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Because "well, they were both drunk, so..." comes up so often in discussions about rape...


Xuzi
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But that was written (no doubt with the assistance of his lawyer) as a plea for leniency after he was convicted.

 

He blames alcohol and partying culture and "the influence of peer pressure and the attitude of having to fit in" for what happened to this woman. He says he wishes he could go back in time and never take a drink or "interact with [the victim]." Instead of wishing he'd never raped her, he wishes he'd never met her — because if he hadn't met this drunk girl who wanted to have sex with him, his life wouldn't have been ruined??? I found his letter every bit as appalling as his father's and friends' letters.

 

In the trial he stated that she repeatedly gave consent, that he had no idea she was unconscious, and that he believed she liked it. There is nothing he can say now, or for the rest of his life, that can mitigate the fact that he claimed, under oath, that the victim enjoyed being stripped and assaulted so roughly that there were abrasions, dirt, and pine needles in her vagina.

Yes, of course, because women do so enjoy being so violently assaulted that we end up bruised, cut, and with our privates full of all kinds of foreign bodies that shouldn't be there.

 

Yep, not once, not once has he been sorry he raped her. I would suspect that is because like all rapists, he liked dominating her, hurting, her, oppressing her...he got his rush, his adrenalin high. I am not a clinical expert on the topic, but it makes me suspect that his chances of doing it again in the future will be high.

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And if anyone ever does tell you about an incident, even if they aren't sure if it was rape/assault/whatever, the very best thing to say is "I'm sorry. I know you didn't want that to happen." Everyone else said "oh wow, are you sure?" or "I can't imagine he would have done that" or "Well, you were really drunk....."

 

"I'm sorry,I know you didn't want that to happen." That's what to say.

 

(or my now husband, then ex boyfriend, offered to come hunt the second guy down with a bat if I wanted. That was sort of helpful too. Not that he was going to do it, or I would have wanted him to, but the offer was nice.)

 

Oh, and maybe suggest the word rape to them, but don't force it. They may be doing mental contortions to avoid applying that word to themselves.

 

Yes. To all of this. And if you go looking for a house guest and find him naked in bed with your sleeping wife, don't stand in the doorway until she wakes up and then turn and walk away. I still can't believe he did that.

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Yes. To all of this. And if you go looking for a house guest and find him naked in bed with your sleeping wife, don't stand in the doorway until she wakes up and then turn and walk away. I still can't believe he did that.

 

I'm so sorry, Scarlett. If it helps, I believe you completely. I can totally see how this would play out. I can almost visualize it. I know that you never should have encouraged such a thing, and that you didn't want it to happen. I'm sorry the person who should have supported you the most let you down. 

 

And maybe, what I would want most isn't as much a change in legal issues, but a change in society where we can accept women and listen and believe them. 

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I am wondering why we find it worthwhile to look up his statements and get angry about them.  We know he is not going to admit he is a rapist.  Every statement he ever makes is going to be carefully crafted so that it can't be used against him.  Do we just enjoy that feeling of ever-increasing outrage?  IMO it would be better to just not read / listen to his words at all.  He obviously thrives on attention, so let's stop rewarding his behavior.

Edited by SKL
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I'm so sorry, Scarlett. If it helps, I believe you completely. I can totally see how this would play out. I can almost visualize it. I know that you never should have encouraged such a thing, and that you didn't want it to happen. I'm sorry the person who should have supported you the most let you down.

 

And maybe, what I would want most isn't as much a change in legal issues, but a change in society where we can accept women and listen and believe them.

What I find odd is that the person who witnessed it with his own eyes is the one who would not support me. Every single other person I told was horrified by the entire story. No one disbelieved me.

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I am wondering why we find it worthwhile to look up his statements and get angry about them. We know he is not going to admit he is a rapist. Every statement he ever makes is going to be carefully crafted so that it can't be used against him. Do we just enjoy that feeling of ever-increasing outrage? IMO it would be better to just not read / listen to his words at all. He obviously thrives on attention, so let's stop rewarding his behavior.

