s/o Why do restaurants allow all parties to order alcohol?

[Excelsior! Academy]

The drinking and driving thread made me curious.  Dh and I order water and occasionally tea when out, so it really is just curiosity.  I live in an area with virtually no public transportation and few taxis.  Forget walking to most restaurants.  It is assumed most, if not all, drive themselves to the restaurant, yet almost all restaurants have drinks and certainly try to upsell them when you first order.  

 

Question in the title.  Discuss.  :) 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I guess it would be difficult to micromanage to that extent. 

 

 

 

 

[Farrar]

They make a lot of money on drinks. I live walking distance from a lot of restaurants. I can take public transit to even more. And there's always cabs and ubers and lyfts. It makes total sense here that they try to sell you on alcohol.

[kitten18]

My town used to not have very many taxis, now there is a ton of Uber drivers.

[hjffkj]

It isn't the restaurant's responsibility to nanny people.

[Ali in OR]

I don't drink if I'm going to be driving home because it only takes 1 drink for me to feel loopy and I don't know if I'll be at the restaurant long enough for it to wear off. But dh outweighs me by 60-70 lbs and 1 drink does not make him feel loopy at all and he will be completely fine after the meal.

 

[Arcadia]

The markup on drinks is high. Besides people BYOB and pay corkage fees.

[fraidycat]

It isn't the restaurant's responsibility to nanny people.

I was about to type almost the exact same thing.

 

The restaurant's job is to serve untainted food, provide customer service, and make a profit so they can pay their staff.

Edited June 22, 2016 by fraidycat

[SKL]

Well, where I live, technically you are not allowed to serve alcohol to someone who is falling down drunk.  However, in practice, it is very hard to follow that.  How drunk is too drunk?  And what is going to happen to me if I say "no more for you" and bruise a big drunk guy's ego in front of his friends?  If there's a cop around, I can have the guy escorted out, but then what do you think he's going to do - sleep in the bushes until he gets sober?  I'm not even sure that's legal.

[nd293]

Here at least it is perfectly legal to have a drink and drive if you're within the legal limit. It would be pretty hard for a restaurant to police how many drinks each customer is consuming and how fast to figure out blood alcohol levels.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I do side work catering large events. The drinks portion of the evening allows for the staff to do a transition and shift everything in set up/take down teams. People are much more easy going if they feel social rather than like they are waiting around. Drinks also often encourage people to be social and loosen up. As much as I extremely dislike this aspect of our society, many people are unwilling to really have fun until they have a few drinks.

[athomeontheprairie]

It isn't the restaurant's responsibility to nanny people.

This.

[hornblower]

It isn't the restaurant's responsibility to nanny people.

 

In Canada it is. 

 

Numerous cases have ruled it. 

Just a sample:  (tons more at this link http://www.servingitright.com/alcohol_and_law_appendix_2.html ) 

 

":If a person becomes intoxicated at your establishment, or an intoxicated person enters your establishment and you continue to serve that person alcohol, you are exposed to liability if that person causes harm to him or herself or to members of the public. That exposure may not end until that person gets home or to some safe place where they can sober up."

[TechWife]

They aren't supposed to serve to people who appear to be drunk or those who are under the legal drinking age. Penalties are the responsibility of thr bar, restraint or the owner of a private home.

 

Thirty states have dram shop laws that hold places like restaurants, bars, and liquor stores responsible for selling or serving alcohol to those who cause injury or death due to their intoxication. In North Carolina under N.C.G.S. § 18B-305(a), it is unlawful “for a permittee or his employee or for an ABC store employee to knowingly sell or give alcoholic beverages to any person who is intoxicated.†Even though the language requires a “knowing†mental state, meaning the sale needs to be intentional, North Carolina Appellate Courts hold employers and businesses liable if the sale was negligent.

 

Additionally, under N.C.G.S. § 18B-121, vendors are liable for drunk driving injuries and fatalities if the vendor negligently sold alcohol to a minor; the minor caused a car accident while under the influence of the alcohol served or sold; and the accident and resulting injuries were proximately caused by the underage driver’s negligent driving while impaired. Therefore, if the vendor, at the time of the sale, knew or “in the exercise of reasonable care†should have known, the customer was intoxicated, the vendor will be held liable for damages caused by the drunk driver to the third party. This is not a strict liability crime. Instead, the plaintiff must prove that the sale was negligent.

 

Dram shop laws apply to social hosts as well. Under Hart v. Ivey, the North Carolina Supreme Court held that hosts of a party could be held liable for serving alcohol to minors who later cause an accident from being intoxicated. Even though Hart dealt with minors, the language in the case indicates that hosts can be liable for intoxicated adult guests as well.

 

Overall, North Carolina statutes provide limited liability for vendors who sell alcohol to intoxicated results and full liability for selling alcohol to intoxicated minors. As for social hosts, there is limited liability for the hosts when they serve alcohol to both minors and adults

 

http://campbelllawobserver.com/think-before-you-serve-a-drink-dram-shop-laws-in-north-carolina/

[purplejackmama]

Because they enhance the dining experience?

