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What about essentially skipping high school and going straight to CommunityCollege?


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We had our meeting with our PSP director and she kind of thinks my oldest should just take our state exam and go straight to CC.  He would do half a year of 9th grade, and then just begin slowly taking courses.  He would start with College Success and an English course while finishing math at home.  Then little by little he would just take two courses per semester instead of 4....

 

Socially it's fine because he can still hang with his swim team, church buddies, and maybe the robot team (we are moving that's why that's a maybe)....I think he would actually get MORE time with his little sister because of the way the scheduling would work out.

 

Logistically it's not too bad because he would take one online class and one in-person class, so I would only have to drive him there twice a week.  By the time he is 17 he will drive himself.

 

Financially it's a total win.  The CC classes aren't much more than a year of online high school classes and equal to our local homeschool Class Center.  

 

I am just wondering about the academics...it looks to me like the first two years in college, you repeat the stuff you learned in high school at greater depth, for the most part.  Especially in Science.  For example you take Biology in hs, then in college...you take CHemistry in high school then in college....

 

He may also complete 9th grade at home, while getting all the counseling and paperwork and then go...which would still mean he would never have CHemistry before his CC chemistry course.

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Thinking out loud about possible downsides:  the grades become part of the college GPA, forever, yes?  I'd also be wary of potentially having to apply to competitive 4 yr colleges as a transfer student, both for admissions and for scholarship/financial aid purposes, though I have no idea what triggers that besides high school graduation.

 

Academically, what sorts of peers are in these classes - ones similar to your ds or adults pursuing remedial studies?

 

What are the student's long-term goals?

 

I don't know... in the big picture, to me there is no such thing as "skipping" high school; either high school is covered earlier for a very advanced student or it's covered in the form of an ordinary high school class or a weak "college" class for an average student.  I did not find the first two years of (a competitive) college to repeat anything from high school.  Nothing.

 

But what you describe, a gradual introduction of CC courses, is not necessarily skipping high school.  That sounds rather typical around here, no?

 

Is the English course supposed to be college English 101?  That has its own issues (mature themes, among others).

Edited by wapiti
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It all depends on your goals and educational philosophy. Why would you want to do this? What is the benefit?

 

I am just wondering about the academics...it looks to me like the first two years in college, you repeat the stuff you learned in high school at greater depth, for the most part.  Especially in Science.  For example you take Biology in hs, then in college...you take CHemistry in high school then in college....

The bolded is not true. The course choices depend on the student's major and vary greatly, except for a few core requirements. Many students do not retake biology or chemistry, for example. Or they take a course for the first time without having had it in high school. And there are lots of courses that are not offered on high school level.

 

We chose not to go this route, for a variety of reasons. We preferred the freedom to customize high school education at home and the ability to offer more rigorous coursework than CC by home designed courses and DE at a four year university. Graduating from CC at age 16 would not have benefited my DD's educational goals. YMMV.

 

ETA: As pp pointed out, this is not really "skipping high school" - it is merely taking high school level coursework at CC. My main concern about this would be the selection of students taking such courses. I see no benefit in having an accelerated high schooler take a class with struggling older students doing remedial coursework, which is the main reason I would never consider a math class below calculus at CC.

 

Btw, taking a few courses at CC, in addition to high school level coursework at home, is fairly standard and not "skipping high school" either.

 

Edited by regentrude
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I am just wondering about the academics...it looks to me like the first two years in college, you repeat the stuff you learned in high school at greater depth, for the most part.  Especially in Science.  For example you take Biology in hs, then in college...you take CHemistry in high school then in college....

 

I'm out of my depth to answer the question as a whole, but I did find this to be true, not of the sciences, but of English and History. I couldn't believe what a retread they were for me. I had a required English class for majors where I had read absolutely everything on a syllabus already save two short essay works. But it wasn't true for everyone - and I think this is just a potential peril of a good high school age education to college no matter what.

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My dd chose to do this with success. She wasn't interested in a degree in science or math, wasn't at all interested in an elite school and didn't see any point in taking twice as many classes, even if they were at a higher level the second time through. Her 8th grade year she took low level high school courses; Honors freshman English I, Honors physical science, Honors Latin I and algebra I. In 9th she jumped right into university classes. However, the only class she struggled with was chemistry (taken at the local CC, not the university.) She has strongly advised all of her siblings to first take a high school level chemistry class. For her, it was too much information at too fast a pace with the rest of the students having a better background in chemistry.

 

That said, you have to know your child. This plan would never, ever work for any of my other children.

 

ETA: My dd did this as a DE student. We did not graduate her as DE classes here are free. She earned 117 college credits while in high school but, maintained her college freshman status for scholarships. She could graduate with her BA next year. Instead, she plans to spend three to four years at the university pursuing multiple degrees.