I don't know either. I have not read her statements or his. It doesn't matter to me bc I'm already outraged over rape regardless of the details.

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I am wondering why we find it worthwhile to look up his statements and get angry about them.  We know he is not going to admit he is a rapist.  Every statement he ever makes is going to be carefully crafted so that it can't be used against him.  Do we just enjoy that feeling of ever-increasing outrage?  IMO it would be better to just not read / listen to his words at all.  He obviously thrives on attention, so let's stop rewarding his behavior.

 

No, actually, he is not "thriving" on the attention of all this outrage. The more it is discussed, the more his smug face is plastered all over the news, the more people express outrage and a determination to do something about it — like recalling the judge that gave him a slap on the wrist — the more it ensures that he will never be able to "put this behind him" and go back to the life he had before.

 

I'm all in favor of making this kid "the face of campus rape." I'm in favor of making the victim's statement — along with the statements of the rapist and his apologists — required reading of every college student. Because far far too many people still do. not. get. it. Far too many people still think exactly as Brock Turner and his friends and family do — that sex with an unconscious person is just "drunk sex," not "real" rape.

Edited by Corraleno
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No, actually, he is not "thriving" on the attention of all this outrage. The more it is discussed, the more his smug face is plastered all over the news, the more people express outrage and a determination to do something about it — like recalling the judge that gave him a slap on the wrist — the more it ensures that he will never be able to "put this behind him" and go back to the life he had before.

 

I'm all in favor of making this kid "the face of campus rape." I'm in favor of making the victim's statement — along with the statements of the rapist and his apologists — required reading of every college student. Because far far too many people still do. not. get. it. Far too many people still think exactly as Brock Turner and his friends and family do — that sex with an unconscious person is just "drunk sex," not "real" rape.

I don't think he is thriving on it either. I think it only serves him to ignore his part in this. I'm glad his drug and alcohol abuse is exposed. His defense was to tear down the character of his victim, now that is coming back to him. 

 

We need the outrage to last because people get angry then they continue to use the exact same language that makes this kind of thing acceptable in our society. The language that puts the blame on women so they often don't tell anyone else, let alone report it and if they do the chances of the appropriate punishment happening is all too slim.

 

We need to keep this story in the limelight so it is drilled into people's head, this isn't about teaching women to be "safe" so much as it is about changing how women are thought of. Too many think that they aren't the problem yet they subtly or not so subtly sending messages to their daughter that keep rape something we don't talk about. We need to stop tying the value of a women to her virginity, tying blame for a men's actions to a women's dress/actions/words, judging women based on how they dress(the message is sent that some girls deserve it) and judging women and men differently for their sexual actions.

 

We must stop expecting our sons to be driven and crazed by sex scarcely able to control themselves. We must drill what consent means, even if it makes us uncomfortable. 

Edited by soror
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Well I like that his pretty photo is viral on the internet.  I'm not suggesting we sweep him under the rug.  I just don't see the point of letting him have his say in our minds.  There's nothing he can or will say that will improve the situation.

 

Oh well, I guess it's just another cultural thing that I choose not to buy into.

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Well I like that his pretty photo is viral on the internet.  I'm not suggesting we sweep him under the rug.  I just don't see the point of letting him have his say in our minds.  There's nothing he can or will say that will improve the situation.

 

Oh well, I guess it's just another cultural thing that I choose not to buy into.

 

It's not about "letting him have his say," it's about recognizing that a HUGE part of the problem of campus rape, and rape in general, is a direct result of the attitude that this kid, and his apologists, espouse. The problem isn't that Brock Turner won't admit what he knows to be true — that he raped this woman; the problem is that he, and his father and his friends and far too many other people, do not believe that what he did was rape.

 

What makes this case unusual is that we have, on the one hand, an incredibly powerful, moving, and articulate statement from the victim that spells out exactly what it feels like to be the victim of rape and how that has impacted her life, and on the other hand we have clear, explicit, written statements from the perpetrator and his family stating that this wasn't really rape and that the rapist is the real victim here.

 

Add in the fact that the judge basically sided with the rapist and gave him a slap on the wrist, and you couldn't create a clearer illustration of rape culture if you made the whole thing up.

