What about essentially skipping high school and going straight to CommunityCollege?

[...................]

I think, after only one day of reading these threads...that it would short change my son to go before 9th.  He will finish more math at home, and maybe Biology or Chemistry at home and have more time to mature.

 

Other than that I see no real negatives especially since now we know he can still apply as a freshman if he wants, and attend the university of his choice as a freshman, if that's what he desires.  Or he can decide to go as a transfer student, and that would start to become clear to him somewhere in the process.

 

 

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

If your son graduates from high school and then attends, he is a transfer student. No freshmen status. If he remains in high school, he is not transfer student regarless of credit hours (at most colleges and universities we have looked at). He would enter as a freshmen with advanced status.

 

This is the major decision: to graduate or not. That is the decision which has the long term consequences.

 

My son wants very selective schools. Every single one has told us to not graduate him early. The reason is simply that it greatly reduces his pre-college resume and turns him into a transfer student. He will begin CC at 14, easily have his AA before the end of high school, but not graduate until 17. As the colleges have stated, it level the playing field. He is then compared to kids his age. If he graduates early and is a transfer student, he is being compared to a completely different stack of applicants.

Edited June 22, 2016 by EndOfOrdinary

[quark]

.
 

Edited June 22, 2016 by quark

[EndOfOrdinary]

Typo? :001_smile:

 

Thank you. Fixing :)

[quark]

I agree about wanting to explore new worlds. I haven't heard of any state uni requiring 12 classes to be tested (AP/ SAT subject) though. :huh:

Quoting myself here but after asking locally it does seem that the route for homeschoolers who don't take the admission by exam route with 2 SAT subject tests but validate a- g is pretty arduous. I have heard of UCs not requiring so many tests from everyone admitted though. They seem to make exceptions but it is hard to know where/how or to be sure something will be exempted. The CC route really makes it easier.

[Haiku]

May I ask a question? I am puzzled by the statement above, because I do not understand how the college level math and foreign language classes would not be more advanced than the high school classes. I would expect a student who has taken, say, precalculus in high school to place into calculus 1 at college, and a student who has taken French 1 and 2 in high school to place into upper level French courses at college.

I did not take calculus in college. It was not required for my major. I took two statistics classes, instead. I started my university German classes in German III (I had taken two years of German in high school) after not taking German at all while at the CC. I found German III (Prose Reading) easier than high school German II. German IV (Poetry) was harder. My university history class was more interesting but not more demanding than my high school history class. My university English class, Comp II, was, frankly, a joke. (Every student was required to take a Comp course. I tested out of Comp I. Comp II was the highest Comp class they offered for non-English majors.) My 10th and 11th grade English teachers were far, far better and standards were higher. Of course, it was the difference between a class with 20 students in it and a lecture with 80, but I am confident I learned exactly nothing about composition in Comp II that I didn't already know. Biology was not any harder than high school biology, although it did focus on a different area.

 

I distinctly remember my teachers in high school telling us that college would be so much harder and being confused when it wasn't.

 

unfortunately that is the sad state of affairs in the public school world - many students in non-honors math classes do NOT achieve the mastery that they should for the topic and it snowballs through the years.

I took the hardest course of college-prep classes my high school offered. I did not have to take any introductory classes in college or university for classes that I had taken in high school, so your statement does not apply to me.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Haiku

[SparklyUnicorn]

If your son graduates from high school and then attends, he is a transfer student. No freshmen status. If he remains in high school, he is not transfer student regarless of credit hours (at most colleges and universities we have looked at). He would enter as a freshmen with advanced status.

 

This is the major decision: to graduate or not. That is the decision which has the long term consequences.

 

My son wants very selective schools. Every single one has told us to not graduate him early. The reason is simply that it greatly reduces his pre-college resume and turns him into a transfer student. He will begin CC at 14, easily have his AA before the end of high school, but not graduate until 17. As the colleges have stated, it level the playing field. He is then compared to kids his age. If he graduates early and is a transfer student, he is being compared to a completely different stack of applicants.

 

I'm sure this depends on goals, but in the not so long run after that, what will it matter?  KWIM?  Is a potential employer really going to care about these details?  In certain fields, maybe?!  But in many, not at all.

[Matryoshka]

I am not "skipping high school." But, I am only doing 9th grade full time. By 10th, he will be taking 25% through community college, junior years, 50% or more, depending on how sophomore year goes, and by senior year, completely at community college. At least that is the plan. I do not intend to do courses at home that he will do off at community college.

 

We're doing something similar for youngest.  She ditched ps high school after the first semester of freshman year, so this spring semester she took 2 CC classes (but got credit for 3 - long story), she's taking one this summer and then will take 3 in the fall, and depending on how that goes wants to take 4/semester after that so she can be done in just two more years.  As I said, we'll see how it goes - I'd prefer a more gradual pace myself, but this is her plan.  It's all DE, though.  For now she's also still taking math online, though, so it's not 100% DE, just mostly.

