I need help - NPD relative

[AmandaVT]

editing for a bit of privacy now that I've gotten some great thoughts. Thank you!

Edited June 14, 2016 by AmandaVT

[Rosie_0801]

You can't make him be a reasonable person, make other people stop behaving like flying monkeys or prevent other people being too afraid to side with you. 

 

There isn't really any point replying if any of those things are your goal. Or are you wanting advice on how to puff up his ego so he won't think to check you are obeying?

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

[AmandaVT]

You can't make him be a reasonable person, make other people stop behaving like flying monkeys or prevent other people being too afraid to side with you. 

 

There isn't really any point replying if any of those things are your goal. Or are you wanting advice on how to puff up his ego so he won't think to check you are obeying?

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I'm looking for a way to get child his gift. I guess I'm wondering what others would do. My instinct is to not reply, wait a week and send it to child's mother without giving NPD a heads up. 

[Heatherwith4]

I would just ignore him, and keep sending gifts through the child's mom.

[catz]

Has the mother asked you to stop?  I think your relationship with the child's mother is none of his business and I wouldn't let him dictate it.   Who the ex gets together with is none of his business if it's not harmful to the child.   If the mother wants you to stop, I'd probably completely back away and hope the teen gets a hold of you when he's an adult. 

 

I would cut him off completely.  Block his phone number and e-mail address and return mail to sender. 

[goldberry]

 

 

You are welcome to give the gift to me or to mom to give to him, but not CHILD'S MOTHER.

 

 

 

Is this an option?

[Rosie_0801]

I'm looking for a way to get child his gift. I guess I'm wondering what others would do. My instinct is to not reply, wait a week and send it to child's mother without giving NPD a heads up. 

 

You could say "I understand" or something similarly attention giving and do whatever you want anyway until he or his mum indicate they are unwilling to take the consequences.

[AmandaVT]

Thank you both. You'd think after 3 years, he wouldn't have the power to upset me this much still.

 

Am I incorrect in thinking he's not issuing "a boundary", but being controlling? 

[AmandaVT]

Has the mother asked you to stop?  I think your relationship with the child's mother is none of his business and I wouldn't let him dictate it.   Who the ex gets together with is none of his business if it's not harmful to the child.   If the mother wants you to stop, I'd probably completely back away and hope the teen gets a hold of you when he's an adult. 

 

I would cut him off completely.  Block his phone number and e-mail address and return mail to sender. 

 

So far mother has been more than willing to try to get the kids together and very happy to meet up with me a few times a year to have lunch/coffee and exchange gifts. He flipped out on her at Christmas and he can be very scary when he's mad. He forbid her from bringing Child over here to decorate Christmas cookies and at that point, she said she didn't want to be on the receiving end of his ire, so she canceled the playdate and we exchanged gifts. She does let Child text and e-mail us through her accounts. 

 

I have cut him off - he apparently will still e-mail DH. I'm trying to get all my thoughts together so DH and I can talk this through tonight.

[goldberry]

If you already have no contact with NPD, what is left for NPD to do to you if you don't give in to his demand?  

I would continue working with the child's mom and not respond.

[Rosie_0801]

 

 

Thank you both. You'd think after 3 years, he wouldn't have the power to upset me this much still.

 

It takes far longer than three years. 

 

 

 

Am I incorrect in thinking he's not issuing "a boundary", but being controlling?

 

Not in the least.

[gardenmom5]

are the parents divorced?  there are child custody agreements - and legally, he can't stop her from visiting with said child with a rational adult.

 

why does dad have a say with whom mom has relationships?

 

if they're still married - why is she married to a man who is so controlling?  not only does it damage her, it damages the child.

 

frankly - there are FAR bigger problems than you wanting to see the minor child of a NPD parent.

Edited June 13, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Rosie_0801]

if they're still married - why is she married to a man who is so controlling?  not only does it damage her, it damages the child.

 

Divorcing an NPD man is a hell of a scary thing. If you think it's damaging to the child to stay married, think what they can do when you leave. Kinsa's thread about her sister, for example. (I think it was Kinsa.) 