Edited by Melissa B
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I'm curious - what does Dual Enrollment look like in your state?  If you don't know, you might want to look into it.

 

Some of us with high school students do part time dual enrollment and our school districts cover some or all of the cost of classes.

 

For us, DS wanted to continue extra-curricular activities at the high school level.  (We considered graduating him this year rather than the next.)  We also know that after he is done (and will have over 40 DE credits) with high school, we do not want him considered a transfer student when he attends the state university.  Scholarships are generally more generous to students viewed as incoming freshman rather than transfers, but again, this is individual to the student AND the state U / college.

 

We also were not fully confident in his ability to maintain very high grades in college while still a high school student.  These classes are a part of the student's permanent GPA.  All of this played a part in our own personal decision as well as the fact that I would not (personally) feel comfortable sending my 14-16yo to CC campus with (no offense intended) what can potentially be a large portion of unmotivated students.  Certainly many bright and motivated kids attend CC first, but I just needed DS to gain more maturity.

 

He attended morning classes this year on a regional (outlying campus closer to us) and was done by noon.  Next semester he will drive himself to main campus, but classes are stacked back to back from about noon until almost four in the afternoon.  

Edited by BlsdMama
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I had the opportunity to do this after 9th grade, but turned it down because I wanted the "typical high school" experience. One of the big mistakes of my life IMO. If your kiddo is smart, he'll do just fine in CC classes. Probably even thrive. If you are worried about classes like chemistry, maybe pay for either a tutor or a high school level homeschool co-op class for him to get a taste of it. Or see if he can audit the class first for a smaller fee. Why can't he take Chemistry in 9th if he does 9th and then CC?

 

IMO 90% of my college classes were review of high school, sometimes even on the same level. Especially for things like English, college algebra, social sciences, and languages. Of the remaining 10%, half were the same subject just more in depth, and only in a few classes did I learn something new consistently. Now granted I didn't go to a highly competitive academic University, but they were ranked okay. 

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We had our meeting with our PSP director and she kind of thinks my oldest should just take our state exam and go straight to CC.  He would do half a year of 9th grade, and then just begin slowly taking courses.  He would start with College Success and an English course while finishing math at home.  Then little by little he would just take two courses per semester instead of 4....

 

Socially it's fine because he can still hang with his swim team, church buddies, and maybe the robot team (we are moving that's why that's a maybe)....I think he would actually get MORE time with his little sister because of the way the scheduling would work out.

 

Logistically it's not too bad because he would take one online class and one in-person class, so I would only have to drive him there twice a week.  By the time he is 17 he will drive himself.

 

Financially it's a total win.  The CC classes aren't much more than a year of online high school classes and equal to our local homeschool Class Center.  

 

I am just wondering about the academics...it looks to me like the first two years in college, you repeat the stuff you learned in high school at greater depth, for the most part.  Especially in Science.  For example you take Biology in hs, then in college...you take CHemistry in high school then in college....

 

He may also complete 9th grade at home, while getting all the counseling and paperwork and then go...which would still mean he would never have CHemistry before his CC chemistry course.

 

Both of my daughters did that.

 

I went to the very first CHEA convention in 1983? 84? My dc were still young, but the only classes I went to all day were the ones about getting your children through high school. It was there that I learned that the lower division courses in college are a repeat of high school (I have no college, so I did not know), and what is the point of repeating them? So both my dds did c.c. instead of high school. They began taking classes when they were 14 (college students, not dual-enrolled high school students).

 

I advised all my PSP families to consider c.c. instead of high school. In California, it's definitely a win.

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It was there that I learned that the lower division courses in college are a repeat of high school (I have no college, so I did not know), and what is the point of repeating them?

 

The bolded may be correct for community colleges and lower ranked universities. It is not true for highly ranked universities - or even strong public Us.

Not even at the local public four year university where I teach do students repeat high school level courses unless they place in remedial math. And the coursework my DD took was above the level of even the DE courses she had at the public U while she was in high school - simply no comparison

Edited by regentrude
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. However, the only class she struggled with was chemistry (taken at the local CC, not the university.) She has strongly advised all of her siblings to first take a high school level chemistry class. For her, it was too much information at too fast a pace with the rest of the students having a better background in chemistry.

 

 

 

Our CC has an "Elementary Chemistry" class which I plan for my dd to take before taking college chemistry there.  It is for students with no background in chemistry.  

 

Homeschoolers pay for DE here, but our CC has discounted rates which makes it easier.  My dd is a rising 9th grader and is taking Spanish at the CC.  My plan is that she'll take a few more classes in her sophomore year and then go full time for junior and senior year.  We'll see.  One of my sons went full time in his junior and senior year and it worked out very well.  He did start with the Elementary Chemistry class before taking college chemistry.

