Christian Worldview when you are not a Christian?

[Janeway]

I am wondering about this. 

 

My teenager wants to take this Christian Worldviews class with someone he likes. He has some friends taking it. It is a group of kids he likes and the teacher. I am fine with him learning Christian Worldviews, or Jewish Worldviews, or Ba hai worldview, or Buddhist...and so on. In fact, we attend some events with our Hindu friends and our Jewish friends. And now we are supposed to be doing something with the Bah-hai group where they will learn about that religion. So this is all great and fine.

 

One thing I have been clear about though is, in all the events were attend that are non-Christian, they are events that Christians are welcome at and are not told how bad their religion in. No "religious supremacy" is taught. When we went to a few things with some Catholic relatives, the "if you are not Catholic you are going to Hell" was laid on so thick that we do not attend those things anymore. So far, we have had no issues within the protestant community, not even with the Mormon community. So, our children have a pretty diverse life. 

 

I have the book now for the Christian Worldviews class. It looks ok. It looks like it could be taught in any direction. I know this teacher never teaches straight from the book and really brings a lot of herself to the classes she teaches. I like the teacher too. The book, however, does link everything to the bible, specifically, and how we do things or should do things a certain way because the bible says so. Someone who is teaching the class could interpret what is says to be just that..we do this because the bible says so, or they could further explain and go over, during the discussions, that we do this because it is right and it is also backed up by the bible. 

 

I am a little torn. I do not want him to spend the year being taught that if you are not a Christian, you cannot be moral. I do not know how to even phrase this asking how she intends to present this. I do not want to offend her at all. So I do not think it would be appropriate to ask. As far as my own belief system, I do believe in God and a creator. But I only think Jesus was a prophet of sorts who spread good messages. And even if he were the son of God, I do not think he actually was God himself. And I do not think God micromanages our lives, making things good or bad. I think things just happen. I do not pray. I do not believe in prayer. I do believe in Heaven, Hell, and most definitely believe in reincarnation.  I do not believe in a "bigger plan" or that "everything happens for a reason."

 

What do you think? Should I not send him to the class? Or should I let him go and figure he will learn a lot of good stuff about one particular religion? There is not a whole lot I disagree with in Christianity, but there are a few things from some denominations (mostly southern) that I do disagree with.

[DawnM]

My children have taken a Christian Worldview class and it was definitely Christian in all ways.  I haven't seen a class that is labeled Christian Worldview that isn't expressly Christian, teaching Christian beliefs and that Christianity is right and all others are not.

 

You may want to find out.  If the teacher is honest, she will tell you exactly how she will teach it.  

 

The heart and soul of Christianity is that Jesus was God, sent to earth, and in his earthly life was both God and man, who came to dwell among us, die on the cross for our sins, and rose again to glorify the father and bring salvation to human kind.   I say this only because you made a comment about not disagreeing with most of Christianity, but that is the main part and I don't think you agree with it.  

 

I would say this may not be a good idea.

 

PS:  Not sure what Christians from the South have to do with it.  I am not from the South, didn't grow up in the South, but I still hold very conservative Christian beliefs.

Edited June 16, 2016 by DawnM

[Faithr]

Hmm.  As  a Catholic I've only ever heard of Christian Worldview courses in the Protestant sense. And the homeschool groups around here often have you sign a statement that says you comply with their understanding of Christianity (sola scriptura) even in order to join.

 

Here's a (rather long) explanation of what is meant by 'no salvation outside the church' which doesn't align with what your Catholic relatives say.  The Catechism teaches that we can not know who is saved and who isn't.  So your Catholic relatives are a bit ignorant of their own faith.  

 

I would not though do a Christian Worldview course for an anthropological exposure to different faiths.  For one thing Christian Worldview courses are supposed to be formative - that is formation of character, so it really doesn't jive with your purposes.  I'd go for just a survey study of different religions.  

 

My 2 cents.

 

 

 

 

[hornblower]

No, I would not send my child to a class like this. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Nope, I would not.

 

 

[Azalea]

Definite no.

[Bluegoat]

I think that with any class you take, there is a risk that it will be poorly taught, and if that is the case, you are within your rights to withdraw.

 

Many religions have some kind of thought or explanation about people who are not part of the religion.  It may be more of an aside, or more important, it will tend to depend on the structure and history of the group.  And I think you would expect that kind of thing could very legitimately be part of such a course.  You could not very easily learn about the worldview of Calvinism - which is a pretty prominent form of Protestantism - without learning about the elect and the reprobate.

 

But really in any form of Christian worldview, you could easily get questions about what happens to non-believers or non-members, it is just such an obvious question to kids.