Edited by Corraleno
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Somewhere around page 2, I started skimming instead of reading.  I'm glad this post was last and caught my eye.

 

Sober women get raped.

Old women get raped.

Unattractive women get raped.

Women covered from head to toe get raped.

Men get raped.

 

Telling women to change their behavior and appearance does not cure rapists.

 

It is not in my power to cure rapists. It is in my power how I dress and where I drink. Just like drivers with seat belts get kills in accidents--I still wear a seat belt. But I also dress and drink for myself--not because I want to alter my apperance and behavior for someone else.

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Here's the thing. Being drunk is not *inherently* a bad thing. It is considered a bad thing by some individuals and also by individual and collective thought of some religions.

 

Being sexually active (as a single) is not inherently a bad thing. It is considered so by some individuals and collectively by some understanding of some religions.

 

However in and of themselves drunkeness and sexual activity =\= equal a wrong. It is a JUDGED wrong.

 

The bias against them is prevalent in this thread - just as it is in (western) society. The truth is that being drunk or sleeping with lots of people has nothing, ever, to do with being a victim of rape. Women who drink and women who have sex should have just as much safety and justice (should safety be breached) as sober, chaste women.

 

But that is not honor is played out in actual courts and certainly in the court of public opinion.

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https://mic.com/articles/114066/statistics-show-exactly-how-many-times-trans-people-have-attacked-you-in-bathrooms#.NblVVTvVW

 

Mostly, our country seems to be completely and utterly screwed up when it comes to sex, gender, and crime. and some of our politicians seem to manage to hatch the most hair-brained, stupid, illogical public policies such that matters can only get worse not better,

 

Seriously, we just need to clean house in this nation. Politically and judicially. And I think community law enforcement needs a LOT more training.

I'm not sure where you were going with this, but I think the change really needs to begin in our homes. Boys need to be taught respect and decency. They need it modeled in their homes by their fathers. Someone earlier mentioned that a crazy high percentage of men admitted they would rape a woman if there was zero percent chance they'd get caught. That's just sick. There is something fundamentally wrong with what those men have been taught about women and sex and I don't know this has anything to do with law enforcement or training. It has to do with the values and morals of our nation. This rape culture in the US won't be cured by laws or harsh punishments. IMO, it won't even be cured by emphasizing the importance of getting consent. Men need to have a deep sense of value and respect for women. But unstead, in our overly sexualized culture, women are more likely to viewed as objects to satisfy men's desires.

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I'm not sure where you were going with this, but I think the change really needs to begin in our homes. Boys need to be taught respect and decency. They need it modeled in their homes by their fathers. Someone earlier mentioned that a crazy high percentage of men admitted they would rape a woman if there was zero percent chance they'd get caught. That's just sick. There is something fundamentally wrong with what those men have been taught about women and sex and I don't know this has anything to do with law enforcement or training. It has to do with the values and morals of our nation. This rape culture in the US won't be cured by laws or harsh punishments. IMO, it won't even be cured by emphasizing the importance of getting consent. Men need to have a deep sense of value and respect for women. But unstead, in our overly sexualized culture, women are more likely to viewed as objects to satisfy men's desires.

I was speaking more to the statistics and issues with reporting and after reporting. The fact that assaults are so often not reported says volumes about the system itself which highlights the problem with the judge in this case as well as the indifference victims face.

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I was speaking more to the statistics and issues with reporting and after reporting. The fact that assaults are so often not reported says volumes about the system itself which highlights the problem with the judge in this case as well as the indifference victims face.

 

I've actually seen people in forums I belong to say that this case influenced them to never report a rape if it happens. The details of the invasive rape kit, plus the joke of a sentence after being caught in the act, all make attempting to prosecute seem futile. 

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I've actually seen people in forums I belong to say that this case influenced them to never report a rape if it happens. The details of the invasive rape kit, plus the joke of a sentence after being caught in the act, all make attempting to prosecute seem futile.

That has always been a common thought though.

 

I personally know IRL those who regret reporting, even when they got a "decent" sentence at conviction.