 

Legal truths don't mean much to people who don't respect them.

[zoobie]

The child's mom might acquiesce to his demands on this because it makes her life easier. She can't fight EVERY battle. Send the gifts to his mother. Or ask the child's mom what she would prefer. Don't be hurt if she agrees sending them to his mother would work better. It's tiresome dealing with crazy.

[bolt.]

I think you should continue to ignore the dad and carry on as normal with the mom. This will probably result in anger (which you might want to block) but it might also extend to him causing problems for the graduation events and/or confiscating the gift. That might give me pause, and ask myself, 'What is my real goal here?'

 

Is it possible to send it by mail directly to the child? Of have it delivered to the graduation event itself?

Edited June 13, 2016 by bolt.

[Janeway]

He has no legal right to control your relationship with his adult ex. And his adult ex, I assume, has the right to do what she wants. Ignore him. Put him on block.

[QueenCat]

I'm looking for a way to get child his gift. I guess I'm wondering what others would do. My instinct is to not reply, wait a week and send it to child's mother without giving NPD a heads up. 

 

As long as the mom is willing to receive the gifts for HER child, then keep doing it. She has the right to say it's "okay" to give them to her and then pass them on to HER son. Ignore the person with NPD.

[AmandaVT]

are the parents divorced?  there are child custody agreements - and legally, he can't stop her from visiting with said child with a rational adult.

 

why does dad have a say with whom mom has relationships?

 

if they're still married - why is she married to a man who is so controlling?  not only does it damage her, it damages the child.

 

frankly - there are FAR bigger problems than you wanting to see the minor child of a NPD parent.

 

They are not together (never married). They have almost equal custody, but mom is the main parent. Dad doesn't have an official say, but he has made her life miserable in the past so I don't want to make it hard for her to share custody.

[TammyS]

There are three things that aren't clear to me:

 

1. How old is the child? You said in one place that child was graduating, which suggest to me no longer a child?  But then you said 13, so I'm confused.  Anyway, if the "child" is grown, then you are free to ignore the father entirely.  Generally speaking,  I think this is a bad practice, because I strongly disapprove of people who interfere with the parent-child relationship, including with grown children.  However, I think that some crazy people require an exception.  If this is one of those cases, just be sure to ignore dad, but don't actually talk about dad to child, iykwim?

 

2. The mother of the child is willing to give you access/gifts on her time?  If that's the case, then just take the access through the mom, and let dad make himself crazy about it.  What do you care?

 

3. If you are no contact, why are you allowing dad to email you?  Block him entirely.

[Forget-Me-Not]

Don't reply to him. If mom is okay with you giving gifts directly to her, do so and ignore NPD guy.

[TammyS]

Thank you both. You'd think after 3 years, he wouldn't have the power to upset me this much still.

 

Am I incorrect in thinking he's not issuing "a boundary", but being controlling? 

 

Who cares what you call it?  Boundaries are for people in relationships.  Are you in a relationship with this person?  If you are, you two need to negotiate your boundaries.  If not, just ignore him.

[TammyS]

So far mother has been more than willing to try to get the kids together and very happy to meet up with me a few times a year to have lunch/coffee and exchange gifts. He flipped out on her at Christmas and he can be very scary when he's mad. He forbid her from bringing Child over here to decorate Christmas cookies and at that point, she said she didn't want to be on the receiving end of his ire, so she canceled the playdate and we exchanged gifts. She does let Child text and e-mail us through her accounts. 

 

I have cut him off - he apparently will still e-mail DH. I'm trying to get all my thoughts together so DH and I can talk this through tonight.

 

Well, the fact that the mother doesn't want to put up with his ire is her problem.  Nothing you can do about that.

 

Apparently you AREN'T no contact.  No contact means NO contact, not less routes of contact.  To an NPD, 1 route of contact is as good as a 100, in terms of the misery that they can inflict.  Just imagine if you had blocked him from emailing and gone actual no contact?  You wouldn't be worried about this any more.

[hornblower]

Who had legal custody of this child? 
 