 

My older DD, who did just two years of DE and some AP classes is entering at a local uni as a 'real' college student this fall.  They have some policy that if you come in with enough credits (30-ish to 53), you're automatically considered a sophomore, (over 53 you're a junior - she has 51!) but they're still having her live in freshman housing and everything - she doesn't get any aid, so that isn't affected.  I think it might be freshman with sophomore standing?? Not sure if it even really matters; she can still stay all four years no matter what they call her now... She can take a lighter course load, or add another major/minor, or spend a whole year abroad.  She did get to waive the otherwise mandatory 'freshman seminar' because of this, though...

Edited June 22, 2016 by Matryoshka

[Matryoshka]

When I think of my just-turned 15 year old ds in a CC class with 19 year olds, I know he would shut down socially. He is very reserved in the tiny co-op classes he takes. How do your kids do socially at CC?

 

My younger dd started just after she turned 15.  There are a lot of DE kids there, so it's not unheard of - her best friend (same age) was in her Zoology class.    But there are also older kids and even adults in the classes - it's a real mix.  She hasn't had any problems with that.  I think it really helps that unlike high school, you're just there for the class.  You don't have to 'socialize' with anyone you don't want to, and don't have to stay there outside of class unless you want to.

 

I looked at our CC's policy online regarding high school kids taking classes, and they limit them to 11th graders. Is this really not the case in most places?

 

 

Here it was they could start at 14/freshman, but my friend just told me her 13yo is starting this fall, so I think it may have changed.  I know this varies widely in other places.

 

Another recent change is that they no longer let DE kids take remedial/high-school level classes at the CC.  Has to be 101 level or above.  If you're not ready for Precalculus or College Writing, you have to take those elsewhere.  Most electives that don't have a pre-req are still okay, though.

[madteaparty]

I can't answer the larger question but just wanted to say--DS is going to a brick and mortar high school. We could move to any school district in the NY/NJ area and there are some very good ones, if rankings and tests scores is what we go by. For whatever reason that I cannot articulate I've decided DE is preferable to AP so we are most likely moving to a "decent enough" school district but with a very strong, formal DE program at several universities. There are enough classes he can take to fill 4 years of high school ;)

Edited June 22, 2016 by madteaparty

[regentrude]

When I think of my just-turned 15 year old ds in a CC class with 19 year olds, I know he would shut down socially. He is very reserved in the tiny co-op classes he takes. How do your kids do socially at CC?

 

My DD took her first class at the university at age 13. By age 15, she was working as a tutor in the university's tutoring center for engineering physics; she loved the interaction, was a popular tutor, did very well with the students, and they never guessed her age. Age did not come up unless somebody asked her what her major was and she had to fess up; she had some funny situations with students asking her out and then backing off immediately when they found out her age.

She formed great long lasting friendships with girls who were college seniors when she was 15/16 and was involved in a campus organization.

She could always relate much better to people older than her and never fit in with same age peers; this was exactly the social environment she needed - she would have been miserable in a regular high school.

Edited June 22, 2016 by regentrude

[FriedClams]

I think you've gotten lots of great input and ideas, but I'd encourage you to just really look at your student. You know your kid. You know their strengths and weaknesses. Have a plan b in case they get there and hate it, but otherwise, trust your mom gut.

[Crimson Wife]

My oldest just took the CHSPE and assuming she passes, will most likely begin DE at our local CC this fall.

 

She has been rebelling against the very "cookie cutter" nature of the college prep high school curriculum here in CA. Enrolling in college will allow her a lot more academic freedom because she can choose the classes she wants within fairly general parameters. I know that by this point she has a well-rounded base of knowledge (thank you WTM, Core Knowledge, etc.!) that's actually better than what I got from my high school. I really sympathize with her wanting that academic freedom and if she'd rather take specific courses that interest her rather than a broad survey course (e.g. linguistics rather than AP English Language), that's fine with me.

 

I do not plan on graduating her until she's 17 at this point to keep open her options for post-CC. She is a strong test-taker so National Merit is a real possibility. So much so that one of the factors I'm considering for which grad school to attend is the NMF cutoff in that state (which varies a LOT).

[wapiti]

I'm sure this depends on goals, but in the not so long run after that, what will it matter?  KWIM?  Is a potential employer really going to care about these details?  In certain fields, maybe?!  But in many, not at all.

 

FWIW, I think EOO is just saying that freshman vs transfer status matters (tremendously) for admission to selective schools, which is a goal for her ds.

Edited June 22, 2016 by wapiti

[...................]

My oldest just took the CHSPE and assuming she passes, will most likely begin DE at our local CC this fall.