 

Aside from the necessity of evidence gathering being an unavoidably invasive process, they never found closure from seeking justice. Instead it is a constant reopening of a wound and even a reasonable or harsh sentencing didn't make up for that.

 

I'm not sure how we can fix that. Evidence gathering and due process can't be tossed bc accusers/victims find it emotionally painful. I can understand why they'd report and why they wouldn't.

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Even sober, it can be difficult to prove that at the moment of the act there was consent, since it can be revoked at any time. Something whispered, a nod...at any time someone can change their mind. This is a good idea and women should be able to do so, but how it plays out practically can be complicated.

 

 

This happened to a friend of mine. She was in her boyfriends dorm room. They were fooling around with no clothes on. She didn't intend to "go all the way" but it happened. She told me several years later after she had broken up with him. As far as I know she never told anyone else.

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I don't think it is adaquate to leave it at - this is the fault of the rapist.  This kind of scenario is common enough that some colleges have looked at simply banning these kinds of parties - they seem to be a problem in themselves.  I don't think it makes any sense to ignore scenarios that seem for some reason to be hotbeds of crime either they are situations that attract predators, make people especially vulnerable, or encourage people to make worse decisions than they would normally.  I suspect that in the case of frat parties, and similar types of scenarios (I've seen military parties with a very similar atmosphere,) all of those things are going on.  The situation makes people vulnerable and so that attracts real predators, and the nature of the situation (substance abuse, lots of sex, peer pressure) tend to mean people behave in ways they normally don't and it also tends to normalize that behavior.

 

I don't think that anyone -- Anyone, deserves to be attacked.

 

I do think that the party scene is glamorized and the risk and danger is downplayed both in culture and in real life.  I grew up in the Animal House, Risky Business, Sixteen Candles era.  I know there is an assault in Animal House.  

 

These are events where a lot of strangers come together, substances are widely available that are known to impair judgement, heighten risk taking behavior, heighten aggressiveness and cause memory loss.  Some people frequent these events because they know that they will be in a position to take advantage of others there.

 

When I was in the military, there were frequently parts of town that were officially off limits to military members.  They were areas where assaults had occurred, where service members were often mugged, where organized crime operated or where murders had occurred.  There was one major incident where a sailor was killed and the entire island where it happened was off limits to the Navy for a while.  When my ship visited about 12 months later, we were required to have a buddy with us at all times on liberty.

 

I think that there is a disservice done when we downplay the risks and dangers of attending a party like this.  This is not the same as getting together with a couple friends and having a bottle of wine.  It isn't the same as a small party where the host knows everyone there.  Part of the draw to the large college party is how anonymous it is - with the attendant sense that you can get away with things you wouldn't do around people who knew you.  Somewhere, saying that these kinds of parties often drew people who were looking to take advantage of people who had let their guard down became something that people said contributed to rape culture.  This is something I don't get.  

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Maybe I'm weird, because those are conversations I've had with my kids, along with "if you see someone who is in trouble, you find a way to help them even if they don't seem happy for the help at the time" and "if you see someone who is who is being aggressive, you find a way to stop them - and if they are your friend you have more of an obligation to stop them, not less."  

 

But I would also have the conversation with a daughter that certain attire in certain settings would be seen by creeps as justifying their behavior.  And I would warn her about open containers and the "special punch" at parties.  In the same way that I told my sons to take their wallets out of their back pockets in crime prone areas.  

 

ETA:  I think one of they ways I phrased it to my sons was to treat each woman they dated as carefully and respectfully as they wanted other men to treat their future wife.  I can't recall ever saying that if the woman was dressed a certain way or acted a certain way that my sons were relieved of the obligation to act honorably.

Edited by Sebastian (a lady)
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I'm not sure where you were going with this, but I think the change really needs to begin in our homes. Boys need to be taught respect and decency. They need it modeled in their homes by their fathers. Someone earlier mentioned that a crazy high percentage of men admitted they would rape a woman if there was zero percent chance they'd get caught. That's just sick. There is something fundamentally wrong with what those men have been taught about women and sex and I don't know this has anything to do with law enforcement or training. It has to do with the values and morals of our nation. This rape culture in the US won't be cured by laws or harsh punishments. IMO, it won't even be cured by emphasizing the importance of getting consent. Men need to have a deep sense of value and respect for women. But unstead, in our overly sexualized culture, women are more likely to viewed as objects to satisfy men's desires.

