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My 9yo is bawling because people we're staring at her...


soror

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I did explain the consequences to my daughter. I'm not explaining such things to my 6yo or 3yo because I think it is beyond ridiculous for people to make those assumptions at their age and I won't ruin their fun b/c people are asshats. My 9yo can choose whether or not it is worth it to her (in as far as it is acceptable to her father and I). Playing w/ make-up is no different than playing dress up to me. I did it when I was a kid and thought it was such fun.

 

You know I think it is sometimes good to just get the judgement out of the way. I told my one friend I think wearing yoga pants to hs meetings would be a good way to weed out people :)  If someone is going to judge me based on my looks then I already know we won't get along. My kids fwiw look like normal all American kids, although we don't wear a lot of branded stuff.

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I did explain the consequences to my daughter. I'm not explaining such things to my 6yo or 3yo because I think it is beyond ridiculous for people to make those assumptions at their age and I won't ruin their fun b/c people are asshats. My 9yo can choose whether or not it is worth it to her (in as far as it is acceptable to her father and I). Playing w/ make-up is no different than playing dress up to me. I did it when I was a kid and thought it was such fun.

 

You know I think it is sometimes good to just get the judgement out of the way. I told my one friend I think wearing yoga pants to hs meetings would be a good way to weed out people :)  If someone is going to judge me based on my looks then I already know we won't get along. My kids fwiw look like normal all American kids, although we don't wear a lot of branded stuff.

I think it's a great plan.  :D

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I *hate* the fact that short shorts on girls are now seen as "sexy." What the hell??? When I was a kid we all wore short shorts — we lived in tank tops, short shorts, and keds or flip-flops all summer long. With no access to a pool, we used to set up the lawn sprinkler and run through the water in our underwear when it was too hot to do anything else. When I was a kid, back in the dark ages, we used to wear "stretch pants" with stirrups, which fit a lot like leggings — no one thought 3rd or 4th graders were sexing it up in their stretch pants, girls even wore them to school.

 

What the heck is wrong with people that they would look at a little girl who was wearing short shorts, or playing with makeup, and think about sex???  This country has the most bizarre combination of puritanical attitudes towards human bodies and commercialized sexualization of practically everything. 

 

Soror, I'm so sorry your daughter was made to feel self-conscious by rude people staring at her. That really sucks.  :sad:

 

I wonder if they were thinking that though.  I mean, there are a few people who do think very odd things, but I suspect they just noticed the little girl in make-up.

 

It could conceivable be the case though that the short shorts thing has different conotations now.  The little kid styles seem to follow the adult styles, and the short shorts most recently popular for women seemed to be very intentionally about being sexy - many were hot pants or showed parts of the buttock.  My sense of the 70's style is a little fuzzier as I was relatively young, but it seems like everyone, men and women, were wearing short shorts.  I don't really mind short shorts - I quite dislike the Bermuda and walking types - but I don't really like it when kids clothes are trying to copy adult styles that are meant to be sexy.

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I did explain the consequences to my daughter. I'm not explaining such things to my 6yo or 3yo because I think it is beyond ridiculous for people to make those assumptions at their age and I won't ruin their fun b/c people are asshats. My 9yo can choose whether or not it is worth it to her (in as far as it is acceptable to her father and I). Playing w/ make-up is no different than playing dress up to me. I did it when I was a kid and thought it was such fun.

 

You know I think it is sometimes good to just get the judgement out of the way. I told my one friend I think wearing yoga pants to hs meetings would be a good way to weed out people :) If someone is going to judge me based on my looks then I already know we won't get along. My kids fwiw look like normal all American kids, although we don't wear a lot of branded stuff.

I do wonder why it's always cute when a boy wants to appear tough and macho - flexing his biceps or wearing sports gear, but when a girl wants to look like a grownup female - she is judged as looking sl@tty. Most adult women wear makeup. Why shouldn't a girl want to dress up look like a woman sometimes?

 

Is there something wrong with wanting to look like a woman? More so than a boy wanting to look like a man? Is it only okay if the woman she wants to play act is a mommy with a baby?