 

She has been rebelling against the very "cookie cutter" nature of the college prep high school curriculum here in CA. Enrolling in college will allow her a lot more academic freedom because she can choose the classes she wants within fairly general parameters. I know that by this point she has a well-rounded base of knowledge (thank you WTM, Core Knowledge, etc.!) that's actually better than what I got from my high school. I really sympathize with her wanting that academic freedom and if she'd rather take specific courses that interest her rather than a broad survey course (e.g. linguistics rather than AP English Language), that's fine with me.

 

I do not plan on graduating her until she's 17 at this point to keep open her options for post-CC. She is a strong test-taker so National Merit is a real possibility. So much so that one of the factors I'm considering for which grad school to attend is the NMF cutoff in that state (which varies a LOT).

Exactly.  Here, doing the A-G route is exactly one way, one path, no variations, and a lot of stress ...it's no longer real learning, just grinding through a series of tests and wring your hands while waiting for scores.  That is never what I have done with my kids.  Why start now?  

 

I mean, going too early is pointless because they'll end up taking remedial courses alongside who knows who.  My son only needs 9th grade to get to at least that basic point and we will take it from there.  And yes, like you, I will not graduate my son.  We will keep him with our umbrella school for four more years.

[SparklyUnicorn]

FWIW, I think EOO is just saying that freshman vs transfer status matters (tremendously) for admission to selective schools, which is a goal for her ds.

 

Ah ok.  I missed that detail.

 

[regentrude]

 My son only needs 9th grade to get to at least that basic point and we will take it from there.  And yes, like you, I will not graduate my son.  We will keep him with our umbrella school for four more years.

 

So you are basically doing what many homeschoolers are doing: having the student take (some or many) college classes while still in high school. There are no negatives to that if the student is capable of the work and doing well (because college grades are permanent). It just is not what the thread title suggested.

Edited June 22, 2016 by regentrude

[Chrysalis Academy]

FWIW, CW, it sounds like you've reached the same conclusion we have. Although it looks like at this point we may not use the CC in 9th grade, because we're liking our at-home plans.  I had assumed we would, but I think at this point we won't before 10th grade.  Always open to change as needed.

 

I think, after only one day of reading these threads...that it would short change my son to go before 9th.  He will finish more math at home, and maybe Biology or Chemistry at home and have more time to mature.

 

Other than that I see no real negatives especially since now we know he can still apply as a freshman if he wants, and attend the university of his choice as a freshman, if that's what he desires.  Or he can decide to go as a transfer student, and that would start to become clear to him somewhere in the process.

 

 

Exactly.  Here, doing the A-G route is exactly one way, one path, no variations, and a lot of stress ...it's no longer real learning, just grinding through a series of tests and wring your hands while waiting for scores.  That is never what I have done with my kids.  Why start now?  

 

I mean, going too early is pointless because they'll end up taking remedial courses alongside who knows who.  My son only needs 9th grade to get to at least that basic point and we will take it from there.  And yes, like you, I will not graduate my son.  We will keep him with our umbrella school for four more years.

 

[...................]

So you are basically doing what many homeschoolers are doing: having the student take (some or many) college classes while still in high school. There are no negatives to that if the student is capable of the work and doing well (because college grades are permanent). It just is not what the thread title suggested.

Sigh...if you'll notice, I was convinced through the course of this thread NOT to do what the title suggested, which was to completely skip even 9th grade at home, do no online or at home classes and go straight to CC.

 

Now, after all the points have been brought up (including yours), it seems best to do at least one year at home and reassess.  Also, due to this thread, I realize now that he can apply as a freshman with many credits, (depending on the university, I will check into it to be sure), whereas before I did not realize that at all.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Calming Tea

[MerryAtHope]

 

I am just wondering about the academics...it looks to me like the first two years in college, you repeat the stuff you learned in high school at greater depth, for the most part.  Especially in Science.  For example you take Biology in hs, then in college...you take CHemistry in high school then in college....

 

I'm sure this is something that will vary depending on the college. I will say that it wasn't true for me (going from a highly ranked high school in my state to a state university), and it hasn't been true for my son (going from home schooling high school to our local CC for financial reasons--there are always hits and misses, but I've been impressed by many of his CC classes and instructors). I think there should definitely be more depth in a college class that has the same title or subject matter (such as biology or chemistry). We certainly repeat classes/topics in homeshool for the sake of deeper understanding or to hit topics not covered the first time (think WTM history cycle for example)--ideally this is how it works from high school to college as well. I think you need to know more about the local academics as part of your consideration. 

[cjzimmer1]

We wanted to this with our oldest and then discovered that our CC only allows people 16 or older to take classes during the 8:00-3:00 time period.  So essentially anyone who "should" be in high school is banned from the CC.  They could take classes after hours but the only classes they offer after traditional school hours is adult remedial classes, art classes, cooking etc.  Nothing that would be useful to an academically advanced student.  It's one of the stupidest policies I've every heard of but they won't make exceptions even for homeschoolers.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Just to be clear, we are not talking about Dual Credit, (for me the OP) because our CC's are so impacted kids almost never get their Dual Enrollment courses.  THey wait and wait and wait and almost never get them.  We are talking about taking the state exam and paying for the CC classes, wherein the college sees the student as a regular CC student but the student is really high school age, or even considering themselves a high schooler.