[AmandaVT]

There are three things that aren't clear to me:

 

1. How old is the child? You said in one place that child was graduating, which suggest to me no longer a child?  But then you said 13, so I'm confused.  Anyway, if the "child" is grown, then you are free to ignore the father entirely.  Generally speaking,  I think this is a bad practice, because I strongly disapprove of people who interfere with the parent-child relationship, including with grown children.  However, I think that some crazy people require an exception.  If this is one of those cases, just be sure to ignore dad, but don't actually talk about dad to child, iykwim?

 

2. The mother of the child is willing to give you access/gifts on her time?  If that's the case, then just take the access through the mom, and let dad make himself crazy about it.  What do you care?

 

3. If you are no contact, why are you allowing dad to email you?  Block him entirely.

 

Graduating Jr High. He is 13. This is one of those cases for sure and we would never say anything. I write things like Dear Child, Happy Birthday, I hope 13 is a great year!! Love, us Or Dear Child, Merry Christmas and thank you so much for the yummy Christmas candy you and mom made. It was delicious!! Love, us. That's it. We're very conscious of not wanting to interfere with any relationship. 

 

2. I don't care, but I want to do the right thing for DH too. 

 

3. He e-mailed DH not me. I have him blocked, but DH hasn't taken that final step yet.

[AmandaVT]

Who had legal custody of this child? 

 

 

Mom has legal custody. 

[fraidycat]

Ignore him. Just pretend he did not even send the message. You are correct that his behavior is controlling and not a boundary.

 

Ask the mom if she minds if you send gifts through her - to avoid causing more stress for her - as she is in the unfortunate situation of not being able to ignore his existence.

 

Maybe, to avoid stress for the boy and his mother - write a letter to the child (through his Mom) that you love him etc. and let him know that for all future gift giving occasions you're depositing money to an account and he is welcome to collect when he's 18 and his father can't make life so miserable for everyone. Then, for the actual occasion, you can just send a signed card through the Dad/grandmother with a smiley face or some benign symbol that you've made him aware of ahead of time just to let him know you still care and you dropped another $xx into his "account"/envelope/whatever.

Edited June 13, 2016 by fraidycat

[hornblower]

Mom has legal custody. 

 

If the person who has legal custody of this child has no problem with you giving them gifts, then I'd put the other parent on block on all forms of communication & completely ignore them. Do not answer, do not engage, do not explain, nothing. 

[TammyS]

 

 

2. I don't care, but I want to do the right thing for DH too. 

 

3. He e-mailed DH not me. I have him blocked, but DH hasn't taken that final step yet.

 

I think you need to do what you know is right, and if your dh allows himself to be made crazy by crazy relative, then I would allow him to own that.  He's making a choice to be involved with a crazy person.  He gets the consequence of that choice.  I wouldn't cut off relations with a minor, who has a parent that is ok with my contact, because dh wants to continue to be involved with a crazy person.

 

"No, sweetums, I'm not going to fail to send a card to junior just because you want to maintain contact with Mr. Crazypants.  You want contact with him, you gotta take the cray."

 

ETA: I'd probably also tell dh that since I am on no-contact, I don't want to hear about his contact with Mr. Crazypants, either.   I don't have sufficient emotional resource to have sympathy for self-inflicted misery.

Edited June 13, 2016 by TammyS

[momof4inco]

Maybe, to avoid stress for the boy and his mother - write a letter to the child (through his Mom) that you love him etc. and let him know that for all future gift giving occasions you're depositing money to an account and he is welcome to collect when he's 18 and his father can't make life so miserable for everyone. Then, for the actual occasion, you can just send a signed card through the Dad/grandmother with a smiley face or some benign symbol that you've made him aware of ahead of time just to let him know you still care and you dropped another $xx into his "account"/envelope/whatever.

 

This is what I was thinking. Open an account for him. You could work with the mom and get him one that has a debit card attached, so that he doesn't have to wait until he's 18 to get the gifts. Then you don't have to work around his ridiculous demands anymore.

 

It puts mom in a hard situation. She likes you and wants you around her son, but she has to deal with his anger over you not obeying him. My ex-SIL had to deal with my brother like this, she could't let him see certain people. We also weren't allowed to talk to her anymore. I like her far more than I like my brother!