 

We have some unhealthy views of gender in our culture. But given those cultural images of what men are like and women are like, why is it so bad that a kid wants to play with those roles? I don't expect a seven year old girl to reject what she thinks would be fun about being a woman because it promoted sexism any more than I expect a boy to ponder whether the idea of biceps and competitiveness as defining masculinity is ultimately limiting for men. They are kids!

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I used to have an attitude about make-up and was (still am) way too shy to wear it.  But somehow I got a kid who has been fascinated by cosmetics since age 4 or maybe younger.  Given that she has that as part of her personality, I *don't* want her to view make-up etc. as something "bad" or low-class.  I want her to see her *talent* as one worth pursuing.  Don't we all know some strong women who come across as kick-a$$ because they have crafted a strong physical image to enhance their other talents?  Is it really better to be like me, fading into the woodwork?  I think not.  I mean, if blah is who we are, that's fine, we have lots of company, but it doesn't make us better than others.

 

I know some people will think that way, but that doesn't make them right.  Focusing on looks more than heart / mind is just as bad whether it's done by primper or a judger.  And it's just one item on the list of silly things people look down upon to make themselves feel better.

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I don't really like it when kids clothes are trying to copy adult styles that are meant to be sexy.

 

I agree. I wore shortie shorts when I was little. They were running-style shorts, the kind that had piping around they edges, and sometimes they were terrycloth. They were lose and short.

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If make up wearing is the same as playing dressing up....

 

Consider she was wearing a dress up costume in public, she would probably get second looks.  It happened all the time when my boys were Batman everywhere they went until age 4.  The looks may not be judgmental.  It just catches attention.  Wearing makeup in public at young ages catches attention.  Not a problem if it's worth it to her.

 

So sorry she felt self conscious.  My girls are adventurous with clothing.  My 11 year old wants to be a fashion designer.  She puts together some interesting outfits.:)  They are not short shorts or low cut or too tight, but she gets lots of looks. She says normal people don't understand fashion. LOL

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when a girl wants to look like a grownup female - she is judged as looking [email protected]<script data-cfhash='f9e31' type="text/javascript">/* */</script> 

 

I think it depends on what type of adult women's clothing the girl is emulating. I am not a fan of the ultra-tight, show-everything clothing that some women wear these days, and I don't like it any more on little girls.

 

I have a hard time understanding how, if a woman wears clothing that's designed to emphasize and draw attention the the breasts and buttocks, this is not seen as sexualized. (I'm not talking about wearing things that allow you to see that a woman has breasts and buttocks; when I wear a regular boxy t-shirt, you can see I have breasts. I'm talking about the clingy-tight, plunging neckline shirts that not only show that a woman has breasts, but also show a good deal of the breasts.)

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I agree. I wore shortie shorts when I was little. They were running-style shorts, the kind that had piping around they edges, and sometimes they were terrycloth. They were lose and short.

Ah, yes.  I remember the terry cloth Daisy Dukes.  Good times.  Back then , though I do think kids' clothes LOOKED like kids' clothes, not miniature adult clothes.  I also wore lots of strapless tube tops or "belly shirts".  My mom was very conservative, too.  Times have changed.

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I do wonder why it's always cute when a boy wants to appear tough and macho - flexing his biceps or wearing sports gear, but when a girl wants to look like a grownup female - she is judged as looking [email protected]<script data-cfhash='f9e31' type="text/javascript">/* */</script> Most adult women wear makeup. Why shouldn't a girl want to dress up look like a woman sometimes?

 

Is there something wrong with wanting to look like a woman? More so than a boy wanting to look like a man? Is it only okay if the woman she wants to play act is a mommy with a baby?

 

We have some unhealthy views of gender in our culture. But given those cultural images of what men are like and women are like, why is it so bad that a kid wants to play with those roles? I don't expect a seven year old girl to reject what she thinks would be fun about being a woman because it promoted sexism any more than I expect a boy to ponder whether the idea of biceps and competitiveness as defining masculinity is ultimately limiting for men. They are kids!

 

It is funny, but my sense is that it is related to sexualizing adult women in a way that typically doesn't happen to adult men, and people's reaction to that.

 

In the online mom's group I belong to, which leans fairly crunchy, the moms are often very concerned about their daughters playing with princess stuff (too girly and pink) and Barbie (also too girly, interested in make-up, and pink.) 