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Youngest DS is in a public early college high school program. As a freshman he took two college level classes first semester and two the second semester. The college course load continued to build until as a junior he was taking a full load of college classes. He will graduate in May with an AS degree and a week later will receive his high school diploma. So IME it's certainly a do-able thing. I'm guessing that other than academics the main issue most parents have is their children being around adults and the adult "theme" of many classes. If your son is sensitive or sheltered (I don't mean that in a negative way but don't know how else to phrase it, and am just going by the fact that you mentioned socializing with his church friends) then some of the topics of discussion in college classes may be a bit eye opening for him.

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Our experience...

 

We are in Northern CA.

 

My son essentially skipped junior high and went straight into CC, but that's not how I am looking at it. I look at it as using CC for his high school classes but not graduating him from my homeschool. We used the CHSPE exam to enable this, not CAHSEE. Like your son, socially mine hangs out with his local homeschooled buddies. Interestingly, his friends are also starting to take CC classes (via CHSPE). We used CHSPE because it allows him:

1. Regular student access and therefore, he can still enjoy priority enrollment BUT we pay for classes out of pocket

2. To still remain in my homeschool because he is under 18

3. To apply as a freshman eventually because he hasn't graduated from my high school

 

We waited till he was strong enough in math to place into calculus. Even then, he hasn't found the math interesting or challenging and classmates' attitude has been dismal. He finally found one similarly interested classmate in Calc III and said student was a high school DE kid.

 

As for quality of classes, I sincerely don't feel that (ETA 1: his) CC goes into greater depth (despite being a top feeder transfer program to Cal) than a very challenging and well-researched homeschool high school program using high quality materials. At least not for math. Possibly in humanities and sciences it is a quality program but this will depend very much on instructor to instructor.

 

HOWEVER, CC did give my only child the classroom and face-to-face instructor experience that helps him thrive. He loves being out there instead of at home with the computer all the time. I couldn't access the type of music interactions he gets now outside of CC so at least for jazz it has been a tremendous win for him.

 

For math, where he really craves challenge, we now use the public university.

 

My son has only had high school physics with lab before his CC physics course. He is a gifted learner and his mastery of math was probably what helped him best. He will take biology and chemistry for the first time at the CC in the coming fall (we've only done conceptual bio and chem at home). For science especially, it is very nice to have priority enrollment. If your son likes Chemistry, he might be able to place into a higher Chemistry class via placement exam.

 

I thought that the very mature content for the humanities will be an issue but so far it hasn't. He is a mature kid and handles it pretty well. He did have to kick up his writing abilities several notches and is now able to write as required. This is another score for us because it was very hard to teach him writing at home. We had to unschool it for several years and thankfully he was happy to write for CC profs afterwards.

 

Initially, son's goals were to transfer but after researching all the things he could do at a 4-year school, he has opted to try as a freshman applicant.

 

ETA 2: Apart from honors society at CC, his extracurriculars are all outside programs.

ETA 3: GPA will follow him around but has not been an issue so far. If we were not confident about him maintaining a high GPA we probably wouldn't have taken this route.

ETA 4: Easing into on-campus classes by first taking online classes is a good idea and slowly gaining popularity among the people we know. Maybe a peculiarity but DS really disliked the lack of rigor in his 2 online classes so far. He found on-campus classes to be better in that regard.

Edited by quark
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Quark, thanks for all that info! I really appreciate it.

 

One thing that confuses me, is, how can your son apply as a freshman? I though you had to have no more than about one year's worth of credits to apply as a freshman? (About 30?)

 

CT, it's a pleasure and glad that was helpful! If you don't mind, could you let me know where that information about 30 credits is from? I'd like to research it some more.

 

We don't know yet 100% for sure if he will be accepted as a freshman but in our local homeschool community, we have had a good number of students apply as freshmen with >60 CA CC credits and be accepted to UCs and other schools. We are confident that my son will also be one but in case he is rejected on that account, he will simply apply the following year as a transfer. When I spoke to a Cal admissions counselor, she basically said that if he is in high school (and I clarified that mine is a PSA homeschool), he can bring in those credits and to explain all circumstances in the essays. We don't know if all the credits will be accepted but there is a chance that at least prereqs will be waived.

 

HTH!

 

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Our experience...

 

We are in Northern CA.