 

So I guess part of the question is, how do you feel about that?

 

But you can also get things taught in a clumsy or even just incorrect way.  From what you've said, the Catholic stuff you hear was like that - the Catholic Church just doesn't teach that, it's not even just a shallow explanation of their teaching, its rather twisted.  If a class was teaching something like that, I would assume it was equally poor on other issues and a waste of time.  But it would be reasonable for a Catholic class to talk about the nature of the Church, which would include what it means to be outside the Church.

[Bluegoat]

As far as the utility of the class - comparative religion classes have a place, but often they aren't great at theology - sometimes the best bet to learn about that might really be something like a Christian worldview class.  Thought systems have to be learned from the inside, and good teachers always teach them that way, but good teachers can sometimes be difficult to find.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I find the way the non dominant religions are explored/taught treat them almost as quaint.  Awww look at us, we are being so open minded and respectful because we are talking about those cute Hindu rituals.  When it's the dominant religion, it is often a totally different ball game.  This is serious business.  We are the one true faith. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

In a way it's almost ridiculous to have a class about the Christian worldview since it is the dominant religion.  An entire class on this?  As comparative, fine, but a focus?  Not unless the point is to promote the religion or teach the details to those already following (which of course is fine).  This would be right up there in my mind with having a class called "White Studies" where we study the history, culture, etc. of white people as a contrast to black people and most of the people signing up are white.  What's that going to be like for a black person signing up?  Weird and uncomfortable and a WTH because the culture of white people is already the default in a lot of places in the US. 

 

This is not to say that is the intention at all.  The intention could be very innocent. 

[Bluegoat]

As far as I'm understand it, classes on Christian worldview like that are generally mant for Christians, not as general information courses.  And they are really very specific to demoninational views as well, they don't cover Christian worldviews as a whole.

 

That being said, I would not say that the fact that Christianity has dominated in the west means people naturally know what constitutes a Christian worldview just because they are part of the culture.  A worldview is a more or less consistent or cohesive systematic way of thinking about things, and a class on that would I think want to bring that out in a conscious way.  An unconscious worldview can be a real liability.  And western culture is really quite mixed up, I don't think it is entirely accurate to call it post-Christian but there are certainly post-Christian elements, and there are competing worldviews within Christianity, and historical development too.

 

I mean, we almost all here live in the west, but we are on a classical education board, and classical education is largely about having a cohesive and historical understanding of our own worldview.

[Heatherwith4]

I'm a Christian, and I wouldn't send my kids to a class like that. I'm weird, though.

[momacacia]

I would find out from the teacher. Your speaking with them and questioning might help the teacher clarify the goals of the class as well as give you a better idea of what it will really be like.

[Katy]

Meh, I'd have some general awareness of the denomination first (I wouldn't send a particularly susceptible child to a denomination that's more cult-like, for example), but I'd allow.  Particularly if this is more of a sociology or political class than a religious one.  Probably because I explored all kinds of religions as a teenager.  I would be cautious of certain denominations that teach that you're not allowed to question anything, or that if you go to a different denomination you're going to hell though.  Can you post the context of this class?  Denomination?  Class description?

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, i would be wanting to know the group, even the parish, if I were to consider that.  Some can be manipulative of kids, and even adults.  Sometimes without intending to.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm a Christian, and I wouldn't send my kids to a class like that. I'm weird, though.

 

Same here, except I don't think it's weird. :)

 

I've found most "worldview" stuff to be biased, politically motivated, and extremely US-centric. My idea of Christianity (based on the teachings of Jesus Christ) is that it is global, ancient, and very flexible culturally. Flexibility and generosity are not the point of worldview programs; conformity is the point.

 

Worldview classes are a locker room pep talk for people who are in agreement about the meaning of the game and unanimously in favor of the strategies to be employed.

 

(Edited - what do I mean by 'the meaning of the game?" Many Protestant worldview books and homeschool materials are dominionist. That's not the belief of all Christians.)

Edited June 16, 2016 by Tibbie Dunbar

[redsquirrel]

well, at first I was thinking it was like the class my son took at our UU church. It was about christianity and it's world view, but was based in history. It traced the history of the church, it's splits and schisms, looked at different denominations and how they were the same and different from each other, looked at the biographies of the different popes and what changes they made, looked at different historical protestant leaders and their life stories etc, etc. Lots of reading of history and reading from different documents etc.  Then they finished the year by visiting different churches they had studied and attending a service. They also brought in speakers from these churches when possible and that person would be asked questions (grilled by a bunch of 14 year old Unitarians, lol) In other years they also studied Judiasim, Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, etc etc.