 

Are you in CA and talking about the CA specific test of high school proficiency?  You may get more accurate answers from CA families.  When we lived in San Diego, I found that there were different policies for high school students even within different community college systems in the same county.

 

What you will get from 4 year colleges when the student is ready to move on may also vary.  What a UC or CSU school does may be very different from what a private or out of state school does.

[...................]

Yes, we are also looking very specifically into individual CC's , individual state universities, individual out of state universities and one of the forum members here is from my state and we are having private conversations that are super helpful.

 

I wanted to hear both aspects of it...both from a general/psychological/social/academic standpoint, as well as our individual state....

 

Thank you for the reminder, because more and more I am advised to look very specifically at the universities my son is interested in.  One of them is out of state (Texas A&M) and would completely erase 90% of the problems we would have completing high school at home, plus they offer 100% peanut free dorm cafeterias.  :o)  But the others are more complicated.

[chiguirre]

Yes, we are also looking very specifically into individual CC's , individual state universities, individual out of state universities and one of the forum members here is from my state and we are having private conversations that are super helpful.

 

I wanted to hear both aspects of it...both from a general/psychological/social/academic standpoint, as well as our individual state....

 

Thank you for the reminder, because more and more I am advised to look very specifically at the universities my son is interested in.  One of them is out of state (Texas A&M) and would completely erase 90% of the problems we would have completing high school at home, plus they offer 100% peanut free dorm cafeterias.   :o)  But the others are more complicated.

 

If you do want TAMU, check out their core curriculum carefully. It's very common for hs students in TX to dual enroll to fulfill some of those requirements in advance. You can also CLEP or use AP and some SAT II tests to fulfill those requirements.

[Susie in CA]

Well, darn. Somehow I just lost my post. I am replying to the topic of content quality at the CC vs. high school.

 

I used to think that high school courses in our area are at least as good as the CC courses. However, now that my boys have attended a high school I have found that this is not so. Our homeschool high school courses are at least as or even better in quality than the CC (in the areas I am confident to cover at home). I assumed that our courses at home were comparable to the courses at the high schools. I have come to find that this is not the case. We have covered far more material (in far more detail) than the high schools accomplish in our courses at home. 

 

When I compare the courses at the high school my kids attended this last year I would say that the CC courses are definitively a big step up. When I compare them to our at-home courses this is not the case. I am not comparing an Algebra course to a Calculus course; but Algebra to Algebra; or History to History. 

 

Imho, public high school spends a lot of time on the following things:

 

paper work

making sure all the kids are at the same level before moving on

daily assignments (many of which completely useless)

assemblies

etc.

 

I could go on and on. Our experience has not been all negative, however. My boys did get something out of going to high school. They did make new friends. They were introduced to new sports. One of them joined Drama. These are things we found difficult to do on our own. And I am forever grateful that we found some social outlet for both the boys. I do, however wish that the quality as well as the quantity of the material covered were higher.

 

The most positive outcome for us is that both boys now truly appreciate the time they spent doing 'school' at home. One of them is switching back to more homeschooling because he just needs more material.

 

Well, I think I rambled on. All this to say that CC in California works for many homeschooled kids; including mine.

[8filltheheart]

I just wanted to share the perspective of my rising 12th grader.  She has not DE or taken AP courses.  She has made the absolute most of homeschooling and studying the subjects she loves at her pace and in great depth.  I am in the middle of writing her course descriptions and what she has managed to accomplish is rather amazing.  It is absolutely nothing like an AP scholars course load and it is equally as far removed from a DE student.  But that does not mean it was a poor choice. Quite the contrary. Freedom to create her courses allowed her to put together some incredible courses.  She has ownership over the subjects she has studied and she has done exactly what she set out to do......study them in great depth. (Most of them are on par with upper level college courses.)  

 

She says she wouldn't change a thing.  She has loved her high school experience.  Now, the search for colleges that she likes is a tad more difficult.   ;)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I just wanted to share the perspective of my rising 12th grader.  She has not DE or taken AP courses.  She has made the absolute most of homeschooling and studying the subjects she loves at her pace and in great depth.  I am in the middle of writing her course descriptions and what she has managed to accomplish is rather amazing.  It is absolutely nothing like an AP scholars course load and it is equally as far removed from a DE student.  But that does not mean it was a poor choice. Quite the contrary. Freedom to create her courses allowed her to put together some incredible courses.  She has ownership over the subjects she has studied and she has done exactly what she set out to do......study them in great depth. (Most of them are on par with upper level college courses.)  