 

My son essentially skipped junior high and went straight into CC, but that's not how I am looking at it. I look at it as using CC for his high school classes but not graduating him from my homeschool. We used the CHSPE exam to enable this, not CAHSEE. Like your son, socially mine hangs out with his local homeschooled buddies. Interestingly, his friends are also starting to take CC classes (via CHSPE). We used CHSPE because it allows him:

1. Regular student access and therefore, he can still enjoy priority enrollment BUT we pay for classes out of pocket

2. To still remain in my homeschool because he is under 18

3. To apply as a freshman eventually because he hasn't graduated from my high school

 

We waited till he was strong enough in math to place into calculus. Even then, he hasn't found the math interesting or challenging and classmates' attitude has been dismal. He finally found one similarly interested classmate in Calc III and said student was a high school DE kid.

 

As for quality of classes, I sincerely don't feel that (ETA 1: his) CC goes into greater depth (despite being a top feeder transfer program to Cal) than a very challenging and well-researched homeschool high school program using high quality materials. At least not for math. Possibly in humanities and sciences it is a quality program but this will depend very much on instructor to instructor.

 

HOWEVER, CC did give my only child the classroom and face-to-face instructor experience that helps him thrive. He loves being out there instead of at home with the computer all the time. I couldn't access the type of music interactions he gets now outside of CC so at least for jazz it has been a tremendous win for him.

 

For math, where he really craves challenge, we now use the public university.

 

My son has only had high school physics with lab before his CC physics course. He is a gifted learner and his mastery of math was probably what helped him best. He will take biology and chemistry for the first time at the CC in the coming fall (we've only done conceptual bio and chem at home). For science especially, it is very nice to have priority enrollment. If your son likes Chemistry, he might be able to place into a higher Chemistry class via placement exam.

 

I thought that the very mature content for the humanities will be an issue but so far it hasn't. He is a mature kid and handles it pretty well. He did have to kick up his writing abilities several notches and is now able to write as required. This is another score for us because it was very hard to teach him writing at home. We had to unschool it for several years and thankfully he was happy to write for CC profs afterwards.

 

Initially, son's goals were to transfer but after researching all the things he could do at a 4-year school, he has opted to try as a freshman applicant.

 

ETA 2: Apart from honors society at CC, his extracurriculars are all outside programs.

ETA 3: GPA will follow him around but has not been an issue so far. If we were not confident about him maintaining a high GPA we probably wouldn't have taken this route.

ETA 4: Easing into on-campus classes by first taking online classes is a good idea and slowly gaining popularity among the people we know. Maybe a peculiarity but DS really disliked the lack of rigor in his 2 online classes so far. He found on-campus classes to be better in that regard.

I have a friend whose daughter took this path and it worked out great for her. I could have done this with my oldest DD, but she wanted the opportunity to go to college as a first year student. She did Laurel Springs Gifted 10+AP classes for high school. 

 

How does applying to a four college as a freshman applicant work if you've taken CC classes? From what I remember, the California High School Proficiency Exam (CHSPE) is a must for CCs in California with huge student populations. Concurrent enrollment just doesn't work here. High school students are last for class choice.The CHSPE is not the same as the GED. 

 

Since business has tanked these past few years and I can not longer afford Laurel Springs, I am looking at this option again for my younger DD.

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One thing that confuses me, is, how can your son apply as a freshman? I though you had to have no more than about one year's worth of credits to apply as a freshman? (About 30?)

 

No, that is not generally correct.

My DD applied, and was accepted, as a freshman, despite having 32 credits from a four year university.

That is not at all uncommon. Check with the college (which tends to be the general advice for pretty much everything that has to do with college admission, LOL)

Edited by regentrude
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CT one more thing to be aware of with CC classes is the pace of classes. Even if content is not necessarily challenging, the pace can be. Everything is double time.

 

For my student that works well but it might not for every child.

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Quark, thanks for all that info! I really appreciate it.

 

One thing that confuses me, is, how can your son apply as a freshman? I though you had to have no more than about one year's worth of credits to apply as a freshman? (About 30?)

 

My son entered university as a first-year student, but had over 60 college credits from DE.  

 

Erica

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I have a friend whose daughter took this path and it worked out great for her. I could have done this with my oldest DD, but she wanted the opportunity to go to college as a first year student. She did Laurel Springs Gifted 10+AP classes for high school. 

 

How does applying to a four college as a freshman applicant work if you've taken CC classes? From what I remember, the California High School Proficiency Exam (CHSPE) is a must for CCs in California with huge student populations. Concurrent enrollment just doesn't work here. High school students are last for class choice.The CHSPE is not the same as the GED. 

 

Since business has tanked these past few years and I can not longer afford Laurel Springs, I am looking at this option again for my younger DD.