 

It has been a while, but I remember a survey report years back that said the top thing women said they wanted in a husband or partner was someone who didn't hit them.

 

I remember being stunned that this was a factor in enough relationships (first hand or observed) that it topped the list.

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I know it's not the same person, but everytime I see this guy, I am reminded of one particular swimmer.  He swam in the lane I was timing a couple times at the same meet.  Each time he came out of the water and asked his time - then he would swear loudly and pound his fist in anger.  The second time he did it I reported him to the head official.  

 

This was a swimmer from one of the top clubs in the area - one that had a reputation for prepping people for international level competition and college swim team positions.  It also had some incredibly arrogant swimmers who were frequently not kind or respectful to people working the deck.  It made me wonder if the convicted rapist swimmer came out of a similar team, where times counted more than character.

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Can't believe I made it through all 14 pages of this thread--just wanted to share a couple of thoughts that haven't been touched on as best as I can remember.

 

People use the terms "sexual assault" and "rape" interchangeably and it drives me crazy.  Both, of course, are wrong, but there's just no comparing me getting my butt pinched getting on the bus for a field trip in 8th grade to the bodily invasion that happens in rape.  All forms of sexual assault are unacceptable, but the amount of trauma perpetrated on the victim varies too much for a single term to adequately characterize it imo.

 

This article, "The Alcohol Blackout"  appeared earlier this year in Texas Monthly and tackles many of the issues discussed on this thread.  The author, Sarah Hepola, is an alcoholic who went to the University of Texas at Austin to do a report on campus drinking-to-blackout culture and sexual assault.  Very interesting read by a good writer--I'd like to read her book one day.

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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/09/student-who-chased-down-stanford-rapist-describes-shocking-and-disturbing-attack.html

 

 

One of the guys who detained him does an interview, he won't answer a lot of things but one telling thing is that he says that he doesn't think that Brock was drunk- "He was able to run and not slurring at all."

 

I would think they would have tested him for alcohol. That's a very definitive test. It wouldn't have entered into the trial if he hadn't been legally drunk. 

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I would think they would have tested him for alcohol. That's a very definitive test. It wouldn't have entered into the trial if he hadn't been legally drunk. 

 

Is that a routine test?  I know it is for driving offenses, but for other crimes (robbery, mugging, rape, etc.) is a routine breath or blood test normal?  It seems like it would be very expensive to test blood alcohol for every crime, but I've never really thought about it.

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It has been a while, but I remember a survey report years back that said the top thing women said they wanted in a husband or partner was someone who didn't hit them.

 

I remember being stunned that this was a factor in enough relationships (first hand or observed) that it topped the list.

 

 

That is shocking.  When I was still married to my first husband I was trying so hard to make things work.  I read a book about identifying your needs in a partner.....so I made a list.  I called it my top ten list.  But I was already married and it seemed pointless to dwell on what I wasn't going to get out of that husband.  So I tucked it away.  When I got divorced I thought ok THIS time I am going to be more mindful of this process....so I pulled my top ten list out.  There were crazy things on there that no one should have to 'ask' for.  Don't curse at me.  I can't remember what all.  So I rewrote my list from a sane point of view and then I found my dh who btw got a 10/10.

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Is that a routine test?  I know it is for driving offenses, but for other crimes (robbery, mugging, rape, etc.) is a routine breath or blood test normal?  It seems like it would be very expensive to test blood alcohol for every crime, but I've never really thought about it.

 

No, it isn't routine, but the police can certainly have one done if they believe that alcohol was a factor in the commission of a crime. Their use isn't limited to driving offenses. 

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I would think they would have tested him for alcohol. That's a very definitive test. It wouldn't have entered into the trial if he hadn't been legally drunk.