[MomatHWTK]

I wonder if your desire to communicate with the child isn't resulting in a great deal of grief for the mother and in future the child himself. It seems to me that if the child knows you care, then you could simply wait 5 more years to make renewed contact and not stir the pot in the meantime. You are intentionally poking an angry bear with a stick just because you don't like that the bear lives in the woods. 

 

ETA: I say this as the victim of an NPD, they will take their anger out on someone else to get to you. Like or not, when you poke the stick someone else it put at risk. : (

Edited June 13, 2016 by MomatHWTK

[fraidycat]

This is what I was thinking. Open an account for him. You could work with the mom and get him one that has a debit card attached, so that he doesn't have to wait until he's 18 to get the gifts. Then you don't have to work around his ridiculous demands anymore.

 

It puts mom in a hard situation. She likes you and wants you around her son, but she has to deal with his anger over you not obeying him. My ex-SIL had to deal with my brother like this, she could't let him see certain people. We also weren't allowed to talk to her anymore. I like her far more than I like my brother!

I didn't even think of a debit card - even if I did just open my own kids debit - card accounts in the past two weeks. :) You're right - then the innocent child doesn't need to wait on his gift.

[BlsdMama]

 not the least of which is he's a multi time sex offender. 

 

 

 

Just as an aside - I thought people like this weren't allowed to share custody with the other parent?  Doesn't that seem risky to the judge?

 

 

On topic, I'd meet Mom for a coffee date.  Ask her how she feels - does she feel trapped in the middle?  Does she feel put on the spot of either acquiescing to you or dealing with his anger? This is rough for her to already be co-parenting with someone like this.  I'd ask her how she'd like you to handle contact with her child.  His opinion really doesn't count for a hill of beans if custodial parent is perfectly fine with it, IMO.  If he was normal I'd say respect the line.... But, well.

[purplejackmama]

Does NPD belong to you or your DH?

[momof4inco]

I wonder if your desire to communicate with the child isn't resulting in a great deal of grief for the mother and in future the child himself. It seems to me that if the child knows you care, then you could simply wait 5 more years to make renewed contact and not stir the pot in the meantime. You are intentionally poking an angry bear with a stick just because you don't like that the bear lives in the woods. 

 

ETA: I say this as the victim of an NPD, they will take their anger out on someone else to get to you. Like or not, when you poke the stick someone else it put at risk. : (

 

I think you're right in that it could anger the NPD. But... I think giving into his demands gives him more power. There has to be middle ground between "forget you, I'll do what I want" and "okay, I'll give in to your every demand".

[purplejackmama]

Does NPD belong to you or your DH?

[Rosie_0801]

I think you're right in that it could anger the NPD. But... I think giving into his demands gives him more power. There has to be middle ground between "forget you, I'll do what I want" and "okay, I'll give in to your every demand".

 

What kind of middle ground are you imagining?

[MinivanMom]

If the person who has legal custody of this child has no problem with you giving them gifts, then I'd put the other parent on block on all forms of communication & completely ignore them. Do not answer, do not engage, do not explain, nothing. 

 

This.

 

Currently, you are maintaining contact with NPD relative. If you really want to be "do not contact" with this relative, then your husband needs to change his email address or block this guy, and you need to refuse to discuss NPD relative with any other relatives including his ex/the custodial mom. I would continue giving gifts and getting together unless or until ex/custodial mom asks you to stop. But do not engage with the NPD relative at all.

 

Be emotionally prepared for the worse to happen. He may pressure ex/custodial mom to cut off contact with you as well. If she does that, then you need to respect that boundary. She and nephew may be dealing with an immense amount of emotional abuse and pressure. It would be better to support them by not making contact (if that's what she requests) than to try to be right on this. It will not matter in the long run if you can't send cards or gifts to nephew for the next four years; nephew is old enough to figure out who loves him unconditionally and who is controlling & crazy. Be patient, and things will come out right.

[AmandaVT]

Does NPD belong to you or your DH?