 

We haven't applied yet...he will submit applications this fall. Basically, I will list his CC courses along with homeschool courses in his high school transcript (using exact name and classifying them under relevant subject areas) and for Common App schools, explain them in course descriptions. I will briefly explain our educational philosophy and acceleration history in the school profile or counselor letter (haven't decided which). And then have the community college send the official transcript to the schools.

 

CHSPE allows under-18s to be enrolled back in school with parental permission.

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No, that is not generally correct.

My DD applied, and was accepted, as a freshman, despite having 32 credits from a four year university.

That is not at all uncommon. Check with the college (which tends to be the general advice for pretty much everything that has to do with college admission, LOL)

 

 

I know that here it is the difference between declaring graduation or not.

 

 

DS is a high school student who is dual enrolled.  He'll have 40+ credits and will still be considered a freshman.

If he graduated this spring (May) and attended CC even for the summer as a graduated student, he would be considered a student transferring in, even less than 30 credits.

 

When we looked into a gap year for oldest DD (she did not take a gap year in the end) one of the things we had to consider was that some colleges and universities will only consider it a gap year and see her as an incoming freshman as long as she has not been a student and taken classes in the time since she left high school.  This varies from college to college.

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Quark, thanks for all that info! I really appreciate it.

 

One thing that confuses me, is, how can your son apply as a freshman? I though you had to have no more than about one year's worth of credits to apply as a freshman? (About 30?)

 

My son will be applying to a four year university as a freshman despite having already earned an AS degree. The reason is that his AS will have been earned while he's still in high school.

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The bolded may be correct for community colleges and lower ranked universities. It is not true for highly ranked universities - or even strong public Us.

 

Not even at the local public four year university where I teach do students repeat high school level courses unless they place in remedial math. And the coursework my DD took was above the level of even the DE courses she had at the public U while she was in high school - simply no comparison

 

The homeschooled students we knew in California who did c.c. instead of high school had no problems being accepted in colleges and universities of all sorts, all over the country. I cannot speak for everyone, of course, but within my [large] circle of homeschoolers, all of them were accepted at colleges and universities (including Harvard) of their choice with only their c.c. classes, as juniors, and not just lower-ranked colleges.

 

FTR, most did not take the CHSPE (California High School Proficiency Exam). Also, they took the c.c. classes as college students, not dual-enrolled high school students. And also, every c.c. has its own policies about enrolling under-age students.

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CT, it's a pleasure and glad that was helpful! If you don't mind, could you let me know where that information about 30 credits is from? I'd like to research it some more.

 

We don't know yet 100% for sure if he will be accepted as a freshman but in our local homeschool community, we have had a good number of students apply as freshmen with >60 CA CC credits and be accepted to UCs and other schools. We are confident that my son will also be one but in case he is rejected on that account, he will simply apply the following year as a transfer. When I spoke to a Cal admissions counselor, she basically said that if he is in high school (and I clarified that mine is a PSA homeschool), he can bring in those credits and to explain all circumstances in the essays. We don't know if all the credits will be accepted but there is a chance that at least prereqs will be waived.

 

HTH!

 

 

I wish I could remember! It could be just plain old misinformation.  Maybe I'm mixing up the Dual Enrollment requirements with the transfer requirements.  (aka DE only allows so many credits per semester)??

 

Thanks also for the warning about pace.  A few friends I was chatting with said that would be the number one concern more than the material.  My particular son actually would do fine with that as it would allow him to hyper focus on one or two subjects at a time.  in fact I think he would prefer it.  

 

Another friend whose ds took this path warned me that the English are the worst as far as questionable and outright awful material.  (What some people call mature content.)....so I would just put off English for the first year, and then go to the bookstore, look at the book lists and pick out the least concerning teacher/prof.  

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The homeschooled students we knew in California who did c.c. instead of high school had no problems being accepted in colleges and universities of all sorts, all over the country. I cannot speak for everyone, of course, but within my [large] circle of homeschoolers, all of them were accepted at colleges and universities (including Harvard) of their choice with only their c.c. classes, as juniors, and not just lower-ranked colleges.

 

I do not doubt that and never claimed this would not be the case.

I do, however, not understand why you post this in response to my post in which I stated that your claim lower level college classes are just a repeat of high school is not generally correct. I fail to see what the fact that the students who took high school level classes at CC got admitted to universities has to do with that.

Edited by regentrude
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Well, my son did this sort of, though it wouldn't work now.  He took 1 course each semester his freshman year.  Then he took 2 each semester his 10th grade year.  Then 3 classes the fall of his junior year and then 4 classes his spring jr semester and both semesters his senior year.  He was accepted as a freshman despite having over 60 hours .  He will graduate in 2 1/2 years.  ( Many of his classes didn't count toward his degree because they had a lot more religion courses.)   He got freshman scholarships.  It was awesome and perfect for him.