[KungFuPanda]

Because prohibition ended a long time ago?

[mamiof5]

I don't think it's the restaurant's job to make that call. I won't blame my local grocery store if I get sick from eating a gallon of ice cream...I should know better. Same with drinking.

[LuvToRead]

I don't think it's the restaurant's job to make that call. I won't blame my local grocery store if I get sick from eating a gallon of ice cream...I should know better. Same with drinking.

 

Isn't it more about killing someone on your way home rather than just being hung over?  It's really a tough one.  If I were a waitress, I would not like to be the one to decide how much is too much.  However, I also wouldn't want to be the waitress that served someone that killed someone on their way home.  

[Laura Corin]

Isn't it more about killing someone on your way home rather than just being hung over?  It's really a tough one.  If I were a waitress, I would not like to be the one to decide how much is too much.  However, I also wouldn't want to be the waitress that served someone that killed someone on their way home.  

 

But you just don't know how they are getting home.  I went out for a merry work do at Christmas, but my sober husband picked up me and one of my colleagues afterwards.  One night Husband and I went out to dinner with two friends and all drank - we left our car at the restaurant and took a taxi home.

 

[bettyandbob]

How would the restaurant monitor this. Are they going to have paid staff watch who parks and put stickers on those people? What about people who walk from public parking so restaurant staff can't witness they drive? Is each guest required to sign something identifying themselves as a dd or not and then all dds are tagged for wait staff to see.

 

Many places the establishment has a duty not serve if a patron appears intoxicated. However, there many people can drink to a point under the legal limit and not appear intoxicated.

 

Until the legal limit is set at 0.00, people over the age of 21 in the US are permitted to drink something and drive. Restaurants should not be required to determine who is driving and have evaluate those persons to determine if they are over legal limits.

[mamiof5]

Isn't it more about killing someone on your way home rather than just being hung over? It's really a tough one. If I were a waitress, I would not like to be the one to decide how much is too much. However, I also wouldn't want to be the waitress that served someone that killed someone on their way home.

I think it's not the waitress's job to decide how much is too much. Or to worry about driving situation etc. That's just not her job or responsibility. Yes, it'd stink to be the one who was waitressing someone who killed himself or someone else in the process, it would be sad and heart breaking...but still, not the waitress's fault, nor her responsibility to decide how much someone can drink or not. At some point we have to be responsible for our actions, it's not the restaurant's job to nanny us.

[QueenCat]

Why shouldn't they? Most people can drive after having a drink, dinner and chatting. I would be well under the legal limit with one drink and driving home right after. The norm is closer to an hour after I've finished the drink, though.....

[Mom-ninja.]

The drinking and driving thread made me curious.  Dh and I order water and occasionally tea when out, so it really is just curiosity.  I live in an area with virtually no public transportation and few taxis.  Forget walking to most restaurants.  It is assumed most, if not all, drive themselves to the restaurant, yet almost all restaurants have drinks and certainly try to upsell them when you first order.  

 

Question in the title.  Discuss.   :)

 

Do you really want to live in a place that forbids you choices? It may seem like a good idea on the surface but really think about it. My dh is currently working in a country where it is against the law to purchase food or any type of drink (including water) at a restaurant or cafe during Ramadan. Due to the law these places are closed. Think about that. There are people who are not fasting for various reasons. They do not have the freedom of choice to eat or drink during the day in an establishment or pick up a ready made meal. 

 

Do you want other people making your choices for you or denying you the ability to choose? 

[MrsBasil]

I think in many places around the country(US) a person could order a drink or two during a meal and still be under the legal alcohol limits.  I also don't know how they would enforce that since the restaurant would have no way of knowing who was driving, if people were walking, if they were getting in a car right after dinner. etc.  It seems like that would be a bigger headache for the restaurant than they would want.

[Carrie12345]

A lot depends on location.

 

My sisters were required to be trained and licensed in order to wait tables in establishments that serve alcohol.  They WERE very much responsible for who drank how much.

[Guest]

Because most restaurant food is mediocre at best and needs a consciousness-altering buffer?

 

But seriously, why WOULDN'T they?

 

If you go down that terrible, dystopian road we can have waiters doling out your salt. Refusing you extra cheese. For your own good dontchaknow.

 

I mean if the concern is harm done from drinking and driving, specifically, AND one is comfortable with more government oversight in that area, the thing to do would be to intercept folks at the scene of the crime, so to speak, and install breathalyzers in all cars.

Edited June 22, 2016 by OKBud

[mamiof5]

A lot depends on location.

 

My sisters were required to be trained and licensed in order to wait tables in establishments that serve alcohol. They WERE very much responsible for who drank how much.

So...how did this work out? If I ordered a Margarita, or a glass of wine...they just wouldn't sell me a second one? I just can't picture how a waitress would be responsible for others' actions. What happens if a guy orders 3 beers? They waitress can just say no?