 

Often, they suggest alternates to Barbie that are similar style dolls that look like kids.

 

It always strikes me, first of all, that a big part of the appeal of Barbie is that she is an adult - the kids are playing at living an adult life, so a 9 year old doll won't be the same.  And second, in not letting their kids have any pink girly princess stuff, they are creating a pretty clear message about the value of the traditionally feminine.

 

At the same time though, I don't think their concern about female sexualization is wrong, and they want their girls to think they can still be feminine and wear green, or be plumbers.  It's just not always well thought out - particularly how there can be any cultural expression of the feminine without some kind of cultural encoding of what that is.  (To me, much better to make something totally unimportant, like a colour or clothing style, a cultural expression of gender, rather than something more substantial like career choices.)

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I like shirts with low necklines because I feel like I'm being choked with anything too close to my neck.  Although I don't have much in the cleavage dept so nothing is hanging out either.  Must be challenging if one has larger breasts and they happen to also like low necklines.

 

But really I don't think twice about any of what people are wearing. 

 

Although I am baffled by the concept of high healed shoes.  They are so painful. 

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I think it depends on what type of adult women's clothing the girl is emulating. I am not a fan of the ultra-tight, show-everything clothing that some women wear these days, and I don't like it any more on little girls.

 

I have a hard time understanding how, if a woman wears clothing that's designed to emphasize and draw attention the the breasts and buttocks, this is not seen as sexualized. (I'm not talking about wearing things that allow you to see that a woman has breasts and buttocks; when I wear a regular boxy t-shirt, you can see I have breasts. I'm talking about the clingy-tight, plunging neckline shirts that not only show that a woman has breasts, but also show a good deal of the breasts.)

 

I think intent plays a role.  If you go live in the jungle, the people living there might show everything, but it isn't meant to be sexual - nor is going topless at some European beaches.  It might even have the opposite effect.  What is conventionally designated as private and sexual is very culturally dependent and sometimes arbitrary, or based on very practical considerations.  Wearing a lot of clothes in a jungle has real cons.  Going nude in Scotland, similarly.

 

But showing off something that is culturally is normally covered up for reasons of modesty is generally a way of drawing special attention to those characteristics, and the reason that they are conventionally covered.

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I saw a version of the staring this weekend. Dd had changed out of her rodeo clothes (wearing long sleeves, chaps, hat, and jeans are not practical if it's 90+ degrees and you're not on a horse) but of course still had her arena makeup on (there was no running water). It's basically stage makeup, or the girls just wash out in the middle of the dusty arena. But, it's pretty over the top when you're walking in the grocery store. She got some second looks and she hadn't even curled her hair into the queen wings thing as they loaded horses at 0330!

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Must be challenging if one has larger breasts and they happen to also like low necklines.

 

 

Nothing challenging at all. I have huge breasts and also feel choked in anything but a low neckline. Also I look boxier in necklines that aren't v-neck. I don't wear them to sexualize myself. I wear them because they are comfortable and they work with my figure better. If other people think I'm wearing them to show off my breasts that is their problem not mine. If people want to look then by all means looks, but don't expect not to get call out by your rude behavior by me if I notice!

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Nothing challenging at all. I have huge breasts and also feel choked in anything but a low neckline. 

 

I do think there is a difference between a low neckline and the plunging neckline I have referenced. Even I have been known to wear shirts with v-necks or scoop necks, and you can, in fact, see some cleavage in those.

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of this. Personally, I don't find this appropriate or necessary not to feel choked. I found it even less appropriate when teenage girls tried to wear similar things to my dd's high school.

 

If you routinely dress like this, then my apologies for appearing judgmental and overly conservative. We all have our own tastes.

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Ah, yes. I remember the terry cloth Daisy Dukes. Good times. Back then , though I do think kids' clothes LOOKED like kids' clothes, not miniature adult clothes. I also wore lots of strapless tube tops or "belly shirts". My mom was very conservative, too. Times have changed.

Boys' clothes have always looked like miniature adult clothes. It's only 'wrong' for girls.