 

That said.  I hear from a friend that they have changed the dual credit rules at our CC.  They now only allow a certain amount of hours in a certain section of classes.  I was sad to hear that.  I thought part of the good thing about dual credit is that a student could explore cosmetology or business or music theory or some kind of class that would allow them to see if a possible major was a good fit.  Just taking the basic reading, writing and math classes wouldn't have been as helpful in my opinion. 

Just to be clear, we are not talking about Dual Credit, (for me the OP) because our CC's are so impacted kids almost never get their Dual Enrollment courses.  THey wait and wait and wait and almost never get them.  We are talking about taking the state exam and paying for the CC classes, wherein the college sees the student as a regular CC student but the student is really high school age, or even considering themselves a high schooler.

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Just to be clear, we are not talking about Dual Credit, (for me the OP) because our CC's are so impacted kids almost never get their Dual Enrollment courses.  ... We are talking about taking the state exam and paying for the CC classes, wherein the college sees the student as a regular CC student but the student is really high school age, or even considering themselves a high schooler.

 

So basically you graduate your 14 y/o from high school, then pay for a college education at CC, and have him graduate at 18 from CC? Is that  what your student plans for his education? What is the benefit of this as opposed to giving the student a rigorous high school education at home, graduating at regular age, and then attending a good university with a strong transcript? I am not being facetious; I just could not figure out from your previous posts what exactly your motivation is for this course of action. It may well be a good course for your student.

Edited by regentrude
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I wish I could remember! It could be just plain old misinformation.  Maybe I'm mixing up the Dual Enrollment requirements with the transfer requirements.  (aka DE only allows so many credits per semester)??

 

Thanks also for the warning about pace.  A few friends I was chatting with said that would be the number one concern more than the material.  My particular son actually would do fine with that as it would allow him to hyper focus on one or two subjects at a time.  in fact I think he would prefer it.  

 

Another friend whose ds took this path warned me that the English are the worst as far as questionable and outright awful material.  (What some people call mature content.)....so I would just put off English for the first year, and then go to the bookstore, look at the book lists and pick out the least concerning teacher/prof.  

 

What I've heard is that a homeschool charter/PSP-registered DE student can take 11 units a semester...and then they reduced it to 7 or maybe 6 depending on the CC and charter/ PSP. Then I heard that our CC, while allowing DE, will reject the application if >10% of the class is going to be DE students (so they cap it at say 1 DE student per 10 regular students). Like you mentioned, classes are just so full now that it is so hard for anyone without regular status.

 

BUT, and a big BUT, students sometimes can still get in if they are there on first day of class and it so happens that a lot of registered students did not turn up or dropped the class prior to the first day. It's been known to happen and happened to DS once too (his very first semester, before his priority standing kicked in in the second semester). Not completely relevant if your DS uses the CHSPE but do be aware that even so, he might not receive priority that first semester or his priority will only be a week or so before DE students register which is pretty late too.

 

We put off English the first year too...BUT, some classes are milder and definitely instructor-dependent (we spend some time on Rate My Prof before DS chooses a class). DS had a short stories class that while somewhat mature, did not go into gratuitous s*x and violence like others might, started a very deep interest in Latin American literature as a result, introduced him to authors he might never have picked up and won him the friendship of a very sweet and highly qualified prof (they had a wonderful time during office hours discussing all kinds of books).

 

Just FYI, for many UCs, their high-unit cap for transfer credits is 80-ish/90, not 60-ish: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/files/uc-transfer-maximum-limitation-policy-chart.pdf

 

Edited by quark
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Calming Tea, I agree with you that there is a lot of overlap between good high school classes and college classes.

 

In fact, I often found my high school coursework to be more challenging than my college coursework. Granted, I was not majoring in Nuclear Thermodynamics or anything, but I went to a good high school and a good state university, and I felt that my required college Tier 1 (core, sometimes called general education) classes at the university, spread across English, math, science, and foreign language, were not any harder than my high school classes. It wasn't until the upper-level classes that I felt that the difficulty increased.

 

I would not send my kids full time to the CC instead of doing high school coursework at home, but if it would work for your son, then it would probably be fine.

 

I do find it rather distasteful how much people seem to rag on community colleges. I went to a community college for two years (junior year in high school, the next year as a freshman because I graduated early from high school), and it didn't hinder me. In my opinion, for most people and most majors, starting at the CC (either through dual enrollment or as a regular college student) is a perfectly fine route to take.

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 I felt that my required college Tier 1 (core, sometimes called general education) classes at the university, spread across English, math, science, and foreign language, were not any harder than my high school classes. It wasn't until the upper-level classes that I felt that the difficulty increased.