[Guest]

A lot depends on location.

 

My sisters were required to be trained and licensed in order to wait tables in establishments that serve alcohol.  They WERE very much responsible for who drank how much.

 

Who required this?

[skimomma]

So...how did this work out? If I ordered a Margarita, or a glass of wine...they just wouldn't sell me a second one? I just can't picture how a waitress would be responsible for others' actions. What happens if a guy orders 3 beers? They waitress can just say no?

 

I have done a great deal of waitressing and bartending over my lifetime and still bartend whenever we need extra cash.  I have taken all of the training multiple times.  The only way I can get in legal trouble is if I serve someone who is obviously very intoxicated (or underage) and it can be proven.  This does happen and I have co-workers and employers who have been fined and/or sued from this situation.  I do not need to know who is driving.  If someone has one too many, has an accident, and blows over, I am unlikely to even be a factor.  But if there is someone who is pulled over who is so far beyond drunk that should not have been served, I (and my employer) would be held partially responsible and can be fined/charged.  

 

Since I cannot know who is the driver of any party there is not a whole lot I can do except cut a person off.  In a busy bar scene, usually the cut-off person will either cause such a scene that I have to call the cops or will try to convince someone else to order more for them.  I obviously watch for this carefully.  I have chased down more than my share of cut-off people bumming drinks and it is never pretty.  I also watch if I suspect someone is going to drive who shouldn't.  I will either watch myself or send someone else to do so and call the cops immediately with plate numbers.  That is where my responsibility as a server ends.  This is pretty rare.  Most people who will indeed blow over show no obvious signs.  Then it is out of my hands and legally the server is not legally responsible.

 

Not saying any of this is right or ideal, but it is what it is.....in my state anyway.  

[skimomma]

Who required this?

 

 

State law.  Everywhere I have bartended requires all servers to go through periodic training.  This is not required for wait-persons in my state but the bartender (and therefore employer) is ultimately the end of the line here so even if a server serves someone WAY too much, they will go after the bartender.  I have seen it happen many times.  It almost never goes anywhere since the disconnect from customer to bartender (via server) is too weak to hold the bartender accountable, but the process is harrowing enough that most bartenders are wary.  I actually will not bartend for restaurants in which I am not directly serving customers because of this.  I stick to bartending at straight-up bars....which is its own brand of crazy.

[MotherGoose]

So...how did this work out? If I ordered a Margarita, or a glass of wine...they just wouldn't sell me a second one? I just can't picture how a waitress would be responsible for others' actions. What happens if a guy orders 3 beers? They waitress can just say no?

I waited tables for a while in college. I was told not to serve to someone who was grossly intoxicated. There have been lawsuits about such things in my state, but I don't think they have gone far unless it could be proven that the drinker was just falling down drunk and the restaurant continued to serve. There has to be a measure of responsibility placed on the drinker.

[Carrie12345]

So...how did this work out? If I ordered a Margarita, or a glass of wine...they just wouldn't sell me a second one? I just can't picture how a waitress would be responsible for others' actions. What happens if a guy orders 3 beers? They waitress can just say no?

 

 

Who required this?

 

I couldn't give you specifics.  I didn't have to take any training or obtain any sort of permit in a whole other state 20 years ago.  My sisters did in Georgia, but it's probably been near a decade since we talked about it.

 

I recognize that there are huge gray areas and a million different scenarios, but I do believe everyone involved has a moral obligation to do what is within their power to keep harm from coming to other people.  We know to report suspected terrorism, child abuse, suicide risk, illegal dumping... why not try to prevent the risk of death by drunk driver?

[Laurie4b]

Here at least it is perfectly legal to have a drink and drive if you're within the legal limit. It would be pretty hard for a restaurant to police how many drinks each customer is consuming and how fast to figure out blood alcohol levels.

 

 

Yes and no. Restaurants and their employees are supposed to know how many drinks they have served a customer and can be held liable if they serve someone who is drunk and the person has an accident. It would be harder for someone to keep track in a large bar where patrons aren't seated.  It's fair if they've been the ones serving and know how much alcohol an individual has had, but it's not fair if someone "holds his liquor well" and they serve a couple and he gets into an accident. They are absolutely not supposed to serve someone who is obviously drunk, not just a little tipsy. They may ask if there is a designated driver. 

[Bluegoat]

Because it makes a lot more sense for people to be responsible for themselves for the most part.

 

I'm an adult - why I'm allowed to be drinks at all - I know how much I can drink and still drive legally, and how much I can drink and still drive realistically, if that is less.  I know how I am getting home. I know what I had to drink before I got there. I am likely to be better at keeping track of what I drink at the restaurant than a busy waitress. I am the one who will ultimately be held responsible if I make a bad choice or misjudge and it has consequences, serious ones like causing an accident, or annoying ones like having to call home to be picked up.