 

She says she wouldn't change a thing.  She has loved her high school experience.  Now, the search for colleges that she likes is a tad more difficult.   ;)

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes up for ds2.  His educational portfolio has been very a la carte, with some DE, some online from a homeschool provider, some online from a special Stanford program for high schoolers, some AP courses (mostly with syllabuses I created) and some regular coursework.  All in all it comes together in a transcript that is very him (yes, it has solid math, but it also has three languages and lots of history/government/economics).

 

I don't know exactly what colleges will make of him, but now that I have one college app season under my belt, I'm less worried that my kids will end up living under a bridge upon graduation.

[quark]

As with everything else, it's also family specific, not just state or college or high school specific.

 

If you don't have a kid who wants to self study or study with mom at home, who has outgrown some online offerings, who is not interested in delaying math skills for example through competition math and who has interests that are different from a traditional high school track, you have to fork out a lot of money in this state for private/ real-life resources.

 

CC's are such a steal in comparison. I think tuition is free or maybe $1 for DE students (someone correct me if I am wrong)? Even regular students pay only $46 a unit. DS's semester cost rarely exceeds $1K for 4 subjects, usually including (sometimes brand new) textbooks! That figure covers his music instruction too (previously we paid $120/ month for music lessons).

 

In our case, we don't have the quality worry as much. Yes, not all of his CC classes are up to par and I do complain that I wish it was better, and the math courses were really disappointing but son doesn't just stop at CC classes. He still takes classes with AoPS or self studies alongside CC classes using other materials and considers CC classes as his outlet for discussions/some external authority/ structure that keeps him accountable. Maybe that's why I don't feel like we are compromising on quality as much as someone else with high standards who might only be relying on CC.

 

The UCs really seem to like our CCs though. I might be wrong but the way the credits transfer and APs don't necessarily, it really is more tempting to take classes at a CC. We have some really good CCs here. Ours specifically is not the best but some departments are pretty cool and there are so many other skills son has learned that I would have found difficult to replicate locally in such short time. Another CC we almost used has a very respectable physics faculty due to proximity to a national security lab.

 

In spring, DS took one of his math classes at our flagship uni. He definitely found the material more challenging than the CC. BUT that was because he got lucky. The graduate student leading their discussions was absolutely fantastic and brought in so much external material and really made his students think. The prof? Not so much. He basically regurgitated everything in the textbook. This was an honors math section. At a highly respected research university.

 

It's just so hard to generalize!

Edited June 24, 2016 by quark

[Crimson Wife]

I just wanted to share the perspective of my rising 12th grader.  She has not DE or taken AP courses.  She has made the absolute most of homeschooling and studying the subjects she loves at her pace and in great depth.  I am in the middle of writing her course descriptions and what she has managed to accomplish is rather amazing.  It is absolutely nothing like an AP scholars course load and it is equally as far removed from a DE student.  But that does not mean it was a poor choice. Quite the contrary. Freedom to create her courses allowed her to put together some incredible courses.  She has ownership over the subjects she has studied and she has done exactly what she set out to do......study them in great depth. (Most of them are on par with upper level college courses.) 

 

California is I believe unique in the U.S. for trying to micromanage high school courses not just at public schools but also at private and home schools through requiring state approval or the student cannot go straight to a 4 year state school. It's ridiculous and it's not like the micromanagement actually has resulted in the state's schools being uniformly high quality (many of them are terrible). Art of Problem Solving tried for YEARS to get their math courses approved by CA and it took until April of this year for them to receive it.

 

If we were in any other state, I could HS for high school in a way that allowed my child the kind of academic freedom she craves. But not here in CA :thumbdown:

[Susie in CA]

If we were in any other state, I could HS for high school in a way that allowed my child the kind of academic freedom she craves. But not here in CA  :thumbdown:

 

 

Above is not entirely correct. You can homeschool in any way you want if you do an R4 in California. This is what we used to do and what many of our friends do. However, you are indeed micro-managed if you homeschool through any type of charter school.

[Crimson Wife]

If we were in any other state, I could HS for high school in a way that allowed my child the kind of academic freedom she craves. But not here in CA  :thumbdown:

 

 

Above is not entirely correct. You can homeschool in any way you want if you do an R4 in California. This is what we used to do and what many of our friends do. However, you are indeed micro-managed if you homeschool through any type of charter school.

 

The UC a-g requirements apply to both HSers who file the PSA (like we do now) and those who enroll in charter schools (like we have done in the past).

[Susie in CA]

The UC a-g requirements apply to both HSers who file the PSA (like we do now) and those who enroll in charter schools (like we have done in the past).

 

 

This only applies to you when you choose to enter a UC school as a freshman. If you choose to go to college elsewhere you do not have to go with the A-G requirements. The UC system has always been kind of 'anti'-homeschooling. This is not new. You can also transfer in as a Junior using the CC if you really want to go to a UC school. 