 

May I ask a question? I am puzzled by the statement above, because I do not understand how the college level math and foreign language classes would not be more advanced than the high school classes. I would expect a student who has taken, say, precalculus in high school to place into calculus 1 at college, and a student who has taken French 1 and 2 in high school to place into upper level French courses at college.

So, I am not sure I understand what you are saying here - unless the student who took precalc and French 2 in high school did not achieve mastery and placed into precalc and introductory French again at college, which to me would rather indicate a weakness of the high school course if the placement test necessitates repetition.

Edited by regentrude
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This a general reply.

 

1) Quality of CC courses versus four year colleges that your student will most likely be attending. (expected future college cost, HS GPA, SAT/ACT scores, etc)

2) How accelerated is your student now (end of 8th grade) versus typical B&M school student in your state.

3) Possible majors in college - some CCs have very limited course selection some others have a large selection (including some online).

 

Maybe start after 9th grade?

Why "College Success" as a graded class?

Edited by MarkT
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May I ask a question? I am puzzled by the statement above, because I do not understand how the college level math and foreign language classes would not be more advanced than the high school classes. I would expect a student who has taken, say, precalculus in high school to place into calculus 1 at college, and a student who has taken French 1 and 2 in high school to place into upper level French courses at college.

So, I am not sure I understand what you are saying here - unless the student who took precalc and French 2 in high school did not achieve mastery and placed into precalc and introductory French again at college, which to me would rather indicate a weakness of the high school course if the placement test necessitates repetition.

unfortunately that is the sad state of affairs in the public school world - many students in non-honors math classes do NOT achieve the mastery that they should for the topic and it snowballs through the years.

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unfortunately that is the sad state of affairs in the public school world - many students in non-honors math classes do NOT achieve the mastery that they should for the topic and it snowballs through the years.

 

Oh I know - but then the claim "college classes are not any harder than high school classes" should have a qualifier added "for students who have to repeat the same course because they did not learn the material well enough the first time". That may well be. College algebra/Trig would be the same whether covered in high school or in college - ideally, though, the student would take it only once. But for students who master their high school coursework, the coursework they take at college should be more challenging.

Edited by regentrude
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Regentrude,

 

In our state almost every homeschool class (total of 12) must be tested via AP or SAT 2 subject in order to be accepted at our state Us. High school is an extremely stressful course load that way and it takes a LOT of internal motivation over long long periods of time (usually an entire year for the course plus several months studying for the test.)

 

The only other option is private universities which would put my son 300k into debt.

 

Attending CC early (I'm thinking after 9th grade) would allow him to learn, and study and take tests in a more natural progression. A lot of people (ok all of them) that have taken this path found it worked out with little stress. Also he would in this case possibly graduate CC at 19 depending on whether he decided to finish his entire AS T in Math and apply as Tranfser or apply as a freshman and go sooner.

 

also, many kids are wanting to explore new worlds sooner than 17 or 18. That's a side benefit but one that should be noted.

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I do not doubt that and never claimed this would not be the case.

I do, however, not understand why you post this in response to my post in which I stated that your claim lower level college classes are just a repeat of high school is not generally correct. I fail to see what the fact that the students who took high school level classes at CC got admitted to universities has to do with that.

 

 

I kind of didn't understand why you replied the way you did to me, so we're even. :-) I inferred that somehow you thought students should do both high school and college because if they didn't they were losing out somehow. Perhaps I misunderstood. It is why I posted about those who did c.c. instead of high school and were accepted into those higher universities you mentioned.

 

It doesn't matter whether the high school classes and the c.c. classes are equal or not equal or anything else. If students can take c.c. classes instead of high school *plus* c.c., then I see no reason for them not to do that, because what I said before.

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In our state almost every homeschool class (total of 12) must be tested via AP or SAT 2 subject in order to be accepted at our state Us. High school is an extremely stressful course load that way and it takes a LOT of internal motivation over long long periods of time (usually an entire year for the course plus several months studying for the test.)

 

[...]

 

also, many kids are wanting to explore new worlds sooner than 17 or 18. That's a side benefit but one that should be noted.

 

I have been assuming all this while that you are in CA. Sorry about that!

 

I agree about wanting to explore new worlds. I haven't heard of any state uni requiring 12 classes to be tested (AP/ SAT subject) though. :huh:

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In our state almost every homeschool class (total of 12) must be tested via AP or SAT 2 subject in order to be accepted at our state Us.

 

In which state do state Us require 12 SAT2 or AP exams to validate homeschooling? Are these the CA a-g requirements?

Edited by regentrude
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I am not "skipping high school." But, I am only doing 9th grade full time. By 10th, he will be taking 25% through community college, junior years, 50% or more, depending on how sophomore year goes, and by senior year, completely at community college. At least that is the plan. I do not intend to do courses at home that he will do off at community college.