 

He belongs to DH 

 

I don't know how to multi-quote, so I'm going to try to answer everyone here. 

 

I don't think we're doing anything hurtful to child. He e-mailed me a very sweet e-mail after Christmas thanking us for our gift and hoping that we had a nice holiday. His mom is great, very open and honest with him. 

 

I think it's a good idea to make a coffee date with her to see what she would like to do going forward. This particular gift is a card with money in it and NPD doesn't get to dictate which of his child's houses the card gets mailed to. He gets mail at both his mom and dad's house regularly. 

 

Blsdmama - because they were never married, they didn't have to get divorced. He only had 1 conviction at the time of their divorce (a second since then though). I know mom has the "signing important papers" custody in the agreement they wrote up and final say on things like schooling and Dr stuff. I'm not sure what they had to do legally though. 

 

Mom has never seemed upset to me. For the most part, we talk about totally non NPD related things, but when they come up, we both grumble about how ridiculous he is and what a good job she's doing with child walking the fine line of not wanting to take him away from dad unless necessary while keeping an eye on dad's controlling ways and being prepared to pull custody from him if/when needed. 

 

I'll talk to DH about possibly setting up an account for child. That's not a bad idea if mom doesn't feel good about letting us send cards. As he is 13 now, I'm happy sending money or gift cards for presents now, so I won't need to do a hand off with anyone going forward.

[momof4inco]

What kind of middle ground are you imagining?

 

What I suggested above - an account to deposit gifts into with a debit card so that he can spend the money. No contact needed, but the child still gets gifts for accomplishments that deserve recognition from the family (graduation), birthdays, and holidays.

 

I understand cutting off contact would be easier. Even if the child knows he is loved, it could create hurt feelings if he stopped getting gifts. I had to cut off my entire family because of drama and many other problems. They stopped sending gifts to my kids, which I understand but the kids don't. Deciding to wait 5 years for the child to be 18 could cause unintended problems as well.

[Rosie_0801]

What I suggested above - an account to deposit gifts into with a debit card so that he can spend the money. No contact needed, but the child still gets gifts for accomplishments that deserve recognition from the family (graduation), birthdays, and holidays.

 

I see. That appears to be in the "do as I like" category to me. 

[Laurie4b]

Maybe I missed it, but who is telling NPD father about your gift-giving to his son? 

 

 

 

[mathnerd]

Can't you do it secretly? As in contact the child's mother and give her the gift and ask her to tell the CHILD not to reveal to the NPD who gave it. CHILD could just say that the gift was from his/her mom. If there are child custody agreements in place, the child's mother can bring the child to your house for playdates. I have NPDs in my family and I know how controlling they can be - so, my suggestion is to never mention the meetings with the child to the NPD. I think, at age 13, the child has a good idea of what is going on and what kind of parent the NPD is. I don't think that it is devious to not let NPD know about the gifts because crazy people are not normal people and normal rules of polite society do not apply. 

[Janeway]

I am curious though, do you know this child? I mean, you seem to indicate that you have not seen the child in a long time. You seem to be on no contact from the child due to the mother not standing up to the father. If so, why is it so important to maintain this contact? I get thinking it is "for the child" but is it really, when the child is being torn between doing what his parents expect and receiving gifts? I mean, if the only relationship you have with the child is sending gifts, then what is the purpose? That is sort of like buying his affections if he has no relationship with you beyond the gifts. I am not saying that is your intent, but that basically is it. If I am reading this correct, there is no relationship with the child beyond sending gifts. The child would not recognize you, there is no emotional relationship. There is a hope that by purchasing gifts and sending them, the child will like you, based on the gifts. See what I am trying to say? I know it is not your intent, but, it is what is happening. I would let it go. Stop sending gifts. Not because the dad says so, but because this is a child and no one is making any effort for him to see you. You simply do not have a relationship with him. Of course, this is only saying IF the mom is not bothering. You said you had not seen him in so long, and if the mom does not want to remedy it, then you should move on.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Janeway

[AmandaVT]

Maybe I missed it, but who is telling NPD father about your gift-giving to his son? 