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Boys' clothes have always looked like miniature adult clothes. It's only 'wrong' for girls.

I suppose.  I didn't really pay attention to what boys were wearing when I was younger.  All I know is when my oldest was born I realized how BORING little boys' clothes were!  Sports themed. ugh. Or just plain.  My mom said garanimals were super popular for boys when I was little.  She was SO happy to get a girl.:)  

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Boys' clothes have always looked like miniature adult clothes. It's only 'wrong' for girls.

 

I don't think it's that simple.  It did used to be the case that for the poorer people everywhere, boys and girls dressed like adults, and adults pretty much all dressed the same, and styles changed very slowly.  The clothing was what was cheap to make, could be made with low technology, and was practical for working.

 

For wealthier people, small kids did tend to dress like adults, but not, typically, the more risque styles, which have overall been more for women than men.

 

But relativly recently, boys clothes have differed from men's - boys for example didn't get to wear long pants until they were older, and both boys and girls tended to transfer to more mature styles after about ten or so.

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My girls are currently putting on a fashion show, dressed up w/ make-up and all (and lots of glitter).

 

 

I do think there is a difference between a low neckline and the plunging neckline I have referenced. Even I have been known to wear shirts with v-necks or scoop necks, and you can, in fact, see some cleavage in those.

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of this. Personally, I don't find this appropriate or necessary not to feel choked. I found it even less appropriate when teenage girls tried to wear similar things to my dd's high school.

 

If you routinely dress like this, then my apologies for appearing judgmental and overly conservative. We all have our own tastes.

Ha, that is just like my favorite top :)

 

I prefer v-necks too. Although as I get older I prefer my tops not be very low at all (I don't want to have to worry about anything being exposed), boat necks are good, really anything other than a typical tshirt top that comes up on my neck.

 

Dance shorts and yoga pants are just running shorts of today. The plus of tight workout clothes is they don't expose the underwear or private parts. I started wearing yoga pants for yoga and then when I started Silks form fitting clothes are required, otherwise it gets in the way. My favorite workout top is actually a size too small b/c when you are upside down you want it tight or stuff falls out (as I realized when my husband took pics of me hanging upside down on the trapeeze). So if I'm coming or going to a class you'll catch me in skin tight workout wear. 

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I do think there is a difference between a low neckline and the plunging neckline I have referenced. Even I have been known to wear shirts with v-necks or scoop necks, and you can, in fact, see some cleavage in those.

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of this. Personally, I don't find this appropriate or necessary not to feel choked. I found it even less appropriate when teenage girls tried to wear similar things to my dd's high school.

 

If you routinely dress like this, then my apologies for appearing judgmental and overly conservative. We all have our own tastes.

 

Oh my...nobody would want to see me in that.  LOL

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boys' clothes are boring....

 

According to my dd, boys' cloths are functional and comfortable, and girls' clothes are impractical and uncomfortable. I have to say that I agree with her. With the exception of Land's End clothing, of which the girls' clothing isn't really her style, and probably some of the outdoor outfitters like LL Bean, when I go shopping the boys' clothing is simple and better-made and the girls' clothing is spangly and frilly and made from uncomfortable fabrics. It also tends to look cheap.

 

When I shopped at Target, the girls' shirts would be this thin, cheap, sorta-see-through material, but the boys' shirts would be regular cotton. The girls' shorts would be skimpy and cheap, but the boys' shorts would be heavier, more rugged cotton.

 

Don't even ask dd about the difference between boys' and girls' shoes. Until she started wearing women's size, dd got all her shoes from the boys' department. She wears boys' swim trunks and a rash guard.

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According to my dd, boys' cloths are functional and comfortable, and girls' clothes are impractical and uncomfortable. I have to say that I agree with her. With the exception of Land's End clothing, of which the girls' clothing isn't really her style, and probably some of the outdoor outfitters like LL Bean, when I go shopping the boys' clothing is simple and better-made and the girls' clothing is spangly and frilly and made from uncomfortable fabrics. It also tends to look cheap.

 

When I shopped at Target, the girls' shirts would be this thin, cheap, sorta-see-through material, but the boys' shirts would be regular cotton. The girls' shorts would be skimpy and cheap, but the boys' shorts would be heavier, more rugged cotton.