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Regentrude,

 

In our state almost every homeschool class (total of 12) must be tested via AP or SAT 2 subject in order to be accepted at our state Us. High school is an extremely stressful course load that way and it takes a LOT of internal motivation over long long periods of time (usually an entire year for the course plus several months studying for the test.)

 

The only other option is private universities which would put my son 300k into debt.

 

Attending CC early (I'm thinking after 9th grade) would allow him to learn, and study and take tests in a more natural progression. A lot of people (ok all of them) that have taken this path found it worked out with little stress. Also he would in this case possibly graduate CC at 19 depending on whether he decided to finish his entire AS T in Math and apply as Tranfser or apply as a freshman and go sooner.

 

also, many kids are wanting to explore new worlds sooner than 17 or 18. That's a side benefit but one that should be noted.

 

I thought NY was bad.  This is rather nuts.

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I am just wondering about the academics...it looks to me like the first two years in college, you repeat the stuff you learned in high school at greater depth, for the most part. Especially in Science. For example you take Biology in hs, then in college...you take CHemistry in high school then in college....

 

I had two years of algebra based physics in 9/10th grade, two years of calculus based physics in 11/12th grade, then four years of physics in engineering. The spiral is great for higher chance of getting As and not flunking out. However a weaker foundation and engineering physics becomes one of the infamous weeder courses.

 

Same goes for Calculus. All the strong foundation in high school was put to good use in engineering calculus.

 

Chemistry in high school was a useful foundation for environmental engineering in college. Those who did not take chemistry in high school had a hard time when taking the compulsory environmental chem course. The chemical engineering course has a harder chem course than my civil engineering course.

 

For programming/IT/robotics, the engineering classes were harder than those for computer science majors at my alma mater.

 

So it is hard to compare just looking at course titles.

 

CC courses will count for state U requirements in lieu of AP or SAT. Also only 10th and 11th count for GPA so dump those "harder for your kid to score" subjects in 9th.

Edited by Arcadia
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When I think of my just-turned 15 year old ds in a CC class with 19 year olds, I know he would shut down socially. He is very reserved in the tiny co-op classes he takes. How do your kids do socially at CC?

 

I looked at our CC's policy online regarding high school kids taking classes, and they limit them to 11th graders. Is this really not the case in most places?

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When I think of my just-turned 15 year old ds in a CC class with 19 year olds, I know he would shut down socially. He is very reserved in the tiny co-op classes he takes. How do your kids do socially at CC?

 

I looked at our CC's policy online regarding high school kids taking classes, and they limit them to 11th graders. Is this really not the case in most places?

DS13 might shut down with some 14-19yos too. But he likes older people.

 

Deleted the rest of my post for tmi.

Edited by quark
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When I think of my just-turned 15 year old ds in a CC class with 19 year olds, I know he would shut down socially. He is very reserved in the tiny co-op classes he takes. How do your kids do socially at CC?

 

I looked at our CC's policy online regarding high school kids taking classes, and they limit them to 11th graders. Is this really not the case in most places?

 

Mine started towards the end of 13..turned 14.  He had no trouble at all.

 

I suppose this would vary by the student like anything else.

 

What was weird is most classmates assumed he was not college age, but they thought he was older than he is.  He does not look older and he is on the small side.  Maybe it's the way he handled himself.  No clue.  I worried about the fact he looks younger, but nope that was not a problem. 

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I thought NY was bad.  This is rather nuts.

THere is another option.  THey may get really high scores on SATs and take 2 SAT subject tests in their area of interest and get high scores on those, which waives the requirement for the 12 tests.  

 

 

(Also if you don't want to take the 12 tests, taking a community college course will take the place of any one year of one subject.)

 

However there were two years when the Admission by Examination route disappeared before they reinstated it, so many people are a little leery about "depending" on that.  

 

There is also Admission by Exception which waives all of the above but if you're going for a popular or difficult major, at the better schools, you can totally forget about that.

Edited by Calming Tea
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I think the important point here is about being an informed consumer - knowing what you're buying with your tuition dollars - and being aware of how that fits into the student's long-term educational plan.  Just as rigor level varies across high school courses, it varies for any given college course across college tiers, within tiers and even differs between different community colleges.  A course that the average 16 y.o. high school student finds academically suitable is naturally on the weaker end of the continuum of college-level rigor.  Some may buy such a course as a replacement for a high school class, possibly even a strong high school class, depending, while others will buy that course for the purpose of college credit on the way to a degree; neither is wrong, but the purpose would need to fit the student's goals lest the student be short-changed.

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