 

I am sure you get the general idea. My son has a pretty good idea of what different religions believe and why they believe it.  

 

But, at no time was the bible presented as a document with any authority.

 

The class you are describing doesn't sound like it is an academic study of the "Christian worldview" in all it's never ending variety. I wouldn't allow my kids to participate.

[TracyP]

My beliefs are almost identical to yours, OP. I have my oldest in a confirmation class this year, so I suppose it is safe to say I wouldn't have a problem with it. I was leery but ultimately left the decision up to her. She has loved the class - mostly for the social aspect - and I have been impressed with the thoughtful conversations we have had. It has opened up a lot of doors for me to explain what I believe and why.

 

I will also note that even though the pastor teaches things that I disagree with, it hasn't swayed my dd at all. Honestly, it isn't that hard to debunk the crap that gets taught sometimes. Ultimately, she doesn't align completely with me or the pastor. She is making up her own mind, which is exactly what I want for her.

 

I think it could be a fun class, but it definitely depends on your goals, your child, and your comfort level with combating misinformation.

[hornblower]

It doesn't sound like it's a class *about* the Christian worldview, as one would experience in courses about comparative religion. 

It sounds like it's about how to view the world through the narrow lens of a very specific interpretation of the bible. Unless you're ok with your child being converted, I don't see how this would be a good thing. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by hornblower

[Bluegoat]

well, at first I was thinking it was like the class my son took at our UU church. It was about christianity and it's world view, but was based in history. It traced the history of the church, it's splits and schisms, looked at different denominations and how they were the same and different from each other, looked at the biographies of the different popes and what changes they made, looked at different historical protestant leaders and their life stories etc, etc. Lots of reading of history and reading from different documents etc.  Then they finished the year by visiting different churches they had studied and attending a service. They also brought in speakers from these churches when possible and that person would be asked questions (grilled by a bunch of 14 year old Unitarians, lol) In other years they also studied Judiasim, Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, etc etc.

 

I am sure you get the general idea. My son has a pretty good idea of what different religions believe and why they believe it.  

 

But, at no time was the bible presented as a document with any authority.

 

The class you are describing doesn't sound like it is an academic study of the "Christian worldview" in all it's never ending variety. I wouldn't allow my kids to participate.

 

You can also teach a class like this within a particular religious tradition.  So, a Lutheran version would probably cover most of Christian history, but it would tend to take it from a Lutheran perspective, and also focus on things that were particularly important to Lutheranism. 

 

If it was well done, a class like that could be really useful for anyone, even if they were not Lutheran.  The failing I think of a more narrowly historical or sociological approach is that they don't consider anything there authoritative, so the exploration of that authority just doesn't really get addressed much, but it can often be a really important part of the worldview.  And it can be easier to assume something is just illogical or accidentally associated, rather than having some kind of more fundamental connection to the thought system.

[TheReader]

If this is the class I'm thinking of (a series, starting with Starting Points, and followed with Christian Worldview I, II, and III), then I can emphatically say this is not a class you will enjoy for your son.

 

My son just finished the Starting Points course, and while that is probably the most heavily Bible based of the 4, the basic intent of the course is to read all history and all literature and all everything through the lens of "does this author have a Christian worldview, or not?" and "is this historical attitude Biblically sound, or was this based on unBiblical teachings, ideas, etc?"

 

It is very heavy-handed on having the kids sort out how what they read either does, or does not, line up with a Biblical worldview. By that, I mean they examine the author's view of Man, God, Universe/Nature, and a few other things. They examine the big thoughts behind historical events to determine the same thing.

 

We are Protestant Christians, but I found the course to be very conservative Christian, way too conservative for us. Or rather...I found the focus to be a lot narrower than I expected and a lot narrower than I prefer for my family.

 

If it ISN'T this course, then obviously this is irrelevant. But just in case, thought a thorough review could help.

[justasque]

I am wondering about this. 

 

My teenager wants to take this Christian Worldviews class with someone he likes. He has some friends taking it. It is a group of kids he likes and the teacher....

 

One thing I have been clear about though is, in all the events were attend that are non-Christian, they are events that Christians are welcome at and are not told how bad their religion in. No "religious supremacy" is taught. When we went to a few things with some Catholic relatives, the "if you are not Catholic you are going to Hell" was laid on so thick that we do not attend those things anymore. So far, we have had no issues within the protestant community, not even with the Mormon community. So, our children have a pretty diverse life. 

 

I have the book now for the Christian Worldviews class. It looks ok. It looks like it could be taught in any direction. I know this teacher never teaches straight from the book and really brings a lot of herself to the classes she teaches. I like the teacher too. The book, however, does link everything to the bible, specifically, and how we do things or should do things a certain way because the bible says so. Someone who is teaching the class could interpret what is says to be just that..we do this because the bible says so, or they could further explain and go over, during the discussions, that we do this because it is right and it is also backed up by the bible. 

