume you already know the benefits of parents who agree on discipline.

 

In addition, fathers are more likely to remember male teen thought patterns. If he says your DD looks trashy, then she probably does in his eyes. Why would you want your DH to think of his DD that way?

 

It is not always who is right or wrong that matters. It is who feels strongest about the issue. And his issue you have to live with the next thirty years. Her issues will move away.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Minniewannabe

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Sorry, I did not read the other posts. I just took the OP as a vote of such.

 

My vote is to back up your DH whether you agree with this issue or not. The teen years are extremely important to have a United front. After all these years of parenting, do not blow it now. I assume you already know the benefits of parents who agree on discipline.

 

In addition, fathers are more likely to remember male teen thought patterns. If he says your DD looks trashy, then she probably does in his eyes. Why would you want your DH to think of his DD that way?

 

It is not always who is right or wrong that. Matters. It is who feels strongest about the issue. And his issue you have to. Live with the next thirty years. Her issues will move away.

Again, there is never a reason to treat your child poorly just to make dad happy.

[Carrie12345]

 

In addition, fathers are more likely to remember male teen thought patterns. If he says your DD looks trashy, then she probably does in his eyes. Why would you want your DH to think of his DD that way?

 

 

 

I hope above all hopes that that is NOT the way a father looks at his daughter!

 

Silly, fine.  Using the word trashy without it's true meaning, forgivable after reflection and apology.  Actually feeling that way? Disgusting.

[PeacefulChaos]

If it washes off, grows out, or grows back - we don't care about it, and encourage experimentation.

 

This isn't a battle I'd pick either.

 

This ^^^^  is exactly us.

 

 

And I like eyeliner.  A fair bit of it.  :D :lol: :lol:

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

This ^^^^  is exactly us.

 

 

And I like eyeliner.  A fair bit of it.   :D :lol: :lol:

 

I wear winged liquid black eyeliner and sparkly eye shadow pretty regularly.  I'm well over 40.  Some of us just never get over it, LOL.  I still manage to travel very well in professional and middle/upper-middle class circles.

[ErinE]

In addition, fathers are more likely to remember male teen thought patterns. If he says your DD looks trashy, then she probably does in his eyes. Why would you want your DH to think of his DD that way?

 

It is not always who is right or wrong that matters. It is who feels strongest about the issue. And his issue you have to live with the next thirty years. Her issues will move away.

So the problem is the daughter not obeying her father when he thinks her look is trash? The father isn't the problem for thinking a tame look is trash?

 

I've seen this play out, in my family and others. It doesn't end well for the one with "strongest" feelings. The relationship is damaged, and when something important comes up, like a significant other guilty of serious felonies, the child won't listen. Why? Because you've shown your judgement is flawed and you've destroyed your relationship over stupid things that don't matter in the long run.

 

You know how some people have random sayings hanging on the wall? Bless this home, don't mind the mess, etc. As your child approaches adulthood, there should be a huge sign, in bright neon flashing lights - Don't ruin your relationship with your child over petty stuff.

Edited June 25, 2016 by ErinE

[foxbridgeacademy]

Sorry, I did not read the other posts. I just took the OP as a vote of such.

 

My vote is to back up your DH whether you agree with this issue or not. The teen years are extremely important to have a United front. After all these years of parenting, do not blow it now. I assume you already know the benefits of parents who agree on discipline.

 

In addition, fathers are more likely to remember male teen thought patterns. If he says your DD looks trashy, then she probably does in his eyes. Why would you want your DH to think of his DD that way?

 

It is not always who is right or wrong that matters. It is who feels strongest about the issue. And his issue you have to live with the next thirty years. Her issues will move away.

Why? Why should she back him up? Why shouldn't he back her up?  She feels just as strongly, she's just less pushy and vocal about it. And why should it be up to him at all?  The "child" is 16, old enough to make her own decisions.  

 

If she had backed him up then the daughter would have felt bullied, mistreated and miserable.  It would have damaged the relationship with dad AND mom.  Mom might have blamed dad for the damaged relationship with the daughter.  Live with that kind of resentment for 30 years. (My parents, but they only made it 20) 

 

 Instead mom stood her ground (you would know this if you had read the other posts by OP).  Dad rethought his position, explained why he felt the way he did, probably felt a little silly for making such a huge deal out of a non-issue and he backed down, and I think even apologized to DD. 

 

 

*My experience is a damaged relationship with mom who didn't protect me from an overbearing and physically abusive father even though she knew the "punishments" and rules were wrong.  I've forgiven my dad, he didn't know, it was how he was raised (plus the whole fundamentalist religion thing had him seriously brainwashed) and he's apologized.  My mom knew he was being abusive and she did nothing.... I still blame her a little bit.

Edited June 25, 2016 by foxbridgeacademy

[heartlikealion]

Thought of this thread tonight while watching Anastasia. The Disney film. Main character has eyeliner that sticks out.

 

I actually think you can make a personal opinion about makeup looking classy or trashy, but I'm not saying you should air those thoughts or that they would be fair and right. It's just an opinion even if not everyone can fathom the word being associated with makeup.

[fairfarmhand]

I was driving yesterday and I remembered this song from way back when.

 

 

 

And, according to the criteria set forth, it's rouge and lipstick and tight clothes that makes a trashy woman; no eyeliner is mentioned.

 

:)

[Guest]

If that's his biggest complaint with a 16yo, he should consider himself very lucky.

That's what I was thinking too! But then, I've had my share of serious issues this year with my own 16yo...

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I was driving yesterday and I remembered this song from way back when.

 

 

 

 

And, according to the criteria set forth, it's rouge and lipstick and tight clothes that makes a trashy woman; no eyeliner is mentioned.

 

:)

 

 

Totally unrelated to the OP:

I've always loved good country music from about 20-30 years ago... always sang along to this song on the radio.  

 

But that music video?  I think it killed the song for me!  It was So. Bad.   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[foxbridgeacademy]

nm. 

 

Edited June 27, 2016 by foxbridgeacademy

[Guest]

I was driving yesterday and I remembered this song from way back when.

 

 

 

And, according to the criteria set forth, it's rouge and lipstick and tight clothes that makes a trashy woman; no eyeliner is mentioned.

 

:)

Add me to the group who always liked that song but MAN that video needs to die and never come back. Wow bad! :rofl:

[Reefgazer]

My DD loves winged eyeliner.  I think it looks cheap too, but it's not a hill I'm going to die on, so DD wears it.  I do make her wipe it off if it gets so dark that it looks more ridiculous than usual.  What about a compromise where she only wears it when she goes out for semi-special occasions and not wear it everyday?

Edited June 27, 2016 by reefgazer

[speedmom4]

Sounds like your dh is coming around.

 

Eyeliner isn't something to damage a teen daughter and father relationship over. She needs to feel like her dad has her back and that he's there for her when she needs him. If he's losing it over EYELINER   :confused1:  :confused1:  :confused1: then she will believe she can't trust him with the big stuff.

 

I'm honestly shocked with the women that said you should have backed your husband's ridiculous demands. If a man can't handle being wrong when he is then he has issues that need to be dealt with. IMHO, if anyone is so emotionally fragile they can't deal with being wrong occasionally then there are big problems that have nothing to do with eyeliner.