[Crimson Wife]

This only applies to you when you choose to enter a UC school as a freshman. If you choose to go to college elsewhere you do not have to go with the A-G requirements. The UC system has always been kind of 'anti'-homeschooling. This is not new. You can also transfer in as a Junior using the CC if you really want to go to a UC school. 

 

Many families cannot afford to write off the UC and CSU systems entirely 4 years ahead of time. If I knew for certain that my kids would qualify for merit scholarships at private and/or OOS schools, then I could just ignore the a-g requirements. But while I think it's likely my kids will be competitive for NMF and other merit scholarships, I cannot count on it. Hence why DE at CC is so attractive because completion of UC/CSU transferable courses there gets around the whole stupid a-g thing.

[8filltheheart]

 

I don't know exactly what colleges will make of him, but now that I have one college app season under my belt, I'm less worried that my kids will end up living under a bridge upon graduation.

 

Yes.Having been through this process multiple times now, I am far more confident about letting our homeschool be a homeschool with its own methodolgies and courses.  It can definitely be intimidating the first time through.  But, I am positive that our homeschool is academically-oriented and that my kids are well-prepared (over-prepared) for college level classes.   We were actually told by one dept to NOT have dd DE.  She told dd that whatever she was doing was working incredibly well and to not change b/c she would not be able to accomplish similar level objectives through DE.  (This was in reference to an essay written in French that dd showed her as an example of her work.  The professor told dd that they had srs majoring in French not writing that well.)

 

As with everything else, it's also family specific, not just state or college or high school specific.

......

 

It's just so hard to generalize!

 

Absolutely agree!  Ds could not have done the same thing at home that dd has done b/c math and physics are different beasts than humanities courses. DE was the best option for him for those subjects once he hit college level courses.

 

WIth dd, otoh, her courses are delving into literature, history books, and languages in a way which would be restricted by DE.  She is functioning on an incredibly high level.  We have spend months interviewing depts b/c we want to ensure that she will be able to place into depts appropriately.  Thankfully, languages are not like science and math.  Students can test with professors and be put into the appropriate level courses.  DEing in math and science probably would have been to her benefit b/c she hasn't done anything unusual or out of the ordinary with those subjects.  She just takes them to be done with them.  But, DEing interferred with her day's schedule which has been booked solid and the commuting would have eaten up a chunk of her day.  She didn't want to lose her time to driving back and forth. 

 

I was just sharing an additional perspective bc not DEing has been a good decision for dd.

Edited June 24, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[snowbeltmom]

California is I believe unique in the U.S. for trying to micromanage high school courses not just at public schools but also at private and home schools through requiring state approval or the student cannot go straight to a 4 year state school. It's ridiculous and it's not like the micromanagement actually has resulted in the state's schools being uniformly high quality (many of them are terrible). Art of Problem Solving tried for YEARS to get their math courses approved by CA and it took until April of this year for them to receive it.

 

If we were in any other state, I could HS for high school in a way that allowed my child the kind of academic freedom she craves. But not here in CA :thumbdown:

 

I am not in CA, but are you sure that you need  a-g approval in order to go straight to a 4 year CA state school? 

 

There are a lot of homeschoolers from CA on the list hs2coll yahoo group, and over the years, I have seen this topic mentioned quite a bit.  I may not be remembering correctly, but isn't there another option besides going the a-g route? 

 

If you are not a member of the yahoo group, you may want to join and ask if there is an alternative to a-g approval. 

 

[...................]

I am not in CA, but are you sure that you need  a-g approval in order to go straight to a 4 year CA state school? 

 

There are a lot of homeschoolers from CA on the list hs2coll yahoo group, and over the years, I have seen this topic mentioned quite a bit.  I may not be remembering correctly, but isn't there another option besides going the a-g route? 

 

If you are not a member of the yahoo group, you may want to join and ask if there is an alternative to a-g approval. 

 

 

There are...Admission by Testing....there's a rubric where they add up regular SAT scores and 2 SAT2 Subject tests (preferably related to your major somehow) and it has to reach a certain score, which may be higher or lower depending on department or even major.  BUT who's to say, starting 9th grade, how well your kid will test in 3 years on something?  So a lot of parents are afraid to rely on Admission by Testing.

[fairfarmhand]

The bolded may be correct for community colleges and lower ranked universities. It is not true for highly ranked universities - or even strong public Us.

Not even at the local public four year university where I teach do students repeat high school level courses unless they place in remedial math. And the coursework my DD took was above the level of even the DE courses she had at the public U while she was in high school - simply no comparison

 

College does not equal a repeat of high school, at least in our area.

 

Unless a student goes to a particular rigorous high school, college courses will challenge the average public schooled high schooler.

 

Most of the college professors and students I know talk about how the freshman year is a huge shift in academic rigor and demands for many students.

 

Students who are used to working very hard and studying do fine but they do find it challenging.

