Name this Latin class!

[katilac]

Younger dd used Third Form Latin with a mix of other materials, readings, and resources to round out Latin 3 this year. 

 

She wants to continue with Latin next year, but not to the point of it being what I would consider Latin 4 based on language skills alone. She will use Fourth Form Latin but the extra resources will be geared more towards literature, history, art than usual. 

 

I've seen Latin Language and Culture. Does Latin Language, Literature, and Culture sound better or too long? 

 

Do they both sound too introductory? Or will the sequence make it fairly obvious? 

 

Better ideas? 

 

 

[Faithr]

I am not familiar with the Latin curriculum you are using, but does it align at all with the National Latin Exam?  If you go to their website, you could see if what she is covering corresponds to what they expect.  The thing is most Latin classes these days are not pure language but often include history, literature and culture.  I mean once you get deeper into Latin it is all about translating anyway, so the student is translating history/lit and needs to know the culture in order to put things in context anyway.  So I don't know that you need to do anything more than just call it Latin 4.

 

www.nle.org

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Are you saying that you will be doing less in Latin than before or just that you are shifting to reading in Latin and doing translation than learning grammar?

 

Are you adding English versions of works like the Aeneid in place of reading sections in Latin or as a basis for working with the Latin original?

 

I think culture including history and art are natural parts of a language course.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Younger dd used Third Form Latin with a mix of other materials, readings, and resources to round out Latin 3 this year. 

 

She wants to continue with Latin next year, but not to the point of it being what I would consider Latin 4 based on language skills alone. She will use Fourth Form Latin but the extra resources will be geared more towards literature, history, art than usual. 

 

I've seen Latin Language and Culture. Does Latin Language, Literature, and Culture sound better or too long? 

 

Do they both sound too introductory? Or will the sequence make it fairly obvious? 

 

Better ideas? 

 

Now that I'm on a real keyboard...

 

DS did AP Latin with Lukeion last year (which is their 4th year).  They read a lot of Virgil and Caesar (every section for the AP exam).

 

Before the course, the teacher recommended that students read The Illiad and The Odyssey as well as The Aeneid in English.  The Aeneid was so they would be familiar with the story when it came time to translate it.  The Homer readings were so the student had the background to understand the poetic choices that Virgil made.  My son also read Caesar's Gallic War in English before the 2nd semester.

 

When I wrote up my course descriptions, I listed Virgil and Caesar in the textbook listing for AP Latin.  I put The Illiad and The Odyssey in the listing for his English course that year.  (In fact, he wrote on Odysseus for this long AP English essay.)

 

FWIW, Latin 3 included word study essays, which required research and understanding of Roman history and culture in order to explain the significance of particular words over time.  Also the German book I'm using with another son has several pages of readings in English that describe things like the German school system, historical events in Berlin, what German university is like, etc.  

 

So I think there is a fair amount of culture and English reading about history, art, etc that is a natural part of a language course.  I'm not sure you have to call it anything other than Latin 4, unless you feel that your are actually reducing the amount of work in Latin you've been doing and replacing it with readings in translation or on history and culture.

[katilac]

Are you saying that you will be doing less in Latin than before or just that you are shifting to reading in Latin and doing translation than learning grammar?

 

Are you adding English versions of works like the Aeneid in place of reading sections in Latin or as a basis for working with the Latin original?

 

I think culture including history and art are natural parts of a language course.

 

The sentence I bolded is probably a good example: we will be reading a novelized version of the Aeneid in English. Then, we will read the standard selections in Latin, but heavily using the guiding notes and vocabulary list - it will be more of getting a feel for the original rather than true translation or straight reading. 

 

I am not familiar with the Latin curriculum you are using, but does it align at all with the National Latin Exam?  If you go to their website, you could see if what she is covering corresponds to what they expect.  The thing is most Latin classes these days are not pure language but often include history, literature and culture.  I mean once you get deeper into Latin it is all about translating anyway, so the student is translating history/lit and needs to know the culture in order to put things in context anyway.  So I don't know that you need to do anything more than just call it Latin 4.

 

www.nle.org

 

You know, I am familiar with NLE, I think I even have the levels printed out, lol. I don't know why I didn't think of that - I will blame bouncing around too many classes and resources at the moment!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The sentence I bolded is probably a good example: we will be reading a novelized version of the Aeneid in English. Then, we will read the standard selections in Latin, but heavily using the guiding notes and vocabulary list - it will be more of getting a feel for the original rather than true translation or straight reading. 