The police wouldn't have any reason to test for alcohol. He wasn't driving. He (or lawyer) could've done it on his own to prove that he was to mitigate his crime, but there isn't any obligation on the police's part to provide him defenses. Legally, the police would need a reason to do so, and he would have to consent or they'd need a court order compelling his blood. Even breathalyzer testing after suspected DUI requires consent (in my state--refusal comes with a big "stick" of automatic suspension of license).

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I would think they would have tested him for alcohol. That's a very definitive test. It wouldn't have entered into the trial if he hadn't been legally drunk.

But different people tolerate alcohol levels differently.

 

And how far over the legally drunk minimum matters too.

 

Someone could be legally drunk and still be very mentally aware of their actions.

 

Not that I think being drunk is an excuse anyways. I'm just saying "legally drunk" does not always mean what tv portrays it as.

 

That someone who thwarted the attack noticed things like the man was not as out of it drunk as he claimed bc he was not slurring or staggering or having any problem understanding why he was in being held down and needed to get away doesn't mean he wasn't also *legally* drunk.

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I think the point is, the rapist said he was so drunk he was just about out of it, as a defense.  The rescuer said, nope, he had his wits about him enough to run away and fight back when confronted.  Whether or not he was drunk, legally drunk, whatever doesn't matter.  Rape is equally illegal no matter how sober or drunk he was.

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I think the point is, the rapist said he was so drunk he was just about out of it, as a defense.  The rescuer said, nope, he had his wits about him enough to run away and fight back when confronted.  Whether or not he was drunk, legally drunk, whatever doesn't matter.  Rape is equally illegal no matter how sober or drunk he was.

 

 

Exactly.  Either way he is guilty.

 

It matters though because it speaks to his attempt to avoid the responsibility for what he did. And until he REALLY takes responsibility for the crime he committed he cannot be trusted in the future to not do it again.   

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I hope the furor over this lasts a long time. From that perspective, the judge may actually have done us all a favor with his light sentencing--it has sparked much more outrage and discussion than would have happened had the sentence fit the crime. 

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I would like to,say that I read the dads letter....and the comment about 20 minutes of action did not translate to me as crass as it has been painted all over the net. I read it as 'his actions during a 20 minute time frame' not as 'some action'.

 

I was still not very sympathetic for,the rapist...but I think the dad has been misrepresented.

Edited by Scarlett
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I would like to,say that I read the dads letter....and the comment about 20 minutes of action did. To translate to me as crass as it has been painted all over the net. I read it as 'his actions during a 20 minute time frame' not as 'some action'.

 

I was still not very sympathetic for,the rapist...but I think the dad has been misrepresented.

 

I do think that's what he meant by "action" (not "getting some action" but "consequences of his actions"), but still the rest of the statement is so misguided that I didn't want to stick up for him.

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I do think that's what he meant by "action" (not "getting some action" but "consequences of his actions"), but still the rest of the statement is so misguided that I didn't want to stick up for him.

I agree. The whole time I was reading it I was like boo hoo. I dont know what a dad should say in that circumstance where he is begging for mercy......probably he should have told his son to admit blame and take his punishment.

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I never understand why anyone talks to the press at all. For the love of, just shut up. Even if what they say is positive and they articulate it well, it's going to be shredded by the media. There's just no point to it. I don't get it. But it's taken me 40 years to develop a tolerance for having my picture taken in family photos, so media statements and interviews is just not something I think I'd ever be inclined to do anyways.

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I agree. The whole time I was reading it I was like boo hoo. I dont know what a dad should say in that circumstance where he is begging for mercy......probably he should have told his son to admit blame and take his punishment.

 

Yeah, I can't see my dad making an excuse unless it was documentable mental illness (to the point he didn't know right/wrong) or he truly believed his son did not do that thing.  It would be so hard either way.  The discussion of how the son's life was now going to be less easy and happy would not have been part of the statement in any scenario.  If anything, my dad would probably have apologized to the other family and wished he could do something to make it better for them.