[quark]

I am not in CA, but are you sure that you need  a-g approval in order to go straight to a 4 year CA state school? 

 

There are a lot of homeschoolers from CA on the list hs2coll yahoo group, and over the years, I have seen this topic mentioned quite a bit.  I may not be remembering correctly, but isn't there another option besides going the a-g route? 

 

If you are not a member of the yahoo group, you may want to join and ask if there is an alternative to a-g approval. 

 

 

 

There are...Admission by Testing....there's a rubric where they add up regular SAT scores and 2 SAT2 Subject tests (preferably related to your major somehow) and it has to reach a certain score, which may be higher or lower depending on department or even major.  BUT who's to say, starting 9th grade, how well your kid will test in 3 years on something?  So a lot of parents are afraid to rely on Admission by Testing.

 

 

So from all the tidbits I've gathered from listening closely to local friends, their kids who got into UCs (I don't know any CSU families) didn't have to validate everything. Some didn't validate non a-g accredited foreign language with a SAT subject test for example. Some didn't validate the visual/ performing arts element with anything a-g or tests either but might have taken 8-10 years of an instrument locally in a small music school prior to applying, performing at recitals or local charity events. Some did no a-g courses but took AP exams and/ or SAT (but not 12-15 of those). All probably had excellent ECs (but not necessarily earth shatteringly brilliant ones). If I understood another friend correctly, her child DE-ed his 4th year of English and that transferable, freshman-level composition class at the CC (with an A) validated all 4 years of his English studies (the other 3 were not tested/ a-g if I recall correctly).

 

All of them had something else significant to talk about in essays e.g. the last DC I mentioned above was a physics superstar.

 

These families didn't use homeschool charters for their a-g validation/ transcript but homeschooled via the private school affidavit option. The thing is everyone did a large variety of things, and paid attention to essays and probably got in through a combo of those things so it's really hard to pinpoint cases and say this person took admission by test and succeeded while that person did not.

 

For us, we are driven by the child's need for higher challenge and knowledge that while we could potentially afford a 4-year private school, we'd be very stressed to be paying that much (and thinking of his grad school expenses on top of that) and that UCs definitely make more financial sense. So we take steps to address the "now" of his needs and slowly research as much as we can so he will have a good chance either one way (a-g through DE at the CC) or another (a small number of relevant, not over the top standardized testing and aiming for good scores).

[Crimson Wife]

I am not in CA, but are you sure that you need  a-g approval in order to go straight to a 4 year CA state school? 

 

There are a lot of homeschoolers from CA on the list hs2coll yahoo group, and over the years, I have seen this topic mentioned quite a bit.  I may not be remembering correctly, but isn't there another option besides going the a-g route?

 

There are options for testing out but it's a lot of hoop-jumping and again it's putting a LOT of eggs in one basket 4 years ahead of time. My kids are good test-takers but I wouldn't want their ability to attend a college that we can actually afford to hinge solely on their standardized test-taking abilities.

[Susie in CA]

Many families cannot afford to write off the UC and CSU systems entirely 4 years ahead of time. If I knew for certain that my kids would qualify for merit scholarships at private and/or OOS schools, then I could just ignore the a-g requirements. But while I think it's likely my kids will be competitive for NMF and other merit scholarships, I cannot count on it. Hence why DE at CC is so attractive because completion of UC/CSU transferable courses there gets around the whole stupid a-g thing.

 

 

I am agreeing with you completely. This is what most homeschoolers I know do....They simply take the A-G courses at the local CC while still in high school. If at that point their students choose to go to college elsewhere they do. It has not been a problem for anyone I know. In fact, some are able to cut one year of college at non-UC schools. Plus they do in fact have a lot of time to take courses of interest in addition to whatever they 'need' to take. 

[mllehmann]

My oldest started taking CC courses as a Freshman in HS so he had lots of college credits when he went off to a 4 year university.  We were surprised during his senior year that he was considered a 5th year due to the number of credits he had (even though it was his 4th year at the university) and that the university wanted to end his 1/2 tuition scholarship.  Not good!  We were able to appeal and have his scholarship reinstated.  Now I know to ask.

[SeaConquest]

We're a huge ways off, but thank you for this thread. I had always assumed, from comments made here, that the AP/SAT2 method was preferred for meeting a-g, due to the known rigor of AP/SAT2 vs. CC classes of uneven quality, but I can understand how that could end up being a long, soul-sucking slog for a lot of kids, or a big gamble if attempting admission by examination. I hope that Quark is right about the UCs taking a more holistic admissions approach. That would make homeschools like 8's seem much more doable here.