 

Don't even ask dd about the difference between boys' and girls' shoes. Until she started wearing women's size, dd got all her shoes from the boys' department. She wears boys' swim trunks and a rash guard.

 

 

Oh I do agree with that.  I used to like buying my boys clothes when they were very little because they had such cute stuff.  Now it's just t-shirts and jeans.  Which is basically what I tend to wear myself. 

 

Stuff like skirts and dresses aren't all that functional.  High heals are devices of torture. 

 

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I think it depends on what type of adult women's clothing the girl is emulating. I am not a fan of the ultra-tight, show-everything clothing that some women wear these days, and I don't like it any more on little girls.

 

I have a hard time understanding how, if a woman wears clothing that's designed to emphasize and draw attention the the breasts and buttocks, this is not seen as sexualized. (I'm not talking about wearing things that allow you to see that a woman has breasts and buttocks; when I wear a regular boxy t-shirt, you can see I have breasts. I'm talking about the clingy-tight, plunging neckline shirts that not only show that a woman has breasts, but also show a good deal of the breasts.)

 

Well, I tend to think so much is sexual in a way that we are not even aware of.  Or maybe "sexual" isn't the right word, but so much of what we do is about appearing a certain way, much of which is about being competent in a gender role and drawing the admiration of the opposite sex and, to some extent, the same sex.

 

Men wear suits.  Men might wear "power suits."  Power ... money... these are about sex on some level, not exclusively, but partly.  Men don't wear "muscle shirts" (or business suits) because they want to have sex that day with someone who sees them on the street.  They are just living their lives.  Women don't wear makeup or heels because they are on the prowl.  I'm not talking about really high heels, which are and impediment, for most of us, to living daily lives. 

 

Some men dress in a way that shows off their biceps.  I mean, sometimes those muscles are LITERALLY hanging out of a man's shirt so that everyone can see them.  Muscles are about strength.  Power. Very sexually appealing.  They are also very useful and make one competent for tasks that are not about sex.  Men show them off, boys want them and want to show them off.  It's very cute.

 

Women have breasts and hips (and also muscles, of course).  Some women choose clothes that put their breasts on display.  Breasts are very sexy.  They are also pretty darn useful.   If a girl pretends to have breasts  or displays what she does have, it's not seen as cute at all.  It's seen as slutty.  

 

Breasts identify a female as a female, much like muscles do for a man.  But we are comfortable with a boy wanting to be muscle bound, masculine man.  We are okay with a girl wanting to be a Mommy, but get uncomfortable if she wants to pretend to nurse.   And we are not comfortable with her wanting to pretend to be women by stuffing her shirts or swinging her hips.  But to me, at heart, boys and girls are doing the same thing - play acting with what feels very "adult" for their gender.  And I think this says a lot about how we see women and how we see men.  

 

Much of what children and adults wear is very much the same.  Both wear jeans, t-shirts, khakis, polos, sundresses, raincoats, etc.  There are few clothes that adult men wear but boys don't.  Even boys find themselves obliged to wear suits to weddings.  Mostly the clothes I can think of that men wear but boys don't (except for play) are professional clothes - police uniforms, army fatigues, lab coats.  And when I was a kid, boys spent a lot of time playing "Army" or "Police Officer."  

 

What do women wear that girls almost never wear except in play?  Professional clothes as above, of course.  Nursing bras and maternity clothes.  Also heels, handbags, elegant dresses, makeup.  II don't know many girls who want to feel adult by wearing nursing bras.   I know lots that enjoy playing dress up with Mommy's heels and makeup.  And they aren't thinking about how sexy they want to look.  They want to feel how it feels to be a woman, and not in the aching breasts, tired feet, anxiety about bills kind of way.  It would be nice if girls could associate being a woman with being brave, professional, strong, adventuresome.  And I am sure most parents want to cultivate that in their girls.  But it doesn't surprise me at all that girls might like bumping hips and trying on Mom's makeup and heels.  And I don't see why adults can't look at that indulgently and recognize the sweetness and innocence of it.

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Oh I do agree with that.  I used to like buying my boys clothes when they were very little because they had such cute stuff.  Now it's just t-shirts and jeans.  Which is basically what I tend to wear myself. 