 

MIL

[AmandaVT]

I am curious though, do you know this child? I mean, you seem to indicate that you have not seen the child in a long time. You seem to be on no contact from the child due to the mother not standing up to the father. If so, why is it so important to maintain this contact? I get thinking it is "for the child" but is it really, when the child is being torn between doing what his parents expect and receiving gifts? I mean, if the only relationship you have with the child is sending gifts, then what is the purpose? That is sort of like buying his affections if he has no relationship with you beyond the gifts. I am not saying that is your intent, but that basically is it. If I am reading this correct, there is no relationship with the child beyond sending gifts. The child would not recognize you, there is no emotional relationship. There is a hope that by purchasing gifts and sending them, the child will like you, based on the gifts. See what I am trying to say? I know it is not your intent, but, it is what is happening. I would let it go. Stop sending gifts. Not because the dad says so, but because this is a child and no one is making any effort for him to see you. You simply do not have a relationship with him. Of course, this is only saying IF the mom is not bothering. You said you had not seen him in so long, and if the mom does not want to remedy it, then you should move on.

 

Up until 3 years ago, we did have a relationship. The boys played and were good friends and I babysat him regularly. Dh and I tried to keep an acquaintance level relationship going with NPD in order to be able to have a relationship. Mom and Child buy gifts for our son for Christmas and birthdays and we exchange yummy christmas goodies as well. 3 years ago, NPD, DH and I had a big blowout that MIL decided to get in the middle of (she has her own issues). Since then, NPD has been playing MIL and using her to get back into our graces. She lets us know how well he's doing and how much he regrets his past behaviors. Which is all well and good, and he's great at acting the part, until he sends nasty e-mails to DH. There had been no contact since Christmas and we thought we were past this until today's e-mail. I've been hoping that once he's old enough to be able to make his own decisions, he'll want to re-establish a relationship with us (once he's 18). In the meantime, I'm not going to stop sending him gifts. None of this is his fault and we still love him to bits.

 

DH should be home from work soon. He's been in sessions all afternoon - curious if he replied or is waiting on me. 

 

Thank you all so much for your thoughts. It's helped me a lot to be able to look at this from various angles and think it through. 

My plan is going to be talk to DH tonight and see what's happened (if anything ) since the e-mail this afternoon. 

 

Set up a coffee date with ex SIL - we're due for one anyway and see what she wants to do going forward. 

 

Suggest to DH that he may want to think about asking NPD to not contact him any longer. It is quite nice when we go months without hearing anything. 

[AmandaVT]

Can't you do it secretly? As in contact the child's mother and give her the gift and ask her to tell the CHILD not to reveal to the NPD who gave it. CHILD could just say that the gift was from his/her mom. If there are child custody agreements in place, the child's mother can bring the child to your house for playdates. I have NPDs in my family and I know how controlling they can be - so, my suggestion is to never mention the meetings with the child to the NPD. I think, at age 13, the child has a good idea of what is going on and what kind of parent the NPD is. I don't think that it is devious to not let NPD know about the gifts because crazy people are not normal people and normal rules of polite society do not apply. 

 

None of us (DH, me, Mom of Child) feel comfortable with this. I don't want to make Child a secret keeper - he deals with enough of that from NPD and MIL. 

[Janeway]

Up until 3 years ago, we did have a relationship. The boys played and were good friends and I babysat him regularly. Dh and I tried to keep an acquaintance level relationship going with NPD in order to be able to have a relationship. Mom and Child buy gifts for our son for Christmas and birthdays and we exchange yummy christmas goodies as well. 3 years ago, NPD, DH and I had a big blowout that MIL decided to get in the middle of (she has her own issues). Since then, NPD has been playing MIL and using her to get back into our graces. She lets us know how well he's doing and how much he regrets his past behaviors. Which is all well and good, and he's great at acting the part, until he sends nasty e-mails to DH. There had been no contact since Christmas and we thought we were past this until today's e-mail. I've been hoping that once he's old enough to be able to make his own decisions, he'll want to re-establish a relationship with us (once he's 18). In the meantime, I'm not going to stop sending him gifts. None of this is his fault and we still love him to bits.