 

 

 

 

This may still be within the lanes for an average 4th year language course that isn't AP level.  Lukeion is not an apples to apples comparison, because it does not have a 4th year that isn't prep for the AP exam.

 

FWIW, in 300 level language courses in German and Russian, we had assignments such as reading a news article (starting with a half page and then going up to 1-2 page articles) or reading a history passage.  Sometimes we read vocabulary controlled stories that had glosses for unusual words.  

 

Have you tried searching for some Latin 4 syllabuses or 4th year syllabuses for other languages?

[2_girls_mommy]

My dd got halfway through Fourth Form this year. Fourth Form uses Henle I, which is a first year program for high schools.  She took the Latin I exam in the NLEs.   She got a perfect score on it, and I gave her credit for Latin I.  She will finish Fourth Form and move into Henle II next year (also reading the Aeniad again and other history/culture because we will be back to an ancients year, but we study Roman Culture each year for the exams.)  When I looked at the exam syllabi, the Latin II exam covered a lot of grammar we were doing in Fourth Form, but I didn't feel she had mastered it yet, as we only got about halfway through it this year.  IMO if your dd finished Fourth Form, that's about a level II on the exams.

 

My dd will get her latin II credit after finishing Fourth Form and a chunk of Henle II.

 

*** Though obviously, I only know my experience.  I don't know what your other readings are like as far beefing up the Form series for credits! I just know that when I looked at the exam syllabi, I didn't think halfway through Fourth Form that we were ready for the Latin II exam, at least to do well on it.  I know that kids that just finished Third Form would not be as there were a lot of phrases and grammar that were not introduced until Fourth Form.

Edited June 8, 2016 by 2_girls_mommy

[Faithr]

2_girls mommy! I just finished teaching the second half of Henle First Year and I just want to warn you that while Henle spends a lot of time on the subjunctive , that is not on the the NLE 2 test. The things that are on the test, like comparative adj. come towards the end of Henle. It was really hard to prep for the NLE2. But my kids hadn't done the other series (first form), so perhaps that changes things. I just wanted to warn you about the lack of synchronicity btween the 2nd half of Henle and the NLE.

[Pistachio mom]

I just used Henle for a Latin 3 credit for my daughter. We had done Latina Christiana I and II, first form and part of second form, and BJ  Press Latin previously, I called our Latin this year Latin 3: Advanced Christian Latin.  With  your plans for next year, you might call it something like "Readings in Latin Literature" or Survey of Latin Literature. Applied Christian Latin: Survey of Latin Literature Selections. Introduction to Latin Literature. When I checked the first form series, Memoria calls each course 1/2 credit. But you are adding in additional literature. You could even consider a Latin 3a and a Latin 3b.

 

 

I also very much like your title: Latin Language, Literature, and Culture. It gives you wiggle room to adapt this course to be really interesting and a good fit for your high school student. And I do not think it is too long. It is precise. Much better than just Latin Language and Culture. Adding in the literature implies that your student must have a degree of mastery to even read the literature.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Pistachio mom

[katilac]

Thanks for the input! I'm going to take a closer look at levels today, and google some syllabi (like I always tell other people to do, lol). 

 

We are getting a little wilder and crazier than usual this year with special projects and combining topics across the curriculum, and I keep getting lost in the weeds. 

[2_girls_mommy]

2_girls mommy! I just finished teaching the second half of Henle First Year and I just want to warn you that while Henle spends a lot of time on the subjunctive , that is not on the the NLE 2 test. The things that are on the test, like comparative adj. come towards the end of Henle. It was really hard to prep for the NLE2. But my kids hadn't done the other series (first form), so perhaps that changes things. I just wanted to warn you about the lack of synchronicity btween the 2nd half of Henle and the NLE.

 

Good to know.  Fourth Form uses Henle totally out of order, so comparative adj. and adv. have been covered (and some in Third Form as well. ) And yes it spends a LOT of time on subjunctive phrases and the passive voice.  It was easy to get bogged down in it all, lol.  I am glad I was able to spread Fourth out over 8th and 9th grade for her.  It wasn't the original plan, but we have that luxury. I think my dd will do well on level II if we just continue at our current pace.  She'll be finished or close to it, by Spring for exam time, then can start Henle II.