 

Stuff like skirts and dresses aren't all that functional.  High heals are devices of torture. 

 

Oh, I love skirts, especially in the summer.  Even for things like gardening.  So much less clingy and hot than shorts.  You have to get a fabric that will stand up to work, though.

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yes but then there is sweaty rubbing of thighs...I hate that

I saw a very cute hiking skirt when I was shopping for sports bras last week. Put it on, looked adorable in it, walked a few steps and said "forget it!" The prospect of sweaty chafing is unappealing.

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t sounds like your daughter is great with makeup. You can ask her to do your makeup. I think she would like that. Then if someone compliments you, give them her business card. Maybe she can start a business.

Great idea, she would love that :0

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yes but then there is sweaty rubbing of thighs...I hate that

A generous layer of antiperspirant fixes that problem completely. It's part of my daily hygiene in the summer: it feels just as normal as putting it under my arms, and I forget that not everyone does it.
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I bought my daughter the cutest shorts last month - from the boys' department.  :P  When I was younger, I bought boys' jeans and boys' shoes because they fit better.  In those days they didn't have any women's clothes for apple-shaped women who were not "plus sized."

 

I miss Levi's 501 button-fly blues.  They were the best ever for my bod.  Nothing to do with this thread, I know.  :P

 

****

 

As for the sub-topic of kids dressing like grown-ups ... the issue isn't that girls are trying to look like women.  The issue is when they look like women who are trying too hard to look like something they aren't.

 

Most women go about their day dressed rather conservatively and/or not in ways that stand out.

 

Last year I needed to buy my kids (then 8yo) something they could wear to a tax conference and then could use for church through the year.  I found some suits in their size.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Alexandra-Pleated-Skirt-Suit-Size/dp/B00K5WC6Q4/ref=sr_1_3?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1466537040&sr=1-3&nodeID=1040664&keywords=girl+suits+skirt+blouse+size+10

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Alexandra-Girls-Skirt-Suit-Size/dp/B00K5ZYL3W/ref=pd_sim_193_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=516fbo8k3qL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL400_SR308%2C400_&refRID=3H254JFVCB644J8NRY6Y

 

While some people might not prefer this look for young girls, I doubt anyone really cares or judges if they see someone else's kids dressed this way.  It's not that much different from a boy wearing a suit fashioned after a men's suit.

 

There aren't any boy comparisons for the "other kind" of "trying to look older."  Let's use strippers for an example.  Google "female stripper outfit" and then google "male stripper outfit."  There's a whole massive industry making clothes that turn women into sexualized objects, not so much for men.  Why?  Ask a sociologist.  But there's no point living in denial.  I'm not going to let my kid dress like a stripper just to make a statement about sexism.  :)

 

(Not saying the OP's kid was dressing like a stripper, LOL)

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As for the sub-topic of kids dressing like grown-ups ... the issue isn't that girls are trying to look like women.  The issue is when they look like women who are trying too hard to look like something they aren't.

 

Exactly. The issue isn't with young girls trying to look like adult women. I'm an adult woman. Any little girl who dressed like me would look like a regular person. It's young girls who try to look like those who dress sexually for attention (singers, actresses, big sisters who want their boobs to attract your attention) that I take issue with.

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Funny thing, my kid tonight was watching a make-up tutorial on YouTube.  The kid giving the tutorial was about 9 also.  :)

 

And here's proof of my true bravery - I let my 9yo cut my hair last night.  And, she didn't do half bad.  :)

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Funny thing, my kid tonight was watching a make-up tutorial on YouTube.  The kid giving the tutorial was about 9 also.  :)

 

And here's proof of my true bravery - I let my 9yo cut my hair last night.  And, she didn't do half bad.  :)

That is bravery!

 

My girls latest project is making their own blush or bronzer or something, it is with cocoa or cinnamon- I have 3 blonde headed girls. It is quite an interesting look!

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That is bravery!

 

My girls latest project is making their own blush or bronzer or something, it is with cocoa or cinnamon- I have 3 blonde headed girls. It is quite an interesting look!

I'm sure they smell fantastic!
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