 

...

 

 

I think the whole point of a Christian Worldview class is "how we do things or should do things a certain way because the Bible says so" (as you described the text).  I would not expect the teacher to back off from that.  Rather, I would expect that an approach of "we do this because it is right" (independent of the Bible) to be quite the opposite of what a Christian Worldview class would be expected to teach.  

 

You might find this article and this article helpful in understanding the concept of and implications of a specifically Christian worldview.

 

If you want to discuss the class with the teacher, it would be wise to consider such questions as whether the students are taught that a particular interpretation of the Bible, or a particular implication of a Biblical teaching, is, for lack of a better term, "the only right answer", or whether the class will be encouraged to challenge and debate the material presented in the text and answer in accordance with their own beliefs.  Evolution, for example, might be presented with several interpretations of the Bible given, with the students then writing an essay as to their views (Creation, theological evolution, secular evolution), giving evidence to back up those views and being graded on the strength of their paper regardless of the position they take.  Or the class might teach that Creation is the clear Biblical view, and therefore the right one, period, no debate, no dissenting views accepted.  The teacher's answer to such questions should be helpful in determining whether the class will be a good fit for your child.

 

 

[Guest]

I have attended one worldview class that was taught by a Christian but I think was very fair to all, not at all disparaging or fearful, and not evangelistic.  If you want to PM me the name of the teacher of your class, I can tell you if this is the one I liked.  Other than this one, I haven't been too happy with the things I have seen taught as "worldview"--they have been more "apologetics" oriented.  Bleah.  

[MotherGoose]

"One thing I have been clear about though is, in all the events were attend that are non-Christian, they are events that Christians are welcome at and are not told how bad their religion in. No "religious supremacy" is taught. When we went to a few things with some Catholic relatives, the "if you are not Catholic you are going to Hell" was laid on so thick that we do not attend those things anymore. So far, we have had no issues within the protestant community, not even with the Mormon community. So, our children have a pretty diverse life. ". From OP. I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you experienced that. I'm a new convert to Catholicism from Protestant, and everyone was very welcoming and accepting of us, even before we joined RCIA, and the Priest always refers to other Christians as "our brothers and sisters in Christ." I do think the official Catholic position is that Protestants are saved too, they just miss some of the richness of the Catholic faith. Perhaps our Priest emphasizes the unity with Protestants because Catholics are only about 4% of the population of our state, in a place where many many people attend church and there are churches literally on nearly every corner.

[elegantlion]

No, I would steer my child away from that class. 

[Daria]

I just want to add, that while this class might claim to teach "the Christian Worldview", it almost certainly teachers a worldview held by a subset of protestants.  

 

I can not imagine, for example, that there are "Quaker Worldview" classes, or "Episcopal Worldview" classes.  The more liberal denominations, whose members are just as Christian as conservative Christians, have very different beliefs than what are probably taught in this class.  So, even if you decide to enroll your child, I would make sure that he understands that he is learning about one slice of Christianity.

 

I would then ask whether a year long study of one slice of one religion makes sense.  

 

Edited to remove extraneous letters.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Daria

[J-rap]

I'm a Christian, and would probably not send my child to that class.  I tend to have problems with curriculum that is called "Christian Worldview."

[Carol in Cal.]

About the Bible aspect of your class--it sounds to me like the class is teaching that the Bible is a direct revelation from God, and that it is authoritative as a source of moral teaching because of that.  That's a fairly common Christian belief, though not a fully universal one, and it is in contrast to a pretty common relativistic individual morals development type approach to determining what is right and wrong.

 

People who generally agree with the morals of the Bible as presented by the teacher often do fine in a class like that, even if they have a more relativistic view of right and wrong (often without realizing it); simply because they agree with the results.  It's subtle but, I think, important, to think through the question of whether there is an absolute right and wrong, and where it derives from, at some point in life.  Whether you want someone else to walk your child through this is another question.  Personally, I wouldn't want this, but if my child wanted to go, and was mature and of an age to think through this kind of thing, I might let her go anyway.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Carol in Cal.

[Xahm]

If you're still looking for a way to ask the teacher politely, maybe if you said something like "My son is interested in learning about other religions and so might like to take your class. Would this class be a good fit for that? If the purpose of the class is discipleship of Christian young people, I think it would be disruptive for the class and frustrating for him to be there."

[Scarlett]

I am a Christian.  I don't believe Jesus was God.  And I would not send my child to any such class.