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I never understand why anyone talks to the press at all. For the love of, just shut up. Even if what they say is positive and they articulate it well, it's going to be shredded by the media. There's just no point to it. I don't get it. But it's taken me 40 years to develop a tolerance for having my picture taken in family photos, so media statements and interviews is just not something I think I'd ever be inclined to do anyways.

 

If you're talking about he dad's statement, I thought it was a statement to the judge to affect the sentencing - not to the press after the fact.  I could be wrong about that.

 

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If you're talking about he dad's statement, I thought it was a statement to the judge to affect the sentencing - not to the press after the fact. I could be wrong about that.

 

I'm not talking about just the sentencing statements.

 

Just in general... FB, news outlets, etc...

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"20 minutes of action", whether seen sexually or not, complete removes the crime victim from the scenario.  It's a pretty reprehensible turn of phrase.

 

I have a twinge of empathy. This  is a dad trying to persuade a judge to give his son a light sentence , when he was looking at perhaps 14 years.  That doesn't mean its' how the dad talked to his son after the incident,  or would represent himself in the press given the choice.

 

But the fact that it WORKED is very telling, and upsetting.

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I would like to,say that I read the dads letter....and the comment about 20 minutes of action did. To translate to me as crass as it has been painted all over the net. I read it as 'his actions during a 20 minute time frame' not as 'some action'.

 

I was still not very sympathetic for,the rapist...but I think the dad has been misrepresented.

 

 

While it can certainly be argued that the dad was probably meaning 20 minutes of time in that sense, the fact that a man defending a brutal act of violence so coldly in a time frame is disgusting and says something to his character .       20 mins of action is an odd phrase to use when defending your child's attack of another  human.  Would 30 minutes have been acceptable? An hour?  How long of a time period of action does a human have to achieve to become unacceptable?

 

 Action is commonly referred to by guys when discussing sex.    "I got some action last night"    is usually interrupted to mean I had sex.     I read his letter and thanks to you read it again and it still comes off as a demeaning way to express his son was having sex.  I don't think the Dad has been misrepresented at all.  As a man, he most likely would have known that phrase would be construed as 20 minutes of sex and he included it anyway most likely with attorney's approval.   It was meant to be degrading and lesson his son's violent attack to a night of getting some. it was designed to appeal to the judge that his son was having sex in his eyes, the girl was being raped in her eyes.    Play on words to elicit a certain emotional response.  Which worked.

 

And I'll leave it at that......

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I don't think it matters which way it was taken. It's still a wrong way to think. Pulling a trigger is one second of action. Getting into a car drunk and driving for 5 minutes and crashing. If you did those things and pleaded for probation and not jailtime because it was only 1 second or 5 minutes, that sounds ridiculous. What about 60 year olds that have a 2-minute lapse in judgement and commit a violent crime should be averaged out based on how many years of life he's been a good citizen?

 

“That is a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action out of his 20 plus years of life.â€

I agree it doesn't matter that it was only 20 minutes of his life. He should still pay for his crime. But my image of the dad was waaaaay different when I thought he was referring to the rape as 'getting some action'.

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While it can certainly be argued that the dad was probably meaning 20 minutes of time in that sense, the fact that a man defending a brutal act of violence so coldly in a time frame is disgusting and says something to his character . 20 mins of action is an odd phrase to use when defending your child's attack of another human. Would 30 minutes have been acceptable? An hour? How long of a time period of action does a human have to achieve to become unacceptable?

 

Action is commonly referred to by guys when discussing sex. "I got some action last night" is usually interrupted to mean I had sex. I read his letter and thanks to you read it again and it still comes off as a demeaning way to express his son was having sex. I don't think the Dad has been misrepresented at all. As a man, he most likely would have known that phrase would be construed as 20 minutes of sex and he included it anyway most likely with attorney's approval. It was meant to be degrading and lesson his son's violent attack to a night of getting some. it was designed to appeal to the judge that his son was having sex in his eyes, the girl was being raped in her eyes. Play on words to elicit a certain emotional response. Which worked.

 

And I'll leave it at that......

Not defending the dads character.....but I think the word choice was more about lack of vocabulary than intent to further demean the victim.

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