 

DH should be home from work soon. He's been in sessions all afternoon - curious if he replied or is waiting on me. 

 

Thank you all so much for your thoughts. It's helped me a lot to be able to look at this from various angles and think it through. 

My plan is going to be talk to DH tonight and see what's happened (if anything ) since the e-mail this afternoon. 

 

Set up a coffee date with ex SIL - we're due for one anyway and see what she wants to do going forward. 

 

Suggest to DH that he may want to think about asking NPD to not contact him any longer. It is quite nice when we go months without hearing anything. 

Yes, I think you need to speak to her. Sounds like it is fine to send gifts then. But if the mom does not want to reconcile, it might be sending the wrong message to continue. It is hard to explain what I mean via a message board. BUT, if the adults are all telling the boy that this is ok, and your boy this is ok, let's sneak around to get gifts to each other, but not ever see each other, and no one ever stands up to NPD, then it is sending the wrong message to the kids. Its not the gift that counts, its the relationship. Gifts alone do not make a relationship. The mom does not need the dad's permission.

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Yes, I think you need to speak to her. Sounds like it is fine to send gifts then. But if the mom does not want to reconcile, it might be sending the wrong message to continue. It is hard to explain what I mean via a message board. BUT, if the adults are all telling the boy that this is ok, and your boy this is ok, let's sneak around to get gifts to each other, but not ever see each other, and no one ever stands up to NPD, then it is sending the wrong message to the kids. Its not the gift that counts, its the relationship. Gifts alone do not make a relationship. The mom does not need the dad's permission.

 

What is the right message to send to the kids? And what use it is to say the mum does not need the dad's permission? It's not like he asks permission of anyone else to punish them for not abiding by his whims.

[mom2samlibby]

None of us (DH, me, Mom of Child) feel comfortable with this. I don't want to make Child a secret keeper - he deals with enough of that from NPD and MIL. 

 

This seems odd to me.  Why does the child need to tell dad that you sent a gift?  My kids don't call everyone up in the family to say so and so sent them a card with some money.  This seems like stirring the pot.

 

If I were mom of child, I'd advise the child to keep the information about receiving a gift quiet unless they like the drama.

[HS Mom in NC]

I would tell the kid's mom something like, "I would like to continue to send cards/gifts and see your son but only if it's worth it for the two of you.  You know how your ex is reacting to all of this. Tell me what your preference is. Would it make life better for you two if I stopped?  Would it be better for you two if I sent them through you?  Would it be better for you two if I sent them if I sent them through NPD's mother like he asked? You're not going to hurt my feelings no matter what you say.  You can change your mind later if you decide to.  What I want is what makes life as good as it can be for you and your child under the circumstances. "

Then act according to whatever answer the child's mother tells you. Here's how I would prioritize things in my head:

 

1. Whatever most contributes to the quality of life for kid and kid's mom.

2. Not feeding the NPD crazy.
3. Maintaining my norms of getting together and sending cards/gifts.

 

OP, if gift giving is your love language (I'm not sold on the theory of love languages but I'm using the term because it's understood and accepted by many people) then I think it's important to consciously realize that just because it's important to you, it doesn't make it the most important thing in this situation.  Neither is being right. Of course he has no say who the mom spends time with and accepts cards and gifts from (with the bounds of the law) on her child's behalf. 

While all that's true, it's also true that people dealing in NPD types are usually running low on mental and emotional reserves because they have to deal with all kinds of crazy crap all the time.  It's a drain.  People in those circumstances have to choose very carefully which of these kinds of conflicts are the best investment of their limited resources.  That may mean reducing any stress NPD jerk will send her way over this issue with you so she can focus her mental and emotional reserves on fighting other sources of stress in her life related to NPD, single motherhood, blended families, economic stress, and or any of the other thousand things that crash onto people in situations like hers.  Let her be in the driver's seat on this one. She knows what's best for her and her son. Don't take it personally if she doesn't choose the option you want her to choose.  She's tied to this guy through their son for the rest of their lives and this kind of thing is likely to continue. She's got enough stress in life.