 

<Slinks back over to K-8> :)

Edited June 28, 2016 by SeaConquest

[DocMom]

I can't answer the larger question but just wanted to say--DS is going to a brick and mortar high school. We could move to any school district in the NY/NJ area and there are some very good ones, if rankings and tests scores is what we go by. For whatever reason that I cannot articulate I've decided DE is preferable to AP so we are most likely moving to a "decent enough" school district but with a very strong, formal DE program at several universities. There are enough classes he can take to fill 4 years of high school ;)

 

Can I bump a year old thread? Is it normal to take DE classes as a freshman? Does anyone have experience? I was under the impression you had to wait until you were Junior/Senior?

[madteaparty]

Can I bump a year old thread? Is it normal to take DE classes as a freshman? Does anyone have experience? I was under the impression you had to wait until you were Junior/Senior?

It seems different states/schools have different rules. A homeschooled middle schooler can apparently take DE classes here so long as you pay the full per credit price (and this is a 4 yr uni, not community college). On the other hand, a high school in the city told me I could arrange and pay for all the DE my heart desired, it still would not fulfill the foreign language requirement and DS had to start a new language, at the high school, for it to count.

So it's not the university, it's also the high school (if not homeschooled) that you need to worry about.

Edited March 12, 2017 by madteaparty

[Kassia]

Here in Ohio, students can DE starting in 7th grade.  My dd started as a rising freshman for Spanish last summer and has taken four Spanish classes.  Next year she will take more courses - science, math, and art.  

[Hunter]

I didn't read the whole thread. Sorry.

 

my oldest started CC early as a full time Freshman.

 

First he graduated from American School with a GENERAL diploma, and used that to qualify for Pell Grants that required full freshman status.

 

We were very very very poor and living in domestic abuse. Starting and graduating college early, any college, allowed my son to make it across the country as an entirely financially independent adult at barely 19 years old. He was a bit chubby when he left, and lost about 50 pounds his first year or so out there, but he made it. He married, built a nice home, and is still out there.

 

Dual enrollment is often only possible for wealthier kids. It varies state to state.

 

I was a crappy parent, I guess, but I have gave my boys every last fume of what I had.  And my oldest ran with everything I gave him. This was the best WE could do. Period.

 

My son had to pay every penny of what was not covered by Pell Grants, himself,  including the required health insurance. He chose not to take out loans. He held onto full time status and stayed on track, by scheduling electives during short quick courses taken during breaks. He couldn't handle taking 4 or 5 courses and working full time, at such a young age.

 

Truthfully, we broke just about every child labor law on the books. He worked for foreign employers not aware of the laws, and often so distracted by what grade he was in that they forgot his age.

 

But when everything imploded just a few months after he left, he was on the other side of the country and spared what his brother wasn't spared. I would never change what we did. Never. Even the on-job injuries from a minor using equipment that was not safe. Thankful he didn't lose any body parts, but even a lost finger would have been worth it.

 

Sometimes we have to make choices based on the REAL world that WE live in. As parents we are just human, flawed humans with limited abilities and resources. Being REAL about what we HAVE to offer is a gift to our kids.  It does no good to be distracted by theoretical shoulds that don't apply to us.

[Hunter]

Oops old thread. That is what I get for only skimming thread before posting. :lol:

[Crimson Wife]

 

I was a crappy parent, I guess, but I have gave my boys every last fume of what I had.  And my oldest ran with everything I gave him. This was the best WE could do. Period.

 

My son had to pay every penny of what was not covered by Pell Grants, himself,  including the required health insurance. He chose not to take out loans. He held onto full time status and stayed on track, by scheduling electives during short quick courses taken during breaks. He couldn't handle taking 4 or 5 courses and working full time, at such a young age.

 

Truthfully, we broke just about every child labor law on the books. He worked for foreign employers not aware of the laws, and often so distracted by what grade he was in that they forgot his age.

 

But when everything imploded just a few months after he left, he was on the other side of the country and spared what his brother wasn't spared. I would never change what we did. Never. Even the on-job injuries from a minor using equipment that was not safe. Thankful he didn't lose any body parts, but even a lost finger would have been worth it.

 

Sometimes we have to make choices based on the REAL world that WE live in. As parents we are just human, flawed humans with limited abilities and resources. Being REAL about what we HAVE to offer is a gift to our kids.  It does no good to be distracted by theoretical shoulds that don't apply to us.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

And you are NOT a "cr*ppy parent". :)

 

[Shellydon]

Our local  CC courses are much less rigorous that what our co-op offers, online schools or what I can teach at home.  I can offer a much more rigorous and thorough education that our local CC.  So, it would defiantly depend on your local college

[Susie in CA]

Can I bump a year old thread? Is it normal to take DE classes as a freshman? Does anyone have experience? I was under the impression you had to wait until you were Junior/Senior?

 

I think this may vary by state and even individual community colleges. I know in my area some cc's do not allow kids under 15 years old at all. However, we have one nearby which does allow younger students. My younger ds was only 13 when he took his first DE class (a young high school freshman). But even in my geographic location many people are under the impression that you have to wait until you are a junior. This is not correct. It depends mostly on the colleges policies.